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SD and Christmas issues

Cassilynn1728's picture

I'm new to the page. My SD is now 19 and lives with her boyfriend. It's a long story that most of you probably know personally. We gained custody from her mother when she was 7. Mom all but disappears. We have a happy life until about 13-14. Mom comes back to have "fun" with teenage daughter. By 16 she hates us because her mom has told her the truth how we lie...blah blah. Right before 18 we give in and say live with mom if you want since she hates us. For awhile she kept in somewhat contact. Then suddenly talking to us gives her panic attacks and we ruined her life and she should have been with her mom. Parent alienation at its best. We tell her we are sorry we hurt her, we will pay for family therapy with her, bio mom, boyfriend or whatever she wants. Hell no. We are too awful.I spent 2000 last Christmas to give her almost everything she wanted for her new home but we don't support her getting her own place. In the end she won't talk to us or her siblings anymore. We write her a couple times a week to attempt contact and let her know we still love her and are here if she needs anything. Now that the back story is filled in, my question is about the upcoming holiday. I am not spending anywhere close to what I did last year. But because we barely know this rebelling teen and her boyfriend I am lost as to what to get them. I don't know what they are into. I don't know what she likes anymore. I don't know what she needs. I plan to supplement with few gift cards but grandparents want actual gifts (I shop for them for my kids gifts) and I would like a couple thoughtful gifts as well. Does anyone have any idea what to get in this situation? Any ideas are welcome because I am lost. It's already hard enough we lost her and have to hear these things. I want to be sure she knows we still love her regardless how she feels. Any advice is helpful. Thank you all.

oneoffour's picture

A donation to a charity. Look up Heifer International and tell her you bought a herd of goats for a village so they can become self sufficient. When she complains or pouts because she didn't get anything material ask her how many times has she picked up the phone and called her Dad in the past year? There is only so many times you can extend your hand and get bitten every time until you stop extending the hand. You can also tell her that you have no idea what her tastes or preferences are as you never hear from her.

She is 19 not 9. She is playing the "Poor little me" game. She is trying to milk you all she can without any attempt to do anything in return. Actually giving this girl $2K worth of gifts last year with the outcome you received should make this perfectly clear to you. She doesn't want to be part of your life. So the door is shut, just not locked. She is welcome to come back when she knocks at your door. Does this work? Yes it does. It worked with my own daughter and my step son. I felt terrible for some time. But when we no longer were so available or our wallet wasn;t open they realised pretty damned fast the gravy train was gone.

twopines's picture

Since you're determined to give her a gift, and she has her own home, a thoughtful gift would be a book on DIY Repairs and a starter tool kit. Even rebellious 19 year olds eventually need to fix something themselves when they can't afford a repair person.

Cassilynn1728's picture

Apparently my husband thinks that I was too harsh on what I said and I told him I would clear it up. Grrr I assume some of you as step parents get this crap from the bio. Anyway, I will make clear that she is not using us for money and never asks for anything. We are not supporting her in any way except when I buy gifts. For her bf bday I mailed a gift card and same for her birthday.He wants to be clear he is "not chasing her" . Apparently what I wrote makes her look bad because I didn't mention this. Now go on and take this total new information that changes everything and advise with this in mind. It would be appreciated.

Exjuliemccoy's picture

Sorry, but you are chasing her, and rewarding bad behavior.

So she's at a difficult age. Kids are DUMB at 19, drunk with the power of being an adult and devoid of common sense. What is your husband teaching her by accepting mistreatment? Would he tolerate such treatment from anyone else? Not likely.

It is possible to lovingly detach from someone who is toxic, and it starts with boundaries. Take money out of the equation; your SD is an adult now and I doubt your DH is in the habit of giving gifts to any of the other asshats in his life. He should tell her that he loves her, acknowledges that she's an adult now, respects her choices, and that the door will always be open for her. This can be done in an email, phone convo, or face-to-face (no texting). And then, LET HER GO, with all the love in the world. A card on holidays and birthdays is sufficient. She deserves the chance to sort things out for herself, and your only hope of evolving the existing abusive relationship into one of mutual respect is to step back.

notsobad's picture

It sounds to me like you are trying to buy her back. That if you can just find that perfect gift, she'll suddenly remember that she loves you and her Dad and will let you back into her life.

You've already told her that you are sorry that she feels you've hurt her. You've offered to pay for therapy and you've helped her set up her house.

Send her a card. Tell her again that you love her and if she ever would like to talk you are there for her. Then let her go, she'll either grow up and come back to you or she won't.

Cassilynn1728's picture

I was trying to buy and show my support in a volatile situation last year without a doubt. At this point though it's not about that. I have 4 other children and I like fairness for all of my kids. My SD didn't live with us until 7 but we had her nonstop from 2 on because mom missed her party days. I truly love her. I'm angry but want to be the bigger person and an example to my children. This is their sister and it is a tough place. How much is too much? How far is it before I am "buying" her? I don't want to. I want her to come to Christmas and it not be super uncomfortable because I wasn't fair to her vs my other kids. I want a good and happy environment for my kids. I'm not sure if she will come to Christmas but it is my holiday and I want it to be at minimum, comfortable. We don't want to be used and give too much. But we also want to be the bigger person.

notsobad's picture

Maybe buy her back was the wrong term.
I do still feel that you are looking for something to bring her back to you. There isn't anything wrong with that but you have to realize that a gift or gifts aren't going to do that. Attempting to be fair isn't going to do it either.

I'm not sure what you do to get through to her. She will have to come to the realization that you and her Dad are not the enemy. Any gift is going to look like a bribe to her.

You won't be teaching your kids to take the high road or be the bigger person. You'll be teaching them that the noisy wheel gets the grease.

What would you do if this was your bio child who was angry and had disengaged with you, for whatever reason?

I know that I'd be sitting down with them and getting to the bottom of the problem. There would be harsh words, they'd be told truths that they probably don't want to hear and there would be tears but in the end they would know that I love them.
If after that they chose to not talk to me or have me in their life I'd tell them that the door was always open but that I wasn't going to chase them. They would have to come to me. There would be cards for all occasions but no gifts.

SMBM2017's picture

I would buy her something you think would open her heart. Teenagers like to play the victim game. But they also like to be loved. Buy her something small that only you and her would understand why it is special. You don't have to spend much.

Or a daily verse book, a unique journal, tickets for something you all must do together, or something she couldn't possibly use without feeling loved or thinking of you and your husband.

Please don't give up on her. No matter how hurtful she gets. Sometimes teenagers push you away because they are insecure and need to know who will "fight" for them. You're doing perfect by writing to her. Don't give up. I promise it will pay off.

enuf's picture

All the posters have said very insightful things. But if you really want to get her a gift, a great gift would be luxury sheets. Who doesn't like those soft, high thread count, silky sheets that cost a fortune, would love to have, but can bring oneself to buy. Your sd will think of you guys every time she climbs into bed.

Aeron's picture

It is a rough position. And fairness doesn't come in to at this point. Either she's making excuses to push you away because she's doing things she knows you won't approve of and doesn't want to have to hide it or defend herself. Or... She has bought in to the alienation kool-aid so hard that trying so hard at this point will hurt your chances of he coming around. Or she knows exactly what she's doing because her mom has taught her how to get without having to give.

She's told you you've ruined her life. You're too awful to call, to visit, to go to therapy with... but you're good enough to accept 2 k worth of gifts from? I'm sorry - but if I honestly believed someone had ruined my life, I would not want s gift from them. Her willingness to accept gifts, to me, she's saying you ruined her life to make you feel guilty.

It is not reasonable, or fair to your other kids btw, to try to do the same gifting to her - who has repeatedly made clear she does not want a relationship. Buy her a card. Get her and the be a joint gift - gift card to a restaurant or something, mail it and let it go. Be honest with the grandparents - she is choosing to not have a relationship with your family at this time. Then tell them to get her a gift on their own as they see fit.

I also agree that you are chasing her. Several attempts at communications a week, words of we're here for whatever you need, gifts without a relationship or her understanding while you accept blame for whatever her mom has told her? Have you told her the truth, showed her the court documents behind why you were granted custody? Have you informed her that her mother is lying and showed evidence? Based on the addendum your husband wanted to add because he doesn't want his daughter to look bad, I'm thinking not and with the reasoning of not wanting to speak ill of her mother.... However. She's an adult now and the only way to combat the nonsense is with the truth. And that may not work either. Some kids, some people are devoted to an idea about what their parents are they will deliberately ignore or disbelieve anything that does not fit that picture. Her need to feel that her mother always loved her may require her to believe that you and her father truly are awful, evil people and there will be nothing you can do to change that.

It's awful and it's so very painful, particularly at holidays but it is not going to be fixed by fairness. If anyone else in your life said the things to you she has, told you you're too awful to even think about repairing the relationship with, would you continue to try to buy them things? Giving her gifts at this point is telling her it's okay to treat you this way. Beyond that, there is a good chance it is also telling her that you are to blame, she's right to blame you and you will continue to try to make amends to her for the wrong you've done her.

Cassilynn1728's picture

Thank you everyone for the advice. I will have to mull over all of it. I have to say if I were in charge of the situation things would be very different. But my husband is not taking this well. She hated me for years now. I'm a sarcastic person and I speak my mind when my opinion is asked. She hates it and says it's mean. So I stopped with her but her mom had already planted I did it for meanness and it was so long it stuck. My kids get me and love my sarcasm and blunt sensibility. But anyway, this was not a bombshell to me. I knew she hated me and I made her life hell. But her telling my husband that he was awful was a kick in the balls. He is probably the most patient and understanding man on earth. With her she always came before me. He was worried about this happening for years since bio mom hates us. At this point he is hurt and lost. I'll admit, it still hurts no matter what. But I've moved to acceptance. We have in fact tried to tell her the truth. We have offered to show her proff of the court case and everything. She says we are just liars and she knows it. She has told us she's going to pass her revelation to our other kids because without another parent they don't know how bad we are. I moved into protective mode. I have talked to my kids and asked what we do incorrectly and if any of her thoughts are real to them. They don't see it. But we are trying to improve anyway. We have made mistakes with SD. We told her that. She was the oldest. Therefor a guinea pig. Plus the element of bio mom telling her to lie to us and she wouldn't talk to us about anything in her life made her untrustworthy in the end. We may have made mistakes. And we are sorry for that. As an oldest child myself I know the pressure of it. I also have a unique insight as I wrote off my father when I was 18. Now, it wasn't because he was a big meanie. My father was a pedophile. At 18 we found out he had been dating a girl 2 years older than me for 6 years. A girl he was helping because he was the church youth minister. He was also a sociopath. He had a house for this girl and lead a double life for 6 years. Now I still didn't totally write him off. He was Dad. But then he started telling me I was a bitch like my mom when I said he hurt us. I would only have email contact after that. Then he called and made my brother cry and wrote my mom how evil she was. That was it for me. I went to his office, slapped him across the face, and told him to stay away from my family. I saw him a few months later at a funeral for my grandmother. After that we didn't speak for 14 years. I had to adjust and truly let go. He got in contact and send me a birthday card a couple years ago with some money and I sent a thank you card. After that we email now and then. But I made it clear a relationship as a whole would not happen and my kids would never have contact with him. He still claims he has reasons for what he did but has apologized he hurt me. Seeing that he is sick in the head, I deal with that as long as he respects my boundaries. Anyway, I have cut off a parent. I know it doesn't come with gifts and being chased and written to. And when I made that choice I knew it. And was accepting of it. I personally would send a gift card for dinner in the mail. My husband insists that we keep trying to reach out. That I'm cruel if we don't. That she be here for Christmas at least for the kids' sake. This girl got a car from my mother then $1000 for graduation. After she got the car 3 years ago she saw my mom 3 times in the past 3 years. My mother was very hurt. Her mom is a user and narcissistic. She borrow money off of SD and makes her feel guilty when she doesn't have money for something she wants. The last time I spoke w/ SD she had just given her mom money and was trying to help more because she felt so guilty Bio Mom had been looking forward to a disney vacation but now didn't have enough. She deserves to go according to SD. I asked if Bio Mom was taking her and she said she wasn't sure. She had mentioned it but SD would have to pay her own way for her and bf. I seriously did not get it. In my eyes we are what SD is to Bio Mom in SD eyes. I don't like it. But my husband keeps saying how wrong I am. She really doesn't try to be mean. She just doesn't know what she is doing. So I'm always confused with my feelings. I don't let my family be hurt. I cut out cancerous people in my life. My husband tells me that it is a fault. Now I don't know. Just so whomever asked knows, I am being seen by a therapist at this point. This past year I dealt with this, a car crash that put me down for a year and starting homeschooling with 3 of my 4 other kids. I felt like a nutcase as I already deal with depression. So I have therapy but that just began and as you know this little bit of my life trust me when I say this is simply the icing on the cake. So we have to get through my early life before we get here apparently. Thank you all

Cassilynn1728's picture

What would you do in regards to inviting her to holidays? He is insistent she be invited. I told him he can but not for my Christmas morning. I want a relaxed and happy morning for the kids with no elephant in the room. I told him maybe that afternoon if she wants for lunch. I honestly don't feel like ruining Christmas for us for even that, but I try to give him what he needs. I'm pretty much what you would call a highly sensitive person and when people around me feel a certain way it changes how I feel. Living with her was so hard while she hated me. When she comes over I smile and am nice but it ruins my entire day or two. I get the feeling of rejection and sadness from knowing I lost what was an awesome family dynamic. My husband is coming around a little. I think he believed her in the beginning. But I just got Windows 10 and my pictures scroll across the computer in the living room 24/7. He sits and watches them and has told me that her smiles when she was not an older teen were not fake. She was happy. He doesn't understand. Anyway, do I put my foot down or have her come over?

breakingthroughtheinstincts's picture

Cassilynn, you sound like you are dealing with a LOT at the moment. You are going to burn out if you keep going at this rate.

YOU are the most important person right now, from experience you need to deal with your depression and you need support from your DH with that. You have tried again and again with SD (who is being emotionally blackmailed by her BM and it will probably be a few years before she wakes up and sees her Mum for what she really is). Tell DH he is welcome to do whatever he wants for her from now on, but you refuse to reward her alienation/cruelty and will only be sending her a gift card. If he doesn't think that is sufficient it is in his hands to do something else (and we all know how great guys are at sending cards/presents!).

Look after yourself, deal thoroughly with your needs and worries; your relationship with your father needs to be carefully explored in therapy. Forget about SD, concentrate on the children who still love you, and other loving and positive influences on your life.

enuf's picture

The best gift you can give a child is to let them learn important lessons in life. Your sd sounds entitled and cruel. You as parents, as hard as it may be, need to be the first ones to teach her that her behavior a appalling. She is still young and she will heal. But you cannot in good conscience encourage and reward behavior that is ungrateful and cruel. Taking a stand to teach your sd that she has choices and there are consequences is the best parenting, but it takes inner strength and sometimes it hurts us to do so. But that is what a good parent does!

SM12's picture

I have been exactly in your shoes. Raised a SD from age 10 until 17 when BM came back into the picture after 5 years of zero contact.
BM promised the moon stars and everything in between. SD got angry at DH (now XDH) and myself for expecting good grades and the rules to be followed.
SD was a handful...would sneak, lie, run around with boys, have sex...etc. We had to keep a close eye on her at all times.
She decided BM was better for her and ran away to live with her at 17. SD came running back shortly after graduating HS when she realized that BM
had fed her a line of crap. SD spend a lot of time making up for the damage. Again no contact with BM for years.
SD has a baby, two years later BM comes back again into the picture. SD admits she only allowed it because BM was paying off some of her bills.
SD ends up moving out of state near BM and totally cuts me out of her life. She apparently was not allowed to be in my life in order
for BM to pay her bills. I was Grandma to her son, raised SD to be a good responsible, hard working person....and I have been shunned.
My GS was ripped from my life and I haven't seen him in two years. SD just stopped responding to my texts and calls. For a while I send gifts at the holidays
and cards hoping for contact. After two years, that has stopped. I will not chase her. She is an adult and making adult decisions and has to live with the consequences.
I hate if for GS but I can't be held hostage for a relationship.

Sometimes it is better to walk away and let them determine when and if they come back. Sounds like your SD has been PAS'd as mine was. I went from being her "mom" (her words) to being a stranger so she can get her bills paid. I don't need or want toxic people in my life so I let her go. No more cards, gifts or attempts at contact.

It is hard but you have to decide when enough is enough.

Aeron's picture

Wow, yea, that changes things a bit. You need to disengage. Tell your DH you understand he loves her and he would like things to be different and he needs to deal with gifts, cards etc. Make a budget together around what you're both okay with spending and then it becomes his deal. If he wants to buy gifts for her from grandparents, he needs to be the one to contact them about that too.

I would offer your husband an option of Christmas Eve dinner or Boxing Day brunch. And remember, SD will most likely decline the meal option. If she starts trying to trash talk either of you to your kids, then it's time to ask her to leave. See if you can get your husband into therapy. Keep protecting your kids. Let him deal with his daughter. Until she's ready to repair her relationship with him, you need to stay on the sidelines. When they've become more stable, you and the other kids can be brought in. But that's going to take some serious time once she's ready, if she's ready.

Cassilynn1728's picture

Thank you all for all your thoughtful words and advice. It's really nice to know I'm not alone and that I'm not the evil person my husband claims I am when I want to throw in the towel. Now I at bare minimum know that I'm not crazy and it will help things move along.

Aeron's picture

Cassi, I'm actually so bothered I had to say something else.

I am so angry at your husband for you right now. You're cruel if you don't reach out to this girl? Removing toxic people from your life is a fault?!

Cruel is him expecting you to put up with abusive treatment. From ANYONE. A fault is not protecting those you love from abuse and mistreatment. And what this girl has said to you and about you is certainly not treatment I would allow from anyone in my family towards my spouse. Threatening to turn your children against you is abusive. Trying to turn your children against you is abusive to both and them.

Cruel is him disparaging you in any way for trying to protect yourself and your children from this hateful girl's vitriol and actually expecting you to buy her bloody gifts on top of it?! Where is this man's head!? Him trying to make this Your fault in any way is hateful, deluded and Wrong in all senses of the word! He is the one that slept with a horrible person. He is the one had created this now adult child. She was his responsibility then and his to deal with now. His ex dripping evil whispers in her ear is not your fault. Her believing the poison is not your fault. Him choosing to nanny pamby, try to chase her garbage needs to be on him. You protecting yourself and your kids is the only rational thing to do in this situation.

Cassilynn1728's picture

I realize that I'm coming across as some "yes dear" wife. Trust me when I say everything you just said has been voiced to my husband many a time over many years only in a voice that the whole neighborhood can hear. I'm vicious at times and screaming is my MO. He has heard it all. I put up with it at this point to keep the peace while he is going through this hit she sent his way. My husband is a great man but lacks empathy at times. You could say there was a point where he and the ex were perfect for each other. Because I know I have many faults he overlooks I overlook things like this when it is necessary. I can bring it up when he has his head on straight. It won't be the first time and it certainly won't be the last.