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Disengaged at Dinnertime

CLove's picture

Ive been managing my disengagement and gradually over time have made vast leaps of improvement. What do to about this and that. I think Ive got it. Back way off, dont think about it, dont ask about it, dont mention it. Dont worry about it. Not your kid, not your flying monkees.

One thing is tripping me up right now. Open to suggestions and maybe just venting.

Dinner time. I enjoy cooking. Disengagement has caused me to stop majority of cooking and grocery buying when SD15.5 is at our house for our week. DH ends up doing a lot of takeout and he does the cooking. A pattern is emerging that I simply am having a tough time with. Kind of the last bastion on the way to full disengagment.

Sd15.5 mainly just stays in her room the entire time that she is with us. She will come out for bathroom breaks and when she is hungry.

The times that we cook dinner rather than take out, DH will alert her to "dinners ready", and it is always optional to attend. Then around 9-10 pm she will come out and poke around the kitchen and refrigerator looking for food. Sometimes I leave it out, but lately, Ive been putting it away and sometimes hide the leftovers. In my mind, I work for the $ to buy, I shop for it, prep it, cook it. If you dont want to eat because not hungry, ok fine I dont care. If you opt out, fine. But dont come back at 9-10 looking for it. Kitchen is closed and I am not the short order cook. 

Things were a little strained last night. I was tired, but I went shopping, prepped and cooked a nice dinner - fresh caught trout with butter olive oil and capers, steamed rice and steamed cauliflower. Princess came out over an hour later, and "oh Clove put things away" what is she going to do - starve? Poor thing. And DH asked if I had smashed everything toghether in a container, and was walking in circles trying to find the leftovers to put something together for Starving Princess. Yikes. But am I being too harsh? Should I put a plate in there waiting for her (sometimes I do and sometimes she pulls it out and eats it and sometimes it gets wasted). Should we insist on dinners together at the dinner table? Disengagement sais "no, dont worry about it let DH worry about it". 

Im just seriously considering not cooking anything this week.

Noway2b1's picture

With my own kid. Including putting mine or DH name on things WE particularly like. My son is free to forage and welcome to most things, but we better not see any signs of you eating after meals are cleaned up. Not even a spoon or crumbs, that was both DH and my hard and fast rule from when we got married and my son was 16. Oh and guess what, dear son gets to clean the toaster oven weekly too, since he uses it the most. He is also welcome to join us but mealtimes are pretty loose around here, I like to eat early and DH and bio son are much later eaters, if I do cook I let them know what I'm making and when it'll be ready because I hate working around someone making a sandwich when I'm cooking. Eating what I made is optional but if you don't you are responsible for cleaning up after yourself as well. 

CLove's picture

So, "fine your not hungry, you opt out, but kitchen is closed after cleaning and put away". 

She scrounges left overs and typically we have them because when shes there I always make extra. So, rarely does she HAVE to make her own thing. She wont. She will say "Im starving", and that puts the pressure on us to make her something. But she wont. She will go hungry instead. And there is always rice in the rice cooker and she will eat that.

So, good, this isnt a mean thing Im doing. Shes not deprived.

Noway2b1's picture

Meaning, leftovers aren't appealing, I get it, I'm not huge into leftovers, we always have easy stuff for him to heat up, hot pockets, burritos, ramen. There's never nothing, but 15-16 is certainly old enough to scrounge around for themselves. I do get it with my son though because he and his siblings grew up with me being a stay at home mom cooking meals every night and sit down dinners, that all changed when he was 12 and the divorce happened. I took a lonnnnng sabbatical from cooking hearty sit down meals and now cook what I want or if I'm asked for a particular meal. We have dinner all Together a few times a month still, but he's 19 now. 

CLove's picture

Thats exactly what she does. And I used to buy for Sd15.5, special stuff for her to heat up in the microwave. But disengagment happened. I dont say much anymore. She needs to learn how to cook her own food vs relying on scavenging for scraps. We dont have a lot of that microwave food boxes.

I miss family dinners. But I have resigned myself to not doing them anymore.

Someoneelse's picture

I get it, I miss my family dinners too, but SD literally ruined them, she apparently has "disphonia" or whatever, meansing she doesn't like the sound of chewing/crunching... so she would throw a fit and sit in another room while we "enjoyed" our meal.... which was not ver enjoyable after her asking everyone at the table to chew softer.... (nobody eats with their mouth open, it's literally the chewing even with everyone's mouth shut that was "disgusting") then everyone started getting jobs/doing after school activities... and there was just me and DH, and I am left cooking meals, and shoving the left overs in the fridge for those who were out working/at school activities.... so other than me and DH (who has taken to working late in the garage) eating fresh meals, but not together.... so my once EXCITEMENT for introducing dishes that I worked hard on planning and prepping, has now resulted in lonely meals.... not very fun right now

Rags's picture

the chew sensitive Skid. She can eat alone in her room.  Misophonia is not commonly recognized as a legitimate "medical" condition. Though certainly there may be some who are legitimately suffering from Misophonia, the % of the population that experiences this aversion consistently is not materially significant.

If I were you, I would call bullshit on it and just exclude the manipulative Skid from family meals, restaurant trips, picnics, food related family reunions, etc.  At some point the common experience of the family trumps the dificult individual, even when that individial may have a legitimate issue.

Take me for example, I am a long term T-1 diabetic. I do not eat carbs (sugar in any form, rice, corn, potatoes, wheat products).  I do not demand that those I am socializing with eat what I eat.I focus on the time   Not an exact corelation, though the point is that I do not interfere with the event due to my sensitivities.

Livingoutloud's picture

If she wants to eat leftovers later, she could find them and reheat. No big deal. Since she does it after the kitchen closed, she must clean up after herself. Disengagement doesn't mean living in a filthy kitchen.

If dad wants to find and reheat the food himself it's no big deal either, he just must clean up after. As long as the kitchen is clean and food put away I don't care if people eat leftovers later. No I'd not be making plates for her. She isn't 5. 

Bottom line who cares if she or dad want to eat late or what they want to eat and how and if, as long as they clean up after themselves and if SD doesn't clean then dad must do so. 
 

grocery shopping and making  elaborate meals after work day is a bit too much for me but if you like doing it, keep doing it. If it irritates you that she wouldnt eat with you, make meal for one or two people and let dad worry about her. In general just do whatever works 

 

JRI's picture

I think this topic is emotionally loaded for you because it's food.  In my own original family, family dinners were sacred times, absolutely no deviation from table attendance.  We also had mandatory overfeeding but that's another topic.

I had some trouble with my SKs' eating habits, too, mostly in the area of pickiness.   At the time, I was going to Weight Watchers where I was working on seeing food as fuel, rather than as emotional comfort.  I still work to combat that "clean up your plate" message in my brain.

I'd take Noway2b1's suggestions and also try to emotionally detach from the food issue.  It's hard because we want to nourish our loved ones, it's how we show love.  

CLove's picture

Should be my rapper name.

Yeah. Thats it for me, I put love and consideration. But, not going to do that anymore, if dinner is done its wrapped.

Livingoutloud's picture

I agree. That makes sense. In my family food is a big deal (culturally) it's kind of holding family together and I like entertaining BUT I only do it if it brings me pleasure. The minute it stresses me out, I stop. I am not going to live in stress over feeding people who aren't starving. Too many people actually starve and that's real stress. Who eats what and when is not that big of a deal in comparison. 

now my OSD all of a sudden eats gluten free dairy free some kind of other "free" stuff and supposedly can't tolerate normal food. And SGD all of a sudden has nut allergy. It's always "all of a sudden" ailments intolerances allergies. Few months later it's something else. Not letting it stress us out. Gluten free cauliflower frozen pizza. Sorbet ice cream. Problem solved 

Rags's picture

Don't cook for her. She engages with the family at meal time, or she fends for herself. Since she does not engage, she does not get a serving. PERIOD!

KISS - Keep it Stupid Simple.

Store the leftovers as you would any other left overs or ... give the dog a treat. The dog or cat are more family than she is currently. Treat her accordingly. 

If we had pulled this shit growing up, it would have been a very hungry day.  There would not have been any food until the next evening meal. None of us would have pulled the moody teen bullshit more than once.

Military School is also a good mitigation for this. By the times of 1st, 2nd, & 3rd Mess. Cadets are so worn out and hungry that they eat with gusto. There are no missed meals. Miss the Mess formation and not only do you not eat, you spend your weekends marching in a big square carrying a M1A1 9Lb rifle wearing a 30Lb pack while irritating Cadet Officers harrass the crap out of you. Only the stupid ones ever do it twice.

Dogmom1321's picture

DH also announces to SD11 that dinner is ready. If she doesn't come down, I pack up the leftovers. She wouldn't eat them anyway. If SD11 is hungry after we have already eaten, he tells her to go help heself in the kitchen. She was given the opportunity to eat and passed it up. Oh well. 

IF SD11 ventures down for dinner, I try my best to not be at the table yet. I will be fixing dinner for our almost 1 year old, or packing lunches, or cleaning up, etc. I found it easier to disengage and ignore her ridiculous comments if I'm not sitting right there. Also makes it less awkward for me to just sit in silence at the table. 

It took YEARS for DH to get to this point though. When SD was younger we would all eat whatever SD felt like. She ruled to roost if we were ordering pizza or making hamburgers. Now DH just tells her to try foods, but she doesn't have to eat it if she doesn't want to. We aren't fixing her separate things anymore.  

ESMOD's picture

For younger kids.. maybe 12 and under.. dinner when it has been prepared would not really be an option.  I would expect the kids to be at the table to eat the meal prepared for them. At that age, I wouldn't be trusting them to make their own informed food choices.  Not hungry?  That's fine..  have a small portion vs big one.. or nothing if you truly aren't hungry.. but food is CLOSED after dinner.. no snacks no making it up with junky options.  I think parents still should be overseeing what their kids do and do not eat at that age.. as much as practical...

For older kids.. like Clove's SD.. I think it's fine to let her know when the "meal is ready".. but if that doesn't work well with her schedule then she is free to fix herself something later whether it be leftovers.. or some other relatively healthy option.  I can see not being hungry at a dinner time if she has a late lunch period at school.. or even an early one where she needed to grab a snack when she first came home.. so dinner is not at an optimal time for her.  I don't think the household has to run on her timeline.. but she at almost 16 should be able to forage and clean up after herself.

When she announces she is hungry.. I would simply say "There is leftover lasagna from dinner in the red tupperware  if you want that.. otherwise you are on your own".

Now.. if dad notices she is just grazing on junk.. it's his job to step in and talk to her about eating habits and that it's not acceptable to skip dinner to eat popcorn, chips, cookies and poptarts

Stepdrama2020's picture

 Dang those memories  "Whats too painful to remember  we simply choose to forget..." Barbara Streisand must have been a SM LOL

When snot nosed long faced ex SD graced us with her being at meal time it was ALL on her terms. Ex DH would go as far as saying to me did you butter her bread right to the corners. The LAST time she ate a meal with me and my cooking her face looked like she sucked a lemon. I told the lil waka doodle " dont bother to eat then go hungry . You are never hungry considering your room is filled with twinkie wrappers"    Ex DH went bat shit crazy on me. What a joy! 

Clove do not worry if princess back stabber joins or not. Keep the no cooking rule if she is gonna be a lil B.

caninelover's picture

Keep it simple.  Even if you and DH like a fancy meal at home - no steak and lobster when B/M is there.  But regular meals, go ahead and make extra.  If she doesn't want to join for dinner then pack it away.  If you need the leftovers for later in the week, mark it as do not touch with a sticky note.  Otherwise SD can forage away late at night, as long as she cleans up when she's done.  Keep a good stock of PB and J, and frozen pizzas.  If there aren't enough leftovers, or she doesn't want them, she can eat those.

It's not your responsibility to leave her a plate, so don't.  If DH wants to do so then he can put away the leftovers.  If it's wasted you can let him know that too.

Does DH put in extra $ for groceries the weeks she is there?  The summer Bratty lived with us SO put in an extra $300 a month to cover her food and utlities.  Maybe the week she is there tell DH he needs to pony up an extra $50 or so for groceries?

Mommymode1985's picture

My own daughter does this sometimes. My oldest BD is 15 and sometimes I ask her to eat with us and tell her it's a must and sometimes I let it go. She's 15 and I let her make some decisions. Dinner is not a hill I'll die on. I will NEVER however let food sit out. She's perfectly capable of heating and cleaning up food. Give her some space but remember if you want her to sit at the table with you it's your home. 

Miss T's picture

If you're still fussing and worrying about feeding or not feeding the kid, you're not disengaged. That, as you said, is what you need to work on, specifically disengagement around meals. I am a cook too, and it took some self-training and deliberately ignoring impulses to cook for SS before I could stop concerning myself with his feeding. Tell yourself that's the next step in your disengagement--don't care about his feeding--and work on that. JUST SAY NO. Of course if eating or cooking mess are left you will rain hell on your DH (not on SS as he's now on your ignore list).

harmony98's picture

 i think, if you are cooking anyway just do a plate.  pop it in the fridge.  if she wants to eat it later let her.  lots of kids have turned nocturnal these days. 

if she doesnt eat it. it could be used for a lunch the next day. 

if she starts to abuse this system by wanting different things.  then just go with if you dont eat dinner when we do. sort yourself out but clean up the mess. 

 

 

gymgoer's picture

I'm struggling with this issue as well. My SD has the oddest eating habits(in my opinion). She will only eat certain brands of foods bought from certain stores. If it's a different brand bought from a different store, she won't eat it. She's 16 going on 17 soon. And within the range of foods that she will eat, it is very limited. Most of her diet is junk food, much of it is fast food. But for years, I shopped for her "specific" needs and wants regarding her food. A few years ago, she wanted to try her hand at cooking her own meals. What happened was ridiculous. I would come in and there would be dishes everywhere, nothing cleaned up, food on the floor, kitchen counter, stove, dining room table, microwave, everywhere. Food splattered all over, dishes piled high. None of the dishes were in the sink - they were left on the counter and the stove. For years, I tried to correct this behavior, to no avail. My wife would be furious with me every time I tried to get my SD to clean up. Absolutely furious. Today, it remains unchanged. The amount of time I spend cleaning up after SD in kitchen is outrageous. She leaves dishes and food and messes everywhere - won't clean anything, ever. She admitted to her grandmother the other day that she doesn't know how to use a dishwasher, how to load it, or where the garbage cans are outside. She "requires" that I get her specific things from a specific store in town. But my couselor, she told me to stop all of that and more. Said total disengagement is no more shopping, no more kitchen work. Just stop all of it. And I find that hard to do - because I want the kitchen to look nice and be nice for the 3 other members of our family, especially my youngest daughter. 

CLove's picture

Your therapist is spot on. You need to disengage. Your wife gets mad at you for asking that her Special Flower cook and clean up after herself? Ok, well then you ask your Sweet Wifey to clean up after her Special Flower.

You, knowing your SD16/17 made the mess and its obviously hers: "Sweet Wifey, can you clean these dishes here? What, its Special Flowers dishes? Oh ok, can you take care of these right now, so I can prepare a meal for my kiddos and myself? Thank you Sweet Wifey.'

So, that way its win/win. You get the mess cleaned up, remain disengaged, and Sweet Wifey doesnt get mad. At you. Maybe she will ask Special Flower to do it...or not, you are disengaged from caring.

Ispofacto's picture

Your little girl is learning that bullies get to turn giving people into doormats.

Stop enabling this toxic situation.  This will go on forever.  Get mad.

 

Cover1W's picture

If it's THAT bad that is not a tenable living situation. At all, for you or your daughter. There's a point at which the mess becomes too much and if your wife isn't cleaning it up either then you really are the unpaid housecleaner, as I suspect, is your daughter.

Rags's picture

Only at dinner time? WTF?
 

This is a 17yo. Time for it to starve if it chooses not to eat what is provided. No more special shopping, etc.....  Also, time to give your idiot DW clarity that any mess, etc.. her failed family progeny makes, she picks up or  you will pull the trashcan in, dump it all in, pans, dishes, etc.. .and all, and SD & DW can fish it out with her bare hands or your idiot wife can go to the store and replace it all.  Mess, trash. Mess, trash. Mess, trash.

Why does it take a counseler to give you clarity on what you have had beaten into your face with a toxic 2x4 by your idiot wife and her failed family progeny for years?  Grow some balls man. Please. Get your daugher out of there. Before she starts splashing in the shallow and polluted end of her own gene pool. Assuming that your "youngest daughter" is also your DW's genetic progeny.

Good luck.

Someoneelse's picture

I in no way think that you are being too harsh... but disengaging means not caring. let DH figure it out. If he wants to heat up left overs, or have SD heat up leftovers, thats on them... It's best to just leave them to it... don't get up and wait on her, don't let them bring you into all of that. tell DH before hand, that you will NOT be waiting on SD if she decides later that she's hungry, not even if they can't find the left overs