I Met the BM - What the hell happened?????
So, I wrote a previous post about my SO being enmeshed with his BM. I thought it was getting a little better as he had told me that he would not "greet" BM with a hug and kiss when he sees her (everyday), and work on some other concerns of mine. There have still been niggles, which I've tried not to blow up about, like SO setting up his kids furniture and buying new stuff for his kids rooms in BM's house and things like that. Also the fact that he and BM see each other everyday and they buy each other expensive gifts for christmas (who buys their ex a vacation??)
Today I was at SO's house and had spent the night. It's his birthday and his kids were being dropped off so we could go out for the day. I hadn't met BM before, and no interest in doing so. Their relationship has caused so many fights and I just wanted to stay out of it. Anyway, I naively assumed that when the kids (teenagers) were dropped off they wouldn't have BM come in with them. Do teenagers really need an escort inside?? So I was there waiting for the kids with SO and then they turn up with presents. We are saying hello and then I hear a female laughing and turn around to see BM walking straight into the house. SO hadn't given me a heads up that she would be coming in at all. She walks right up to me with a big smile and SO introduces her. Yes, he introduced her, not me. Didn't even mention my name, just said "this is ex". I put my hand out to shake hers as I wanted to be polite. She grabs my hand and pulls me towards her with such force that I was knocked off balance. Proceeds to hug and kiss me. Way too much for me. I am not the sort to just hug and kiss random people I haven't met before and thought it was very presumptuous of her to assume it was okay to do.
Then we all stand around, with SO and his eldest chatting together and me next to BM. SO didn't try to make it comfortable for me at all. BM starts telling me that youngest skid was so excited to spend the day with me. Now, that's nice the the skid likes me. I really like both the kids too, but the way BM was saying it was like she was indulging me some time with "her" family, as though I was a little playmate. I didn't engage in conversation with her and was just hoping she would get the hell out of there. SO meanwhile was still ignoring us and chatting with eldest kid. BM then starts telling me how SO and skid can talk about this stuff for hours etc etc. I know this, I spend quite a bit of time with SO, and his kids. I don't need BM to tell me about my SO, we have been together a year and it was like she was trying to let me know how well she knows SO, and I don't.
Then, my favourite part happened. BM went over to SO and threw her arms around him in a long full frontal hug and kissed him on the cheek and wished him happy birthday. I just stood there seething and feeling like a complete outsider. BM was fussing over SO and telling the kids to spoil "daddy" today, It went on and on and on. The whole thing was incredibly odd. BM was friendly, yes. But it was way over the top friendly. Weirdly friendly. She took over the room and it felt like I was an intruder in their family. I actually fell really sick about it now. I'm so pissed off that SO didn't tell me that she would be there, about the hugging and kissing, her making out like she was the woman of the house. She was way too comfortable in that house, so much so that I felt like the new visitor in "their" home. Worst of all, after BM eventually left I was so upset but had to pretend that everything was fine as the kids were there and we went out for SO's birthday. He never brought it up at all. Not one word about BM, or her kissing him etc. After all the fights we have had he acted like it was do fine it wasn't even worth a mention.
Am I unreasonable feeling like this? The problem is if I say anything about how inappropriate I thought it all was and how much it upset me then I will look like the bad guy. After all BM was soooo friendly to me. She was so passive aggressively "nice" but obviously (to me) exerting her authority. Am I misreading this situation? This is the same woman who badmouth SO to the kids all the time and tries to pressure them not to see him. He thinks he is being the better man by keeping the peace. I just think he is being a doormat who hasn't gotten over his family breaking up. I didn't see anything romantic between them today, more of an ownership thing. On the plus side, BM is extremely unattractive. That did make me feel a little better }:)
Ah. . . no. She clearly
Ah. . . no. She clearly wanted to show her she was the alpha-female or alpha-friend, if you want to call it that. Still in charge and #1 in her ex's life. But, some women are fine being #2, or #3, or #4. TLC has the show about some guy with multiple "wives." They all have a pecking order, I'm sure.
Ha, tempting that idea is! I
Ha, tempting that idea is! I have strong principles with this though. I wouldn't respect myself if I was dating other men when I had given my word I am exclusive with SO. I will just give SO a little time to put his ducks in a row with BM, and if that doesn't happen then I will walk away. Thanks!
What exactly does that mean
What exactly does that mean "put his ducks in a row with BM?" Does he know what YOU expect him to do and how YOU expect him to behave around BM, have YOU laid this out for him? Notice that this is all about you, SO and BM's relationship obviously work fine for them. I agree with poster above that it may be wise to pursue a relationship with a lot less baggage. This will always be an uphill fight for you.
The relationship they have
The relationship they have works for them and their children. You can't force him to change what Cleary works for the 4 of them for you.
If you can't deal with their closeness, (I sure as hell couldn't )just walk away. This isn't the man for you.
i would run now - he is still
i would run now - he is still very enmeshed with the supposed ex.
Thanks for your input ladies,
Thanks for your input ladies, you have valuable advice. I do struggle with a balance between accepting things that I shouldn't and feeling "selfish" for expecting to be treated as a priority. I had a big talk with SO about this last night. I didn't back down and just put my thoughts forward in a calm manner. I told him that I wouldn't accept him putting BM's feelings ahead of mine to avoid upsetting her and just because people have kids together it doesn't give them an excuse to have an inappropriate relationship with an ex.
SO and BM are not amicable "friends". There is a lot of underlying conflict and BM is very passive aggressive in trying to alienate the kids from SO. If it was just a situation where SO and BM had no drama and were friendly then I would have to suck it up. But as the matter stands all this "buddy buddy" stuff is really just them being enmeshed in a unhealthy emotional way. The "friendship" is so fake and BM uses it to manipulate and control SO. The kids have her badmouthing their dad all the time and trying to pressure them not to see him and then see BM and SO hugging and kissing when they are together and him jumping every time she snaps. That must be so confusing for the kids.
SO got very defensive at first, as he has every other time this has come up. He always tries to turn it around onto me saying that I don't trust him and it must be really me who has not moved on from my ex if I have these thoughts about SO and BM. I have a very professional relationship with my ex. We are friendly, but not friends. No unnecessary contact and we live our own lives independently. So, SO really doesn't have a leg to stand on with that one. I stood my ground and simply told him that he is so worried about upsetting BM but fine with upsetting me. I asked him to decide where his loyalty lies and who he wants as his future. I think that made an impact with him. He backed down very quickly after that and said that he is willing to set proper boundaries and asked for my suggestions on how to do it. He has this weird idea that going along with BM is taking away her power as she doesn't know that the lack of boundaries bothers him. I told him that it is the opposite. People respect people who are clear in what is acceptable and unacceptable to them. People will treat you how you let them. It is taking BM's power away by setting strict boundaries and not engaging in anything outside of them. SO says he has no feelings for BM. I told him that does not seem to be the case as he is so concerned with her knowing that the "closeness" they have is a problem and this suggests that he is too worried about what she thinks of him. So, without giving an ultimatum I was very clear that this is a deal breaker for me and for us to be able to move on I wouldn't go along with having another woman in our relationship. Fingers crossed SO does't get sucked back into BM's vortex and goes through with his promises to me. I know that I can't continue in this relationship if boundaries aren't set and I will move on should it come to that.
My philosophy with boundaries
My philosophy with boundaries is that I will walk away (calmly) with no look backwards if someone is not treating me right. I don't believe in trying to convince someone that they need to "act right". If they don't see that their actions are totally inappropriate then I will not force them to do something that they don't want to do.
My motto: Next. (as in next man)
Even if you were both
Even if you were both married?
Yes.
Yes.
Your attitude makes sense to
Your attitude makes sense to me notasm3. I agree that we shouldn't have to convince people to do the right thing. It should be obvious to them and thus amended themselves without direction. I do think, though, that men can have an odd view on how to best handle a situation and can also be oblivious to what is actually going on. For example, my SO thought when I met BM that she was just being friendly. It was only when I pointed a few things out that he turned around and said, yes, BM wouldn't normally act like that when meeting anyone else, she was manipulating the situation. He didn't see what was happening right in front of his face until it was pointed out. Men really seem to not pick up on the subtleties that are blatant to woman. I've noticed this a lot with my male friends, father and brothers also. They only see the black and white, whereas women read between the lines to get the true meaning. I guess we learn how to do it as teenagers, girls can be such bitches that we have to become adept at inferring body language, passive aggressiveness etc. Just my take. I'm with you though, that if a man can't fix the situation even if it's pointed out then it is NEXT!!
You don't need to 'give him
:jawdrop: You don't need to 'give him time' to sort out anything. He is happy with the way things are. And so is BM.
YOU are the only one who is not happy. YOU are the outsider here. Tell him that since things are not working out for you you are ready to move on. Make it a clean break. No phone calls, no texts, no emails, no contact on facebook; nothing.
The other alternative is to spend many years of your life feeling like the third wheel. Your choice.
In the middle of August, you
In the middle of August, you two were splitting up after he screamed at you regarding his relationship with BM. See here: http://www.steptalk.org/node/221616
It looks like you're back together? And he promised to stop the over-friendliness with BM? Well, when rubber hits the road, he's not willing to change a single thing.
Yes, your gut feelings about all of that with BM being a dominance thing are correct. It is exactly what she was doing. Granting you "permission", hanging on SO, telling you about DH as if you didn't know, these were all to show you that she is top dog.
So, BM thinks she is top dog. Your SO thinks it's okay that BM thinks she is top dog. Why are you still with him? I presume you got back together based on promises to change, but now you've seen proof they were empty promises.
I'm really sorry to say it, but all signs point to this guy still having feelings for the BM, BM knowing that, and BM exploiting that. She cheated on him and he's not over it (nor is she). They're making motions of moving on with others, but they're still very much emotionally involved. Right now, he'll only have a lasting relationship with someone who allows his main relationship (with BM) to continue, otherwise any relationship he is in will fall apart. So he needs someone with no standards and low self-esteem. Is that you?
Please leave him and find better. You will not be happy in this situation. How much more proof do you need? Make decisions about the relationship based on the reality of it, not the potential of it that exists only in your head. He may be a great guy, he may think he's emotionally available, but he's not.
^^^^^ exactly right. She's
^^^^^ exactly right.
She's taking top dog position. He's letting her !!
Sorry but that's what is happening
Thank you, I appreciate the
Thank you, I appreciate the kick up the ass. You are right, we did get back together. Somethings got noticeably better, some didn't change and I naively lived in hope. I really don't think SO wants to get back together with BM as a romantic thing. But he is so obsessed with his "family" that he is still living like they are a family unit. Why they bothered divorcing just to still act like a family I don't know. So silly, and unfair on the kids to put them through the divorce. Where you said that he may be a great guy, but emotionally unavailable hit a chord. That sums it up. He is a great guy, and apart from this shit with BM we have a lovely relationship. But that it all pointless if he isn't emotionally available. I told SO that I wasn't interested in being in this unhealthy dynamic any longer. It's too dysfunctional for my kids and I. He is angry and upset and trying to talk me around and saying he will change it all. Unfortunately it's just too little too late. Boy am I glad I didn't move in or get pregnant!
I wanted to say that you guys are awesome. This forum really helped me see the truth. I tried to ask friends about this but they just didn't get it. But then again they have never dated a divorced dad. It's kind of like asking someone who has never had any kids how to be a parent. So easy for them to say to just let it go and it's so good for the kids for SO and BM to still have a "family" together. Yeah........ I'm sure if there was an ex that their DH's were acting like a family with then it would be a different story! You all have experience behind you and know the ins and outs, makes a huge difference. Thanks again!
"But he is so obsessed with
"But he is so obsessed with his "family" that he is still living like they are a family unit."
There is no room for a love interest in his life if he's still operating as if he's in a family with BM and kids.
If that's what he wants, then he needs to find a woman who wants to be a sister-wife.
"I told SO that I wasn't interested in being in this unhealthy dynamic any longer. It's too dysfunctional for my kids and I. He is angry and upset and trying to talk me around and saying he will change it all. Unfortunately it's just too little too late."
Good for you. I know it feels tempting to hang in there just a little longer, but trust that even if he does make changes, if he's not emotionally prepared and wanting them for himself, it will blow up in your face.
See, once he starts to create distance and boundaries, BM will be angry. She'll lash out at your character, and since he's still drinking the kool-aid that she "has the kids' best interest at heart", he'll be liable to believe her. She wants him to believe that this over-involvement is normal, and, in his eyes, she's still a trusted source of reality. Deep down, he will believe the "Evil Stepmother" myth about you. He doesn't want to see that he's simply being used as BM's stability and comfort as she goes out and find excitement and sex with new men. And it's shame for him, because he may wake up years from now and see how he let himself be manipulated.
If you had a good connection, he may come sniffing around after some time has passed. Without you there to blame, his eyes might open to how unhealthy his dynamic is and he may make some changes himself. This is what is best, because the changes will be 100% his idea. He won't be changing for anyone but himself, and therefore there is no one to blame but the BM. So if he comes sniffing, be very wary, but it will be possible that things will be better. If less than 6 months have passed, it hasn't been enough time for real change to take place, so don't get sucked in.
For your emotional health, it's best to consider this over with.
"This forum really helped me see the truth. I tried to ask friends about this but they just didn't get it. But then again they have never dated a divorced dad. It's kind of like asking someone who has never had any kids how to be a parent. So easy for them to say to just let it go and it's so good for the kids for SO and BM to still have a "family" together."
People are very naive unless they've experienced it themselves. People want to believe the best in others, and that everyone will "put the children first" and there is no parental ego involved. Unfortunately, that rarely happens. And what is the point of divorce, exactly, if there is still "family"? People lose common sense when they see children involved. When there are no children, divorce is allowed to be a severing of ties. But when there are kids, noooo, they're still family!
Have confidence you've done the right thing. You saved yourself a great deal of heartache. Find another man who has appropriate boundaries. It's best if he has some relationships under his belt since any divorce, since those women will be the sacrificial lambs to help him gain distance from the BM. Or, better yet, find a childless man