Question about withholding visitation.

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So as some of you might remember from my past posts BM has all of a sudden started acting crazy since we had DS. Well first it started with bad mouthing us to the kids, then requiring all kinds of money we don't have which if we don't fork up we are the bad ones preventing skid from playing this certain sport or activity. Now it's stepped up to straight up alienation. SD thinks mommy is the ruler of the universe and can violate court order whenever it suits them. Daddy is their personal ATM. Zero respect from either kid or BM. SD says she will "sign a paper saying she doesn't have to come over." Mommy's boyfriend is their new special dad that does everything for them and loves them like his own. That kind of thing. It's just been a shit show lately. DH feels utterly powerless with her and I'm trying to help him find where his balls rolled off to.

She has been withholding visitation on a regular basis. I know that it is illegal for her to do this. Do we file a police report about it, do we just print out her messages saying we will not be permitted to pick them up, both?

I remember when I was a teen I would go with my step mom to pick up my step siblings. Their half way point was a police station. If he refused to bring them she would go in and have an officer sign something that said he didn't show up. Is that what we should do also? We pick them up at their house, so do we just use the messages to prove that she won't allow visitation? Do we bring an officer to her house? I'm sorry, I'm really naive about this.

You can call the police

You can call the police station to file a report. One issue is that the court order must be specific on dates, for example, "Every other weekend, starting on 9/12/12" so that it is clear that there is a violation. But, i think that in your case, the court order along with her messages will be sufficient.

The police will just call her but they typically don't get too involved. But you will have the official police report to go file a motion of contempt with the court stating that she is withholding visitation.

You can call the police

Well we have them every

Well we have them every weekend, so does the date matter? Do you mean just to verify which weekend is on and off?
Thank you for the advice.

Well, that makes it easy

Well, that makes it easy then. Call the police and have it documented and make sure you get a copy of the police report. Where I live, we can do this online.

Then when you have a few examples, go open a case. File to ammend custody, based on your DH being the more willing parent to ensure there is a relationship with the children between both parents and also file a motion of contempt for BM not following the court order.

I understand that the police

I understand that the police can't do anything, it would be so we had evidence to file for contempt. I'm more asking, how can they be a "witness" Will the messages be enough? Do we need to take them to her house and prove that she will not let us take them?

What I have seen with BM and

What I have seen with BM and SO is that the more evidence the better. In our CO, we get 4 hours time on birthdays, she refused SS last year and then called the police. SO videoed on his phone the whole time. Officer said he would testify. Police report.
All that, judge would not look at video, would not consult officer. All that and it didn't matter. BM does as she wants.
Just take as much evidence as you have.

DH told her to go ahead and

DH told her to go ahead and do it. She only does threatens it went she's punished. It's just smack talk really.

And their step dad is a great guy. They just like to make DH feel bad so he'll spoil them. It's disgusting. When I was 13 (exactly their age) my own mother passed away. So for me to see them treat their dad like he's worthless and nobody to them drives me up the wall.

He actually said that to her

He actually said that to her a few weeks ago at MIL's house the other day. She was beating on her brother, DH called her on it, she threatened to "sign" He told her to go right ahead. If she doesn't want to come over then he won't force her. He said he's been the best dad he can be, always spent time with them, never missed child support, used to even have primary custody. If none of that was good enough that's her problem not his. I almost burst into happy tears right on the spot.

He actually has to try to

He actually has to try to pick them up in order for her to be in comtempt. He needs to go to the house. If BM refuses to hand them over he needs to call the police. If he doesn't go because BM said he couldn't all she has to say is she didn't mean it & he never showed to try to get them.

That makes sense. Thank you

That makes sense. Thank you everyone.

In order for the visitation

In order for the visitation violations to hold your DH HAS to make the attempt to go get them or the judge will not do anything. The emails or messages are great but he has to attempt to get them. Go to the pickup place if the kids don't come out then call the police from that spot. Take a picture with a date and time stamp, buy something from the convenience store next door, anything that will help prove you were there for the kids. BM can always say she changed her mind and Dad never showed up. The name of the game is CYA!

I'd be surprised if police

I'd be surprised if police even gave out a piece of paper to write out a report or complaint. It's a family law civil matter. The court doesn't need the police helping enforce its own orders that's what the marshal does.

Here's what I had to do. Took a witness with me to pick up kid. He did nothing but witness me ask for kid, her refusal, door being slammed. I filed complaint with family court charging her with criminal violation of the courts order.

At hearing I examined my witness and judge told her if it happened again it was jail time. End of problem.

Then when the kid turned 14 I told him he could stay with his mamma and didn't contact him again until he reached out at age 24. He was welcomed into the family again by which time he knew his mother was a evil person. I asked him to think of her with pity and recognize her insanity for what it was. Think what it must be like being in her head.

I don't like the kid, he reflects his step-fathers traits which included cheating customers and other dealings such as when selling a personal vehicle. But that's another story.

You'll probably need an attorney to make these filings unless he is good at reading law and can sort out court procedure. My law library had a proceedings manual available and it included the forms. Filings are public information so I got another persons filings filled out by an attorney as a guideline.

But I recommend he just drop the kid and let her come back when she's ready. She's at an age where she will soon prefer her friends anyway. He'll like her better as an adult and she will understand he can't be pushed around.

What the cops can and/or will

What the cops can and/or will do depends on each jurisdiction. I had a friend that called them at each violation to witness, and after 2-3 times, they asked him to stop and just take video of the pick up being denied. Some are more willing to get involved.

If he doesn't actually try to

If he doesn't actually try to pick them up, she's not refusing visitation. Emails don't mean squat He actually has to show and make the effort.

fiance has filed a police

fiance has filed a police report every time visitation is denied. it happened yet again this past weekend although SD did ultimately come with him but again just for the day (she refuses to sleep over and he refuses to force her).

I'm in a similar situation

I'm in a similar situation and am both sad and relieved that I'm not alone. I got married 6 months ago. I didn't anticipate anything unusual since I'd been dating the dad for 5 yeas, he'd been divorced for years before that and I'd known ss and bm for years, we'd gotten along fine. Not long after the wedding though, ss (age 13) started being rude to dh, making all kinds of excuses to not come over , and also complaining about me even though all our interactions were normal and fine as far as I could tell. In a meeting with dh, bm and a psychologist, ss said some hurtful and untrue things about me. Psychologist said he just needed time "to adjust" and the decision on who to spend time with should be up to him, which was music to bm's ears since to her that means that whenever he doesn't want to come over, she can justify his staying at her house even though they are supposed to be sharing custody. Then ss made all these demands about getting a different room in my dh's house, basically making that a condition that had to be met before he would spend any time with us, so my husband spent an entire weekend moving furniture up and down stairs, bm actually was part of it because at that point she was sick of having ss at her place 24/7 and wanted him to spend time there. Ss spent a few weeks with us, seemed fine (although I mostly kept my distance, i don't trust him). Now he suddenly says "he's done" coming over, that I did or said something that upset him (i have NO idea what, I was hardly even here the last few times he came over) , and he's just going to stay with his mom. bm says she's done being a "mediator". This is all a huge amount of bs. I'm a good person, a successful teacher and a mom myself of a 17 year old who's turnng out to be a pretty good kid, and who Ss seemed to like and claimed to want to spend more time with, except now he want give any of us the time of day. I am really disgusted with bm because if she's not deliberately alienating ss from us, she is encouraging the alienation by not requiring him to go with his dad on his scheduled visitation days or disciplining ss when he lies (which he does a lot) or is disrespectful to us. The only explanation I can think of for ss's behavior is that dh and bm used to make him the absolute center of their lives, they'd practically compete with each other to buy stuff for him, take him on trips, be at his beck and call, etc. dh started backing off within the last year or so, he started to realize that wasn't a good atmosphere for his son and he wanted more out of life for himself, like marrying me and having the four of us lead a blended life. My son, my husband and I are fine. We never imagined things would get so bad with the ss. I suppose my dh could contact lawyers about the visitation, but he doesn't seem to want to. He is also hurt by his son's rejection of both of us and his attitude is, if ss doesn't want to be part of our lives, fine. Ss certainly isn't the absolute center of his universe anymore, we're all doing our own thing. Dh tries to spend time with ss and I stay out of the way, since apparently ANYTHING I do or don't do will be used against me, but it doesn't matter what we do, ss tells his mm all kinds of bs and again is refusing to have anything to do with us. Maybe in the long run that's better than going through lots of drama? I don't know. I just feel angry about being talked about and treated like a piece of garbage (i'm an experienced teacher for crying out loud, I have a long and mostly good track record with kids) and in particular seeing my husband treated so horribly by his own child. Bm doesn't seem to care, she has been disrespectful to me in person on one occasion and never punishes ss for anything, even when he lies or is disrespectful to others. Ss is very childish, acts more like he's 5 or 6 (others say that, not me) instead of 13. Thanks for reading and good luck with your situation. I'm wondering how many people are in this situation? I know I should just continue keeping my distance, I've done nothing wrong, but it's frustrating in ways I never imagined. I didn't think being a stepmom was going to be easy, but it never crossed my mind that I would be denied the opportunity to even try. I would really like to tell bm and ss how hurtful and unnecessary all this bogus crap is, but I know that I should follow my dh's lead and stay out of it. Right?

So much of what you said rang

So much of what you said rang a bell with me!! I also have a SS who at 12 stopped wanting to visit and when asked why by DH, told him he had "done the visitation thing for 10 years and was tired of it!!" (This actually was false, since he was 4 when visitations started, but whatever!) BM also was a Disney BM who did NOTHING to facilitate the relationship or visitations and felt it was all on DH. She sure did her part in alienting. Seems almost every time SSs had visitation, there either was some fantastic party at BM's parents that they were missing, or they were leaving for vacation the moment they arrived home on Sunday [from the torture of visitation with us!] And BM could not have cared less whether SSs saw DH or not. That was DH's problem! My DH is very non-confrontational and decided NOT to push it despite the court order, as he feared it would make oldest SS hate him even more, so we backed off. DH continued to get youngest SS for about 6 months, who then started saying he didn't want to come without his brother. Oldest SS became VERY estranged and refused to communicate with DH at all. SS joined a heavy metal band, grew his hair long and wrote songs about DH "abandoning" him. DH remained ready and willing to bring SS for visitation at any time, and of course, DH's CS of $1200 continued without fail every two weeks, and today is approaching $300K. (Pretty good chunk of change for a suck @ss dad who abandoned you, huh?) My DH changed nothing but would still text or leave a VM for oldest SS (who would never respond.) Things got even worse about 1 1/2 years ago, when DH learned that oldest SS had gotten married at 19 and quit college because his gf was pregnant.

About a year ago, everything changed dramatically. DH learned through social media that SS's daughter was born, and DH called SS and left a VM, and SS called him back!! Little by little, they've been communicating more, and SS and his wife and daughter have even spent the night in our home!! SS was PLEASANT and we had fun! The angry, hostile young man has left. Do I think he knows what his mother did to PAS him and how his dad just stayed the same? I don't know. Of course, we don't discuss it. However, although the relationship is not super-close, my DH feels he did the right thing by not forcing it. Youngest SS is now 18 and has never been estranged. He's just "mentally lazy" like BM, meaning he doesn't deal with anything he doesn't have to. We almost never see him or hear from him but he's cool when we do. It's not ideal, but we are hoping as these boys mature, they will realize all that their dad did and how their mother contributed to what happened to the relationship.

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Question about withholding visitation.