Disengaged a couple of years ago from my husbands daughter. Will be disengaged for as long as a god sees fit to leave me on this earth. If heaven is meant to be happiness and peace in a loving home with God the father, then he won't be inflicting her on me in the next life either. That being said, I actually made eye contact with her boyfriend today. He to has contributed quite well to the conflict and destruction of dhs family. He and I were in the same shopping centre, I turned the corner there he was. I, without any feelings whatsoever just stepped aside and continued on to meet my daughter. You know what. I saw my daughter about 3 minutes after seeing the boyfriend, I kissed her and the grandkids, she went up to order coffee. A few hours later I remembered I'd forgotten to tell her I'd bumped into the boyfriend. I think I've finally moved on as it didn't turn me into an over anxious panic stricken mess, as it has in the past. When I remembered later on I'd forgotten to tell my daughter, I also realised, he didn't evoke any memories of the past and more amazingly, the sight of him didn't even bring back memories of my husbands daughter. I passed him and astonishingly, clearly just forgot him. If that's forgiveness, then I have it.

That being said. She will never be part of my life ever again. Not because I have any feelings of anger or resentment towards her now, I don't, I seriously, thank God, feel nothing. Just as I was able to pass the boyfriend today as though he were just another shopper in the centre and forget within minutes I had, I'm pretty sure I could now do the same with her.

However she has shown me what she is capable of. She and her boyfriend have. I would be very silly to FORGET that experience. That would be like picking up a rattle snake to unwittingly play with it, when the thing had bitten you and made you so ill that it almost cost you your life, you would be very silly not to keep your distance from rattle snakes, or forget that they bite.

We are supposed to learn from our mistakes. Trying to befriend someone who wanted nothing to do with you, was a mistake. Allowing a woman who hated myself and my husband so much she wanted us both dead, to come into my home and stay in my life for years until I was so sick that I had real concerns as to whether I was going to make it through or not, was a mistake. I've learnt. I won't repeat that mistake. You can never really trust a snake.

Ebu, I agree totally. I have born the pain of just how cruel dh's ex and daughters have been toward us. It is one thing to have an angry moment and say mean things, but to plot and plan to destroy someone's wedding day takes a special kind of person, someone that will never have any place in my life. I do not want to forgive them, nor forget,and I harbor tons of anger and resentment. Is it a problem for me? Hm....at times I do feel guilty because if it were not for me, dh would carry on with the things as if nothing happened. But today, a new morning, I have none! Bottom line.........I feel the things are capable of even having us murdered if it suits them, so my selfl preservation mode kicks in..
Last year dh gave me tons of crap over this forgiveness issue by calling me a bad Christian, or hypocritical one. That cut deep and I told him that unless he was having this same talk with the things, I would not tolerate anymore from him. He since has accepted that the things are dead to me.

I think forgiving yourself is the hardest part - I'm sure most of us on here where well rounded happy loving people with no intention to hurt anybody. Unfortunately these situations bring out such emotions that are dangerous and we don't recognize ourselves anymore and it is so confusing.

For me, my forgiveness of SD and the things she has done are for me, not her. I was so angry at her for so long that I realized she had power over me thru my anger, no more. I am indifferent when it comes to her. I don't hate her, I don't like her, I just don't care about her. Once I retch that point I let go of it, she no longer has the power, I do.

I used to feel a lot of anger towards my mother. I walked around blaming her for things and feeling I had been ripped off in life....

Then one day I learned to just let.it.go....

It is what it is. Blame it on my mom's SM (she always did) blame it on my mom being entitled and selfish...whatever.

One day I realized I couldn't move on in life until I acknowledged my mom was screwed up and incapable of being what one would normally expect...I forgave her.

I forgave my mom not for her sake. Not for her sake at all. I forsake her for MY sake. For me to feel at peace and move on in my life I had to let go of the anger, the blame and resentment and just accept it is what it is and once I did that...well, I don't fell any anger anymore

I still don't have much of a relationship with my mom. I still think she is in no way wonderful. But, because I forgave her I was able to move on.

Forgiveness is not at all about the person being forgiven. It's about your own emotional health and well-being.

Well for me, I would never tell SD that I forgive her for for all the emotional hurt, pain and stress she has caused. For being the catalyst for coming between myself, dh and his 89 year old father. She with her manipulations, tears and lies, set in motion for this 89 year old man, the breakdown of his relationship with his only son. It will be 2 years in February since dh has seen his father. This woman is evil, she is happy like that and enjoys the power she has over others. Forgiving her in her mind, would be to her, like saying she was right. It would only serve to feed her ego.

I will not forgive or forget there is nothing in me that feels the need, nothing at all really. But, thank God I seem to miraculously have reached a place of peace. A place of total indifference, a place where she means nothing. A place where i just don't care. I feel sorry for the damage she has done to others, sure, but she means nothing to me. I don't need to "forgive her" in any sense of the word to make myself feel better or find peace. I guess if I felt the need to forgive her, it would mean that I was still tied to her in some way, that she still impacted on me. That somehow she mattered. I don't know how it has come to pass, or the exact moment it did. But I have only noticed in the last three weeks that she evokes nothing in me. I saw a woman who looked like her about that time. I felt nothing. Then yesterday I made eye contact with her boyfriend, again nothing. They were just people in the shopping centres. People I walked past like any other. No hair on the back of my neck standing up, no catching my breath, no stressing for a few minutes after the experience. Nothing. It's finally over. Thank you God.

If you believe SD hurt you or wronged you (im sure this understated) and you still feel that hurt, then you can forgive her internally regardless of her position. But like you say you may have missed that opportunity because now you may not even care and are indifferent. And also what is interesting is that if you consider that she is not to be blamed because she knows no better than how can you have been wronged?

I am not trying to inject religion here but I am just thinking of a certain biblical passage where one says.. ".. forgive them for they know not what they do." My Lord! What the hell does that mean???

I dont feel anything for SS if I dont have to. Out of site out of mind bliss. It's only when he comes in to my life that I confess I have EXTREME DISLIKE. And mind you he is back seemingly improved, but I still dont care (also understated).

I think about my attidude an my feelings and wonder what If I was a better person? This is hard stuff, long term prolonged emotional pain. Not easy.

There is good and evil in the world. It is that simple. Evil knows exactly what it's doing.

It's funny, this blame the victim theme is coming through here.

I get the sense that some people think the injured person has to forgive in order to feel better within themselves. That if your stepchild committed horrendous acts of evil upon you and your family, then YOU need to forgive in order to move on. You don't. You can learn from the experience, realize that this is a person who is toxic for you, so you need to move on and have no more to do with them. You have nothing to forgive if you are a victim. You do have to learn not to become a victim though, perhaps that is why we were sent this experience. God was sick and tired of us letting everyone push us around, so he gave us this kick in the guts in the hope we would learn to value ourselves. You do have to love yourself enough to let it go, put it in the past, and not let it affect your future, time and distance takes care of that. Suggesting that people now have to worry about not wanting to forgive in a religious or Webster's sense of the word, could impede the progress of those who are in the process oh moving away and out of the hate. It could add guilt to their fragile situation.

Each of us has to deal with this in a way that we see fit. It's not one size fits all.

To forget the experience would condemn you to repeat it. To forgive evil, is to condone it. To live your life in peace, without fear, and treating others as you would like to be treated is to live it to the fullest and not waste the precious life we have been given.

Forgive them for they know not what they do, may apply to people with severe mental illness, in which case, forgiveness comes easy. But people who just want what they want when they want it and don't give a damn who they destroy on the road to their entitlement. They know exactly what they're doing.

That's what I was saying Sandy, someone telling you you should forgive her is implying that you have not done enough, that at
Some level, you could've made it all better if you'd just forgiven. It makes you feel bad, starts you questioning yourself all over again. Then
Feel guilty just for finally feeling good about yourself because you let the abuser and the abuse
Out of your life.

Seems to me this is reminiscent of the days when our husbands blamed us, felt we should do more, that ultimately WE are responsible for the family discord. Blame the victim.

I also think it's the height of arrogance to tell anyone that they need to forgive in order to move on. People need time, they need to feel free to talk about it and or write about it until they feel they have it out of their system. What they don't need is condescending remarks.

I use to know how to forgive, I know this is something I really need to work on for myself. But when I think of all the things that have been said to me, it makes me angry. I think of what have I done to you except marry my husband. I know I listened to their toxic talk, I thought why would they lie to me. I really wanted to be friends with them. But its hard to swallow when you have been accused of some things you never even said. I'm not even sure how my husband see's me anymore. I feel I have become bitter , angry. I feel my husband should trust me . Now when it comes to his adult kids I'm not saying a word. I will start today on working for forgiveness for myself. Again I'm glad this site is here.

Hi there new to the group but can totally relate to the whole " why forgive they could care less"" feeling. I have been in my relationship for 3 years, the first time I told SS to apologize to my BS for screaming demands at him the child was totally offended! SS saw nothing wrong with the way he acted and refused to do so, I told him he could " do it with or without a sore butt". Later I had to look at the whole picture again and realized that he is a product of his upbringing but....I'm a firm believer that they make a choice as to how they want to act. My problem is Daddy won't put his foot down. SS is 12 BM gave him a laptop SS seems to think he can do anything he wants with it including taking it to school....um ya no he doesn't need to, even got a teacher at his school that is not one of his teachers to write a note saying it was ok for him to do so....REALLY...WTF! Now he wants his friends mom to bring him McDonalds for breakfast in the morning cause " there's nothing good enough to eat here". I have bought him everything he has asked for with in reason and now he won't eat it. I expressed my opinion to daddy and he absolutely had no response. Takes lunch he won't eat or even eat all of but will take it because someone else wanted it, is rude an smart mouthed to my BS who is 16 and 6'3" SS is 12 and 5' and I can't get daddy to grow some balls and do anything about it.

Yesterday, I talked to a priest about forgiveness of my brother and sinister in law in regards to the baggage I was carrying for the damage they've done to me. I want to better myself and better my life by putting my past behind me and going on without my dysfunctional family.

The priest told me that if someone does NOT ask for forgiveness, then it is not for you to forgive. If they do forgive, forgive them but please watch out to see if they are sincere enough to change and to be the person you wish for them to be to you, your spouse, and others. If they do not change and are trying to appease you, you have the right to hold them accountable for their behavior and ask them to leave (if they are old enough to be on their own).

Parents, no matter who they are, need to step up and BE parents, not friends to their children. Parents are afraid due to the guilt of the divorce. The deed has been done-the children need to get over it and learn how to get along with people who are sincere in helping them. If the skids are being unruly and the parent doesn't step up to do their job, with it being you home, you have a right to put that child in their place. I don't care-you live their too and no one has to put up with anyone's crap.

Yesterday, I talked to a priest about forgiveness of my brother and sinister in law in regards to the baggage I was carrying for the damage they've done to me. I want to better myself and better my life by putting my past behind me and going on without my dysfunctional family.

The priest told me that if someone does NOT ask for forgiveness, then it is not for you to forgive. If they do forgive, forgive them but please watch out to see if they are sincere enough to change and to be the person you wish for them to be to you, your spouse, and others. If they do not change and are trying to appease you, you have the right to hold them accountable for their behavior and ask them to leave (if they are old enough to be on their own).

Parents, no matter who they are, need to step up and BE parents, not friends to their children. Parents are afraid due to the guilt of the divorce. The deed has been done-the children need to get over it and learn how to get along with people who are sincere in helping them. If the skids are being unruly and the parent doesn't step up to do their job, with it being you home, you have a right to put that child in their place. I don't care-you live their too and no one has to put up with anyone's crap.

That post put into words my thoughts on this also. Although I have to be honest. If my husbands daughter ever said she was sorry, I would not believe it to be genuine. She would be after something,, more importantly. I don't feel any need to forgive her anything. She is nothing and no one to me. However this particular nothing wants me dead. I wouldn't care how sorry she was or how genuine it might be. She will never be a part of my life ever again. She is quite dangerous. Best for me to just keep moving on and keep healing myself from all the health issues the drama caused, without fear of when the next attack is coming. If she came to me said she needed my forgiveness in order to get on with her life. I would have no hesitation in telling her, move on, forget it, it's all good, I'm over it, no need for you to be worried about it. But while she would get that forgiveness from me if she needed it. She would never get another chance with me. I would never have her back in my life. What do they say, fool me once, shame on you, fool me twice, shame on me. She and her father will never get the chance to destroy me twice.

For me, forgiveness is about unplugging. Like many have said before, having indifferent feelings toward my step kids. That is my goal and why I was asking how to accomplish this. Right now, even hearing my SDs name makes my blood boil because of the way she's mistreated me; however, the only way I would ever entertain resuming a relationship with her would be for her to apologize to me. I would accept her apology and we could start to rebuild. Would i ever trust her again? Doubtful. Mainly I would do this for my Dh's benefit. I don't like to ever say "never" because I know how life rolls! To me forgiveness means peace. It's not condoning what was done to me, but it's taking away the meaning, feelings and importance associated with it. Now...to just get there!!

Thanks for sharing this Sandye21 - I am reading through the archives of where you were with SKIDville it's been very helpful to understand where you have come from. Although your emotions may or may not have changed since this post I wanted to let you know that I am not at indifference and certainly not at forgiveness for SKIDs. I am however forgiving myself and realizing how incredible I am. It's taken time to realize how precious I am and I am working to realize this and to start putting boundaries. Maybe the boundaries are my way of showing forgiveness - that I deserve better and you only get a small piece of me which I hope to be nothing at all in years to come. 

IMHO forgiveness is earned with the cessation of the behavior requiring forgiveness. If that behavior is continually perpetrated, there really cannot be nor should there be forgiveness because it is not earned.

Also, IMHO, the only person anyone can truly forgive is themselves. This also requires the cessation of whatever behavior that we need to forgive outselves for.  An epipany moment for me was when I realized that I had forgiven myself for how much I detested the toxic SpermClan for their continual manipulative crap.  Once I forgave myself, I just ceased to care about them at all and much like a bug splat on my windshield, any notice of them at all was extremely transient.  Self forgiveness was the equivelent of a new set of windshield wipers and a reservoir full of good windshield washer fluid going to work on the bug guts.

Now, when they occassionally crawl out from under the slime covered rock they reside under at the bottom of their shallow and polluted gene pool, to mess with my son or my bride, the forgiveness they benefit from expires and it is game on to pummel them back into the hole under their rock. Once they once again stop their crap, they benefit from me once again forgiving myself for how much I detest them. Once they are back under their rock, I rarely give them much thought except to engage with my kid on how he is doing in regard to them.

I first experienced this following the demise of marriage to my adulterous whore XW.  Once the divorce was final and I forgave myself my anger at her crap. My give a shit about her went to zero and she benefited from my forgiveness... of myself.  That situation has been far more durable forgiveness than the Sperm Clan situation. Once we were divorced, she was no longer cheating on me. She continued to cheat on her, at last count, two subsequent husbands to the point that two of her three all out wedlock children were conceived with a cheat buddy while she was married.  Her eldest she conceived while still married to me. That was the second she conceived while married to me. She was pregnant by that baby daddy when she moved out of our home but lost that baby to miscarriage.  She got re-knocked up following that miscarriage but before our final divorce hearing.  Their first was born 7mos after our divorce was final.  She called to share that great news.

She then had a second OOWL spawn with her cheat partner. He married her when their 2nd was a toddler then divorced her when she got knocked up by the guy she was cheating on him with. I actually had empathy for him at that point. I know how he felt.  The last I heard, husband number 3 kicked her out when she starting cheating on him. 

My forgiveness of her was granted when the Judge signed the divorce papers because at that point my give a shit went to zero. Though the periodic updates I get from mutual friends are about like watching a slow motion train wreck.  One of those things that makes me cringe but I just can't not notice as it continuously unfolds to the next tragic interlude.  I actually feel bad for my XW. I married a beautiful, smart, dynamic young woman.  What she was at her core is sadly tragic.  Though I suppose it is my XILs that I feel bad for more than feeling bad for my XW. 

She has not earned forgiveness at the comprehensive level IMHO. She keeps doing the same crap. IMHO there is no forgiveness in that. Particularly considering that she is Catholic, has never had our marriage annulled by the Church, and accepts Communion while not being in good standing with Rome.  This is heartbreaking for XFIL particularly.  We have run into each other periodically over the ~32 years since the divorce was final (next months is 32yrs) and each time we see each other tears start streaming down his face. It breaks my heart.

Simple, easy for me to understand.  I have never forgiven my XW nor have I forgiven the SpermClan. I have forgiven myself for my feelings about them.  They are covered by that forgiveness though they have not been nor will they ever be directly forgiven for their crap by me. They have not earned it. 

I do pray for them though.

That may seen an odd thing to do considering the history, but.... I owe that to myself I think.