Not if its not in the court order. Thats generally a decision you work out personally unless it is addressed in court documents. Your exH can ask for it in court, its not guaranteed, but until its address you are not obligated IF he is not going to be there for visitation at all. If he will be around some of the time during his parenting time, then yes. Its up to him who he leaves the daughter with during his time.
"You never realize how short a month is until you pay child support"
I dont have a problem with her but its getting to the point that he is making her skip school obligations to spend time with his new wife when he isnt even going to be there. My ex and I got along great until she came into the picture and now it is one dramatic confrontation after another.
Yes. I have two step daughters. I can tell you that I DO NOT contact their mother and start fights with her and I DO NOT keep them from their school obligations so they can spend time with me when their father is out of town.
As far as our house goes...I am as good as Dad. WE are a parenting team and the SK's are here durring the scheduled time no matter who is home or with them. To do anything else would be to non-verbally agree that step-parents are not parents and they do not care.
Is there a problem with your BK's stepmom or does she not want the responsibility?
I know in our case BM tried to have it specified in the court documents that the children were not to be with anyone (me) other than dad.
If he's not going to be there at all, I don't see why you would have to drop her off if it's not court ordered. If he just can't make it to pick her up, but will be home in a couple of hours, I don't see the problem with leaving her with her SM. It's totally up to you guys. Do you have ROFR? If you do, and you know your ex will be out of town, keep her.
On the other hand, I would have hated it if the BM did not allow me to see the kids while FH was deployed. I guess I am grateful that she did view me as free daycare EOWE while he was gone. It gave us time to bond with each other, w/o either parent's influence getting in the way. Does your BD get along with her SM? I would just be happy that my ex chose someone who is willing to care for my child regardless if he is there or not. Would you rather her willingly care for your daughter in her fathers absence, or would you prefer her to forbid your child to step foot in to her home if her father is not present? I'd go with the former.
...that her father keeps her from attending practices for sports, school obligations, etc. so that she can "spend time with him" and then my daughter tells me that he isnt even there. My daughter gets along fine with her step mother and I do not have a problem with step mom picking her up but my thought is that the visitation agreement is set up so that she can spend time with her father and if he isnt going to be there why does he have the right to force her to miss practices, etc.
I also have step children so I can see where it would be harmful for me to keep my daughter from seeing her step mom. That is not at all what I am trying to do but I dont feel that my daughter should have to miss out on her obligations. Also, step mom has started fights with me on a number of occassion at pick up and drop offs. I dont think that I should have to put up with that behavior from her and want to know if I have any choice in the matter if this should continue.
"We schedule her activities on our nights (e.g. gymnastics on Mondays only) so as not to interfere with BMs time. "
This sounds reasonable. However, in our situation BM schedules (over schedules) the SK's especially in events, groups, clubs and activities that land on our (or DH's if you prefer) time. Her motive is not so that we will have to bear the expense or spend all the time and effort because she is at every event, her time or not. Her point is to schedule the SK's so they have more "active" time and less "quality" time with DH. The other motive is daring us to say NO and disappoint an already angry kid. BM does ask if it's OK for them to attend something if it is on our time. I think it's a joke though. I have seen her schedule things prior to checking with us knowing that we HAVE TO say yes. Yes, I said have to say yes. In our situation if we do not say yes to everything life gets very unbearable.
I may get some nasty responses to what I am about to ask. Please don't take this personally as I don't really know any of you. This may not be the case for you, but I know it happens way to often. I think too often SK's come with a schedule that has not been discussed or agreed upon and then the parents in the other house are supposed to snap to when adhering to the child's schedule without regard to the schedule of the home and everyone else in it. Could this be the case? Are SM and Dad involved in the decision making process of this or these kid's schedule?
Does that make sense?
I agree with the suggestion. I would contact them and say "Daughter has ABC activity that falls on your time. I would be happy to take/pick-up if the schedule does not work for you."
We have not enrolled the SK's in anything that would require a weekend commitment. We've had them in Martial Arts, gymnastics, dance, volleyball, but those all occur during the week. The only time there was a conflict was just last weekend. OSD had to miss her track meet b/c it was her mothers weekend, and OSD did not tell her mother about it. She knew her BM would say no to taking her.
To answer your question, we schedule things to suit our family. We do not ask BM about any of it. We notify her of what the kids are doing sometimes, but she rarely ever asks. (This is a BM whose only contact with her children is EOWE. Very rarely will she call mid-visitation to ask how they are doing or talk to them).
We do not bother signing the kids up for activities that involve weekends for a few reasons. 1) They are gone sometimes EOWE. 2) I work every Sunday, and do not have time to take them to and from practice and/or games. 3) FH is on call every third weekend, which can be at anytime, day or night. None of us have time. So it's just not feasible for us. But we do not expect BM to snap to and change her weekend around to accomodate her children's sport schedules. I don't think it's fair to expect that from the other parent unless both parties agree to said activity.
In your situation it sounds like BM is not involved very much. I have noticed that BM's go one of two ways after a divorce. They either become (or stay) disinterested in their children or become (as in our case) absolutely obsessed with their children. Being on this side of the fence your side looks much more attractive. I'm sure it's not any easier over there on your side, just different.
I enjoy not having BM in my life. I enjoy not having to deal with or see her often. But sometimes I wish she was more active with the children just so I can get a break sometimes, you know?
But you're right. I'd rather have a disinterested BM than an obnoxiously interfering one.
I appreciate all of the advice but I think that our situations are perhaps to different to get my point across effectively. My daughter is a teenager and the team obligations that she has are SCHOOL related. I do not make the schedules nor can I control whos "time it is". My daughter would have to drop these functions all together in order for it not to interfere with Dad's time. They refuse to help out or be a part of her acedemic life. They want her there when it is there time and thats where it ends. Like I said before, I am also a step mother so I know how it is from a step mom point of view.
I understand this is not an agreed upon, extra activity, but rather an obligation of school.
Again....would you be able to take her and pick her up on their time and could you offer? My understanding was that you were concerned about her attending and not an issue with her being at Dad's, right?
Do they not want her involved or do they just not want to put in the effort of transportation and time spent?
SMs view it as the BM should drop her off with them if dad isn't around, she understands that. Then there are some SMs that say it ain't my kid & I'm not your babysitter, if dad isn't available then the kid)s) don't need to come. Then there is the BM side to it. It sounds like dropping her off with SM when her dad isn't there is making her daughter miss her school related activities and she is asking if dad isn't there anyway, why should she drop her off with SM & make her miss practice.
"You never realize how short a month is until you pay child support"
The kids are making a lot of the decisions, not the parents.
Before we switched from shared to us have FC, BM would not adhere to any extra curricular event SD had on her day. She would agree that SD could sign up, then after we paid for it she would refuse to take SD to any practices, take her out to eat or to movies instead saying, "Now THAT was more fun that boring old basketball practice, wasn't it?" Eventually SD would miss so much she'd drop out complaining about not being very good. BM also would try to play SD's asthma card, and now that we have been able to let SD have a say in what sports she participates in the past couple years, asthma isn't even factoring in at all.
I don't know what that was all about with BM, but once we had FC, SD went nuts signing up for any and every thing, and BM was pleased as punch to be able to pick her up later or drop her off for things and not even have to spend time with her. Sad but true.
Athletic, artistic, or otherwise engaged teens have practice/game/event schedules that are CRAZY. I don't think it's fair to hold them back b/c it interferes with someone's time. I do think both parents have to discuss what they can get them to, or how many things they can be involved in, just like they would if they were all in the same house. But when I can't get my sons to a ball game, or DH is unavailable, I consult exH and SM to see if either of them can do it, OR have BSs call coaches or teammates for rides. My sons love baseball and I think every kid should have the chance to do something like that. Not 20 things at once, but at least one or two now and then.
I have always wanted to tell BM (but can't since she won't even acknowledge I exist)
It's NOT your day or our day, every day is SD's day and she shares them with you or with us!
"To be, or not to be: that is the question:
Whether 'tis nobler in the mind to suffer
The slings and arrows of outrageous fortune,
Or to take arms against a sea of troubles,
And by opposing end them?" ~Hamlet Act III scene I
I hear you, CrystalRE. I think your ex and his wife should be more willing to put your daughter first. It's wonderful that your daughter is involved at school. Her parents (all of them) should accommodate her needs and go watch a game instead of expecting her to miss it. My SD is very active in her middle school, and even though it's sometimes inconvenient, we often give up our time or plans so she can do what she needs to do. It's part of parenting. We'd do it if she lived with us; I have a BS who also keeps us hopping, but we love it!
The point of stating the fact that I too am a step mother is to try and convey the fact that I also understand her position in this whole thing. I live the SM life on a daily basis so my intention is not to alienate from my daughter. Im sure that you can all understand how frustrating it is for me to have my daughter wanting me to advocate for her and not be able to because, quite frankly, my exhusband and his new wife dont care whats best for her. All that concerns them is that her life not cause disruption in theirs. Parenting is never easy...there are constant disruptions and I dont get why they wont accept that. A great deal of the problem is that they REFUSE to do anything at all for her....including transport her, show up to any activites, etc. There is also an issue with SM picking fights with me about crazy stuff in front of my daughter that also makes me apprehensive but Im a big girl and I can deal with that as long as she is good to my daughter.
Thanks to all! I feel better getting feedback from others. We have had constant drama for 4+ years from the SK's BM but the "my ex" drama is fairly new
live from her school? Can your daughter take the bus to get to her practices?
I know what a juggling act it can be with kids and extra curricular activities (I have 2 BD's). My Dh and I and my exH and his wife would always work out who would be where... I can also understand your exH wanting your BD to spend some time with her SM - BUT - it's going to get him absolutely no where when your BD is fed up and resentful of the two of them for missing out on her activities.
If he is not picking up your Daughter then he should arrange for alternative transportation to get her to visitation.
So, I would not drop your Daughter off for visitation.
And under no circumstance would I tolerate a kid missing school for visitation.
Our Judgement is very clear that visitation begins when school is over on the first day of visitation and the child must be back home the day before school starts whether it is EOWE visitation or longer periods in a long distance visitation situation.
Extracurriculars are not specifically covered by the/our CO but we are adamant that visitation not interfere with his friendships or extracurriculars. We never have and never will deny visitation but we have informed THEM that he will not be available to start a visitation until his (SS's)extracurricular activities are done (eg... Hawaii Band Trip, Leadership Seminars, JROTC camp, etc ....). THEY get the full visitation time but not necessarily the start date they want. It is after all about the Kid and not them or us for that matter.
holly228301, I am glad someone else had the same reaction to this post as I did. I CAN'T imagine the message of entitlement it sends to a kid. "Everything you do is important. We will put everything on hold until the time is right for you." Yikes!
The SK's in my house don't miss out on anything! If there is a party or activity that lands on our time they always call to make sure it works in our house, with our schedule and to basically give us fair warning. Guess what? It always works out....FOR EVERYONE! It's common courtesy and respect we give each other.
Keep in mind that under no circumstance would I either deny or condone denial of visitation. Nor did a say that friends or extracurriculars were more important than a father/mother or time with any other family member. Not that my SS's BioDad qualifies as a Father. What I am saying is that the child's school is a priority. Our Judgement is very clear that visitation cannot cause our Son to miss school. School is the priority that the Judge set in our CO. We cannot cause him to miss school, nor can BioDad.
Extracurriculars and friends, though in our case only addressed in the supplemental rules of county of jurisdiction, can be worked with so as to keep visitation schedules and allow the child to participate in teams, etc.... Since my Son has not lived in the same state that BioDad resides in since he was 15mos old we have been on a long distance visitation schedule (5wks summer, 1wk Winter, 1wk Spring break) so we have not had to deal with a EOWE type situation. Which I am sure is more challenging than a long distance situation.
So, we have not had to deal with our Son missing school or having to miss extracurricular activities due to EOWE drama. The only impact extracurriculars have had on visitation is to limit the start dates of summer visitation. They have not, nor should they deny BioDad and my So visitation time together. (Not that I should really give a crap since BioDad rarely see's my Son when he is THERE on visitation. BioPaternalGrandMa is the one that sees my Son while he is on visitation.)
The only time my Son has missed visitation time with BioDad and the SpermFamily (in more than 15 years) is when THEY choose not to take it. On several occasions we have given up a significant percentage of our holiday time,summer time with our Son and paid a significant amount of money out of our pockets so that our Son can see his BioDad/Sibs/SpermFamily when they have had financial difficulty meeting their obligations to pay for half of visitation travel expenses.
I don't see what is wrong with the NCP picking the kid up from Sports Practice on the first day of visitation or returning the kid to a practice at the end of visitation rather than pulling the kid out of school early and missing part of school and/or practices.
I think the key is that both sets of Parents have to work from the perspective that the Kid is the priority and modify schedules accordingly so that the visitation judgement is complied with and the kids gets to participate as much as possible in their life's activities.
Things are different with a long distance situation. I guess I didn't realize that was the case for you. My reaction stems mostly from our situation with 3 EOWE entitlement monsters and a narcissistic BM.
However, I think EOW/EOWE visitation would be much more difficult and offer much more opportunity for miscommunication or manipulation to cause problems.
I have no experience with the EOW/EOWE situation but intuitively it would seem to be much more difficult to deal with.
With long distance visitation there is not nearly as much opportunity for there to be problems with extracurriculars and friends interfering with visitation with BioDad/BioMom as there is with a situation where both of the blended families live near enough for EOW/EOWE to apply.
I am not sorry that we have never had to deal with that situation. BioDad and his Mother would be significantly more difficult to deal with if they lived near by. They are manipulative enough when they live on the opposite coast.
be reasonable in accommodating the friendships and interests of teens subject to a visitation order.
Sec 6.9.4 A child IS NOT permitted to determine whether he or she visits the (NCP). However, older teenagers are often involved in their own activities and are unable (or unwilling) to spend time with their parents on a regular schedule as they did when they were younger. Both parents must be considerate of older teenagers and recognize that they wish (and need) to spend more time with their peers rather than their parents. Parents will need to make adjustments to accommodate these life changes.
Yes, I did say "we are adamant that visitation not interfere with his friendships or extracurriculars." and I also said repeatedly that we never have and never will deny visitation. What we have and will continue to do is make sure that we minimize the adverse impact visitation has on his life as a young adult. Had we not occasionally managed the start dates of his visitation he would have missed several life enriching activities over the past 15+ years (band trips and competitions, state football playoffs and finals... they lost in the championship game, international vacations which he received academic credit for, etc....)
Since we are on a long distance visitation schedule we are talking no more than an half-a-dozen incidents of negotiated visitation START dates in his entire life. Never has visitation been reduced or denied. The only visitation that has been missed was at their request, not ours. As I have also said repeatedly, on several occasions we have given up our holiday/vacation/summer time with the Skid to accommodate their financial limitations in paying for visitation travel and even covered far more than 50% of the travel expenses for multiple visitations.
I committed to him and his Mom years ago that I would never deny him a relationship with his BioDad and the SpermFamily including paying for their visitation travel costs if it became necessary.
His relationship with them and exposure to their toothless idiot crap makes him appreciate his regular life far more.
The facts remain the facts in this discussion and they are not good or bad. They are just the facts.
I'm sorry that my post inspired a heated debate but appreciate all of your great feedback. I was shocked to read Wicked's response "Everything you do is important and we will put everything on hold until the time is right for you". Forgive me if I think that everything my daughter does IS important! I am not regretful in the least that I expect my ex husband to actually be a parent and do things for his child that benefit her. I think it is completley ridiculous that he cannot even take an hour out of his time to do something for her. After all they drag her around EOW to Keno clubs, parties, R rated movies, etc. because that is what they have planned. I think the problem in my situation is that HE feels a sense of entitlement and does not want to change his life style for his growing child! It is not now, nor has it ever been her fault that we divorced! I firmly believe that to be a good parent you have to make sacrifices and it seems like the only ones making sacrifices are my daughter and I and he is doing everything he can to make life more difficult for both of us.
To help you understand the severity of the situation....last summer my daughter's team made it to tournaments for softball...they won all the way through the final game. He never once called to see how the games were going or when she would be finished but went ahead and scheduled vacation to conflict with the championship game. Anyone with kids in sports knows how important on opprotunity like this is but he wasnt going to let her play because HE HAD PLANS AND HE WASNT GOING TO CHANGE THEM EVEN ONE DAY! I had to drive my daughter 9 hours to their vacationing spot just so that she could play in the game.
I understand your reaction to my post. Let me explain my situation. DH and BM have rendered my SK's useless without them. It's appalling. I posted another blog "Would you like your SK's if" I said I would not. However, I feel the same as many do that if they were not coddled by their parents, if they were not put on a pedestal 24/7 above EVERYTHING else, etc. I probably would.
DH goes to everything on his time and her time and so does BM. One day SD12 had to do testing in self defense (on DH's day) and she couldn't do it because Mommy forgot the time and wasn't there to watch her. She literally COULDN'T do it! Ironic, isn't it? Self Defense and she could test without both parents there? How is this kid going to defend herself? I find that to be horrible for the kid. "Everything you do is SO important both Mommy and Daddy will leave hours of WORK to come watch you for 6-7 minutes" I stand behind my belief that it sends a bad message.
Yes, I have children. And, yes, it kills me to go out on a date (rare) with DH knowing they want to go with us and have fun too. I want them to know that we deserve time together alone and that when they have girlfriends and wives in the future that they should put in the effort it takes to have a relationship. Also, that sometimes you need to be there for and take care of yourself by yourself. I have NEVER asked DH not to go to an event of one of the SK's and I wouldn't. I have pointed out what it has done to cripple their emotionally maturity.
I think a lot of misunderstandings on ST are about not realizing the history of the poster. My situation and Rags situation are entirely different. Do you read my response to Rags?
I think this post like many has turned into how we feel about peoples actions more then how to deal with them.
The Step issue is so highly charged we just can't help but get sucked in and our emotions explode.
CrystalRE:
Your SM gives SM's a bad name.
I'm sorry your EH is such a self-centered dipity-do dah
I would offer to take her yourself if they will let you. It's not her fault and yes she should absolutely attend those events they will not take her too.
Sorry I hijacked your post. Please forgive me. LOL
After my post to CrystalRE I don't have much time to type. So, thank you for saying what I am thinking about this whole thing. I feel just as you assume and just as you.
....when I said that I am also a step mother. I see it from both points of view and I think it is wrong to be so selfish. I rearrange my schedule on a daily basis so that my bio daughter and step daughters get the most out of their lives. I dont think it is too much to ask that my ex does the same once or twice a month.
Thank you for the "heated debate". I thought I was done with ST and could go on with my day, but as usual I was in the shower and after reading some posts here, ideas were flowing. That's why I am on ST to begin with. I am here to "plug all the holes" or to hear things I may not have thought of. Even when I disagree with a post or poster, later I find myself drifting back to the boards and realizing that even though I may not have agreed as a first reaction, really there were some points to consider.
This particular thread has confirmed for me that DH and I need to get back in the game (after being bludgeoned by BM) and set down some laws again. BM is currently in the throws of a huge PAS campaign. She is trying to keep the SK's away from me and DH and 1/2 sibs are just a bonus. She is too far gone to realize that the ones she is hurting most are HER kids.
This website has been a huge help to me! Im not always the greatest advice giver but I try my best and really appreciate being able to "think out loud" with people who are experienced with SK's!
Not if its not in the court
Not if its not in the court order. Thats generally a decision you work out personally unless it is addressed in court documents. Your exH can ask for it in court, its not guaranteed, but until its address you are not obligated IF he is not going to be there for visitation at all. If he will be around some of the time during his parenting time, then yes. Its up to him who he leaves the daughter with during his time.
"You never realize how short a month is until you pay child support"
no
If it's not in the court order..why should you be obligated?
In my case, I get along fine with my BD stepmom, I have no problems dropping BD off with her..but if it was his XG I NEVER would have.
"He grew up in my heart, not my belly"
I dont have a problem with
I dont have a problem with her but its getting to the point that he is making her skip school obligations to spend time with his new wife when he isnt even going to be there. My ex and I got along great until she came into the picture and now it is one dramatic confrontation after another.
SK's with SM
Do you have step children?
Yes. I have two step
Yes. I have two step daughters. I can tell you that I DO NOT contact their mother and start fights with her and I DO NOT keep them from their school obligations so they can spend time with me when their father is out of town.
I misread the original question
As far as our house goes...I am as good as Dad. WE are a parenting team and the SK's are here durring the scheduled time no matter who is home or with them. To do anything else would be to non-verbally agree that step-parents are not parents and they do not care.
Is there a problem with your BK's stepmom or does she not want the responsibility?
I know in our case BM tried to have it specified in the court documents that the children were not to be with anyone (me) other than dad.
If he's not going to be
If he's not going to be there at all, I don't see why you would have to drop her off if it's not court ordered. If he just can't make it to pick her up, but will be home in a couple of hours, I don't see the problem with leaving her with her SM. It's totally up to you guys. Do you have ROFR? If you do, and you know your ex will be out of town, keep her.
On the other hand, I would have hated it if the BM did not allow me to see the kids while FH was deployed. I guess I am grateful that she did view me as free daycare EOWE while he was gone. It gave us time to bond with each other, w/o either parent's influence getting in the way. Does your BD get along with her SM? I would just be happy that my ex chose someone who is willing to care for my child regardless if he is there or not. Would you rather her willingly care for your daughter in her fathers absence, or would you prefer her to forbid your child to step foot in to her home if her father is not present? I'd go with the former.
The Problem Is...
...that her father keeps her from attending practices for sports, school obligations, etc. so that she can "spend time with him" and then my daughter tells me that he isnt even there. My daughter gets along fine with her step mother and I do not have a problem with step mom picking her up but my thought is that the visitation agreement is set up so that she can spend time with her father and if he isnt going to be there why does he have the right to force her to miss practices, etc.
I also have step children so I can see where it would be harmful for me to keep my daughter from seeing her step mom. That is not at all what I am trying to do but I dont feel that my daughter should have to miss out on her obligations. Also, step mom has started fights with me on a number of occassion at pick up and drop offs. I dont think that I should have to put up with that behavior from her and want to know if I have any choice in the matter if this should continue.
Is there a big difference
b/w the two homes? Can you let them know that your BD has practice, and see if they would like to take her?
I am in the SM's position here
"We schedule her activities on our nights (e.g. gymnastics on Mondays only) so as not to interfere with BMs time. "
This sounds reasonable. However, in our situation BM schedules (over schedules) the SK's especially in events, groups, clubs and activities that land on our (or DH's if you prefer) time. Her motive is not so that we will have to bear the expense or spend all the time and effort because she is at every event, her time or not. Her point is to schedule the SK's so they have more "active" time and less "quality" time with DH. The other motive is daring us to say NO and disappoint an already angry kid. BM does ask if it's OK for them to attend something if it is on our time. I think it's a joke though. I have seen her schedule things prior to checking with us knowing that we HAVE TO say yes. Yes, I said have to say yes. In our situation if we do not say yes to everything life gets very unbearable.
I may get some nasty responses to what I am about to ask. Please don't take this personally as I don't really know any of you. This may not be the case for you, but I know it happens way to often. I think too often SK's come with a schedule that has not been discussed or agreed upon and then the parents in the other house are supposed to snap to when adhering to the child's schedule without regard to the schedule of the home and everyone else in it. Could this be the case? Are SM and Dad involved in the decision making process of this or these kid's schedule?
Does that make sense?
I agree with the suggestion. I would contact them and say "Daughter has ABC activity that falls on your time. I would be happy to take/pick-up if the schedule does not work for you."
As the SO of a CP,
We have not enrolled the SK's in anything that would require a weekend commitment. We've had them in Martial Arts, gymnastics, dance, volleyball, but those all occur during the week. The only time there was a conflict was just last weekend. OSD had to miss her track meet b/c it was her mothers weekend, and OSD did not tell her mother about it. She knew her BM would say no to taking her.
To answer your question, we schedule things to suit our family. We do not ask BM about any of it. We notify her of what the kids are doing sometimes, but she rarely ever asks. (This is a BM whose only contact with her children is EOWE. Very rarely will she call mid-visitation to ask how they are doing or talk to them).
We do not bother signing the kids up for activities that involve weekends for a few reasons. 1) They are gone sometimes EOWE. 2) I work every Sunday, and do not have time to take them to and from practice and/or games. 3) FH is on call every third weekend, which can be at anytime, day or night. None of us have time. So it's just not feasible for us. But we do not expect BM to snap to and change her weekend around to accomodate her children's sport schedules. I don't think it's fair to expect that from the other parent unless both parties agree to said activity.
In your situation it sounds
In your situation it sounds like BM is not involved very much. I have noticed that BM's go one of two ways after a divorce. They either become (or stay) disinterested in their children or become (as in our case) absolutely obsessed with their children. Being on this side of the fence your side looks much more attractive. I'm sure it's not any easier over there on your side, just different.
Eh....it's a toss up
I enjoy not having BM in my life. I enjoy not having to deal with or see her often. But sometimes I wish she was more active with the children just so I can get a break sometimes, you know?
But you're right. I'd rather have a disinterested BM than an obnoxiously interfering one.
Why doesn't SM
Take her to practice? Have you asked her to?
DISbelief~
~You have to BE crazy to UNDERSTAND crazy!~ ; )
Thanks....
I appreciate all of the advice but I think that our situations are perhaps to different to get my point across effectively. My daughter is a teenager and the team obligations that she has are SCHOOL related. I do not make the schedules nor can I control whos "time it is". My daughter would have to drop these functions all together in order for it not to interfere with Dad's time. They refuse to help out or be a part of her acedemic life. They want her there when it is there time and thats where it ends. Like I said before, I am also a step mother so I know how it is from a step mom point of view.
Obligations
I understand this is not an agreed upon, extra activity, but rather an obligation of school.
Again....would you be able to take her and pick her up on their time and could you offer? My understanding was that you were concerned about her attending and not an issue with her being at Dad's, right?
Do they not want her involved or do they just not want to put in the effort of transportation and time spent?
SMs view it as the BM should
SMs view it as the BM should drop her off with them if dad isn't around, she understands that. Then there are some SMs that say it ain't my kid & I'm not your babysitter, if dad isn't available then the kid)s) don't need to come. Then there is the BM side to it. It sounds like dropping her off with SM when her dad isn't there is making her daughter miss her school related activities and she is asking if dad isn't there anyway, why should she drop her off with SM & make her miss practice.
"You never realize how short a month is until you pay child support"
Thank you, Melissa!
You articulated my point PERFECTLY!
Yes once they are teens the kids are making a lot of the decisio
The kids are making a lot of the decisions, not the parents.
Before we switched from shared to us have FC, BM would not adhere to any extra curricular event SD had on her day. She would agree that SD could sign up, then after we paid for it she would refuse to take SD to any practices, take her out to eat or to movies instead saying, "Now THAT was more fun that boring old basketball practice, wasn't it?" Eventually SD would miss so much she'd drop out complaining about not being very good. BM also would try to play SD's asthma card, and now that we have been able to let SD have a say in what sports she participates in the past couple years, asthma isn't even factoring in at all.
I don't know what that was all about with BM, but once we had FC, SD went nuts signing up for any and every thing, and BM was pleased as punch to be able to pick her up later or drop her off for things and not even have to spend time with her. Sad but true.
Athletic, artistic, or otherwise engaged teens have practice/game/event schedules that are CRAZY. I don't think it's fair to hold them back b/c it interferes with someone's time. I do think both parents have to discuss what they can get them to, or how many things they can be involved in, just like they would if they were all in the same house. But when I can't get my sons to a ball game, or DH is unavailable, I consult exH and SM to see if either of them can do it, OR have BSs call coaches or teammates for rides. My sons love baseball and I think every kid should have the chance to do something like that. Not 20 things at once, but at least one or two now and then.
I have always wanted to tell BM (but can't since she won't even acknowledge I exist)
It's NOT your day or our day, every day is SD's day and she shares them with you or with us!
"To be, or not to be: that is the question:
Whether 'tis nobler in the mind to suffer
The slings and arrows of outrageous fortune,
Or to take arms against a sea of troubles,
And by opposing end them?" ~Hamlet Act III scene I
I hear you, CrystalRE. I
I hear you, CrystalRE. I think your ex and his wife should be more willing to put your daughter first. It's wonderful that your daughter is involved at school. Her parents (all of them) should accommodate her needs and go watch a game instead of expecting her to miss it. My SD is very active in her middle school, and even though it's sometimes inconvenient, we often give up our time or plans so she can do what she needs to do. It's part of parenting. We'd do it if she lived with us; I have a BS who also keeps us hopping, but we love it!
Thanks Everyone
The point of stating the fact that I too am a step mother is to try and convey the fact that I also understand her position in this whole thing. I live the SM life on a daily basis so my intention is not to alienate from my daughter. Im sure that you can all understand how frustrating it is for me to have my daughter wanting me to advocate for her and not be able to because, quite frankly, my exhusband and his new wife dont care whats best for her. All that concerns them is that her life not cause disruption in theirs. Parenting is never easy...there are constant disruptions and I dont get why they wont accept that. A great deal of the problem is that they REFUSE to do anything at all for her....including transport her, show up to any activites, etc. There is also an issue with SM picking fights with me about crazy stuff in front of my daughter that also makes me apprehensive but Im a big girl and I can deal with that as long as she is good to my daughter.
Thanks to all! I feel better getting feedback from others. We have had constant drama for 4+ years from the SK's BM but the "my ex" drama is fairly new
Maybe I missed it somewhere here, but
how old is your BD, and what grade is she in?
She is going to be 14 in
She is going to be 14 in September and going into the 8th grade.
How far does your exH
live from her school? Can your daughter take the bus to get to her practices?
I know what a juggling act it can be with kids and extra curricular activities (I have 2 BD's). My Dh and I and my exH and his wife would always work out who would be where... I can also understand your exH wanting your BD to spend some time with her SM - BUT - it's going to get him absolutely no where when your BD is fed up and resentful of the two of them for missing out on her activities.
Has your BD said anything to her father?
Most COs require a parent to transport the kid to their location
If he is not picking up your Daughter then he should arrange for alternative transportation to get her to visitation.
So, I would not drop your Daughter off for visitation.
And under no circumstance would I tolerate a kid missing school for visitation.
Our Judgement is very clear that visitation begins when school is over on the first day of visitation and the child must be back home the day before school starts whether it is EOWE visitation or longer periods in a long distance visitation situation.
Extracurriculars are not specifically covered by the/our CO but we are adamant that visitation not interfere with his friendships or extracurriculars. We never have and never will deny visitation but we have informed THEM that he will not be available to start a visitation until his (SS's)extracurricular activities are done (eg... Hawaii Band Trip, Leadership Seminars, JROTC camp, etc ....). THEY get the full visitation time but not necessarily the start date they want. It is after all about the Kid and not them or us for that matter.
Best regards,
holly228301, I am glad
holly228301, I am glad someone else had the same reaction to this post as I did. I CAN'T imagine the message of entitlement it sends to a kid. "Everything you do is important. We will put everything on hold until the time is right for you." Yikes!
The SK's in my house don't miss out on anything! If there is a party or activity that lands on our time they always call to make sure it works in our house, with our schedule and to basically give us fair warning. Guess what? It always works out....FOR EVERYONE! It's common courtesy and respect we give each other.
H&W, I understand your responses to my post.
Keep in mind that under no circumstance would I either deny or condone denial of visitation. Nor did a say that friends or extracurriculars were more important than a father/mother or time with any other family member. Not that my SS's BioDad qualifies as a Father. What I am saying is that the child's school is a priority. Our Judgement is very clear that visitation cannot cause our Son to miss school. School is the priority that the Judge set in our CO. We cannot cause him to miss school, nor can BioDad.
Extracurriculars and friends, though in our case only addressed in the supplemental rules of county of jurisdiction, can be worked with so as to keep visitation schedules and allow the child to participate in teams, etc.... Since my Son has not lived in the same state that BioDad resides in since he was 15mos old we have been on a long distance visitation schedule (5wks summer, 1wk Winter, 1wk Spring break) so we have not had to deal with a EOWE type situation. Which I am sure is more challenging than a long distance situation.
So, we have not had to deal with our Son missing school or having to miss extracurricular activities due to EOWE drama. The only impact extracurriculars have had on visitation is to limit the start dates of summer visitation. They have not, nor should they deny BioDad and my So visitation time together. (Not that I should really give a crap since BioDad rarely see's my Son when he is THERE on visitation. BioPaternalGrandMa is the one that sees my Son while he is on visitation.)
The only time my Son has missed visitation time with BioDad and the SpermFamily (in more than 15 years) is when THEY choose not to take it. On several occasions we have given up a significant percentage of our holiday time,summer time with our Son and paid a significant amount of money out of our pockets so that our Son can see his BioDad/Sibs/SpermFamily when they have had financial difficulty meeting their obligations to pay for half of visitation travel expenses.
I don't see what is wrong with the NCP picking the kid up from Sports Practice on the first day of visitation or returning the kid to a practice at the end of visitation rather than pulling the kid out of school early and missing part of school and/or practices.
I think the key is that both sets of Parents have to work from the perspective that the Kid is the priority and modify schedules accordingly so that the visitation judgement is complied with and the kids gets to participate as much as possible in their life's activities.
Just my thoughts of course.
Best regards,
Rags
Things are different with a long distance situation. I guess I didn't realize that was the case for you. My reaction stems mostly from our situation with 3 EOWE entitlement monsters and a narcissistic BM.
Blended family visitation is a challenge under any circumstance.
However, I think EOW/EOWE visitation would be much more difficult and offer much more opportunity for miscommunication or manipulation to cause problems.
I have no experience with the EOW/EOWE situation but intuitively it would seem to be much more difficult to deal with.
With long distance visitation there is not nearly as much opportunity for there to be problems with extracurriculars and friends interfering with visitation with BioDad/BioMom as there is with a situation where both of the blended families live near enough for EOW/EOWE to apply.
I am not sorry that we have never had to deal with that situation. BioDad and his Mother would be significantly more difficult to deal with if they lived near by. They are manipulative enough when they live on the opposite coast.
Best regards,
Supplemental guidelines clearly indicate that parents should
be reasonable in accommodating the friendships and interests of teens subject to a visitation order.
Sec 6.9.4 A child IS NOT permitted to determine whether he or she visits the (NCP). However, older teenagers are often involved in their own activities and are unable (or unwilling) to spend time with their parents on a regular schedule as they did when they were younger. Both parents must be considerate of older teenagers and recognize that they wish (and need) to spend more time with their peers rather than their parents. Parents will need to make adjustments to accommodate these life changes.
Yes, I did say "we are adamant that visitation not interfere with his friendships or extracurriculars." and I also said repeatedly that we never have and never will deny visitation. What we have and will continue to do is make sure that we minimize the adverse impact visitation has on his life as a young adult. Had we not occasionally managed the start dates of his visitation he would have missed several life enriching activities over the past 15+ years (band trips and competitions, state football playoffs and finals... they lost in the championship game, international vacations which he received academic credit for, etc....)
Since we are on a long distance visitation schedule we are talking no more than an half-a-dozen incidents of negotiated visitation START dates in his entire life. Never has visitation been reduced or denied. The only visitation that has been missed was at their request, not ours. As I have also said repeatedly, on several occasions we have given up our holiday/vacation/summer time with the Skid to accommodate their financial limitations in paying for visitation travel and even covered far more than 50% of the travel expenses for multiple visitations.
I committed to him and his Mom years ago that I would never deny him a relationship with his BioDad and the SpermFamily including paying for their visitation travel costs if it became necessary.
His relationship with them and exposure to their toothless idiot crap makes him appreciate his regular life far more.
The facts remain the facts in this discussion and they are not good or bad. They are just the facts.
Best regards,
WOW!
I'm sorry that my post inspired a heated debate but appreciate all of your great feedback. I was shocked to read Wicked's response "Everything you do is important and we will put everything on hold until the time is right for you". Forgive me if I think that everything my daughter does IS important! I am not regretful in the least that I expect my ex husband to actually be a parent and do things for his child that benefit her. I think it is completley ridiculous that he cannot even take an hour out of his time to do something for her. After all they drag her around EOW to Keno clubs, parties, R rated movies, etc. because that is what they have planned. I think the problem in my situation is that HE feels a sense of entitlement and does not want to change his life style for his growing child! It is not now, nor has it ever been her fault that we divorced! I firmly believe that to be a good parent you have to make sacrifices and it seems like the only ones making sacrifices are my daughter and I and he is doing everything he can to make life more difficult for both of us.
To help you understand the severity of the situation....last summer my daughter's team made it to tournaments for softball...they won all the way through the final game. He never once called to see how the games were going or when she would be finished but went ahead and scheduled vacation to conflict with the championship game. Anyone with kids in sports knows how important on opprotunity like this is but he wasnt going to let her play because HE HAD PLANS AND HE WASNT GOING TO CHANGE THEM EVEN ONE DAY! I had to drive my daughter 9 hours to their vacationing spot just so that she could play in the game.
CrystalRE
I understand your reaction to my post. Let me explain my situation. DH and BM have rendered my SK's useless without them. It's appalling. I posted another blog "Would you like your SK's if" I said I would not. However, I feel the same as many do that if they were not coddled by their parents, if they were not put on a pedestal 24/7 above EVERYTHING else, etc. I probably would.
DH goes to everything on his time and her time and so does BM. One day SD12 had to do testing in self defense (on DH's day) and she couldn't do it because Mommy forgot the time and wasn't there to watch her. She literally COULDN'T do it! Ironic, isn't it? Self Defense and she could test without both parents there? How is this kid going to defend herself? I find that to be horrible for the kid. "Everything you do is SO important both Mommy and Daddy will leave hours of WORK to come watch you for 6-7 minutes" I stand behind my belief that it sends a bad message.
Yes, I have children. And, yes, it kills me to go out on a date (rare) with DH knowing they want to go with us and have fun too. I want them to know that we deserve time together alone and that when they have girlfriends and wives in the future that they should put in the effort it takes to have a relationship. Also, that sometimes you need to be there for and take care of yourself by yourself. I have NEVER asked DH not to go to an event of one of the SK's and I wouldn't. I have pointed out what it has done to cripple their emotionally maturity.
I think a lot of misunderstandings on ST are about not realizing the history of the poster. My situation and Rags situation are entirely different. Do you read my response to Rags?
I think this post like many
I think this post like many has turned into how we feel about peoples actions more then how to deal with them.
The Step issue is so highly charged we just can't help but get sucked in and our emotions explode.
CrystalRE:
Your SM gives SM's a bad name.
I'm sorry your EH is such a self-centered dipity-do dah
I would offer to take her yourself if they will let you. It's not her fault and yes she should absolutely attend those events they will not take her too.
Sorry I hijacked your post. Please forgive me.
LOL
Thank you holly
After my post to CrystalRE I don't have much time to type. So, thank you for saying what I am thinking about this whole thing. I feel just as you assume and just as you.
This Is The Point I Was Trying To Make
....when I said that I am also a step mother. I see it from both points of view and I think it is wrong to be so selfish. I rearrange my schedule on a daily basis so that my bio daughter and step daughters get the most out of their lives. I dont think it is too much to ask that my ex does the same once or twice a month.
CrystalRE
Thank you for the "heated debate". I thought I was done with ST and could go on with my day, but as usual I was in the shower and after reading some posts here, ideas were flowing. That's why I am on ST to begin with. I am here to "plug all the holes" or to hear things I may not have thought of. Even when I disagree with a post or poster, later I find myself drifting back to the boards and realizing that even though I may not have agreed as a first reaction, really there were some points to consider.
This particular thread has confirmed for me that DH and I need to get back in the game (after being bludgeoned by BM) and set down some laws again. BM is currently in the throws of a huge PAS campaign. She is trying to keep the SK's away from me and DH and 1/2 sibs are just a bonus. She is too far gone to realize that the ones she is hurting most are HER kids.
I Agree
This website has been a huge help to me! Im not always the greatest advice giver but I try my best and really appreciate being able to "think out loud" with people who are experienced with SK's!