I wasn't ignoring you on my last post
I read the advice offered and I needed to consider what my wife is going through and what concessions I need to make. So I chewed on what to do for a while and I talked to my brother. What is boils down to is, she wants me to stop all extra money to my ex wife and sell the house or charge my ex market rent. If I do this my kids will not have the same standard of living they do now. It will also give my step kids a higher standard of living on my dime then my own children, not that I am considering that when deciding what to do but it chaps my ass that I would be paying for another mans children to live better then my own.
The concessions I have decided I can live with are,
* I will pay for private school, uniforms and extra curricular activities directly from now on instead of depending on my ex to give me the registration forms and fee list and me giving her a check to pay. I'll just take the forms and pay them myself. Instead of giving a check to my ex when the kids need something extra like new gear for activity, I will take them shopping and buy it myself.
* Concerning the house, I have decided that when I renew her lease I will send a letter reminding her that the lease will not be renewed when our youngest turns 25, or our last child moves out or finishes graduate school, which ever comes first. My ex knows this is the deal but i want my wife to see me reminding her so that she sees an end date. Using age 25 allows my youngest a 4 yr degree and a 2 yr masters program.
*I will cut, decrease my after child support monies by half. I send $1000 more than required so now it will be $500. Since I will be buying most of what my kids need anyway I don't believe this will affect their standard of living. I will be watching closely to see if I can cut out the remaining $500 with out it changing their standard of living when I readdress that in 6 months.
*In return, I want my wife to file for child support and hold her ex responsible for his children. I'm not going to cut back on my children financially while caring for another mans children. If she doesn't file for child support and enforce it then I will re-instate my extra payment to my kids.
* I do not plan on paying my wifes bills. I will continue to pay our home bills but my wife will have to pay her own.
This is what I am bringing to therapy Wednesday. We were told to think about what our spouse is upset about and come up with a compromise. What do you think?
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Comments
She hates her ex and is
She hates her ex and is afraid that if he pays he plays. She believes if he has to pay for his kids he will want to see them. I am not connected with my ex. I just want what is best for my kids. When they are done with school and on their own she gets nothing. She gets 25% of the house due to the divorce settlement when we sell it but that is it.
She isn't hellbent on him not
She isn't hellbent on him not she just doesn't want to remind him they exist. He has a history of coming around a while and then disappearing for years. She doesn't want to put them through that again. I see her point but he needs to be paying for them.
Honestly your wife needs to
Honestly your wife needs to do what she can to encourage the visitation. Let it be all on the Father for choosing NOT to see the kids. Those kids know they have a dad who isn't around. And as others have said , CS and Visitation are not hand in hand. She needs to file for CS and start holding the father accountable for the children he brought into the world.
That is what I am pushing her
That is what I am pushing her to do.
so, you're married to a GUBM?
so, you're married to a GUBM?
Nice...
it isn't up to HER to decide whether or not dad can see his kids/wants to see his kids/whatever.
I guess she could have
I guess she could have stalked him and thrown the kids at him to ensure he saw them. I'll let her know she failed by not doing that. What does GUMB stand for? Dumb?
it's GUBM - golden uterus bio
it's GUBM - golden uterus bio mom.
Yeah, that is exactly what I was saying, she should throw the kids through his window.
You know, for a dude who is paying his ex wife until his kids GET GRADUATE DEGREES, including paying her lease until then, you seem to think you're pretty smart.
I guess you're just GUMB, huh?
She just needs to file for CS
She just needs to file for CS and if that triggers the Father into wanting visitation , then so be it. Unless he is a monster , those kids deserve their father. The comment about your wife not wanting to put her kids through him showing up and then leaving again I think is what concerns most people - it sounds like she just wants him 100% out of the picture.
My DD's biofather was never around - all his choice. I made sure that I was never the reason and I never said a bad word to her about him. She was a teenager when he contacted me and wanted to mend fences with her. I encouraged my DD to , in the very least, email him and now they communicate from time to time.
ding ding ding ding!!
ding ding ding ding!!
Dad walked away from his kids
Dad walked away from his kids and she isn't a GUMB for not chasing after him and demanding he parent. Not inviting trouble into her home also doesn't make her a GUMB. Why all the hate for a woman who isn't perusing her ex and demanding money and time?
If there were no you who
If there were no you who helps support the stepkids home by supplying the paid for house and household bills, would your wife have no choice whether she went after her ex for CS? Is being married to you and having your finances to supplement her much lower income (than yours) , what is allowing her to block bio-dad from access by not pursuing his children CS.
She has never blocked access.
She has never blocked access.
Ok, so she didn't block
Ok, so she didn't block access.
The question still remains, If you weren't there supporting and supplementing her and her children what would she do?
From what I've read, she wants you to only pay court ordered CS, stop paying for all your kids extras and charge your exW (BM) market value rent for the home she shares with your children.
All those demands are things she's not will to do for herself. She gets no CS, never mind extras and you cover most of her living expenses.
She's definitely a GUBM and the kids she expects you to support aren't even yours!
Definitely not connected.
Definitely not connected. The Girhippo PASed out all three of Chef's kids. No play but boy, oh , boy does he ever PAY (massive non-arrears CS)!
sounds reasonable but are you
sounds reasonable but are you sure you want to stay with this woman?
I would not bother writing my Ex a new letter to please a jealous current wife, I'm sorry this was my agreement with divorcing and has nothing to do with your current wife, it's not your fault she's not doing anything to get CS from her Ex.
I agree with paying directly for your children and if she can't afford her kids going to private school like yours, it's not your problem.... make this very clear.
Regarding your after CS contributions.... why not simply keep it at what it currently is but instead of giving it to Ex wife or kids, put it in an savings/investment account for college fees or something like that,
and what about the whole thing of when your kids can be over and when not....
Totally forgot about that one
Totally forgot about that one lol.... in his shoes I would go extreme and get snipped..
sorry but this woman is going to get pregnant if he's not wake up
My ex wife castrated me after
My ex wife castrated me after our youngest was born.
I find the word castrated
I find the word castrated best suits what she did to me.
and yet, you continued to
and yet, you continued to over pay support, will pay her lease until your youngest turns 25. She's not Lorena Bobbitt, and you willingly put yourself in this position.
masochist much??
Her lease? He owns the home
Her lease? He owns the home outright and leases it to her, I am assuming so she can't claim squatters rights when he boots her. It doesn't cost him anything. I don't get the 25 thing either but it's his life and I think I read it was part of the divorce decree.
from his original post - "
from his original post -
" Concerning the house, I have decided that when I renew her lease I will send a letter reminding her that the lease will not be renewed when our youngest turns 25, or our last child moves out or finishes graduate school, which ever comes first. My ex knows this is the deal but i want my wife to see me reminding her so that she sees an end date. Using age 25 allows my youngest a 4 yr degree and a 2 yr masters program."
Yes but he said he owns the
Yes but he said he owns the house outright. He renews her lease as in he sends her a new one each year so she can't claim squatters rights. At least that is what I took it to mean. He has said more than once he owns the house.
While I believe that moms
While I believe that moms are just as capable of contributing to the financial well being of their kids by working.
the fact that OP is willing to support his XW when the precious darlings are ADULTS IN GRADUATE SCHOOL is beyond ridiculous.
What is with all these adults wanting to live in their parents' houses?
I would have DIED than move back in with my parents while I was in college. I had a an apartment, a job, I was MOVING FORWARD, not hanging around my hometown.
The fact that anyone would think that a 25 year old ADULT needs access to the familial home is just stupid. I mean, hell, if the goes back to college for sophomore year and stays at school during the summers, mom gets to live in the house kid free for 6 more years. Kid won't have lived there for 6 years, but mom gets to ?
Dumb. Just dumb.
an end date 11 years from
an end date 11 years from now....that's just dumb.
You wouldn't wait 11 years for her XH to pay up, why should she have to wait 11 years for your effed up enmeshment to end?
Nope - no way. Nuh uh.
I do love my wife and I want
I do love my wife and I want to try and make it work. I know that she sounds bad but thats just because I am posting our problems not our good times. Per the divorce decree I am responsible for college costs but I also get final say in what schools and programs they attend. If I disagree then I only fund 33.3%. If my son wants a business degree I will fund his education, if he wants a degree in womans history or something non self supporting after college he gets 33.3%. My kids are following our normal summer visitation where they live with me. My summer custody time allows my children to have one home during the school year and less upset to their daily routines while allowing me uninterrupted time to spend with them.
Og Gunner - something you
Og Gunner - something you forgot....
You last Will and testament - I hope your kids inherits everything you had before marrying this gold digging woman, and no you have no obligation to leave anything for the skids, I would not sell the BM house ever, rather rent it out, it's your kids future... if you sell it current wife will make sure she blows the money.. and your kids have nothing.
I truly think it's time you start acting on your last will and testament... current wife does not even need to know lol
either she's going to get pregnant or you will get some poison, prepare
My will leaves a majority to
My will leaves a majority to my children and our home and some monies to my wife. I don't see a reason to change my will at this time.
NAh if that's in order then
NAh if that's in order then keep it, but some times people forget something like this you know...
I think they have a prenup.
I think they have a prenup.
It works for me and yes, I
It works for me and yes, I find fair...however both your wife and many of the ladies here will scold you and rattle on and on about how it changes nothing. Basically the same money, you're just cutting the middleman out of the cash flow. But again, it's what you feel comfortable with and right for your own biological kids.
I've read this site for quite a while. Many would have no problem solely supporting their own bio-kids, some would even help support their stepchildren (or supplement the household bills where DH falls short), but I can't think of any who would gladly support their stepchild over their own child. Not a one. Yes, many who have 'our children' end up supporting all the children one way or the other, but that's not your case.
After they've found the CO
After they've found the CO demands a split and/or NCP must pay extra curricular above CS. And yes, giving directly to event or activity or taking kid shopping for whatever is the best way to handle that. Everyone then knows exactly the correct amount and that the cash is actually going for said expense.
But not nearly everyone advocates giving extra cash above CS order. That is an overstatement and there are plenty of blogs/forum post here as examples that never fails to turn into a hot debate. Yes, even the standard question of 'what' CS for?" or "what does CS cover".
Not going to debate with you LadyFace as I totally believe you've gone above and beyond for your stepkids. But that's not "nearly everyone" advocating for what I actually said in my above post.
Absolutely, I helped support
Absolutely, I helped support my skids before DH and I even moved in together. Also, one of the many reasons I've decided not to have my own bio children with DH is because skids suck up so much of our resources. There simply isn't enough left.
I think Gunner is proposing a reasonable compromise. I'd like to hear her counter and what she is going to do about not wanting his kids around.
Me too. I would even grocery
Me too. I would even grocery shop for him before leaving for the skid weekends when they didn't know we were dating...and pre-prep some good meals.
I actually do think that statistics would show that the majority of SMs support their skids in some way and do for them financially. Of course they feel frustration about it from time to time - who wouldn't? No one dreams of growing up and sharing finances with another household...it's just weird and uncomfortable. Venting about it here or wondering why BMs always seem to come up with more extras that are supposedly "for the kids" doesn't mean these women aren't giving and generous by nature.
That is interesting. I buy
That is interesting. I buy presents for birthdays and Christmas, and buy food weekly, that I cook for Skids, but that's about it. SO is really good about paying for everything to do with them.
For Munchkins birthday party, hosted by BM, he bought the cake, night-before snacks, sodas, and 4 pizzas, for during pool party. He does this every year. And he does all the back-to-school purchasing as well as winter coats, but I buy little things here and there, leggings, bathing suits, etc.
I think must of us SM's
I think must of us SM's either directly or indirectly help support our Skids. I don't buy anything for my SS's but I do provide a roof over their heads when they are at our house, their own rooms, beds, food, internet, etc. I provide all these things on my own which allows DH to pay his CS and pay for extra's when they come about.
I used to get livid about how much extra DH was giving to BM. Then he pointed out how my XH pays nothing and I didn't go after him. He had a point....kindof....
In my situation, I was able to support myself and my child without XH's or DH's help. I didn't need either of them to do it. Nor did I ask DH to help in paying for BS. Just the opposite, I helped DH by providing a roof over his head as well so he could afford to do extras.
DH finally got to the point on his own that he saw that BM was asking for excessive amounts of money and he started to limit it himself.
I will say it has slowed down a ton and even the SS's have stopped asking for as much money...all because DH started saying No.
What LF said. I have no
What LF said. I have no problem with my DH paying for things that he wants for the skids directly, when he has the funds. I even support him in this when he doesn't, very often. I become frustrated when BM chooses things for skids unilaterally, not allowing DH any input, and then comes to us with her hand out. I would be LIVID if he handed her a check directly for undisclosed, undiscussed expenses "for the kids" — whether he had the money or not.
I have been saying from the beginning that I don't think his current wife is a gold-digger...and there's plenty of evidence to support that, including a pre-nup and the fact that she works full-time and covers household expenses. She doesn't seem like she only cares about money to me...just that she has some issues with how it's being handled in her own household. Guess what—legally, morally, and ethically, she actually should get a say on the finances. Any court and any counselor would agree with that. Gunner and his wife are MARRIED...that means something. But some jumped on that entitled gold-digger explanation and would not let it go, no matter how much subsequent info surfaced.
From what we see here, we now know some amounts and some specifics—and this is huge information.
Gunner is paying all fees and extras for his kids in the form of a check DIRECTLY to his Ex. I guess just taking her word about what they bought/need?
He is not charging her any rent, so she's living in the home that he pays the mortgage on for free.
In addition, he is handing her a CS check that is $1000 over the CO amount - for what, exactly? She has a free place to live and he covers all school and extracurricular kid expenses. What additional things does she need for them at this point?
Of course in this situation, his current wife feels like he's supporting another woman...because he totally is. Wow.
Gunner - I think that this list sounds incredibly reasonable and I am so glad that you are gong to counseling and trying to work things out with your wife. I am also glad that you didn't listen to the hoard that jumped on the bandwagon and goaded you to throw your marriage over. Apparently, you should treat an ex who cheated on you with greater respect and consideration than you should treat your current wife, according to some. Incredible. I don't get that logic, and I'm glad that you are ignoring it. You haven't been around here long enough to know this, but there are actually many posters on here who aren't even stepmoms and like to hate on women in general and stepmoms specifically every chance they get. There are several who I have LITERALLY never seen take a stepmom's side on anything...to the point of absolute ridiculousness. For instance, there was a woman whose husband cheated on her with her close friend and kept his love child a secret for 8 years...while diverting money from their household for this kid he never saw. Then, the bio-mom decided he should have more of a role in the kid's life, so she surfaced...woman found out, became an instant stepmom...came here looking for support and understanding. Her husband wanted to have his visitation with this kid in their marital home. She had forgiven him for the cheating and the 8 years of deception regarding their finances...she was going to counseling and trying to make the marriage work. She just didn't think she could handle having his affair child in the home EOWE and was asking him to do visitation outside of their home. And you know what...many of the same posters who have been busy calling your wife a gold-digging, manipulative wh*** and other unsavory names raked her over the coals for not supporting her husband's relationship with this child. Seriously. Just saying that to give you some perspective and let you know that you may not be getting the unbiased advice you think you're getting.
I also say all this to say...I really hope it works out for you. This money thing was a huge deal - mostly because of what it represents. When you start to resent people, it makes their presence hard to tolerate...I think you may find this is what happened with your wife. She felt steamrolled and unheard about this issue...which made her start to resent your kids. Yes, that was wrong...that resentment was misplaced entirely...but it's also understandable. You may discover that, once you set up appropriate boundaries with your ex and you learn to communicate better with your current wife and give her more of a voice, her resentment of your kids will dissipate. This is what happened in my marriage, and I'm very glad it did because I truly love my husband but I was near a breaking point feeling like a non-entity in my own home.
Good luck to you!
Mwah!!! The feeling is mutual
Mwah!!! The feeling is mutual
I think his Divorce agreement
I think his Divorce agreement stipulates till youngest are 25...
Summers and school breaks. I
Summers and school breaks. I want them to have a home to come home to till they can make one of their own. It was my idea since that is when my brother finally finished up school and went on his own. Sometimes kids need a little extra time. The house is paid for and it cost me nothing to allow the extra time.
see this house... should be
see this house... should be inherited by your kids and not your wife or ex wife...
Your current house - current wife
"This" house, the one my kids
"This" house, the one my kids live in will be sold. It will add to my retirement savings nicely.
@Gunner - I simply don't get
@Gunner - I simply don't get it.... you sound like a clever man, future plans and all worked out, kids cared for , retirement not to shabby... you sound like a guy I would date at any time... clever and reasonable..
now the confusion sets in... WTF do you allow your wife to treat you lower then shit snake shadow.... are you so pussy whipped that you can't think straight when she's around... dammit man snap out of it...
and don't go back to looks, once a person has a beautiful hart it will show on the outside... so be-warned if you got there I will tell you to eff off...
This is new behavior from my
This is new behavior from my wife. I do think she is overwhelmed and now that she is in counseling I am hoping we can fix this. I've said my wife was out of my league and everyone assumed it was looks and her breast. It's her personality and the way she makes me laugh that makes me love her.
Gunner - I'm gonna slap that
Gunner - I'm gonna slap that rose color glasses of your eyes MR...
it's not new behavior - please belief me.... she simply could not pretend any more.... sorry to say, but I hope counseling helps her...
Really, Acra - I usually
Really, Acra - I usually agree with you but I think you're crazy on this one. Did you read everything he was doing for his Ex? In the form of checks written out directly to her? This would drive ANY current wife crazy. Whether Gunner sticks with this marriage or not, he needs to establish some better boundaries with his Ex if he ever wants to make another woman happy as his life partner. See my response above.
I agree. It's a double
I agree. It's a double standard.
Really yes.... he never had
Really yes....
he never had issues paying for both houses..... he paid for the new wife allot of money, she then suddenly refused that his teen age kids comes to visit (If I recall hers are way younger not close to being teens) He wonders why she suddenly changed, money was not a real issue.... I simply say - she never changed, she could only pretend for so long..
Hell we all know what brats teenagers can be..... and now they have a rich Dad as well... double the shit I guess, with 2 step siblings below the age of 10, very irritating to teens I bet...
she still has no right to tell him, his kids or she leaves.. remember she did leave....
Seriously you need to start
Seriously you need to start reading a bit closer.
Her kids are just 1-2 years younger than his. Two kids, 12 and 13. His 14, 14, 15.
I am assuming, correct me if
I am assuming, correct me if I am wrong, that your ex lives in a 4 bedroom house. Why does she need a 4 bedroom or even 3 bedroom house once your youngest is in varsity? Are you not coddling your kids a bit too much on this specific issue?
I have 2 biological daughters and let me tell you, I have no intention of keeping a 4 bedroom house once Polly goes to university.
I like my children to have
I like my children to have stability and this is their childhood home. I see no reason to sell the house and buy a condo so that I can downsize their living quarters when each kid goes to university. Their home is their home and will be till they are done with school. Then they can live in their own home and my ex can get her own place. I don't plan on selling my 6 bedroom house when my stepkids leave. I love my house and the area we live in.
I cannot find, although I am
I cannot find, although I am sure you told us, how old your children are. You're oddly stubborn on this point. I would not be alright with my husband doing this and nor would my husband be alright with my doing it. We both have children from former relationships.
We are in different
We are in different situations.
Really? My daughters
Really? My daughters biological father does not pay maintenance and he never will. My husband has been paying his ex wife too much with extra's over and above. I do not think it's all that different.
You however evaded my question of the ages of your children. I'd also like to ask if your current wife is the other woman that ended your marriage.
Evaded? Missing a question is
Evaded? Missing a question is not evading. My children are 14,14 and 15. Her children are 11 and 13. My ex wife cheated on me and that ended my marriage. I met my wife after the divorce was finalized.
It's different in that I want to keep the house for my kids till they are finished with their education and I can afford to.
Gunner is not forcing her to
Gunner is not forcing her to get CS from her EX... he simply decided not to pay for her kids anymore..
she wants the same life style for her kids then what his kids have.... and she walked out because he did not tell his kids they can not come by the summer for visitation....
which is correct
which is correct yes......
she wants him to pay less for his kid.... he said fine.. then if you want more for your kids get their father to pay...
it's a fair deal, he will pay less and explain to his kids and she needs to do something from her side... why should he keep up his end and she does what ever she wants?
and he should not be paying for her children, and his children should not suffer suddenly cause SM said so
Right - but she is now
Right - but she is now requesting (demanding) a change.... why wouldn't he be able to as well?
He isn't a criminal or child
He isn't a criminal or child abuser he just prefers to keep his money and not pay for his responsibilities. It wouldn't hurt my step kids to go see their dad.
Maybe they will decide he's
Maybe they will decide he's the cool dad and go live with him. Either way he needs to support them.
Maybe the bio dad will
Maybe the bio dad will "support " his kids by helping to raise them. That's Gunner's explanation of why his Ex doesn't support his kids financially.
If he was around and helping
If he was around and helping with his kids I wouldn't demand child support.
It's not up to you to demand
It's not up to you to demand it...he's not YOUR ex.
I think you might be a wee bit controlling...
Or tired of being taken
Or tired of being taken advantage of.
He can ask for it because he
He can ask for it because he is also offering some very significant changes that she wants. It's a negotiation. So of course he is hoping for something in return. The whole point is for both of them to be happy so he is giving up things that have heretofore made him happy to please her so it's perfectly normal for him to ask her to do something in return to help him be happy.
There is just nothing wrong with him feeling bad that he would be supporting other kids to a higher degree than his own. Feeling bad about that would be a nearly universal thing.
ask her to pursue, yes.
ask her to pursue, yes. Demand from him? Nope...
I guess I am not allowed to
I guess I am not allowed to joke. No way is a man who hasn't seen his kids in 3 years going to get custody from a good mom.
My husband's exwife has two
My husband's exwife has two older children by a different man. She sounds a lot like you wife in regards to their dad. She has never tried to get CS from him and never let him see his kids. Even when he showed up on their doorstep in tears because he missed his kids.
Those kids are now 18 and 20 and have no idea who their father is. The boy is completely messed up and the girl is just like BM (not good).
Gunner, you stepkids deserve a change to get to know their dad. If he's not a good dad, they will figure that out on their own. It's very unfair to them to keep that relationship from them.
Their dad stopped coming to
Their dad stopped coming to see them he wasn't denied visitation. He left when the youngest was 2 months old and came back for her first birthday and was allowed to see her. He comes and goes and she allows allows him to see his kids. It's been 3 years this time and she doesn't want to remind him about them.
I see
I see
That's true... for all we
That's true... for all we know, she could be the GUBM and the dad might be on this site complaining he doesn't get to see his kids }:)
Is there a man complaining
Is there a man complaining that he only sees his kids every few years and his ex isn't getting him to pay child support?
No, I'm saying..... he
No, I'm saying..... he maintained 2 house holds, nothing was wrong... then out of the blue SM gave him the ultimatum...
it's her and her children and his are banned from their house....
we all told him close your wallet... he was even paying her study loan debts and everything for her children.. she never struggled for money, not her kids... and now she told him if he allows his kids to visit she will be leaving?
He's simply doing what we told him.. close your wallet set some boundaries etc... and yet every one is attacking him?
remember we had a poster
remember we had a poster here..... she decided to disengage from her husband and his skids cause the little girl was sick and she was scared the kid would puke in her car.... thus she refused to collect the kid from school..
then her kid needed a lift to a school trip departure... she did not want to leave work and her DH said, nope your kid your problem... the same exact thing she told him with the sick sd.....
eventually she left her DH, cause he disengaged from her kid, she also told him his children could not come over any more blablablabla
I've been wondering if this poster is not Gunners wife..... the whole situation sounds so the same, this time just from the man's perspective....
nah if you had your own kids,
nah if you had your own kids, you would've been like a couple of us on here...
teaching our kids respect and discipline, our little snowflakes are not seen as white, more as brown almost black cause we know they are not perfect... your kid never would've treated your DH the way his kids treats you... and that's why people say SF always has it easier then SM.... cause most BM's teach their kids to respect all people, just not the new woman in Dad's life...
BM's on here.... you know this statement is aimed at a small group of BM's not on this site.. and not you
Obviously, something was
Obviously, something was wrong.
He wasn't clear with us here about the extent to which he was doing these things for his ex. perhaps he wasn't as forthcoming with his wife about the extent of his support, either. Many couples don't discuss finances as thoroughly as they should when in the blush of romance...figuring money will never come between them...so I'm not faulting Gunner for this at all. But nor do I think posters should keep screeching - "she knew the deal when you got married!!!!" That's probably not entirely true.
I don't think current wife wants her kids and his kids to be the same in his eyes...I think SHE wants to feel more loved and cared for than his ex. We now know that his ex lives rent-free in a paid-for house, gets checks written out to her directly for the kids' school bills and extracurricular activities, and also gets $1000 above CO CS, which is likely already high...for what, exactly? What do the kids need or want that his ex can't buy for them with the regular CS amount, no mortgage, a 40K a year job, and all school and extracurriculars paid for? At this point...Gunner IS supporting his ex-wife, whether he sees it that way or not. These details make a difference.
I think the decrease in the overage, the reminder of the end date for the free house, and paying expenses directly to the school, etc. will go a long way toward making your wife feel more loved and respected. Good call.
I'm just answering on what he
I'm just answering on what he said before...
his new wife demands that he spends exactly the same amount on her children then what he does on his... and he pays for her debts, she also works and spends her money on herself...
he never short changed the new wife and he supports his ex wife and kids... financially he can..
so why is the new wife demanding things now...
I get the feeling validated, but Gunner does not even live close to his Ex, he's with his new wife and kids all the time, his kids only visits.... ??
Nope. That's incorrect.
Nope. That's incorrect.
Nowhere did he ever say that she demands that he pay the same for her kids as he pays for his. For one, he is supplying HIS kids with two homes rather than one home for his skids (which is really just a byproduct of having his wife live with him...which I'm assuming is what he wants). He is also paying full tuition for his kids plus all extras and extracurricular activities plus CS plus $1000 a month above and beyond CS...none of which he is doing for his skids. He is paying a small down payment on their private school and his wife is then making the monthly payments and also covering household expenses like groceries. She never, ever demanded he make it "equal" between the kids...just that he continue the arrangement they had in place.
You're also incorrect about the visitation. According to his own posts/calculations, his kids come EOWE, plus dinners on the off weeks, plus all of summer except two weeks, plus spring break, plus the two weeks after Christmas. That's nearly 50% visitation.
I find it odd that he's totally cool that his ex is benefitting as a byproduct of his generosity to his kids, but he's frustrated that his wife's children are benefitting as the byproduct of his generosity to her. Wouldn't that kind of hurt your feelings if you were his wife?
Gunner has said : "She
Gunner has said :
"She doesn't want me to pay anything above child support for my kids but I do because their mom can't afford it. They wouldn't be able to go to private school and live in a great neighborhood or play all their activities ect. "
and:
"She wants me to stop paying all extra and use that money in our home. It would severely diminish my children's life style and that isn't acceptable to me."
So whatever the going rate for CS on the state's guidelines is the only amount SM wants paid toward his bio-kids. That indicates SM is good with OP paying her kids home and house bills (all of it) and assisting in enabling her kids to go to private school (the one his own kids would have to drop out of) .
She also currently wants his bio-kids to cease the summer visitation (which is roughly 9-10 weeks after BM has her 2wks). That dramatically lowers his parenting split of 40/60 down and may actually mean the above CS ($1,000 I think he said extra above guideline on that) would bring back up the state guideline to what he is currently paying towards monthly normal CS guideline and the additional $1,000 anyway. He can't toss out 9 weeks over 7 overnights a week and still expect it not to affect his CS. That's 63 overnights now being dumped back on BM.
Yes...but then he's also
Yes...but then he's also backed off of all that as well and said that his wife has been great and this in uncharacteristic behavior. She has also backed off of her "demands" and is going to counseling now.
Have you never been unreasonable when you were angry and brim-full of resentment? The facts are...he WAY over-supports his ex-wife and his current wife is hurt by that. Period, end of story. That is a reasonable way for her to feel. I am glad Gunner is starting / willing to set more reasonable boundaries with his ex.
"I find it odd that he's
"I find it odd that he's totally cool that his ex is benefitting as a byproduct of his generosity to his kids, but he's frustrated that his wife's children are benefitting as the byproduct of his generosity to her. Wouldn't that kind of hurt your feelings if you were his wife?"
DING DING DING! Right here...
Especially since his XW cheated, I would also wonder what in the world his connection to this woman/XW is... to insist on paying her rent (you are already paying her rent in the form of child support and extras) until the YOUNGEST is 25 is a very long time. As a wife, I would feel like he is more protective of his XW than he is of me. And that would really not fly.
My H pays what is court ordered and buys things himself for his child above and beyond. Activities etc. Anything more than that would make me wonder and really upset. My H is a high earner and he pays the state maximum for one child. His child support is more than BM's rent, around the same as a full time retail job grosses each month, tax free to BM for one child. If he were to pay their rent in addition to CS, in addition to buying things for SS, in addition to paying half of his private school tuition (which he did pay), then yes, I would feel very "less than".
What does BM pay for?
I don't think you should cut back "because SM says so". I think you should cut back because BM is a grown woman and should be contributing to her own children's upkeep as well.
I think you should not blink an eye at taking care of her children/your SKids minimally because what you are doing must feel really awful to your W. It is sort of making it up to her. Yes, she is suddenly feeling very resentful towards your Kids and expressing it, but I don't think she is evil for it. She is human for it. We all want our partners to love us and value us more than any other adult.
But what's really going on is she feels that they are tied very closely to another woman who gets a lot of your support. So yeah, they are getting her frustration with the BM directed at them. Not the right way to handle it, but I do think you need to look at things from her perspective and address this in counseling.
By address this, you need to acknowledge how bad this must feel to her. She is acting out resentment she feels about how you treat your XW onto your kids. This is really about your choices and not your kids.
Yep. 100% I have been
Yep. 100%
I have been incredibly tough on Gunner from Day One, because I just think it's so rare that a SM just goes crazy on kids out of the blue and for no reason at all. There had to be more to the story. And when I say "tough on Gunner" I really mean I haven't been a Yes-Man and have been encouraging him to consider his wife's perspective rather than just assuming she's 1000% wrong and evil and he's 1000% justified as many have assumed—and also that I've pushed back on some of the usual suspects vilifying the SM no matter what and that I've taken Gunner at his word that he wanted a broader perspective. So...not so much tough as tough love, I hope.
I think Gunner is now experiencing some blowback from others who are tired of the usual suspects saying their usual line: "If she doesn't like it, she can leave!!!!" As if it's so easy to just walk away from a marriage. As if marriage means absolutely nothing...as if they aren't life partners...as if compromise is impossible. Man I get tired of seeing that response on here. Yeah. Sometimes people need to walk. But not EVERY time. In this scenario, Gunner said more than once that he loves his wife, this is unusual behavior for her, and that he wanted the marriage to work. Still, the screeching harpies insist his wife is a gold-digging b**** with no redeeming qualities. I think the harsh responses to Gunner are more responses to these commenters...and I think it's important to acknowledge that Gunner is attempting to compromise and work this out. That's really good of him.
Completely agree. I do think
Completely agree. I do think his compromises will go a long way towards healing his wife's hurt.
But this was agreed upon from
But this was agreed upon from the get go. If his current wife wasn't willing to deal with it, she should not have married him.
Where did you see him say
Where did you see him say that it was "agreed upon from the get go" exactly? Or is that just what you're assuming? All I've heard him say about his finances is that he gets the final say because he makes more.
I'm glad he's now showing a willingness to compromise and demonstrate to his wife that she's important to him. Hopefully she will follow suit.
What I meant was, his
What I meant was, his agreement with his ex and what he pays for his kids was in place when they divorced, it's what he has been doing all along (at least, that's my understanding from some of his posts).
Yes, I assume his current wife knew this when she married him and knew what his stance was on it, that he was not going to change it.
But, like a lot of people, she probably figured she could change things somewhere along the way, and that's what she's trying to do.
She benefits greatly from his money, as well, and usually everybody says, "Let him do what he wants with his money as long as he's he's still paying his share of the bills." Well, he pays his share and quite a bit of hers. And, picks up her ex's slack.
He pays for everything for
He pays for everything for everyone...
Until he decided he would no longer pay for everything for his CURRENT wife because she was acting resentful towards his kids.
He still pays for everything for XW, even though she cheated. I can understand her frustration that she didn't even cheat, she just let her human feelings boil over and tried to express them in a way he might hear and the result on her was him refusing to pay things for her/withdrawing expressions of love.
XW cheats and still gets the benefit of his $$ for decades, at a super high level. Current W tries to "level the playing field" by having some things feel like they are just for her and he withdraws his support.
XW has a very nice ride because she birthed your kids. Current W does as long as she doesn't express frustration, but if she does then not so much because she hasn't and will not birth your kids. That is the definition of a golden uterus birth mother (your XW).
I adore my DH, Gunner. We have a good relationship and an amazing connection, lots of laughter and we just plain like each other. I plan to spend the rest of my life with him and him with me. This would not sit well with me. I would have a hard time with it, definitely. I can sympathize with your W. I would not be able to tolerate it for long without some pretty obvious signs that he puts me first over the XW.
I like your suggestions, definitely. But I have a couple of other ideas too.
Why NOT have a family vacation that is planned to be only her kids, you and her? Your kids get vacations with their Mom that are basically funded by you, either directly or by her not having to pay any rent. Let your current wife have something that your XW doesn't get.
Work on your communication skills. I love how you describe your wife in this post. Her laughter and her personality... do you tell her that? You should. I love when my DH sees me with loving eyes and can describe why.
Go away with just your Wife. Tell your kids that your marriage is a priority to you and because of that, you are taking DW on a special trip. These little things can make a huge difference in how tolerant your wife can be when her feelings get strong. Strengthen the love and the resentment is more manageable. She is telling you she doesn't feel great about your relationship. You have 11 more years of this, if you want her there in 11 years and if you want to continue supporting your kids through supporting your XW, then you need to work more on your marriage.
Lastly, let your W resent your kids sometimes. Goodness knows, we all do. Someone else's kids in your home is not easy. It can be really tiring and even the most patient people lose it sometimes and need to be heard about it. I like what you are doing already and I do think they would help, if I were in your DW's shoes.
I especially love your last
I especially love your last point here.
Gunner has expressed feelings of resentment and frustration about his wife's kids...yet seems totally flabbergasted and shocked that his wife feels resentment about his kids at times...or that she feels just plain overwhelmed by having 5 kids in the house. It's really not that surprising...even without the strange financial stuff.
I am a stepkid as well as a
I am a stepkid as well as a SM.
Sometimes my sibs and I (plus our kids, spouses etc) go alone when we vacation with Dad & SM. Sometimes my stepsister joins us, but usually not.
She travels with my Dad & her Mom (my SMO) a lot too. Sometimes we join them, but usually not.
We don't always like to spend a lot of time together when we do, because we aren't that close.
I have a SF. My mother has tried to make us "blend" with SF's daughters. We met as adults. We are friendly, but I wouldn't call us friends, nor family. They are my SF's family and as such, I am respectful. The two times she has forced us to travel together has been quite uncomfortable. So we all kind of avoid it as best we can. Relationships can't be forced or it will backfire on you.
I love my stepparents, both of them. It varies with my stepsiblings, but I get along way better with the one I am not forced to be around.
So yeah, it does happen. Not everyone blends in the same ways. You can't force people to blend, but you can accept what is natural for each set of family members and not judge it.
"It was a long drug out
"It was a long drug out discussion but she doesn't consider my kids as living there or our home their home. I told her absolutely this is their home and we argued about it."
This does NOT say the children are not welcome. This says that her perspective is that the kids are visitors and their "home" is really at their mom's house. This is not as big a thing as people are saying it is. That is her PERSPECTIVE. She has not decreed "it's the kids or me". He does not say "she hates my kids and never wants them over to our home again". In fact, he says she does NOT hate his kids but that it is disruptive to the household routine and uncomfortable for her and her kids. That doesn't make her right or Gunner right. It is her perspective.
In other words, this family HAS NOT BLENDED. They've been pretending they have but they haven't actually done it in reality. Many of us never get there. She has tolerated it for a while and felt uncomfortable and then something happened and she blew her top. Gunner probably has no clue what that event was, but it was something for her.
Also -- Dad was not willing to go on a family vacation without his kids this time because that's not how it was planned. It was originally planned with everyone involved. To suddenly change a preplanned vacation to now a vacation that excludes his kids is way different than doing an activity when the skids aren't there and it was always planned that way. We don't know how Gunner would feel going on vacation sometimes separately because they've been doing the pretending to blend thing for so long.
You can respect that there are two different family units involved in this situation and do some things separately. There is zero wrong with that. But you have to say it out loud and be honest about it, and that is where I do fault his DW. I really think Gunner was blind sided by this and I think he has done very well in trying to work on the way he sees things and make some accommodations, compromises and understand his wife. Perhaps when XW takes the kids on vacation would be a great time for Gunner to go away with his wife and maybe her kids. Or maybe just the two of them sometimes.
You seem to be judging the SM very harshly based on her very natural feelings of being overwhelmed, frustrated and confused. She's human. I have had very similar feelings. I talk to my husband about them. Sometimes he compromises, sometimes I do and sometimes we both do. Sometimes nothing can be changed at all. That's just life.
"This does NOT say the
"This does NOT say the children are not welcome."
Maybe not, but this one did:
"if I want her back I need to do xyz. XYZ includes paying her bills, paying for private school for her kids, seeing my kids outside our home for summer except for every other weekend in which she will leave the house and a list of other things she is unhappy about concerning my kids".
Gunner has his kids all but two weeks of summer. SM demanded nothing more for visit than two 48hrs visits each month. Gunner's current schedule gives him a overall year 40% parenting split. Taking his summer schedule away drastically reduces his custody time.
Additionally, Sm said she and her kids would not be there during the two 48hr stretches she was willing to allow the kids in the house. Now if this all doesn't say "You're kids aren't welcome" , and are less than mine, I don't know how much more clear she could have been.
I wonder if Gunner decided to ban SM's kids from the home except for two 48hr stretches twice a month, what SM would do. Smile and say "ok"? "Let me call their bio-Dad and tell him I'll be sending my kids to him for the summer"?
SM wants Gunner to cease paying private school for his children, but to fully pay for her children to attend. Yeah, the same woman who will not even attempt to go after child support from the biological father of her children, demanded another man fully pay for her children and to hell with his own children.
Are you feeling that warm cozy welcome yet?
I'm really glad this Gunner Saga is bogus. Any guesses on what the next chapter will be?
I have not seen him say she
I have not seen him say she wants his kids to not go to private school. He does say she is bothered by the extras going to BM beyond CS.
This sounds, yet again, like her opening negotiation. It is ideally what she would want -- and it was said after he declared he was removing financial support (his way of showing love), so she was very hurt. And very angry. And resentful.
In reality, his kids are there this summer.
So is she and so are her kids.
So I guess her "demand" as you guys keep calling it is really her preference.
Is there a one of us that would not prefer to NOT have our home lives and routines uprooted by our skids on a regular basis and then have them leave again?
About half the blogs here are about that very topic. Why are we allowed to express it, but she isn't? That's all she did. She didn't have a bonfire of their clothes and furniture on the front lawn. She didn't change the locks.
I agree. I'm not selling my
I agree. I'm not selling my 4 bedroom once skids leave. I love my house. And hopefully one day (long long long in the future) we will have grandbabies to spend the night and spoil.
That's your house with your
That's your house with your husband. This is his house with his ex wife
True
True
Mon darling - it's his
Mon darling -
it's his house not the Ex wife's house, she's just staying there rent free.... would it have been better if he paid spousal support and she paid it back to him as rent?
Is she a SAHM as agreed pre
Is she a SAHM as agreed pre the divorce or separation? I somehow think we're missing something in this recounting. Gunner is too evasive in his answers.
yes - as per divorce
yes - as per divorce agreement... she could stay rent free in the house till youngest reach age 25, she's not getting any other help from him, just free housing...
further he pays CS ... and if the kids want something extra he pays as well... he's the wallet and BM is the parent, ..
If I recall they do not live in the same town and Gunner only gets his kids holidays adn some week-ends even if it's 50/50, there's no issues between Gunner and his Ex wife, she's not milking him dry (he never complained about her)
it's all the new wife, that wants that house to be sold, BM and kids on the street... if his kids goes to PVT school he will pay for hers to go as well.... etc
25 - that just blows my mind.
25 - that just blows my mind. When my oldest was 25, she had her OWN mortgage, husband and a baby on the way.
Also, Acra, I think he says that he pays her $1500 a month, which is $500 more than what is ordered.
No. It's 1K on top of regular
No. It's 1K on top of regular CS, plus a free house and all extras for kids plus school and activity expenses...written as checks directly to ex. He didn't disclose what CS is, but I'm certain it's substantial. Ex likely got assets in the divorce as well. So, yes, Acra...he is actually supporting his ex far more than just a free place to stay and CS.
Again, no. That is not
Again, no. That is not correct according to Gunner's own posts. His wife pays for her kids to go to private school plus pays groceries and other household expenses for their home plus saves for vacation. He has also said she pays for extras for her kids. She is contributing to the standard of living at their house, though in a smaller degree than Gunner, obviously.
His children get TWO homes, full tuition, all extras and activities paid for by him, high CS to BM plus a 1K a month extra payment directly to her...for...what? She needs this while getting substantial CS, school and extracurriculars paid for, a free place to live? Really? He is supporting his ex, no two ways about it.
No one is saying he should provide more for his skids than he provides for his own children. We're saying he should provide more for his WIFE than he provides for his ex. It's that simple.
I'm curious how the extra
I'm curious how the extra additional $1,000 a month cash came about. As you say he pays the CS, provides mortgage/rent free house, education, and extra activities (I'll assume he pays for the summer camp besides hobbies and school activities and any sports). I'll also assume he pays health/dental insurance and any co-pay and non-covered medical.
So how and why did the additional $1,000 creep into it? Is it for BM' vacations with the kids? For BM' car payment and vehicle insurance to haul kids around? Perhaps to cover household heat, air, cable? Maybe to cover 'fun' outings on BM' time?
Regardless of if Gunner knows exactly what BM does with that $1,000, I'm sure he does know when and how the additional $1,000 a month extra cash started.
It is also nothing from the divorce decree or else he wouldn't be able to now jut slash it down to $500 in this compromise attempt with his wife.
Evading and now evasive. Did
Evading and now evasive. Did I do something to offend you? I have tried to answer all of your questions so please stop. My ex wife works.
hehehe Sir Gunner - we are
hehehe Sir Gunner - we are all disgruntle evil SM's dealing with ex wives and bratty children... not saying your ex family falls in this class.....
simply do not feel offended, not every one reads here 24/7 like me, people actually works during office hours.. just not me, I only hand out work and supervise .....
Hey, I don't work during
Hey, I don't work during office hrs either. I'm to busy on here and other websites. }:)
newsflash, at 22, they aren't
newsflash, at 22, they aren't children...
Why the infantilization and coddling built into the next 10 years of your life?
Do you have college age kids?
Do you have college age kids? Do they come home for the summer or live with dad over the summer? It's not unreasonable to come home to mom and dad when school is out.
I have three kids - all
I have three kids - all college graduates.
My daughter stayed in college town to work and take classes. She had a lease.
Thing1 came home his first summer, then had a lease, a job, an intership, trips to Europe and classes to take over his summers.
Thing2 came home his first summer and worked, then had a lease, a job, a research internship and classes to take during his summers.
It's not unreasonable after freshman year, but when a kid is in graduate school? Yeah, that's a little much.
I would say you did something
I would say you did something right with your kids.
My DH was required to pay CS for a good 6 months after SD finished her undergraduate degree. It was ridiculous.
My SD is now 26, just graduated with her MA completely funded by BM (sadly, yet fortuitous for SD that her GBM passed away a week before she graduated with her BA, and all of BM's financial difficulties came to an end.) SD works part-time, and lives in an apartment completely paid for by BM, and has a new car courtesy of BM.
I would "love" to call SD entitled, but BM hasn't done her any favors. I really don't see SD ever able to fully support herself, and it's her own mother's fault. If her GBM were still alive, there's a very good chance BM never would have been able to fund her current life. (BM took DH to court just a few years earlier, and it showed that BM was in MASSIVE amounts of debt.)
I don't think a lot of people today realize that they are harming their kids by still funding their lives well into their 20's. The worst part here is that SD would rather live under BM's control if it means she can have a certain lifestyle instead of cutting back and being completely autonomous. I can't understand that at all.
I sure did - I held them
I sure did - I held them accountable, expected them to be responsible, and implemented consequences when they weren't.
Or, you know, I just did my job as a parent
most kids don't come home
most kids don't come home after freshman year.
giving your XW a place to live for the other 49 non school break weeks for 7 years post high school is just ridiculous...I totally see why your wife feels the way she does.
Who knows. Maybe since his ex
Who knows. Maybe since his ex will no longer be receiving CS plus an additional 1K a month she won't want to maintain the home. Maybe she'll downsize instead.
Or will the subsidizing also continue until 25? At that point, you'll be paying for your kids to have your home, exes home, and housing in school. Three households for the kids!
the order requires it, so
the order requires it, so yeah, he'll be paying for three homes for his kids and one for his XW.
since it's in the order, I would assume that she couldn't downsize. Afterall, OP wants his widdle kiddles to have access to their childhood home until they are in their mid 20s...
of course, you can't expect
of course, you can't expect grown ass people to be responsible for themselves, now can you?
I sure hope that house he pays for has a really, really big basement
I would still have a very,
I would still have a very, very big problem how your wife doesn't want your children there at your home and doesn't feel like your home should be there home but thinks of her children as your children and wants you to support her kids. I think that would be a deal breaker for me. I also would still have issues with how she handles conflict.
I have an issue with both and
I have an issue with both and she has agreed to counseling to work on them.
What do you think about this
What do you think about this counselor, Gunner? Do you like him or her?
I'm trying not to judge just
I'm trying not to judge just yet. She seems to spend most of our sessions so far going over our history and very little time with our issues.
They have to understand your
They have to understand your history better to get to the issues.
The issues come from the history.
First I have a couple
First I have a couple questions...what is your visitation like during the school year? I read in comments above that your kids stay with you on school breaks and summer, does that mean they don't visit you at all during the school year? Also, how old are they?
Second, I like your compromises above, I think you're being pretty fair. However, sounds like your ex does not have any housing expenses (you stated that the house she lives in is paid off), receives regular child support from you, and then you also give her an additional $1000 a month on top of that. That seems quite excessive to me, ESPECIALLY during the months that your kids are staying with you in the summer. I like your suggestion to buy extras for the kids directly, and to decrease your extra contribution to $500 and then evaluate again in 6 months if you can decrease again. I don't see a point of you sending any extra funds to your ex during the months that your children stay with you, it is not benefiting them in any way.
Also, I don't think you should base your decision to lower your extra contributions to your ex on your current wife getting CS from her ex.
14,14 and 15. I have them
14,14 and 15. I have them every other weekend, from Friday after school till I drop them at school on Monday. I see them for dinner and drop them at home during the week. I get all of summer break, spring break and after Christmas break. The ex gets Thanksgiving week and Christmas with 2 weeks of summer.
If you add up the days I bet
If you add up the days I bet that is close to 50/50 over the year. I am surprised you pay so much with that schedule.
So about 136-146 days a year
So about 136-146 days a year not counting weekday dinner. Roughly 40% with a 40/60 time split.
Has your Ex remarried?
Has your Ex remarried?
Is she is she doesn't live
Is she is she doesn't live with him. She has a long time boyfriend that the kids have mentioned. I don't talk to my ex about her personal life.
Do you know with 100%
Do you know with 100% certainty that he doesn't live there when your kids are with you? Does he have kids?
Don't care and none of my
Don't care and none of my business.
My point is that you very
My point is that you very well might be supporting another man and his kids in addition to your Ex.
He doesn't live there when my
He doesn't live there when my kids are there but that may very well happen.
She raises them and I pay for
She raises them and I pay for them. It's worked out well for us and she has done a great job with them. I don't know what she spends her money on and I don't care because my kids are well cared for.
So you want to force your
So you want to force your wife to get CS so her kids have 2 adults responsible for her kids but you don't insist on the same for your Ex. Double standard. Both parents have a obligation to support their kids.
Supporting? If her boyfriend
Supporting? If her boyfriend spends the weekend with her that's their business not mine and it has nothing to do with my wifes ex supporting his children.
If her boyfriend and his kids
If her boyfriend and his kids moves into the house you are paying for.... he now also lives rent free... and essentially, what's going to happen is:
BM and BF pay no rent
BM doesn't have to pay anything out of pocket for kids, because YOU pay child support AND give her 1000$ extra... on TOP of the rent...
say he makes 40k a year also...between the 2 of them, they can essentially save 80k a year because you're paying their adult bills... with free rent and no out of pocket kid expenses, you're thus going to also allow your ex's boyfriend to give his kids a better life than you're allowing for your own wife's kids....
Just like a skid.... which is why your wife is upset - you're basically paying for your unlaunched skid's bills....except in your case, the unloauched skid is your EX...an adult who should be self-supporting.
You're not just paying child support.... the rent payments and extra money are ALIMONY. Voluntary alimony. That's what your wife sees it as - you're spending all this money on another adult's bills. Bad enough if it's a skid...but a skid, could possibly be justified... but this is your EX.
Her boyfriend doesn't live
Her boyfriend doesn't live there so none of this matters. I don't live in what ifs.
no, but she does. In any case
no, but she does.
In any case - her position is that you're voluntarily paying your ex-wife's bills. Not your kid's bills.... your ex's bills.
You can say it's for the kids all you want.... but she, like most SM's here, know darn well that that statement from you is just lip service, and that the money is really going straight in your ex-wife's pocket. It's your business - but, your wife's problem is that you WANT to do this... not that you HAVE to do this.
She's pissed because you WANT to support another woman. Claiming it's for your kids is nothing but an excuse.
Thanks Lady. That is a
Thanks Lady. That is a perfect summary of the situation.
If you look at it that way, I
If you look at it that way, I am (she doesn't start paying her own bills till July) throwing money at her and her ex since I pay for everything. You are making up visions in your head now about me and my ex.
"Think about that. What if your wife was constantly saying complimentary things about her ex. Every week or so let's say she mentioned how great he's at x,y or z. But she rarely compliments you, and when she does it feels forced or obligatory. I bet you would start to resent your wife and question her love for you and if she was over her ex."
I don't say anything about my ex to anyone. When I do speak of her it isn't really pleasant.
Also when has my wife ever had to justify, equalize and fight for financial support from me? I pay all her bills and support her and her kids financially.
Dick, cock, why are you
Dick, cock, why are you obsessed with my organ? Maybe it's best we don't talk anymore.
That is unnecessary and
That is unnecessary and crude. There is no reason to take things to this level and you should be ashamed of yourself, ladyface.
I struggle with a SM flipping
I struggle with a SM flipping her crazy overnight. There's more to this story.
Personally, I would tell my DH that if he wanted to support a grown woman, he needs to go f*ck her and not me.
Right? At least the student
Right? At least the student loans are for a degree that likely has made her a higher earner than she would be otherwise. So, she's bringing value to the household while the ex is nothing but a financial drain...but somehow this SM is crazy for wanting this situation to be reevaluated.
Again, Gunner. I really think you are on the right track. You can support your kids the way you want to while also making your wife feel respected and important in your life...I just know it. I might reconsider the Student Loan thing, especially as it seems like it really wouldn't be a big deal for you at all. Do you really want your wife struggling to pay this bill while watching your ex sitting in the lap of luxury on your dime? Think about it.
I was thinking she could use
I was thinking she could use the child support she gets to pay her student loans. I pay the house hold bills anyway and if she did that then I would consider paying for their private school.
I think whatever works for
I think whatever works for you and your current wife is fine...and I do think you can find a reasonable compromise and be happy together. Again, bravo for trying to make it work and trying to see your wife's side. I do hope she follows suit. As I mentioned earlier...money is always about more than money...it's about what it represents. And it is highly likely that your wife has misdirected anger and resentment toward your children and your ex because it's easier than having those feelings toward you. This is a very, very...incredibly common phenomenon in blended family life. As you are able to talk and get on the same page, I have no doubt she'll be better with your kids. It's obvious this situation has been brewing and simmering for a while...I am hoping the counselor can give her some tools to better communicate so she can start to feel more like your partner.
My ex is raising them while
My ex is raising them while her ex is doing nothing for them. If he was seeing them and a part of their lives it would be different.
Raising three kids who will
Raising three kids who will be off at college? I mean, seriously, who raises adults?
No one, that's who.
I used to think you might be right in this situation, but now I see why your wife is so angry.
Why don't you see your XW as
Why don't you see your XW as responsible for paying for SOMETHING for the kids but you want your current DW to pay for vacations, groceries and household bills for your kids?
I think you've come up with a
I think you've come up with a great plan. If your wife doesn't change her attitude toot suite after seeing that then, imho, there is no hope. She should come up with something equally transformative in what she has to offer.
You've done great, gunner. This may not be the final plan as it goes into operation (be prepared to tweak a bit if nec), but it is quite close.
Paying the bills directly is definitely optimal. No matter what happens with your current wife, you should keep up that practice. This will have the effect of keeping you closer to your children emotionally because you will have that much more detail about their lives and the other adults in them (school people, etc).
Ok, now I'm off to read the thread. And I commend you for paying attention to the many voices here who nailed this issue and for making the first move for your wife.
lol, tout de suite.
lol, tout de suite.
Bel esprit, mon amie!
Bel esprit, mon amie!
I think counseling and
I think counseling and working through the anger and hurt feelings is a top priority. To me it sounds like your Wife is upset with you and taking it out on your kids. It is common in blended families for the anger to be misdirected.
Compromise is key and it is sounding like that is what you are doing.
When your exWife renews her lease , you really should add something in there that addresses a SO moving in. If that happens then they as a couple should have to pay something towards the rent. You think your current Wife is angry now ...just wait if it ever happens that your exWife and Boyfriend are living rent free while she helps support your household.
I know you want your kids to live the good life - but what all does that mean to you ? Your exWife lives rent free and works FT. My guess is that if you decreased the extra CS from $1000 to nothing - Their standard of living would not change one bit. Maybe a few less dinners out. Your kids are all old enough to tell you if they need something.
I have to admit, it makes no
I have to admit, it makes no sense to me why you get so many "what if" scenarios tossed at you. You're doing a whole heck of a lot better than 90% of the fathers that get griped about on this board.
I think you're a good, reasonable man. Your plan is workable but I hate to see you half what they get just to suit the new wife. It's NOT affecting her living situation - in fact, you make her life better and she's chopping off her nose to spite her face, in my opinion.
I say you do what works best for you and your children. You're not fighting and having endless court battles. You're being the better person here and being ragged on for it. Sorry to see that.
Hell, I'll never forget being asked to provide insurance for my step children while their two ABLE bodied LOSER parents sat there being hateful to one another and only NOT insuring their children to get back at the other. I told that attorney it would be a cold day in HELL before I supplied something those two idiots could provide but CHOSE not to. Screw them. As you can imagine, I'm no longer in that situation. You're a good guy. Too many assumptions are being made from where I'm sitting. I deal in reality and facts. It's sad to me that your wife is being like this to your children. Sounds like they aren't bad, messy, or disrespectful = but I wouldn't tolerate someone saying my children don't belong in MY OWN HOME. Forget that.
Hang tough and I wish you the best.
Thank you. I don't get it
Thank you. I don't get it either. One lady is referencing a 12 inch **** at me and I have no idea where her anger is coming from. I never knew asking a father to pay child support would upset so many woman. It's definitely a little backwards around here.
He should be paying. I'll
He should be paying. I'll never forget the ex idiot I was with going to court and taking his sons away from their mother - expecting me to raise them while he worked out of two for two weeks at a time, (let me clairify, they were nasty, disrespectful, lying, manipulators just like their parents)he then tells her NOT to pay support. FORGET THAT NOISE! I was expected to pay for half of everything and at times, more. He made twice what I made. Had more people in the house. They were nasty and rude. And she got off wild and free? Not even paying for insurance or a cellphone bill?? Don't think so, Bucko. She also refused to have the boys back at her house as she was angry at them for moving to their father's house in a plan they cooked up behind her back.
There is NOTHING wrong for asking a man to support his children. He's some LOW LIFE if he doesn't. You are correct on this point.
Good post, Frenchpeas. I
Good post, Frenchpeas. I don't know why the endless hypotheticals either. It seems like gunner's presence has pushed some deep-seated buttons in a lot of women here. Your misdirected anger comment resonates.
All of the assumptions about
All of the assumptions about BF and kids living in the house, abusive/pedo bio father. 12" cocks. Makes not a damn bit of difference. LMAO. None of it is reality. He has made it plain that he has nothing for the ex wife. I'm sure he doesn't. The way he's caring for his kids speaks volumes.
Hey, I have a friend that paid her exH's house payment until their son turned 18 for this exact reason. He was lazy and wouldn't hold a job. Never paid her a damn dime in support. She was forced by the courts to leave her house and he parked his ass in it then sat there letting bills go unpaid. Like Gunner, she wanted her son to have a decent place to visit with his father. His childhood home. I told her she was crazy for allowing the deadbeat to borrow her spare vehicle when his broke down, paid his bills, loaned him cash, and lied about it - but she did it every bit of it for her SON. I admired her for that. She's a tough chick who truly put her son first. In fact, she didn't marry til he graduated HS. She is the female version of Gunner and I respect the hell out of her for it - even when we all knew that guy was taking advantage. She's moved on and living a great life now. So best wishes to Gunner.
#triggered
Those were questions for
Those were questions for Gunner, not hypotheticals. And they do actually raise good points. If the bio-dad is abusive, I think she's smart to steer clear of him. Since he's not, I think she should absolutely go for support...and I hope Gunner can gently encourage her to do so and help her get over her protective instinct and fears for her children that are really doing them more harm than good.
We knew Gunner's ex cheated on him - so the question of whether or not she remarried or has a husband/boyfriend living with her is understandable. I think, at the root of this, people are just wondering what I asked above: Why is Gunner fine with his ex and any associated friends, relatives, lovers, etc. benefitting as a byproduct of his largesse with his children...but he gets bent out of shape about his current wife's two minor children benefitting as a byproduct of his marriage to her and generosity to her? Doesn't that seem a little skewed?
Nope. They were seized upon
Nope. They were seized upon and exaggerated - the stepkids biodad was fast on track to be named as Charles Manson. Whether or not she's moved on is none of his business and the man doesn't live in the house. He said so.
He can afford it. It's his money. She's not losing ANYTHING in the process. She's living in a SIX BEDROOM HOUSE or did yall miss that?? His kids live in their smaller childhood home. But they have stability and security. How many times has it been repeated on this board that we all want what is best for our kids?? Come on.
Where did you see that
Where did you see that happen?!?! No one fast-tracked him to Charles Manson...they just ASKED about why she fears getting him involved. A totally reasonable question. And then they also hypothesized that maybe she's a GUBM who's denying visitation to the kids' dad...which Gunner also said was incorrect. If there are assumptions, they're definitely flying BOTH ways, here...and have been since the first.
Again, as many have acknowledged here, money is about more than money. Sending that much money to his ex isn't about supporting his kids. He's supporting the ex, too...and freely...while clearly resenting the support he gives his current wife. So, yes, she is in fact "losing something in the process." That's messed up.
He doesn't appear to resent
He doesn't appear to resent helping with his skids. He resents their mother resenting his children. She's losing nothing. But she could with her rotten ass attitude. He's under zero obligation to his steps but he's provided for them. And, yeah, all kinds of assumptions were being drawn about the exW's BF. The woman has obviously not repeatedly sued to ask for more. She has not PAS'd his children. They appear to be decent children and he acknowledges their mother has done a great job with them. He owns the home and is offering his kids the support and security that he can afford without detracting from his current wife. He doesn't text her about Prison Break or anything. She lives her life. He lives his. Meh.
He has called her children
He has called her children whiny, annoying brats while his are spontaneously grateful angels all the time. He talked about her kids being clingy and needy on vacation while his were great..about them not thanking him properly...and it is clear that he resents the support he gives his WIFE because that's the first thing he takes off the table the moment she expresses frustration with their household set-up / his kids (even though he feels the same resentments and frustrations about her kids, he somehow can't understand her feelings). Either that, or he's used to using money to control people and doesn't realize that's what he's now trying to do to his WIFE.
Either way - money is a huge issue in this marriage, and not just for his wife...for him, too.
Hell, who cares? His wife has
Hell, who cares? His wife has been hateful about his kids. My steps were whiney asshole jerk kids that were allowed to act horrible. My kids aren't perfect but they were/are respectful, clean, nice kids. His perception is his reality and so is her's.
this is my point in a nutshell..
He can afford to do what he is doing!!! Why that seems to set everyone off and make them be judgmental about him is BEYOND ME!!!!
Wasn't assuming. I was asking
Wasn't assuming. I was asking in an effort for Gunner to see a different perspective.
Oh no, she dated and all. She
Oh no, she dated and all. She would have married and did when she found Mr Right. I'm quiet familiar with how it all went down with her. And, yes, she very much is the female Gunner. And she wasn't enmeshed with the EX. We all cant stand him. She knew exactly what he was - she chose to do better for her son regardless of the POS ex. At least, Gunner's exW works.
I know her and the situation was identical.
"He has made it plain that he
"He has made it plain that he has nothing for the ex wife. I'm sure he doesn't."
I don't think he has feelings for the XW, but I think if I was his current wife I might not be as sure about it.
The arrangement vis a vis the
The arrangement vis a vis the house and college, as I understand it, is in his divorce decree. He cannot unilaterally go back and change that. He would have to go to court and I believe his chances would be extremely low. I'm guessing the ex-wife gave up some other marital assets she was entitled to in order to get this arrangement. He would undoubtedly have to cough those up if he were to have any chance of changing the house arrangement. So what would be the point? So hat's done. Over. Finis. No use talking about it.
The other dad should be paying child support. If wife wanted to raise those kids on her own and never ask for cs that's one thing. But she is not only expecting a current husband to help support her kids she is demanding he not even let his own kids in their house?! Insisting she get cs out of her kids' dad is the right and proper thing to do, especially if he is going to make some changes that she wants.
Her desire to not provoke him to want to see them may be somewhat understandable but ultimately it doesn't hold water. That is their dad. They have a right to him, as flawed as he is. It will be tough to see the cycle of excitement/disappointment but that's life. They will have to learn and they will know something about him organically rather than their bm artificially creating some environment where he just doesn't exist.
I do wish people would stop talking about the house/college now. He cannot change it by himself nor without giving up something else. Sending a letter to remind bm to be prepared in X years is a nice gesture and can reassure his wife he is serious about holding to his divorce decree.
Now I'm stuck in typo hell.
Now I'm stuck in typo hell. }:) }:) }:) }:) }:)
#theworst
I may get over it. #possible
I may get over it. #possible
#LongSigh
#we'regood
Gunner, while I agree that
Gunner, while I agree that you seem to be doing a decent job of trying to compromise with your wife here, I think you really need to try to see things from her point of view as well.
A couple other posters comment about how you are basically throwing money at your ex, but you have stipulations and rules in place for giving extra money to your current wife now that y'all had a disagreement about a recent vacation. So honestly think, if your ex has free housing, makes about 40K a year, gets child support, you pay for your kids tuition, and any extras they need, what on EARTH is your ex going to use that extra $1000 a month on? I'm not trying to be rude here, but I think it's important that you seriously look at that, is it TRULY going to your kids? You stated above that you don't mind if your ex benefits as well from your money as long as your kids are cared for, if you can afford that, fine, however I think you owe your current wife the same. If that extra $1000 is only benefiting your ex (which I'm sure it is because I don't know what on earth she would need it for) why does your current wife not also get extra money to benefit her and her wants? Whether that's doing extra for her kids or not should be irrelevant.
Your wife sees you giving extras to your ex because it MAY POSSIBLY benefit your children, but now she also sees you taking money away from her (that you had previously provided) because it MAY POSSIBLY benefit her children. That would be a REALLY tough pill to swallow if it were me.
I commend you for going above and beyond to support your children, however if you can afford to basically also support your ex, your wife should feel fully supported as well.
Now on the other hand, I think there are many other issues beyond just money in y'alls relationship. Your children should ABSOLUTELY be allowed in your home during visitation.
Totally agree with your last
Totally agree with your last point - but don't you find that anger and resentment are often completely misdirected in step-life? I know they were for me. If she's feeling angry and resentful at her husband because of this unfair arrangement...but she directs it toward his kids instead because it's easier...don't you think it's likely that the feelings toward his kids will become kinder as they get on the same page about household finances?
I think Gunner has made some huge strides and I am hopeful for him and his wife based on this.
Yes, absolutely! Resentment
Yes, absolutely! Resentment and frustrations can VERY easily be misplaced in step life. That very well may be what her current issue with is kids is.
Absolutely agree.
Absolutely agree.
I think you are right and
I think you are right and people are wondering what that extra $1000 a month on top of everything else is going to.
Sounds like Gunner pays for every extra the kids need and they are all teenagers and probably have no problem letting him know what they need ( sports ,events , clothes etc ).
Who is to say the BM isn't just socking away the $$$ every month into a savings account.
lol. Hopefully!! Or she may
lol.
Hopefully!! Or she may find herself out on her keister in ten years with nowhere to live...
After reading this all I can
After reading this all I can say is thank God I make a good income and have never needed any man to support me and can support my kid on my own whether my ex pats his pittapittance of CD or not.
So if I'm remember this
So if I'm remember this right, she wants you to only pay for CS for your kids and nothing else. So that means all the private school would fall on your ex to cover, while you subsidize a portion of your skids tuition. Not only that, she doesn't want them around for prolonged periods of time, like your summer visitation. But she still wants you to keep providing the same level of support and comfort to her and her kids. Yea no, I certainly see errors of judgement from both of you but she basically demanded you cut your kids out of your life because she can't handle the stress of them being there. Big deal, you deal with her kids living with you full time. Snowflake will survive.
And while I don't agree with sending the extra money to ex in a way that you do, it would be a cold day in hell before I would agree to my salary going to provide a much better home and lifestyle to my SK's than my bios.
I think your list is a good starting point. I'd discuss it with her and see what she brings back to the table.
Gunner - by now you have
Gunner - by now you have received scads and scads of advice (plus a little extra). There is always more to the story here and nothing is EVER just black and white. I think it is unreasonable for Wife to require your children (that you are paying for), to not be with you - its only partial time, she needs to suck it up and work on your relationship and her communication/coping skills.
Trying to maintain that balancing act, and it sounds like you are, is going to be tough, but if its worthwhile to you, then keep pushing through. Ultimately, if it was meant to work out it will. Maybe I sound a little "out there", but I believe that we can push and work, and fight, and push some more, but if its not going to work out, its not going to work out - but, as my mother likes to say "all you can do is your best".
I cannot make judgments about that "extra $$$ you give above CS that is going I don't know where...", all I can say is that from my experience, ANY extra SO hands BM, unless it is not SPECIFICALLY for children, I get peeved about.
When we first started our relationship, and BM was getting used to not being able to mooch any more, or come over and eat, SO would drop milk, cereal and groceries off at her apartment. I was ok with it, because of the CHILDREN. Well the children reported that BM was in fact eating all the food, they got none of it. She has a live-in boyfriend now who buys food and sundry. So that's my experience. Because our finances are a LITTLE tight, I would get really upset with SO handing $1,000 cash to BM, for, oh, WHATEVER. Just because they had children together does not give carte blanche for spending, esp if the kiddos are not DIRECTLY benefiting.
BUT, my SO does not pay child support at all, and very low alimony. We live in a 3-bedroom/2 ba house with yard space, BM lives in a 2-bedroom/1 ba apartment. The youngest sleeps on a nice big couch at BMs, because the eldest took over the extra bedroom, trashes it, and never comes out. However, just after HS graduation, Eldest was told bedroom is now going to Munchkin, so she is now with us full-time, no job, no license and dirty as heck. We do not ask BM for anything extra.
But, because the lazy Eldest is his child, I am forced to put up with her being a mooch, not helping, loafing around, watching tv, being a jerk with all types of attitude and she can eat my food, without helping clean or prepare. That's my deal. He puts up with it because its his child, he has never had to pay child support towards her, or Munchkin. He pays for many things, above and beyond the 50/50 agreement, and it works out the best way - we can afford our life, and nothing really changes. I pay my own way, I work full-time, and contribute, but he basically pays for majority.
However, we are not a blended family. I think you are reasonable in expecting your wife's ex to pay something and contribute something - all you can do is ask. I don't understand why it is ok for you to shoulder the costs of children that aren't yours, if the Bio father is able and willing to. But you don't know yet, what he is willing/able to do yet, because he was never asked.
I tend to be a sort of "herding dog" type - SO was separated not divorced when we started our relationship, and during the course of the last few years, he has completed the divorce and we have a basically decent life. We can build something together.
Is the person you are currently married to, wanting to build a life with you, as an equity partner? Then she will stop playing games and learn how to communicate with you. This is the underlying issue. She has anger frustration and resentment, and is bottling it up and of course it sounds like she is ready to burst. We don't even know.
Keep us posted.
I thought crew a very long
I thought crew a very long time ago.....monkeysee
By the way, Gunner, I think
By the way, Gunner, I think it is a wonderful plan to have her go after child support from the father of her kids. It will be good for them to know he contributes to their support. At some point there will be pain over lack of contact from their bio Dad. You don't want your DW to get blamed for that by them when they are teens, when they miss him and misguidedly through their feelings at her.
If it allows them to re-engage with Dad on some level, that would be good. If he just pays and doesn't re-engage, that is ok too. If he doesn't pay willingly and the state goes after him for money, that's not great. But at least then there is an order that he should be paying his obligation.
On your wife's student loans... When I married my DH, I was on an income-based repayment plan. My student loan payment skyrocketed because of my DH's high income. Is that also happening with your wife's student loans? If so, take that into consideration when you talk about her student loans and her paying for them. If marrying you means her student loans cost more, it's because the government expects that your income will contribute to paying them off, whereas if she were single they would understand that her income isn't sufficient to pay them completely without some reduction in payment.
Just keep that in mind. I think you are on the right track here, keep it up.
Finances will usually be an
Finances will usually be an issue in a any marriage and almost always be one in a 2nd marriages when there are step kids.
As in almost all situations , 1 person is better off than the other and by being together someone benefits more financially.
I know in my situation , I am the breadwinner and I own the house. My SO and his kids gets a TON of financial benefits just by living with me. I have made it very clear to SO that anything I choose to pay for is 100% my choice and don't ever expect me to pay just because I can. I also benefit by my SO being here ( NOT talking about sex lol ).
Love is not about how much money someone has and what they spend on you. Money can bring financial security and that should make a marriage stronger. Gunner's Wife benefits a lot financially by being married to him, just as Gunner gets different benefits from her ( NOT talking about sex ). She does work , but receives no CS. In one way or another , Gunner helps support her kids. I understand her resentment of all Gunner does for his exWife even though he claims " it's all for the kids ". I feel Gunner needs to take a long hard look at that extra $1000 and how much it is really costing him. I do think ( as others have said ), a big part of the issue is that his Wife wants to feel more important than the cheating exWife.
Gunner's Wife can not tell him his kids are not allowed to be in their house ( which he owns ). Unless they are destructive / deviant little monsters - then I could understand.
StepMoms tend to have it harder. Moms in general tend to NOTICE everything any kid does. I know my SO drives me nuts when he seems to just be oblivious to what his kids do. Maybe Gunner's kids are messy and he just doesn't see it and brushes off his WIfe when she brings it up. I have a feeling 3 teenagers are very messy and disruptive at times.
I hope that counseling helps. Gunner really seems love his Wife and she probably loves him as well. But it takes far more than love to make it work. You guys need a reset and to work on compromising and communicating. And as someone else said - take a kid free vacation to re-connect. work on being friends and partners again.
Such an absurd story. Gunner
Such an absurd story.
Gunner I wish you the best.
**I hope that you run a check on your step kids bio dad. I would wager a bet that he is not so bad after all. YOU, Gunner just have a larger wheel barrel of money**
No one has objected to his
No one has objected to his wife going after CS. There's been some questions bc Gunner mentioned her fear that the bio-dad would resurface if she does so...why us she afraid of that? Abuse? If not...then, yeah. She owes it to those kids AND Gunner to pursue support, even if she doesn't get it. That's pretty much been the consensus.
high wage earner has nothing
high wage earner has nothing to do with it.
No one begrudges OP paying for his kids while they are minors.
No one is saying that his wife shouldn't go after support from her XH.
My husband is a high wage earner, and Asshat was earning millions of dollars while I was married to him and even more after we got divorced. I would have had a COW if my husband was supporting his XW 7 years after a kid graduated from high school.
I know Money-Ka would have felt the same way. It's adult support, not child support. Pay for college, great! But provide a house for your XW when no kids are actually living there because they MIGHT come home for a week from school? Ridiculous
Why should OP have to pay for everything simply because the XW won't support herself??
I have no problem with
I have no problem with anything as long as the kids are minors, but to support the XW when the kids are grown and gone?
Nope - not even a little bit.
DH used to give Medusa more than he was ordered to. I explained to him that if the court felt he needed to contribute more, they would have told him to do so
I am not convinced it is
I am not convinced it is court-ordered. He says "she knows the deal" but then talked about using 25 as an age for this reason etc. Sounds more like he sets the terms as he sees fit.
because he is supporting his
because he is supporting his XW and also giving her an additional $1000K per month over and above the CS order, paying for private school and anything else they need.
And? You're saying that a
And?
You're saying that a new marriage shouldn't change any pre-existing arrangements? That's absurd.
My DH took his 3 kids to his parents' house for spring break every year before he met me. This was an arrangement that "worked for everyone else" and that "preceded our marriage" - but seeing as how I was a teacher who got the same spring break...and wanted to enjoy the occasional skid-free vacation...I asked him to switch it to every other year...and we did. It's called compromise and it's actually pretty necessary...
I agree with you. The crazy
I agree with you. The crazy mess he's getting because he chooses to feed, shelter, educate (to whatever level he see fit!!) is completely doable based on the fact that he can afford it. The current wife picked this fight. I wish Gunner the best. He's doing the right thing BY HIS CHILDREN!
Well...because he's basing
Well...because he's basing his willingness to halve the 1K extra "shopping allowance" he sends his ex on his wife getting CS from her ex...even though he admits that doing so isn't likely to decrease standard of living for his kids one bit and even though he sees what it's doing to his marriage. In my mind, this shows that he KNOWS this $$$ is more for his ex than the kids. It makes no sense for him to say...get CS or else I renege on my offer to reduce extra support to my ex because I won't do more for another man's kids than my own!!! Because the thing is...he's NOT...even without this extra. Those who say he is just aren't thinking through the numbers. He pays for his skids to have one home, partial tuition, some extras, and no CS. For his kids he pays for two homes, full tuition, all extras, significant CS, plus 1K to the ex a month...until the youngest is 25. I'm certain he won't be supporting skids at 25, and then there's inheritance. Any way you slice it, there's absolutely no way he's providing more for his skids than his own children. So why is this extra 1K his hill to die on?
If I were his wife...this would be the crux of my issue. Why is my husband so cool about his ex benefitting because he loves and wants to provide for his kids...but he starts nitpicking and penny pinching if my kids incidentally benefit because he loves and wants to provide for me? I would start to feel like a second-class citizen and resent my husband's kids, too...because of the dynamic he set up.
This wouldn't sit well with me. By his own admission, he doesn't plan to sell that house when all kids are up and out...so he's not maintaining a bigger house specifically for his skids...it's just an incidental benefit they get because this guy married their mom. Unless he wants to kick her out? I highly doubt two kids add nearly as much to the utilities and other household expenses as CS plus free house plus all extras plus 1K monthly bonus he sends his ex...plus, he's already told us his current wife covers groceries and household necessities. Sure, her kids are there full-time and his are there 50%...but he has 50% more kids and his are also older/eat more...so that's basically a wash.
Really, any way you look at it, this idea that he's in danger of providing for his skids at the expense of his own children is just insane.
ding ding ding ding ding ding
ding ding ding ding ding ding ding!
And that is what made him
And that is what made him bring up money. His wife did not want his kids going on vacation with them, so they took separate vacations and she refused to give him back his half of the vacation fund. So, he decided to disengage from her kids, financially. He even said that he would still pay ALL of the household bills but not her kids' private school.
His wife started this bullshit.
Why would he expect his wife
Why would he expect his wife pay for HIS children to vacation from her salary when he provides money hand over fist to his cheating ex-wife and still doesn't expect her to pay a penny (of that money he gives her OR from her salary) for ANYTHING for the kids?
If both XW and DW make about $40K a year, why is the only one who is being asked to spend her salary on HIS kids the CURRENT wife, who did not give birth to them?
The vacation fund was saved
The vacation fund was saved up from her salary...that's why he had to ask for it"
He pays her student loans, so
He pays her student loans, so it is a wash and maybe he just wanted the money back he paid for her debt.
I don't get what part you
I don't get what part you don't understand.
DW is supposed to pay for the whole family's vacation, without him providing any money to that fund. So that means she is saving her salary for HER SKIDS to vacation. She has LESS money to care for her own children because she is putting money aside for the steps vacation.
Gunner pays $1000 extra a month to his XW so she can vacation with his kids, take them out to fancy dinners and let them live in the lifestyle he lives. Gunner does not think his XW should use her salary to save to take her own BIO kids on vacation or for anything else.
Why does his XW have zero responsibility for paying for her own children out of her salary, but SM does - at least in this arrangement?
Her biggest sin in regards to the vacation was not being upfront and saying that she would like to do 2 vacations, one with all the kids and one without.
This. Asking her for half of
This.
Asking her for half of the vacation fund was kind of a dick move meant to put her in her place after she expressed her feelings about his kids...he didn't need it...just wanted to show her who was boss rather than try to listen to her concerns. Now that I know the full extent to which he is doing extras for his ex, I feel like this was even more of a controlling power play.
Imagine if, instead of escalating, he had simply said...I'm going on vacation with my kids but I want to talk about this and work it all out when I get back. I want to understand where you're coming from. Do you think any of the rest of this crap would have happened?
Honestly, most NCP stepmoms feel like the skids are guests in the home. That's a very, very common feeling. It doesn't make her evil or awful...it makes her a normal person trying to cope with a not-normal situation.
Wait...so she has to feel a
Wait...so she has to feel a certain way in order to deserve care and consideration from her husband...she has to tow the line or else...and she can't speak her mind without fear of retribution? Makes no sense. Is this a marriage or a dictatorship?
Until now, I've seen nothing from gunner but my way or the highway and escalation at every turn. His wife has done the same and clearly has her own communication issues...but I don't think an attempt to express oneself should be met with punishment.
What I see here is starting to look like progress.
Things are rarely so black
Things are rarely so black and white as this.
She is not excluding his kids. She is being honest about how she feels about them. The kids are still there. She can FEEL they aren't part of her family (and they don't HAVE to be, she is not wrong for that). Families are structured in different ways.
She never said either
She never said either thing.
She said she didn't want them to come on vacation and did not decree that they can't do it. They are coming to his house for the summer and it is her kids that didn't go on vacation. She chose not to subject them to it, but she also chose not to pay for it.
I don't want my husband to work late most days, but he does and I accept it.
I don't want to spend the Holidays with my stepsiblings, but I do.
I don't want to spend money on car repairs, but I do it.
I can say I don't want to do something and then go ahead and do it anyway. It's called adulting.
She is compromising and these things ARE happening, even though she doesn't want it.
These are parts of negotiations in every marriage and every family. You are mistaking her preference for a demand/requirement. That is what I mean by things are not that black and white.
Let's break this down. She
Let's break this down.
She suggested in a passive aggressive way changing the date of the vacation to a time when only her kids (and one of his) would be available. He objected and smelled a rat. He didn't think it was for the reasons she was saying. Good for him, because it was not. There was more going on underneath the surface that needed to be addressed. He started asking questions and got some answers. Her answers were not clear enough for him to really get, because he interpreted her as wanting rules to be applied between the kids more equally. So he started applying rules to her kids because they were around that day. She wanted him to be able to read between the lines and understand her feelings. He was trying to fix the problem and somewhat passive aggressive about it, too.
That only exacerbated the feelings of HER being overlooked. He missed reading between the lines and missed that she was unhappy on more levels than backpacks and shoes. She had probably pretended for so long, he really didn't get it.
Ultimately he started threatening to cut off financial support to her when he didn't understand her behavior and perceived it as hostile. Financial support may have been the only thing left she perceived showed her how he loved her or leveled the playing field with BM. She withdrew from the vacation plans because she felt even less comfortable going now. He wanted half the money that she saved for vacation and she left in disgust, went to her sisters.
They fought. She tried to play some games in showing up late to dinner. He called her bluff. She realized that she wants her marriage to work and she shouldn't play games with him. She showed up to counseling, on time and shared honestly her perspective. Maybe for the first time ever. That can't have been easy to say if she loves Gunner. Being a SM is hard. I think stepdads don't always get how hard it is. Good for her for speaking her truth, even though they fought. That's the first step of them getting somewhere better.
He did not interpret it as a demand. He was trying to negotiate split vacations (fix the problem) if she didn't want to do the vacations at the same time with all the kids. He was trying to negotiate, but she wasn't being honest about what she wanted and why. That's when he asked for half of her saved money so he could take JUST his kids on vacation. To him, that made logical sense. To her it felt like a slap. And it wasn't "money back". It was money SHE saved to take all the kids on vacation, even though she knew it would be miserable and uncomfortable for her kids and for her. And at some point she decided she just couldn't take it and this became a "thing".
She changed her mind. She wasn't upfront. She didn't give Gunner a chance to address the problem because she pretended it wasn't there. Yep, those are all poor decisions. She is also learning now how to do differently. That is great. Gunner is learning how to listen differently, too. Also great. This is progress. Let them grow. Let them figure it out. Their family may never blend. He didn't know she was unhappy but now he does. And he loves her. And he says she loves him. So let them figure out how to compromise and renegotiate the terms of their situation. They will come to a compromise that works, mostly, for everyone. Much like I don't want my husband to work late, but he loves his work and finds value in it, so I accept that he stays late.
She can feel anyway she wants
She can feel anyway she wants to feel. And she's free to speak on it.
Just as he is free to decide how he spends the money that he earns.
This man isn't obligated to put out one red cent to help support her children. I would hope every cent he spends on the comes with strings attached. I imagine the biggest string would be one about attempting to marginalize his bios.
Well, I guess you can see it
Well, I guess you can see it that way if you want. I see it as built-up resentment over the inequity she sees between his two wives finally finding expression in some not-so-reasonable ways.
He's already said that she's willing to talk this specific issue out in counseling and work on it.
We haven't said it is RIGHT
We haven't said it is RIGHT for her to do that.
We have said that, yes, it does make sense.
Because it does. Misplaced anger and resentment is the most common form of anger and resentment.
I agree with you. I think
I agree with you.
I think there's another way to look at it.
Their arrangement was that DW uses her salary to pay for vacations for herself, gunner, her kids and his kids. She also pays for groceries and household expenses for herself, gunner, her kids and his kids.
But XW does not have to pay those things because Gunner gives her money for all that, in high child support, extra money and free rent.
Why is current W paying things for Gunner's kids while cheating XW doesn't have to?
That really would a no go for me. At the beginning I thought she was being unreasonable, but I have more understanding now.
She also pays for groceries
She also pays for groceries and household expenses for herself, gunner, her kids and his kids.
HE pays ALL of the household expenses, she pays for groceries and HER own kids' extras. He also pays his wife's personal bills (student loans, cell phone, credit cards, etc.).
so, if she is paying for the
so, if she is paying for the household groceries, he doesn't pay all household expenses now, does he?
In my house, our grocery bill is bigger than our gas/electricity/cable combined.
Okay, I will word it
Okay, I will word it differently. He pays for all the household expenses, except for groceries.
Gas, electric, and cable, are hardly all that it takes to maintain a household. Is your grocery bill more than your gas, electric, cable, mortgage or rent, homeowners' or rental insurance, car payment (if applicable), car insurance, property/real estate taxes, maintenance, etc.?
If he's being honest, his wife is pretty much financially supported by him.
and his XW is being
and his XW is being *completely* supported by him.
She gets thousands in CS a month plus $1000 more to buy their groceries with.
Current W's salary goes towards household expenses for all, including skids.
Cheating XW is not expected to use her salary for her own kids.
That would be hard to swallow.
Gunner likes a lifestyle she can't afford on her own. So does my Dad, with my SM. My Dad can afford it, as can Gunner. It doesn't make sense for the SM in either case to stress over making her salary stretch so far when his stretches to pay 100% of his kids expenses at another home, such that he knows that cutting $500 from the extras he pays his XW won't impact his kid's standard of living one bit. He even thinks he may be able to cut that out entirely, because he knows how much he pays in child support and rent already.
That is not how I read this:
That is not how I read this: I pay all the household bills and my wife pays for extras and the food bill.
Extras are household expenses.
And to pay a food bill is no minor thing with 5 teen kids in the home in the summer and EOW!
She has full time custody.
She has full time custody. The kids literally go wherever she lives. If he wants her to live with him, then the kids come too.
It should go both ways, but her resentment is causing her to reject the kids. She's planting her flag on the wrong hill, but I understand the feeling of frustration.
I'll bet that bit of
I'll bet that bit of chauvinism was part of her attraction to him. He's a high earning man who's willing to practically fully support her and her kids, paying all of the bills.
She probably thought it was great, at first, that he paid all of his children's expenses and then some, a man who is able and willing, to pay the way for those he loves, above what he's ordered. That's a good catch for a single mom, with an ex who doesn't pay child support and is not involved.
Except now, after a few years in, she doesn't like it so much. She only wants him to pay for her and her children to have the good life. She doesn't even want his kids around.
I get the resentment towards his ex, living for free in that house, but that is between Gunner and his ex and it is not his wife's call. Besides, 25% of the house is his ex wife's (I believe that's her portion when they sell it).
I have no issue with that.
I have no issue with that. Gunner SHOULD have some say if he is paying...if the kids don't like it ..ummmm....work and get loans and PAY for it yourself. Since when do people on here feel that college is something the NCP or CP should have to pay for?
I sense some hate going on because Gunner is a high wage earner with a penis.
Gunner, maybe you should just
Gunner, maybe you should just flat out ask your wife if she hates your kids bc of the financial situation or if its just bc they exist.
Since that is what everyone thinks is the problem, and you never once stated that she is upset about money, you need to find out what if that is really the problem.
She doesn't want CS from her EX. She doesn't want her kids around her EX. Maybe she just feels that your kids bust the 'one big happy family' bubble she is existing in and you are the Daddy.
Actually, he's stated many
Actually, he's stated many times that she's upset that he sends so much extra to his ex. Today is the first time we've seen actual numbers.
Actually, he's stated many
Actually, he's stated many times that she's upset that he sends so much extra to his ex. Today is the first time we've seen actual numbers.
THIS x the amount of
THIS x the amount of Gunner's monthly support to the cheating XW!
His CS obligation for 3 kids
His CS obligation for 3 kids is probably FAR more than 1,000.
OURS was about 1K for 3 kids, and DH was unemployed at the time...
What if one of the older kids
What if one of the older kids marries? Let's say at age 23? OP would still be "supporting" this adult via payments to his XW, another ADULT who could be and should be contributing to the costs of HER own kids...
As I have said before, Asshat was a millionaire when I was married to him. I got a significant amount of child support, but I went back to school, and back to work so I could contribute to their costs as well. It never occurred to me to shirk my responsibilities because Asshat made a shit ton of money.
smdh