For those who believe they are dealing with a 'Disordered' BM
*The following blog entry is based solely on my own research, with help from a qualified professional in the mental health field. I share it here, b/c I see many SM's dealing with behaviors that I recognize within my own situation.
No mentally stable mother will outright choose to damage her child(ren), no matter how hurt or angry she may be. When you witness this type of behavior, there is usually something bigger at play. This is why I went in search of answers.
Keep in mind that drug and alcohol addiction often cloud a persons judgment and make them irrational. This is a different animal than simply being 'disordered.' *Though drug and alcohol addiction can and does exist within the 'disordered' mind and is often used as an escape or an excuse.
When trying to decipher the actions of the BM in your own situations, please remember that a 'Disordered' mind displays a PERVASIVE pattern of behaviors that will be PREVELENT in MOST, if not ALL areas of their lives, and not just in regards to the children.
While we may believe a 'disorder' exists, we are not professionals and should not attempt to DX the BM. Doing so could seriously backfire and leave you looking like the monster causing the problems. So, better to keep your beliefs about your specific BM away from the kids, therapists, and family friends who may go back and repeat your opinions and feelings. I surely wouldn't want anyone here hurt any further by BM hostilities.
Since so many here are dealing with possible PAS, I will begin there as it pertains to the 'disordered mind.'
Many of you no doubt will recognize the following links (if you've already been researching yourself.) If not, I hope they may help you in some way.
http://samvak.tripod.com/abuse12.html
Leveraging The Children:
"The abuser often recruits his children to do his bidding. He uses them to tempt, convince, communicate, threaten, and otherwise manipulate his target, the children's other parent or a devoted relative (e.g., grandparents). He controls his - often gullible and unsuspecting - offspring exactly as he plans to control his ultimate prey. He employs the same mechanisms and devices. And he dumps his props unceremoniously when the job is done - which causes tremendous (and, typically, irreversible) emotional hurt."
http://samvak.tripod.com/abuse13.html
Tell Your Children The Truth:
Most victims attempt to present to their children a "balanced" picture of the relationship and of the abusive spouse. In a vain attempt to avoid the notorious (and controversial) Parental Alienation Syndrome (PAS), they do not besmirch the abusive parent and, on the contrary, encourage the semblance of a normal, functional, liaison. This is the wrong approach. Not only is it counterproductive – it sometimes proves outright dangerous.
http://samvak.tripod.com/abuse11.html
Abuse By Proxy:
If all else fails, the abuser recruits friends, colleagues, mates, family members, the authorities, institutions, neighbours, the media, teachers – in short, third parties – to do his bidding. He uses them to cajole, coerce, threaten, stalk, offer, retreat, tempt, convince, harass, communicate and otherwise manipulate his target. He controls these unaware instruments exactly as he plans to control his ultimate prey. He employs the same mechanisms and devices. And he dumps his props unceremoniously when the job is done.
http://samvak.tripod.com/abuse10.html
Ambient Abuse... Why some men (or women) never understand what hit them:
Ambient abuse is the stealth, subtle, underground currents of maltreatment that sometimes go unnoticed even by the victims themselves, until it is too late. Ambient abuse penetrates and permeates everything – but is difficult to pinpoint and identify. It is ambiguous, atmospheric, diffuse. Hence its insidious and pernicious effects. It is by far the most dangerous kind of abuse there is.
http://samvak.tripod.com/faq5.html
Narcissistic Parents:
Narcissistic parents treat their children as extensions, or mere instruments of gratification. They disrespect the child’s emerging boundaries and are, thus, abusive.
Narcissistic parents control and emotionally blackmail their offspring and instill in them guilt, shame and co-dependence.
*Note* The use of 'HIM' .... The abuser can and is often times a FEMALE.
Yes, it is widely known that Sam Vankin is a self purported Narcissist. With such knowledge in hand, feeling a bit weary about anything he says is understandable. It is my feeling (along with many reputable Psychologists) that his motives for sharing the inner workings of his 'disorder', affords him endless Narcissistic supply. He offers something - he gets something back... a sort of 'quid pro quo' so to speak. Regardless of where you stand on his motives, his words still have value, as his observations about PAS have been well documented by mental health professionals.
My personal book suggestion for everyone in this situation is:
Understanding the Borderline Mother: Helping Her Children Transcend the Intense, Unpredictable, and Volatile Relationship. ~Dr. Christine Lawson~
I liked this book and found it extremely informative. No matter which PD your BM may suffer from, this book will take you in to the 4 basic profiles of the deeply troubled mind of the disordered mother.
Another good source of information is Nina Brown. She was most helpful to me when I was trying to find the cause of BM's instability.
http://www.wmeades.com/id211.htm
More to come on the various Personality Disorders
- distorted reality's blog
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Borderline Personality
Borderline Personality Disorder:
http://psychcentral.com/lib/2007/symptoms-of-borderline-personality-diso...
Symptoms of Borderline Personality Disorder:
Frantic efforts to avoid real or imagined abandonment
A pattern of unstable and intense interpersonal relationships characterized by alternating between extremes of idealization and devaluation
Identity disturbance, such as a significant and persistent unstable self-image or sense of self
Impulsivity in at least two areas that are potentially self-damaging (e.g., spending, sex, substance abuse, reckless driving, binge eating)
Recurrent suicidal behavior, gestures, or threats, or self-mutilating behavior
Emotional instability due to significant reactivity of mood (e.g., intense episodic dysphoria, irritability, or anxiety usually lasting a few hours and only rarely more than a few days)
Chronic feelings of emptiness
Inappropriate, intense anger or difficulty controlling anger (e.g., frequent displays of temper, constant anger, recurrent physical fights)
Transient, stress-related paranoid thoughts or severe dissociative symptoms
Narcissistic Personality Disorder:
http://psychcentral.com/disorders/sx36.htm
Symptoms of Narcissistic Personality Disorder:
In order for a person to be diagnosed with narcissistic personality disorder (NPD) they must meet five or more of the following symptoms:
Has a grandiose sense of self-importance (e.g., exaggerates achievements and talents, expects to be recognized as superior without commensurate achievements)
Is preoccupied with fantasies of unlimited success, power, brilliance, beauty, or ideal love
Believes that he or she is "special" and unique and can only be understood by, or should associate with, other special or high-status people (or institutions)
Requires excessive admiration
Has a very strong sense of entitlement, e.g., unreasonable expectations of especially favorable treatment or automatic compliance with his or her expectations
Is exploitative of others, e.g., takes advantage of others to achieve his or her own ends
Lacks empathy, e.g., is unwilling to recognize or identify with the feelings and needs of others
Is often envious of others or believes that others are envious of him or her
Regularly shows arrogant, haughty behaviors or attitudes
Histrionic Personality Disorder:
http://psychcentral.com/disorders/sx17.htm
Symptoms of Histrionic Personality Disorder:
A pervasive pattern of excessive emotionality and attention seeking, beginning by early adulthood and present in a variety of contexts, as indicated by five (or more) of the following:
Is uncomfortable in situations in which he or she is not the center of attention
Interaction with others is often characterized by inappropriate sexually seductive or provocative behavior
Displays rapidly shifting and shallow expression of emotions
Consistently uses physical appearance to draw attention to themselves
Has a style of speech that is excessively impressionistic and lacking in detail
Shows self-dramatization, theatricality, and exaggerated expression of emotion
Is highly suggestible, i.e., easily influenced by others or circumstances
Considers relationships to be more intimate than they actually are.
Antisocial Personality Disorder:
http://psychcentral.com/disorders/sx7.htm
Symptoms of Antisocial Personality Disorder:
Antisocial personality disorder is diagnosed when a person's pattern of antisocial behavior has occurred since age 15 (although only adults 18 years or older can be diagnosed with this disorder) and consists of the majority of these symptoms:
Failure to conform to social norms with respect to lawful behaviors as indicated by repeatedly performing acts that are grounds for arrest
Deceitfulness, as indicated by repeated lying, use of aliases, or conning others for personal profit or pleasure
Impulsivity or failure to plan ahead
Irritability and aggressiveness, as indicated by repeated physical fights or assaults
Reckless disregard for safety of self or others
Consistent irresponsibility, as indicated by repeated failure to sustain consistent work behavior or honor financial obligations
Lack of remorse, as indicated by being indifferent to or rationalizing having hurt, mistreated, or stolen from another.
____________________________________________________________________________
Most of the time it is impossible to distinguish between these PD's. The BM in your situation may be severely afflicted or may have a lesser pronounced range of behaviors. Your BM may be high functioning and thus harder to pinpoint. She may be lower functioning and you could pick out her PD a mile away. The BM may be a cluster of ANY or ALL of the above.
YOU CAN NOT REASON WITH A DISORDERED MIND!
YOU WILL NOT CHANGE THIS PERSON NO MATTER WHAT YOU DO!
The best you can hope for is to learn everything you can and pay attention to specific patterns of behavior. Once you do that, life will get easier. Since this person is not willing to change, YOU will have to change the way YOU deal with this person. Only then, will you find peace.
You can not save a child that is not yours to save. You can worry about that child, you can love that child, you can form a bond with that child (if the child is willing), and you can support your partner. That is ALL you can do. The rest you simply have to give to a higher power. If you can remember that you're dealing with an IRRATIONAL MIND, you can manage to avoid the pitfalls and traps the BM will attempt to lay out for you. Maybe that's the best we can hope for.
If this helps just one person, then I have done my part and paid it forward. I hope you'll do the same. Feel free to add your own links, comments, or personal experiences.
Take care and God bless!
Here's a GREAT read for the
Here's a GREAT read for the Guilty Dad's out there. Feel free to share with your partners...
http://www.angelfire.com/biz/BPD/blackmail.html
Yep....explains it very well.
Yep....explains it very well. Yep, it's all very destructive when the birth parent's hate for the ex and their new spouse is greater than the love for thier children.
That's happened with us. Husband's ex was so hateful and ugly. Did everything imagineable, then left town with the kids. Tried turn his parents on my husband, turn his kids against him...went out of her way sobbing on anyone that looked remotely interested. Lies that caught up with her.
Then this is what happened. Every hateful thing she said, every ugly lie she spread came back on her kids 10 fold. Her ugly mouth jinxed her kids.
Then, after having tried to alienate us and finding it didn't work, she wanted to then be friends. "Let's be a family"! As if we're going to allow her any insight to what we're doing.
Thanks, but no psycho beast mother!! Please don't even look or act like you know us.
"Yep, it's all very
"Yep, it's all very destructive when the birth parent's hate for the ex and their new spouse is greater than the love for thier children."
Massively destructive and damaging beyond belief to everyone involved. The best you can do, is to avoid allowing her access back in to your life. If she is truly disordered, her attempts at playing nice will take a backseat to more drama pretty quickly. You know your situation better than anyone, so you need to do what's best for you and your family.
Thanks for sharing your experience.
I have posted on this sort of
I have posted on this sort of information before and I really try not to-but as a psychotherapist for 15 years sometimes its hard for me to keep my mouth shut.
And I was pleased that you put in your post that one should not try to dx their bm and that this could seriously backfire.
I agree. I didnt go to school for 6 years for nothing. It takes more than reading a book or even several to determine whether someone has a personality disorder. I personally believe that putting labels on people in our life are not particularly helpful-especially since those labels are our own personal opinions and not fact. However, that being said if reading any sort of book helps one to find new ways to deal with any difficult person in their life in a helpful manner then I think that is great.
One of my main issues with this sort of talk is that it really tends to demonize the bm or just make her off as completely crazy. Now, I understand that some of you feel like you are dealing with demons and in some cases it is really bad-but certainly not all.
Divorce, remarriage, stepfamilies-it seems to bring out the worst in many of us. I dont like the bm, I think she has done some very inappropriate things but I am also very aware that I tend to see the very worst side of her. Dealing with your exspouse and his new wife is stressful and as I said brings out the worst in a person. Throw in a child who likes to manipulate-which adds fuel to the fire as he reports bad things about the bm/sm/dh in an attempt to gain sympathy. These things are super easy to believe, because you dont like the other person anyway and there is no real communciation involved and you are already engaged in a sort of antagonistic situation. I know my bm is NOT a horrible person. She most certainly has her share of issues, but she also I am sure has her share of positives-I am just rarely exposed to them. We also as sm's hear our dh's version of their relationship, breakup, etc. It is human nature to present ourselves in a positive light (especially when entering into a new relationship)so we never truly know the full story.
We can't determine that someone has a mental illness based on this small, narrow view that we see of them. And certainly we are not objective bystanders when making this determination. Even if we just 'diagnose" for our own benefit and don't share with anyone-we have labeled that individual in our mind and everytime they do something that we disagree with it becomes "part of her disorder". Never that she may have a valid point, or perhaps there is a reason she is feeling this way-but she's just crazy!
None of us are perfect. I can stand up and admit there have been a few times over the last 10 years that I have behaved in a manner that I regret toward the bm. I have never done anything way out there-but there are simply times when I behaved like a bitch when there was no real reason to other than my own various resentments. I know my dh (when he was cp)at times did not allow 'extra" visitation due to his resentment issues toward bm or there were times in which he made things difficult for her when he did not have to. On the flip side, I know she has talked poorly about me to ss, that is has certainly shaped his thinking of me-but I also 100 percent believe that she had no clue what the outcome of those comments would be. SS absolutely wants nothing to do with me now. Her comments have stopped-several years ago in fact, but the damage has already been done. Has this hurt ss? Absolutely. He lost out on a relationship with a person that loved him (me!)and it has damaged his relationships with his siblings at this house as well as his father. In his effort to reject me he has ended up rejecting us all. Do I think that bm truly understood how all this was going to play out? No, I dont think she had an idea. Do I think she is a narcissist or an abuser because of it? No, I really dont. I just think she was a woman who felt very insecure at one point because her child was developing a strong bond with another woman. Another woman that she felt was actually a more competent mother than her. In her insecurity she made statements and comments to make me appear bad. However, at no point do I feel like the bm knowingly sat down and plotted to use her child to cause pain for me or my dh.
I guess I could label her as a narcissist, or an abuser, or a PASer. Or a borderline pd. But to what benefit? In the end I find it more helpful just to see her as another human being. Who like all of us, had made mistakes, has weaknesses, but who also has positives that I just havent had the opportunity to see. It doesnt mean I like her, or want to be her friend-but it does help me be a little more understanding.
You have made extremely valid
You have made extremely valid points and I thank you immensely for adding your personal and professional experience to this topic.
I totally understand your concern as a psychotherapist, to see this abject labeling of ANY/ALL 'problem' BM's as 'disordered', by people, (SM's, BF's, etc.) who may not have the most objective views when it comes to dealing with a BM who may be acting out of hurt, anger, emotional immaturity, etc.
It is important to remember that there is a certain amount of emotional volleyball between divorcing parents and that usually gets amped up when either parent remarries or begins to date. Seldom do we see divorces where BOTH party's are in agreement for the end of the marriage/relationship. And so, it is necessary to keep this in mind.
My intention is not to help anyone DX their BM. It is to show the common threads when dealing with BM's who are exhibiting the most extreme behaviors that (as I stated) are 'Pervasive in All or Most areas of their lives and NOT just in regards to the children.' It is my hope that anyone taking the time to research any of the behaviors they are seeing with the BM, will be honest in their assessment, (although I know as humans we are fallible and governed more by emotion than logic many times
) I also hoped that by sharing my own experience with a truly Disordered BM, I could get a point across that while you can not change another person's actions, you CAN change your reactions to said person, and by doing so, change the situation to a degree.... somehow make it more bearable. If it helps to disengage from the problem BM, then all the better. 
Very good point and exactly
Very good point and exactly my thinking when I began my research several years ago. It helped me tremendously.... knowing what to expect. It brought a sense peace to my mind, b/c I could not fathom as a human being, how this person could be so inherently evil with EVERYONE in her life, let alone young children. BM in my case was leveraging the children their entire lives and she had been waging a smear campaign against SO during their entire marriage. This is what convinced me that she wasn't acting out of hurt or anger. It was merely her character in general. :jawdrop:
Well, now isn't that just
Well, now isn't that just sugary sweet with a happy face thrown in....and a no where answer. God, I'd been pissed if I'd seen you and paid money for that kind of an therapy information.
"It doesnt mean I like her, or want to be her friend-but it does help me be a little more understanding".
He lost out on a relationship with a person that loved him (me!)and it has damaged his relationships with his siblings at this house as well as his father. In his effort to reject me he has ended up rejecting us all.
I can stand up and admit there have been a few times over the last 10 years that I have behaved in a manner that I regret toward the bm. I have never done anything way out there-but there are simply times when I behaved like a bitch when there was no real reason......
Who's the narcissist here?
Cookoo Cookoo!!
Ok ladies... we have to play
Ok ladies... we have to play nice here or they'll shut down a perfectly good blog that could be beneficial to some people.
There is room for everyone's opinions, thoughts, feelings and experiences... so long as it doesn't get too negative. I understand that past issues may have left us feeling raw and disgusted with our situations. Let's keep the focus on the positive side of this equation.
Please?
Ok so I am in a situation of
Ok so I am in a situation of PAS with my step kids and my hubby is suffering so much.
I decided to go to grad school to study Mental Health Counseling and my emphasis is truama and grief in children. This type of psychological abuse to the children and alientated parent is exactly why I chose this. As I began I wanted to find everything to explain why BM is doing what she is doing. Then I discovered if I am going to work with these children then I am going to work with the BM's as well. So I needed to change my outlook. I decided....
I can be upset and hate our BM that we deal with. Or I can say she is a person and I need to understand where she is coming from. To best see what I can do to be the best support to my SK's.
So yes it may seem like the counseling professional didnt address what you wanted him/her to. However, I can tell you that the BM no matter how evil she seems is a person too. With that at times our anger can become clouded in our judgement of them. I have found with the BM I deal with, I say deal with because at this time I am dealing..... She was taught her behaviors from her mother. That has been the hardest for us. To see BM as a person as well. But when I did things became so much more easy on our side. I am not as stressed and I have learned that I am not perfect I am not healthy when I am so angry at the BM. I also decided that no matter what I can not be effective to help these children through the mess that has been caused for them, they didnt have a choice. I cant help them if I am not healthy in dealing with my life.
Hope that helps
"I can be upset and hate our
"I can be upset and hate our BM that we deal with. Or I can say she is a person and I need to understand where she is coming from. To best see what I can do to be the best support to my SK's."
I commend you for trying to be as supportive of your sk's as you possibly can. It seems that you've found a way to be positive in a situation I'm sure, has been difficult.
"However, I can tell you that the BM no matter how evil she seems is a person too. With that at times our anger can become clouded in our judgement of them."
For my personal situation, I no longer view BM as a person. I don't view her as a human being. I see her for what she is.... a bottomless dark chasm. Totally devoid of empathy, compassion, or real human emotion. She is a vampire who readily feeds off of anyone, including her own children. In my eyes, she is not deserving of sympathy or understanding. That's just my take on it. Since SO went totally NO Contact, she has been much easier to deal with. Sure she jumps up at us every so often but, her ability to cause such harm has been diminished greatly
.
Thanks for adding your experience!
I'm sure those who are
I'm sure those who are dealing with the 'extreme' BM, will see characteristics of the many disorders. It helps to understand what you may be dealing with and it makes sense to plan accordingly. (And yes, you can slay the dragon IF you know how.)
These 'types' of people do not change willingly. Even if they sustain an injury to their overly sensitized ego's, and seem to be remorseful, they are predominantly unable to remain in the realm of normalcy for very long.
I personally, have been extended the proverbial olive branch on more than one occasion... only to be lured back in to it's lair, for another round of crazymaking. NOT fun! }:)