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POLL!!!! How many people here are Americans and how many are Canadians, and how many are Other?

vgill's picture

I have been reading blogs and I am curious, it just seems to me that people who live in the USA have more financial problems with a divorce than those who live in Cananda. I believe ther is quite a difference between the 2 countries divorce laws where support payments are concerened.

Comments

Kb3Hooah's picture

I live in the US - I'm divorced with 2 children, I don't receive Child Support because their Father chooses not to work to avoid paying it, but I manage to support my children on my own.

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“Some cause happiness wherever they go; others whenever they go.”

Kb3Hooah's picture

Tell me about it - it's hard to even get anyone on the phone, then you have to leave a message and they have 30days to call you back. It's so frustrating.

___________________________________________________________________________
“Some cause happiness wherever they go; others whenever they go.”

Kb3Hooah's picture

In the USA, from my understanding, the laws not only vary from state to state but they can also vary depending on the county as well.

------------> That is correct

___________________________________________________________________________
“Some cause happiness wherever they go; others whenever they go.”

Kb3Hooah's picture

I'm from the south too windee, and you pretty much summed it up.

___________________________________________________________________________
“Some cause happiness wherever they go; others whenever they go.”

soverysad's picture

I'm in the States. Our county is more pro 50/50 than most counties in my state, but still leans toward the mother (gave Wingnut 50/50 even with professional evidence that she engages in alienation, filed false claims and is causing her child severe anxiety). The biggest problem here is the control Wingnut had over the timing of finalizing the divorce. It took 3 years because she didn't want to get a job and because when the divorce finalized she lost about $1400 monthly support (the rules on pre-divorce maintenance are different than post divorce). The asset split was very fair (50/50). Alimony is temporary (longer than I'd like, but at least its not forever). CS is based on the earning capacity of both parents (so even though Wingnut didn't work, she was tagged with an amount close to what she made during her last year of work).

The biggest issue in the states is the "first family first" idea that the x's first family is more important than his current family.

I will say that we were fortunate because my dh had the money to fight and the flexible work hours to continue to go to court. I think many men in this country give up and just give the bm what she wants (in terms of custody and support and asset distribution) because they can't afford a good attorney to help them navigate the system and learn that they have rights too.

"A pessimist complains about the wind, an optimist counts on the wind changing, a realist adjusts his sails"

Milomom's picture

Soverysad, I just wanted to say that I agree with you 1000% about the reason why most men in this country get "screwed" (in terms of custody, support, asset distribution, etc...).

Most men here in the US either don't have enough money to fight for their rights (legal fees for a GOOD lawyer in the US are astronomical, considering the subject matter that they are dealing with)...or they start out with the money and the fortitude to fight for their rights and end up financially drained, emotionally frustrated and just plain defeated, so they just end up giving up. Some men last in the fight longer than others (like a boxing match...how many rounds can you last before the "knockout punch" by the courts??).

Also, you are so right about men not only needing the money to fight, but also the TIME that is required in this bureaucratic country (paperwork, court appearances, keeping records/journals to be used in court, etc...). The laws in the US are against the father/non-custodial parent the MAJORITY of the time, so it takes a good amount of time to "build up" your case. Isn't that a little contradictory, since MOST men are out there busting their asses WORKING 40-70 hours a week to pay the astronomical child support (&/or maintenance/alimony) every month? How are they supposed to do both? How are they supposed to do it all? Sometimes it is physically impossible, so again, they just give up and just become complacent and just pay & pay & pay - all because if they don't, they'll be seen as "deadbeat dads" here in the US.

As you can see, soverysad, your post hit a "sore spot" with me, because I cannot STAND the current child support laws in this state (NY) & in this country. Even when the man has 50/50 joint custody with the mother, even when the woman/mother cheats & lies during the marriage to CAUSE the divorce, PAS the kids, etc..., if she makes LESS than the man, she'll walk away with plenty of money in the divorce. She'll reap the rewards...

Makes me sick.....

TheWife's picture

The divorce laws here are what make me thank my lucky stars every single day that BM and DH were never married.

~*~When you kiss ass, your breath smells like sh*t~*~

soverysad's picture

Its a huge sore spot for me too. If it weren't for me, even with the amount of money my dh makes, he wouldn't have been able to fight it. The courts make the worker bee pay the sit at home mom enough money so they can keep fighting (that is the whole point of spousal maintenance - to enable a non-working spouse to retain good counsel) and then they have no time to go to court to defend themselves. My dh spent nearly $100K on his divorce and went to court 9 times (sometimes those cases were more than one day), missed days for home studies, psychologist appts., had to leave work early another 50 times for co-parent counseling, had to be "supervised" 2 1/2 hours from home each weekend for 8 months, which meant we both left work early every single Friday for those eight months just so we can be together and see his kid.

Our lives were HELL for nearly 3 years, while she collected $5K a month in support, dragged us to court on a whim, and had the nerve to CRY about how taxing the process was on her! She had complete control over everything for much of this time because the courts won't even try a custody case until you do mediation, which of course is only as effective as the least rational person, so it was useless. She threatened, bullied, kicked, cried and manipulated to get the court to see how "unreasonable" dh was to try to maximize the sympathy and get everything. She wanted full custody, full support, full alimony, 100% of everything HE earned during their marriage, all attorney's fees, and for him to pay tuition for her to get a degree and she felt HE was being UNREASONABLE for fighting this??? He fought it and while she didn't exactly get screwed, she got what was fair (50% of everything) and what dh offered her in the beginning. If dh didn't have time or money, she would have got most of what she wanted because the courts pressure people into settling by allowing things to drag out and allowing people who don't have JOBS to continue to insist on court dates, etc. causing the other person to miss work.

UGH!!

"A pessimist complains about the wind, an optimist counts on the wind changing, a realist adjusts his sails"

Milomom's picture

Windee...I feel so sick to my stomach when I hear stories like that. It just is completely backwards & makes no sense for her to walk away with everything when she CAUSED the divorce in the first place (NO excuses...sorry!!). Why should HE have to "start all over" again...literally??? SHE should be held accountable & responsible for her actions - and SHE should have given up everything.

I feel the exact same way. I would never be able to be friends with a woman like that ever again - no morals, no ethics, no conscience...disgusting. I hope she gets what she deserves in the end...

See my reply above - I was just saying the same thing. I just don't get it...

TheWife's picture

Chicago here.

It doesn't seem like there are many other mid westerners on here. My DH was never married, but CS is calculated at 20%, and your spouse's income isn't factored in at all. My DH doesn't pay 20% for several different reasons, but that is the standard here. And Illinois is very pro-BM.

~*~When you kiss ass, your breath smells like sh*t~*~

Rags's picture

Uniform Child Custody Jurisdiction And Enforcement Act is the national governing law in this situation.

All US states and territories are signatories to the act with the exeption of Mass, VT and Puerto Rico.

It basically locks jurisdiction for a Custody/Visitation/Support case in the childs original area of jurisdiction.

And yes, there are differences between the states and between jurisdictions within each state.

Best regards,

Success is rarely final. Failure is rarely fatal. It is character, courage and consistency of effort that count. Vince Lombardi (with some minor Rags modifications) To each according to their performance, screw Karl Marx. (Rags)

jenjen's picture

Minnesota here. CS is calculated taking into account both parents income, with an adjustment for parenting time. However, this is how it goes....

Less then 10% - No adjustment for time, pay based on PICS & cost to raise amt of kids at combined income (there's a table) then they take that number and divide based on PICS (% of combined income)
10-45 - 12% adjustment, same as above with 12% adjustment
45-50 - 75% of cost to raise amt of kids at combined income (there's a table) then they take that 75% number and divide based on PICS(% of combined income)

Its more fair then it was pre 2007. But higher earner with majority parenting time can still end up paying CS to lower income earner...even if they have the kids more time.

soverysad's picture

In PA, you get no break unless the ncp has 40% custody and even then they get an 8% deduction. Even with 50/50 custody, we pay $900 a month.

"A pessimist complains about the wind, an optimist counts on the wind changing, a realist adjusts his sails"

jenjen's picture

"45-50 - 75% of cost to raise amt of kids at combined income (there's a table) then they take that 75% number and divide based on PICS(% of combined income)"

I had this one wrong, its actually the same as the others - & you get a 45% reduction.

So in otherwords, if you have your kids 44% of the time, you get a 12% reduction, if you have them 46%, you get a 45% reduction (the difference in time is one week) and a 33% more reduction for that week.

I just realized. With the change during the summer, (us having M-F and EOWE) we actually have 41.6%....I bet BM calc'd that to make sure she remained under the 45% mark!

soverysad's picture

I'm sure she did! This is also why she'll give you a hard time about 50/50 custody.

"A pessimist complains about the wind, an optimist counts on the wind changing, a realist adjusts his sails"

jenjen's picture

Yeah. It'll be fun!

How is she going to explain to a judge that 41% custody is great, but its detrimental to the kids to be with their father another 5%??

She can only make it about money and if they get the judge I had with mine he will not stand for it.

soverysad's picture

Most judges aren't too pleased when someone outright makes it about money. I am hoping that is the case with us because after enough precedent has been set with Creature being here while Wingnut works, we're going to petition to modify custody to what it actually is vs. what the last co says and get cs modified AND I know at that point she'll "offer" to get a babysitter rather than give up the money.

"A pessimist complains about the wind, an optimist counts on the wind changing, a realist adjusts his sails"

Wicked.Witchy.Woman's picture

You can also ask for a modification to the court order that she has to give you first rights to "watch" creature and if you're not available than she can get a babysitter. That would eliminate that choice for her.

HeatherM's picture

Canada - Calgary, Alberta Canada - Although it seems to vary from province to province it's only a slight variation. My ex and I share my son 50/50 and it's based on Annual salary. So, he makes more money than me, I still make a good living, because it's 50/50 he has to pay me the difference which turns out to be $130 per mos. So...not much, but it can get expensive, for instance if my son decides to go live with his dad full time, it would be based soley on my salary, and I would therefore have to pay him $700 per mos (or a little more). They do not take into consideration that he lives in a 1MM home that is fully paid for and has no debt and makes a ton more $$ than me. The only way I would be able to get out of paying is if I took a job for under $25,000 I believe. Anyways...that's not the case, but that is how it works.

TheWife's picture

Dr. Laura can take a long walk off a short pier. What, they are supposed to stay miserable with a crazy wench? Or here is the alternative, I will divorce her, just to live at poverty level until all my kids turn 18, or I find some poor, unsuspecting woman-naive about CS laws- that will take me in and supplement my income with hers. All the while I will still have to cater to my first wife because Dr. Laura agrees with first family first.

BTW, my first wife can go off and have as many kids as she wants and be happy because nobody gives a f*ck if she doesn't put her first family first.

~*~When you kiss ass, your breath smells like sh*t~*~

Rags's picture

Born in CA. Moved to the Middle East when I was 4yo. Grew up there until High School. HS in CO and MO, college and grad school in AZ and TX.

SS Custody/Visitation/Support case is in OR which I have to say is populated by the biggest bunch of Lib morons I have ever encountered. Idiot parents get off lightly while responsible parents are put through the ringer, embarrassed, chastized and victimized by the idiots in the family law system. We are the responsible ones in this situation while BioDad has 4 out-of-wedlock spawn by 3 different mothers none of which he raises or pays CS on. The SpermGrandParents pay his CS on SS and raise the three younger ones in their home while their idiot son lives rent free in one of their rental properties while they finance his endless quest to impregnate every available womb in the Pac NW.

Success is rarely final. Failure is rarely fatal. It is character, courage and consistency of effort that count. Vince Lombardi (with some minor Rags modifications) To each according to their performance, screw Karl Marx. (Rags)

HeatherM's picture

Dr. Laura is hilarious...but she's an old fashioned bitch ... I listen to her in the car on road trips because she makes me angry...and keeps me on my toes. Her husband probably wanted to leave her at some point, or had an affair and that is why she preaches about the importance of 'first family'...whatev.. just venting.

sadstepmom26's picture

Mesquite, Texas here. My DH has "joint-custody". But she doesnt exercise her visitation. She doesnt have to pay medical or anything, but it was also written up that DH has final say about visitation and everything that has to do with the kids. She signed it and agreed to it so she wouldnt have to pay CS. what a dork!

usade's picture

American in Germany here...and divorce with kids involved is just as nasty as in the States or in Canada...I just deleted everything else I typed up because it's just so ugly (regarding the system here) that I don't want my name attached to it.

bioandstep2009's picture

Born in France, grew up in the Caribbean, have lived for half my life now in the southeast U.S. Where I grew up, there isn't much in terms of child support enforcement so men are free to impregnate at will and run as fast in the opposite direction from financial responsibilities. Then they repeat it. It's a disturbing cycle.

Angel72's picture

Canada, quebec. The divorce laws are not bad here. Cs is calculated through table. Any other stuff has to be delt with in court and can be place in divorce decree. So as long as you smart and think of things ahead its great...but still divorce is a shitty process and if one bioparent is a pain , the other suffers regardless of laws. That's just the way it is. And unfortunately the laws still side with bm's. Most of the time , unless proven sh'e unfit. They are changin though. Law came out several years ago stating that the first family cannot cause hardship on the second. So if you prove it, cs is cut off completely. Or drastically reduced.
I had a friend who only recieved 63$ from her ex....she was tight with cash...but he wenton and had 4 kids with his second wife. My friend had 2 kids with another man, 3 divorces...lets just say she was't the greatest mother role eh Smile And i dont blame her ex for comingin andtaking her son either fromthe first marriage!
Divorce is always ugly, the lawyers get all the cash and we all get stuck with the psychological baggage.

Wicked.Witchy.Woman's picture

PA here, I like the child support enforcement. They garnish wages right away and the money gets to the child quickly, and if they can't take enough from your pay and you start running behind, they are pretty fair about setting up a payment plan for the arrears as long as you show up for your hearings. I'm not so sure about the amounts and percentages though, my DH was very lieniant on that with BM. SHe only pays 250 per month and BM and DH make about the amount of money (on paper).