The puppets of evil BMs
Of course, I keep seeing this theme here: Skids feeding into the destruction of relationships by consistently proving their loyalty to BMs who haven't dealt with their own issues of (pick one or all) control, jealousy, anger, resentment, feelings of abandonment, and so on.
Are there any among us who believe that the BM has not been behind poor skid behavior? Have any skids just taken on being asses all by themselves?
DH used to repeat it all the time, as if it was an excuse: S/he feels the need to please his/her mom. S/he gets a lot of pressure.
It is one reason I let a lot pass in the early days, allowing bad behavior that I should not have accepted. Both DH and I kept hoping/thinking that once the skids became adults, they would grow more into their individual selves and let go of playing soldier in their mommy's little army of anger. But things actually got worse.
Then I flip flopped and was sure that the skids hated me on their own. I mean, what adults allow themselves to be ruled by their mother? What adults never think for themselves?
But then I saw that DH was right all along: The skids have been their mother's puppets. No, it's not excusable. It's shameful. I learned that when they suddenly wanted to talk to us or spend time with us/their dad (esp SD), there were always ulterior motives related to money grabs, and I know damn well BM coordinated those communications and visits. "You need to make amends with Mia and start talking to her after all these years if you want your Dad to pay for--or even show up to--the wedding" (he contributed but did not pay for it, although he was asked to; he saw their game).
There were surprising glimpses of what might have really been going on all those years (the puppet factor). One was that I noticed SS was reading almost every book I read (that I had already read, or that we talked about, or that he saw at our house). It was a bit eery. Another, which was the real shocker, was when SD said to me (as an adult) that she was going to get a tattoo of a photograph I took and posted on Facebook. While SD and I had been friends on FB, she never once commented on anything I posted or even checked "like"--acknowledging me publicly was against the mommy rules (I honestly thought she never saw anything I posted). I'm sure if she had done that (gotten the tattoo), she never would have revealed to her mother where the original image came from. Mommy rules meant be "close" enough to still be able to ask for and get things, but do not acknowledge or interact with the beasts. . . ever.
However they felt--liking the books I read (SS), loving a photo I took, enjoying a conversation with me (SS), asking for advice (SS), whatever--they were obviously not "allowed" to treat me decently, to even acknowledge my existence publicly. I had no doubt that during and after their visits (yes, as adults) they reported back, like Castle's 13 yo SS, on every move we (especially I) made, putting a negative spin on it all to keep their mother satisfied and in their court--I caught SD taking video through our house for her mother. Which is one reason I felt ok about losing my $hit a couple times the last time they were here (after DH's surgery). Yes, I dropped F bombs. You want to report that I'm a monster? I don't need to hold back my real feelings, then. Watch!!!
As I've mentioned before, SS and I had a fairly decent relationship early on, and I knew he was getting A LOT of pressure over that. Oddly enough, he caved once he became an adult (of course, he "needed" mommy's financial/home support).
I'm not excusing their behavior at all. I've seen it for what it is. The situations are pathetic. The behavior is cruel. And we are better for putting down that hopium pipe and letting them go. I finally got to the point of deciding that I will probably never see my skids again. And my life is better for it! Wish I had decided this sooner. #BigSigh!
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Comments
There is a fine line between
There is a fine line between the "reason" and "excuse". Yes, a toxic EX can create an environment where it is difficult for the child to overcome their influence.. and often custody schedules reinforce that. I mean.. logically wouldn't we align with the parent where we live and rely on for day to day things most of all? And that might mean that there is some validity to the kid's feelings of resentment if their father left.. if they percieve their father didn't fight hard enough etc.. though we all know as adults now how stacked the cards may be and often the reason for a parent leaving is complicated.. they aren't necessarily abandoning their familly.. they may be leaving a situation that is not livable.. and would be worse for everyone.. but yeah.. gives mom good ammo to blame ills on the dad... and when the same incomes are now trying to support two households.. everyone has less.. and sure the kids may be easily led to blame dad for not doing more.. when he is also dealing with less than he had before (not to mention loss of net worth in splitting and legal costs for everyone).
BUT.. while kids may have a reason.. even a somewhat valid one.. to be unhappy about things.. that is no EXCUSE to be allowed to be a jerk or disruptive or rude. In age appropriate ways.. the father needs to still insist on good values in his home.. respect for everyone who lives there.. and even if you don't "love" your stepmom.. you will not talk back.. act out etc.. You will be civil.. even if you don't like someone.. period. You are a kid.. kid job is bottom of the rung in the household.. you respect the home heads.. that includes the stepparent.. you do chores as assigned.. be helpful as asked and you go to school as required. that is your job as a minor child.
Should your parent/step parent expect a laundry list of chores if you are only there a handful of days a month? no.. but you can at the very least be expected to make your bed in the morning and lend a hand bringing in groceries if asked. and you do it without whining and back talk.
You don't have to love your stepmom and have heart felt convos with her.. bake cookies etc.. but you will treat her as a human being that lives in the house.
And.. the first inkling of poor behavior/attitude.. well... dad should be nipping it in the bud... age appropriately.
Even young kids can be told that they need to be nice to people they live with and visit with.. and as they get older.. the message can be.. you don't have to love her.. but I better not catch you treating her poorly... no one is saying you have to like her.. but we better not be able to tell if you don't.. lol.
Agreed!
There is no excuse for bad behavior.
Hmmm....
This is really interesting! When you mentioned you let bad behavior pass in the early days because you thought it would get better when the skids became adults, it made me think of my husband at the beginning of our marriage. Even though OSD was in her thirties, he thought her behavior would get better. No, he did not let it pass. However, he did not not put a 'hard stop' to it either. It was an example of gentle parenting, a 'soft stop'. I have to wonder if this gentle parenting approach is the reason why, at age 35, she is (in his words) "a train wreck"? Some people respond to a 'soft stop', she is not one of them. I took the stance of 'hard stop' from the beginning, but in a kind manner. It didn't matter, she was never going to quit. That's why he went no contact. Yes, he was smoking that hopium pipe...and still is. I think deep down he knows though...she will likely never change, because she does nothing wrong. She takes the stance that things are done to her. I am so glad I do not hear "that's her reality" anymore. He now understands that just because "that's her reality" doesn't actually make it reality.
I used to think OSd's behavior was all her own, but I have changed my mind about that. BM is there, behind the scenes, 'liking' her ugly and disparaging social media posts. I see now, that yes, that is encouragement. And she doesn't even have to get her hands 'dirty'. Yuck! It's ugly to use your child. Does she not want her child to be the best she can be? Do these nutty bio moms fail to see that they are harming the kids they claim to love?
Yea, it's highly unlikely
Yea, it's highly unlikely that in her 30s she's going to come around. SD was 12 and SS was 15 or 16 when DH and I began dating. I knew that BM had a problem with it (I chalked that up to insecurity) because of the ramped up neediness and demands--and I also strongly felt she was behind SD blowing up at DH over the phone after learning DH and I had gone away for a weekend. But BM's real viciousness didn't come out until after we got married, and then I started seeing the evil. Major PAS, etc.
Early on, though, SD tried to engage me in talk complaining about her mother, who she felt was old-fashioned and too strict (she was). Rather than offer advice or engage in an appropriate manner, I froze, thinking, "I ain't going there!" In hindsight, . . . .
Although SS was fighting "the cult," as he got along fairly well with both DH and me, I'd see a terrible change in his behavior when his sister was around--as if he needed the approval of a younger sibling, or perhaps he needed to "perform" to please his mother, knowing his sister would report back. Oddly enough, at one point, SS told me that he felt SD's behavior was "very unhealthy" in that she had never accepted our marriage. Well, interesting--because I know BM didn't, either, so I knew she was leading that.
We believed things would change once the skids got out of BM's grasp. But like I've said, SS's behavior grew worse. When DH has confronted him about it, his usual reply is, "I'm a douchebag." Well, yea, I guess you got that right, bud! lol.
SD was 18 and SS in his early 20s when I calmly told DH they were not stepping foot in our house until I received sincere apologies and a saw a change in behavior. That visit was so very hurtful because it involved my mother, who was ill. It is an incident that left a deep wound.
When DH told the skids they needed to apologize for their atrocious behavior, SD began denying and wailing, as usual. I didn't see her or know anything about her for 7 glorious years. SS apologized immediately. I believe he is a flying monkey.
Then SD shows up again "wanting to make amends." I knew something was up. She brought her big brother with her for protection. lol. Of course, she wanted to clear the air because she was getting engaged and needed me to support DH paying for the wedding. I didn't say a word to him about it, and he did not pay for it. He said, "She only wants me to be her father in times like these." He did give her some money. And, of course, everything went downhill again from there.
I regret being so "understanding" early on and smoking that hopium pipe. It caused a lot of pain in our lives and nothing good came of it. We were like those old blow-up clowns that get punched down, and we kept rising up with smiles on our faces. But at least there was an end to it all.
BM was definitely behind the
BM was definitely behind the early bad behaviour on the part of the SDs. I should have known - when I wrote them each a card shortly after I met them - (suitable for the age they then were - 5 and 7) - introducing myself and saying a bit about myself and that I hoped we'd get on. They left the cards at DH's flat and did not take them back to BMs. Hey ho! BM told them many lies about me, which I have no longer any interest in refuting.
In my case, I have definitive
In my case, I have definitive proof that it all stemmed from BM because almost immediately after my SDs moved away for university and no longer spent half their time at BM's home, they became totally different people. Their early-mid teenage years were unbelievably painful, but their late teens/early 20s have been night and day better.
The change is really good to
The change is really good to hear. That's what we had hoped for.
I Had Multiple Pot Stirrers
Not just the BM but at least two of her adult children. The oldest son and daughter plotted along right with her...sometimes giving her ideas. I know this with proof. They also were implicit in PASing the younger kids, more against me but DH got hit, also. Proof in hand, also.
Note: DH and I met 2 years after the end of his marriage, 7 years after the end of mine. The BM divorced left/divorced DH; she and her adult kids just didn't want anyone else to have him.
I'm a factual person....in my world, not much gray area. With everything that has happened over the years, I do not see any "close" relationships with DHs kids in my future. Civil and superficial is my motto. While I can forgive, there is another aspect....making amends. That's the only way to repair relationships and DHs kids do not have those tools. Or just don't want to do the work. They know what their mother and they did was wrong....and could care less which means no change in them. I refuse to let those kind of people have access to my heart. Nope, we're just going to have an "acquaintance" type of relationship. I'm good with that.
I get the little gray in your world perspective.
There is just about zero gray in mine.
My world is full in the face color. People do not get to hide behind gray, excuses, but their just kids, you don't know what they have been through, they have to please their (mother/father), excuse bullshit.
My give a shit about the why is just about zero. What is where the color is. Why, is nearly fully in the gray scale or excuses. I just do not care why they behave as asshats. I care that they do.
For us, it was not so much the Spermidiot, it was SpermGrandHag.
Fortunately, our son was smarter than the Hag and recognized that her manipulative bullshit did not pass his smell test and he did not bring it home at any notable level other than being upset that we took food out of the mouths of his three younger half sibs, he had nice things and they did not, the Hag said I was not his REAL dad and that he could not call me dad, etc... He did not act out regarding these things, he just asked us about them. We three discussed it, we gave him the facts and truth in an age appropriate manner, reviewed the documents and our family financials accordingly, and he returned to SpermLand for his next visitation with a broader understanding of reality.
Until the next time the Hag tried her crap.
They, hated that.