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Classic can’t care more then bio parents.

MissK03's picture

SD17 is entering her senior of high school. She went from wanting to stay home and commuting too going to private out of state schools costing 70k a year. This is completely outside her realm and blowout occurred because I gave my two cents off the rip. 
 

SOs ex SIL who is an APRN is offering to tour colleges with SD. He refuses to take time off after I told him he should... his response is well she's offering....

Terrible IMO. 

EDIT: I told him if my opinions mean so little to you and SD then I am completely removing myself from this situation aka... no shopping for dorms or moving in etc. I want nothing to do with it. He claims "I ruined it because I attacked." I was realistic.. very different then attacking and I called him a "defensive Disney dad." 

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AlmostGone834's picture

My husband is still worked up over the one time I called him a "Disney dad" lol. He tries to point out examples of why he's not a "Disney dad" to me from time to time so I know it stuck in his mind haha. 
 

70k a year is ridiculous. Is your husband independently wealthy, because who can afford that??? 
 

Good lord, the state university I went to was like 6k a year and I thought that was a lot. Granted it was quite a while ago now, but still. Insane. 
 

 

MissK03's picture

SD is going to have to pull loans for her tuitions. SO can not support her in this... I heard her rattling of schools that's her "friends" were visiting and was like no way you can afford any of those... just tuitions start at 40k+. Then she started her typical clueless banter how she would rather pay more money to go to a school she likes.... I was saying how she does not understand how student loans work etc... and how some of my friends in their late 30s are STILL paying.. SD17 thinks she understands and knows everything... it's her personality. SD kept going so I kept going ***insert the defensive Disney dad*** coming down to swoop in...

Basically told me to stop in front of SD and then they teamed up against... "it's you...you don't know how to talk to people." And that he was going to talk to her about how far fetched it is... but I don't even "entertain" the idea. This is where him and I are completely different... why entertain something if it is completely out of reach! 

FYI I have to deal with people all day this is completely inaccurate. That was Tuesday.

Yesterday we saw his ex SIL (who is a fantastic person) so she's going to help her but it turns into this secretive thing now... I walked by at one point when they were talking and they got quite... SO was like great she's going to help! 
 

So when we left the party we were at I told him he HAS to go. I sad you're her parent you can NOT be apart of it. He has like then I can't go to x friends wedding (one of my friends) I said you can go to his wedding because that's only a day off. I told him NOT to go to my other friends wedding in VA because he can draw days off that week to use for SD.

He doesn't like that because then HE can't hang with my brother... OH WELL. He didn't say that but it's definitely true. 

Dollbabies's picture

that high I'm assuming you're talking about a non-public college. If your SD is a good student there will be some funding/academic scholarship support from the college itself. The price tag will not look quite so terrible but will probably still be higher than an in-state university. Top students end up just paying room and board.

If SD is going into nursing do these colleges have programs for that? 

MissK03's picture

The private ones she was looking at yes... but in my state we have some of the top programs of the New England area. No reason for her to leave the state... she just wants too... typical uneducated 17 year old. 

Yesterdays's picture

My daughter is going to college/university for nursing and the tuition is free here as they're looking for more people to go into the nursing program...  The deal is they have to stay here to work for a certain number of years afterward. 

ESMOD's picture

My YSD had lofty dreams of attending some fancy out of state program as a teen.. in a field that we had never seen her express any interest in growing up.  We flatly told her we would not be able to help her in any way financially.. so if she did it.. and wanted to do it.. she would have to figure it out.  

She decided to take the job offer she had in town and do online learning through the local CC which the company paid for.  

She is now a manager of HR for that company.. and it has been slow going... but is close to done with the associates.. (it's been tough.. her company moved her 4 times and she got married ...so she has taken semesters off time to time.. and it's just been a class or two at a time).

Winterglow's picture

By entertaining their dreams while knowing they will never come true simply builds up false hopes only to pull the rug from under them. Can't he see how incredibly cruel that is?

CLove's picture

That happened to me too a few weeks ago - SD18 princess powersulk do  nada was hanging with Retired Auntie and Other Auntie and husband told him of his frustrations with her lack of motivation and retired autie offered to help get drivers license. Hasnt happened.

Last week I struggled and just told her and him to get her photo id, she needs that for everything.

Do you REALLY think auntie is going to help or is it all talk?

MissK03's picture

SOs ex SIL is a fantastic person. His brother was very lucky with who picked him to marry. Both his ex wives are awesome people and have raised very good kids.  She's an APRN and SD wants to go into nursing and she knows a lot about programs and has connections. She would 100% be beneficially to SD. It's SO just passing the torch and him beig pissed at me because I shut down private out of state schools off the rip. 

CLove's picture

I hope she gets realistic about her plans...and can follow up with action.

SD18 Princess Powersulk Do Nada almost 3 months later no job no drivers license and no college fafsa.

So frustrating.

ndc's picture

I know I'm preaching to the choir here, but your SO is screwing up. Most 17 year olds have no concept of the impact huge college debt will have on their future lives.  It is the responsibility of the parent to just say no, to explain to them how that "dream" school will become a nightmare, and to refuse to cosign any loans or let them get into a position where they'll have crippling debt. He can let her apply - maybe she'll get financial aid or a scholarship - but make it crystal clear up front what his contribution will be and his thoughts on debt so there are no surprises next spring.  Buckle up - it sounds like this will be a rough ride for you. 

MissK03's picture

He did talk to her about it. He told he will suppprt her while she's at school but the loans will be on her. He will be retiring in 8 years and it would be unfair to him at this point to have massive debt. He has raised all 3 of his kids with zero input from BM. She has not put a single dollar into their well being their entire lives...it was always SO. His point to me was let her see what she will get for money etc then lay it out. I don't think SD will get a ton of scholarships. He let her grades slip her junior year. Ya  know... the most important year. They were still decent but not what she can do.. she could have done better... I completely stay out of that too. I don't question anything because it always ended in a fight. She made high honors her last quarter. She is in AP classes etc and has good grades... She made honor roll every marking period 9th and 10th grade. So she does have grades to potential get some scholarships but that's all she has... and she plays 1 sport. She's not involved in anything else to earn full rides IMO. 

He told her to talk to  guidance and see what she can apply for etc. 

I just think even considering these expensive schools is silly. Why bother touring, applying etc... no point.

Shes following the crowd IMO...  We live in higher middle class town and unfortunately for SD her father does not have the finances as her friends. It's reality. That was my point but neither of them wanted to hear it.  
 

SD is so naive that she was saying "I think I can get 1k from mom." I said SD you don't understand how little that is... that's pennies in bigger picture of massive loans. I don't think BM would even do that TBH. 

Exjuliemccoy's picture

YSD's mother was the same - never worked, never supported her 3 (total) kids, never paid a dime in c.s.

I wish there was a way to acquaint skids like yours with the hard truth: that those other kids have/had TWO parents supporting and contributing, you don't, and due to that your options are different.

The blame should be put where it rightly belongs, not on the messenger.

MissK03's picture

They know she has put a penny into them but they don't understand the real concept. BM has always said "your father makes more money then me." "It's what he wanted." What I really wish the skids would ask her is where that 50k not court ordered money went? Because SO was still paying for everything for them AND giving her money on top of it. It didn't cost 50k to feed your kids 6 days a month for 5 years...  oh wait... it went towards her lifestyle that's where..

MissK03's picture

I'll add this too... I think I'm just hurt because I wanted to be a part of this for her and it got blown out of water so quick that it's not worth it anymore. I told SO I'm going to remove myself from the situation but he can't be mad at me for it too. Another dammed if I do dammed if I dont. 

Lillywy00's picture

Get some friends with college bound kids who don't mind you helping with dorm decor and dorm life tips. 
 

I know I'd take any of my girlfriends up on that offer ..... takes a village to raise these hard headed kids lol

MissK03's picture

I could do that!! That won't be for a little while though. All my friends kids are toddlers or elementary age haha. 

Yesterdays's picture

I think $70,000 /year is ridiculous. At minimum she should be asked some questions about how she intends on paying back all the loans for this. In this scenario I would discourage them but if they insisted I would tell them as a parent I'm contributing X amount, and it's up to THEM to figure out the rest

PetSpoiler's picture

I wish college was made affordable and people weren't forced to take on a debt that takes years to pay back. 

ESMOD's picture

The problem with "easy" money for college is that it allowed the universities and colleges (and other tech schools etc) to pump up pricing.. and often entice students with things that aren't even academic related.. I mean.. state of the art gyms etc.. those are "nice to haves".. not necessary for getting an education are they?

tuition has increased faster than inflation.. and the value of the degrees has dropped.. so it's not always the best way for people to start.

but the education system seems geared to pushing kids through.. with college as a natural next step.  

There are so many kids who attend that do not have near the academic chops to be there.. but they get loans or their parents pay if they have to 

I believe that the ability to get loans or govt money for your studies should be directly related to the ultimate value that degree will provide.

You can't borrow money for degree programs with low success in graduates attaining gainful employment at a rate that would be able to repay said loans.

I am supportive of forgiveness for those students that go into public service roles and commit to them long term (5 years minimum with a percent being written off each year after that until extinguished).. That way, teachers, military, law enforcement etc.. jobs that may not pay top tier can justify working because the job repays their education..   

I also agree that it's kindest to tell your child what is possible and what is not possible for parental support.. they need to understand clearly that dad can't foot the bill for a 70K a year program. period.  and that if they can't get a full ride, that will not be an option.

 

Rumplestiltskin's picture

I agree completely. College costs have been artificially inflated. The days of working all summer to pay tuition are over. The days of going to school to "find yourself" via partying are over for almost everyone. And all these Pell grants given out, i wonder what the rate of the recipients actually getting a degree is. I suspect many of them go a few years, live off it, then drop or fail out. But the money is being circulated from the taxpayer to the underprivileged to the universities, and then...who knows where?

I haven't researched this extensively but i read somewhere that college in Germany is free, but only if you pass the rigorous requirements to get in. That seems like a better use of resources than the drunken sailor spending and bloat we have here, and so many kids don't even graduate. 

Rags's picture

No one is forced to sign the loan docs.  Borrowers borrow. Lenders lend. School loans have not been forgivable via bankruptcy for decades so borrowers have no reason to whine about repayment.

The background on not being to include school loans in bankruptcy was due to high balance borrows finishing Law School/Med School/etc then taking low paying internships or residencies who then would file bankruptcy to get out from under school loans they could not afford to make payments on during internships/residencies before moving on to very high paying careers.  They get out of their several $HundredK loans and kick off a high earning professional career after residencies.   Congress did not care much for that crap so.... school loans are excluded from bankruptcy forgiveness.  Just some learnings from business law and finance classes I once took.

You retire school loans by paying them off.

It is simple.

The issue for some reason is that so many borrow shit piles of unforgivable school loans to pursue majors that pay shit for nothing.  Poor choices do not warrant loan forgiveness IMHO.

If anything, anyone and everyone who graduated without debt or who paid off their loans should get reimbursed for every Cent they spent before one deadbeat student borrower gets anything.

Also IMHO.

It is better to reward those making wise decisions that make them solid contributors to the economy than reward those making crap decisionso

Nursing is a good choice of major. If she succeeds in completing the degree she can earn a decent living and service her loan debt successfully.  There ar also programs for loan forgiveness for nurses who work in underserved markets.  Loans are payed off by employers after some number of years of service.

My SIL's BIL got his med school loans forgiven under one of these programs after working as an OB/GYN in a rural area for a number of years after Med school.

There are also options for paying for school that do not mean loans. Pay as you go while working full time and going to school part time is one I did that for 7 of my 11 year undergrad program.  I did take out $10K in loans to partially cover the cost of the last 1.5yrs of my Engineering program.  I paid them off in the first year following graduation. 

Society and economies are  seeing the backlash of learn your passion parenting and school guidance  to pursue what you love rather than the prior focus on earning a living.  University education is being demonized, trades are being glamorized.  I have made a very good living leading trade focused organizations and have all the respect in the world for skilled trades workers.  Even with my experience I am very pro university education.   However, aligning it with the ability to pay for it and make a living is the critical success factor in selecting a course of study.

If I were paying for a kid's education I would limit both the choice of where they go to school and the choices of what htey study.  If they choose to go a different route, they can pay for it.  I'll pay for STEM, healthcare or business.  Beyond that, the kid is on their own.

We recently attended my youngest nephews engineering school graduation.  His longhish term GF graduated at the same time in Pre-med/Biology.  She is studying for her MCATs and working in a clinic for a year as she applies for Med School. My nephew accepted a role with a engineering consulting firm making high 5 figures. GF's dad is a successful attorney who will be paying for Med School.  GF's elder sister... is eternally on daddy payroll. She did a BFA in theater and manages costume design, creation, and care for various theater groups.  She can't afford to feed and house herself.  She also insists on living in an extremely expensive city.

But hey, she is doing what she loves. Which I guess anyone can do if they have parents willing to maintain them on the full meal deal mommy/daddy payroll.

Choice of schools and fields of study are an analysis process. Not an emotionall make the fee fees sing decision.

IMHO of course.

I eventually finished my undergrad in engineering. Not because I loved it. I still don't really love it. But because it gave me access to companies and incomes I was interested in.  DW is one of those types who has known what she wanted to study and do from  a young age.  She also is an outlier in that her passion was accounting.  She is truly outstanding at it and it falls in the STEM world so she makes a very good income.

SS's journey education wise may be due to his passion for gaming and a long ago stated desire to do game design.  Not something his mom and were or are willing to pay for. So, the USAF is keeping him focused and guiding his education which is in Computer Science. Once he completes his BSCS (he has is ASCS) and successfully retires from the USAF in less than 7 years he can chase that dream if he chooses.  He will have a crap ton of college money to use from the USAF and since he enlisted from Texas he can go to school for free forever at any public university in Texas for life.

It is a good thing that I did not have that option. I would still be in school since I love school and still do not have a clue what I want to be or do when I grow up.

Blush

As for schools, beyond accredidation go with the low cost option.  In the US, regional accredidation by one of the USDE recognized accrediting bodies is what matters.  For some degrees there are also program specific accrediting organizations but it is the regional accredidation that confirms legitimacy.  Public, Private, for profit, non profit, etc... does not delegitimize a school if it is appropriately accredited.  Both my undergrad and my graduate degrees are from for profit private universities.  One was at a brick and mortar campus, the other was online.  I have had a solidly successful career. My brother and I graduated together from both engineering school and grad school. He is a very high earning C suite executive.

Pick wisely on degree flavor and school and a universit education when combined with solid career performance will make for a comfortable life.  It may not be the dream school or the dream degree/career  but there are a bunch of people who have chased unmarketable dreams and ended up broke, under insane levels of school debt, and cannot effectively support themselves.

I did an analysis years ago on maximizing career long income in the trades focused industries.  THe two paths I studied were right out of HS one going into the trades and one going to university.  The optimal outcome was a hybrid career path of both blue collar and white collar progression.  By the time a university student graduates with a Bachelors a trades worker has progressed through a 4 year progression from entry level Helper/Apprentice to Journeyman level while earning several $Hundred K.  While the full time non working college path person has not earned a cent and is competing for entry level roles in the job market.  

If the person starting in the trades also attends college part time while working their helper progression and ultimately as a certified journeman/master craftsperson and completes a Bachelor's degree that returns a maximized early career income and ties in the mid to late career extremely high professional incomes. Combined this maximizes career long income above what a pure trades or pure full time student career start delivers.

Periodically I still get graduation announcements from former employees who I have mentored on this hybrid path.  The eldest finished their BS in their late 60s and now works as a manager.

This model is far less combersome to follow than it used to be.  With the advent of online accredited degree programs that allow people to work full time and attend university in asynchronus 24/7 programs this model is available to just about anyone.

 

 

Rumplestiltskin's picture

Is SD wanting to go to school for nursing? If so, a fancy school is pointless. You can research NCLEX pass rates of local or regional schools and try for the ones with the highest. Focus on going there and making the best grades possible. Potential employers see those as the most desirable for new hires. Past your first job, potential employers look at your work experience. TBH, anyone with an RN license will find a job, and if it sucks, you can use that experience to get better jobs. 

MissK03's picture

Oh I am well aware of that it doesn't matter what school you go to... I was just talking to my brothers about this.. one of my SILs is a nurse and I have multiple people that I know... It's SO giving into SD.. and entertaining things that are not an option for her.