The tension builds
Hi all, I've commented here a few times about my awful adult SD (22). I disengaged from her over the holidays after a culmination of years of passive aggressive behavior, disrespect and making me feel like an outsider in my home and marriage.
we have created several boundaries over the years to keep the peace in our marriage. But I can't help feeling that they both "forget" them conveniently. My husband says I just want control over everything with her. I feel I just want to be respected, and at this point I can't stand her.
He saw her yesterday for the first time since gift-grabbing Xmas. He told me about the visit afterwards and I could use some perspective to see if I am nitpicking or if I am right in my feelings!
issue number 1: she tried to talk about me to him behind my back. This is previous boundary we had established in which I will not be talked about behind my back, if there is going to be discussion about me I need to be there so I can defend myself. He did quickly end that conversation but I feel as if he threw me under the bus. When she tried to start discussing me and why I have disengaged from her, he said something along the lines of "you both got your feelings hurt over something stupid and neither one of you can't talk to each other about it and I'm not getting involved." It bothers me that she tried to talk about me to him and it also bothers me how he responded. What I would love for him to say is "you have been very disrespectful and rude to my wife and it's no wonder that she doesn't wanna have a relationship with you"!!
Issue #2: , a previous boundary that we have established is that she loves to call her dad and give him personal information and details about her mother's life. Including very intimate personal details about her relationship and everything else. Her mom, my husband and I all have a history (from high school) so it really bothers me personally know that she makes it a point to keep her dad updated on what's going on in her mom's life.
although we had established before that this was a boundary and he supposedly told her that he doesn't want to hear about her mom, she still does it and he does not do anything to stop it. He said that it came out naturally and he can't control what other people talk about. He also admitted he enjoyed hearing about misfortune in her moms life because it gives him satisfaction.
am I just reaching here and trying to find things that I hate about her? He also mentioned that he invited them over sometime this summer to go swimming and barbecue. I do not want to be anywhere near her at all as it is the most unpleasant feeling in the world. I could really use some wise words!!
I think your DH has his
I think your DH has his allegiances split here.. he likely sees or thinks he sees "issues" and some fault or contribution on each side.. so he is trying to stay out of it. I don't think it's unusual for her to try to talk to your DH about her relationship with you.. but I think his boundary of not taking a side is actually ok.
As far as her talking about her mom.. I don't think he is interested in her mom.. but he has admited that the shadenfreude of hearing of her misfortunes is what he gets out of it.
In both cases.. nope.. he can't prevent her necessarily from saying something.. how quickly he shuts down the convo maybe.. like with issues surrounding her mom.. he likely doesn't think it's a big deal since he has no interest in his EX other than hearing of her misfortunes..
I will say, I appreciated him
I will say, I appreciated him moving on quickly and having a vague answer when she questioned him about me. I'm not entirely unhappy with his answer but I think he could have stood more on my side I guess.
Unfortunately, it can get
Unfortunately, it can get kind of emotionally complicated.
On the one hand..you are his wife.. and he loves you.
But on the other hand.. they are their kids and they love them too... and don't want to necessarily lose a relationship with them.
So they tight rope the line.. trying to not take sides.. and often keeping their heads in the sand.. in the end.. trying to please everyone.. often results in no one being 100% happy.. but it allows them to keep a foot in both worlds.
It would be simpler if it were a friend that took a dislike to their spouse.. easy to cut ties.. but when you are talking their flesh and blood (even when their flesh and blood aren't always the way they might have hoped they would turn out). and further more hard when there are grandkids? it's hard to just cut off that relationship and convince themselves that the issue is not as bad as their spouse may be telling them. esier to deny than admit the truth and have to deal with it.. so they keep trying to keep neutral and friendly on both sides.
Your DH's responses
I have to respectfully say that I dont see a problem with your DH's responses. He sounds like he's trying to be tactful but he did shut down her talking about you and he's correct that he can't prevent her from talking about BM.
I totally understand your stand against SD, I'm doing the exact thing with my SD60, disengaging and grayrocking. My SD has done the same in the past, trashing me and discussing our late BM. Nowadays, she has new topics he shuts down, her comments about her daughter's life choices and her organ recital of all her ailments.
Sigh.....steplife.....
Oh man
I am gonna guess your DH plays both sides of the coin and you will NEVER know the entirety of their conversations. Often these guilty dads will kiss ass to stay in good graces of their kids. Then he wants to keep the wifey happy so he sugar coats to you...NOT COOL.
I would be a little peeved that he still feels the need to hear about the ex BM. Thats someone who still has harbored feelings IMHO. Think about it would your DH be jumping for joy that a relative keeps you informed on your exes. Then he said it bothered him, yet your answer is that I cant control it? No he cant control what SD says. However he dang well knows what upsets you. Why isnt he respecting that? He can very easily say to SD " i really dont want to hear about your mom" but he doesnt. He doesnt want to upset the princess, but you, well you will get over it.
I also agree DH put you on the same level as your rude SD. Like both of you are the problem. Wouldnt it be nice to have a DH who sees his lil cherub as the damaging B that she is and how you have been mistreated. That is what partners are for. Its called having your back.
Sure if you have caused trouble I can see him saying both of you. Chances are that is not the case. Let me guess you went into this with an open mind. Maybe even a little excited by getting close to SD and being a step family. Except you were the only one who wanted that.
Blessings this life aint ever easy
"I am gonna guess your DH
"I am gonna guess your DH plays both sides of the coin and you will NEVER know the entirety of their conversations. Often these guilty dads will kiss ass to stay in good graces of their kids. Then he wants to keep the wifey happy so he sugar coats to you...NOT COOL."
THIS. 100%. I absolutely know he does this and your right, I'll never really know what's said.
I want him to feel comfortable saying "I don't want to talk about your mom". I don't have a problem saying this to my kids!
he wants to invite her over for a barbecue and I want nothing to do with her still. How can I shut this stuff down when he thinks it's been enough time and I should be over it already?
Thank you for your comment. I
Thank you for your comment. I appreciate the perspective. Sometimes it's hard for me to see where I'm being unreasonable. I wish he would have firmly put her in her place and said that she has been rude and disrespectful to me. But he can't seem to do that.
Partners
When you married your DH you agreed to love and cherish each other. You go into a union with a person who your will be partners with, supposedly for the rest of your life. The marriage is top priority and brings out the best in both of you. You practice mutual respect.
So would you tell him all about your ex? Would you allow your children to speak badly about him behind his back, then tell him about it?
What kind of bothers me is why is he telling you about conversations with SD where she is putting you down or discussing BM? You have informed him that you are having problems with SD, so what's in it for him? What's the purpose of telling you? To me this sounds a bit passive-aggressive. Next time he brings up SD or BM just respond with, "Hmmm", and nothing else. If he continues, walk away. Let him know with your actions that you think enough of yourself that you expect him to support you - otherwise, you don't want to hear it.
I totally see your point. But
I totally see your point. But I truthfully think that he tells me out of fear of not telling me everything and having it blow up in his face. Which is what has happened in the past. So now it's like he immediately tells me everything because he feels like he's in trouble or something.
I think your reaction to this
I think your reaction to this needs to be based on your goal, not winning.
If you want to win, then your DH behaved poorly. He SHOULD have told SD that he wasn't discussing you and if SD wanted that discussion, she could reach out to you. Easy-peasy. He didn't so you "lost" and that upsets you. Same with the conversation about the XW. He should have said "I don't want to hear about your mother" and shut it down. He didn't, you "lost", and now you're upset.
Now, I'm not saying I agree with how he handled it. It WAS immature, and he protected his own feelings and catered to SD. It's an expected response, even if it feels gross.
BUT, does "losing" or "winning" these boundary fights really help you achieve your goal, which is to disengage from SD and not have her involved in your ACTUAL, day-to-day, personal life?
My perspective is no. One thing I agree with your DH on is that you can't control what other people say, but you can control how you react. After he visits with SD and tries to talk about her, you firmly tell DH that you don't wish to hear about his day with his daughter. His relationship with her is between him and her, not you, and you don't want to be involved. If he wants SD over for a cookout, make sure you have other plans that day to not be there.
If your fear is SD will manipulate DH into hating and leaving you, know that no amount of boundaries you set between your DH and SD will prevent that. The only person who can stop SD's manipulations is your DH. If he can't/won't do that himself, then your relationship is already on a time limit.
Now, this does bring in the sticky issue of "your spouse should respect your boundaries" and I agree. Really, this comes down to where you want your boundaries to be. Would it be enough for you to never hear about his relationship with SD and not be around her? Or do you need to know that your name never leaves her mouth in front of your husband? I won't tell you which you need to do, just recognize the limits of each and what is in your control so you can pick the path that best maintains your peace.
Oooof. This was a lot to
Oooof. This was a lot to digest but you are so right. I know I need to change my mindset and my thinking around everything. You are correct, if I am disengaged I should technically not want to know anything about her or what they discuss right? But I'll be honest that the jealousy in me and the fear of what damage has already been done to our marriage makes me want to question what was said and how he handled the situation. It only seems to make things worse though. I even tried to ask him about her life in general and he got agitated just relaying her basic updates to me. I finally said "I won't ask anything about her at all anymore". He told me that if I had a relationship with her than I would know the information myself. Which I obviously am not interested in.
I guess I'm not quite sure what I want. It is multi- faceted and complicated. I think it's time for me to explore this more in counseling. I think what I really wish is that he would stand up for me firmly to her. But it seems like that will never happen.
Lt. Dad makes a good point
In our fantasy steplife, our DHs would always stand up loudly and proudly for us to the SKs. This would be "winning". In reality, our fallible DHs are probably trying to balance all their loyalties and trying to maintain relations with everyone.
So, Lt. Dad is right that redefining "winning" is key. For me, "winning" is seldom, if ever, asking about SD. Winning is DH seldom relating his conversations with her. Winning is knowing she will be here less from now on since we are hiring out jobs she formerly did here. Winning is seldom talking or complaining about her (except on ST. Lol). Winning is being able to be polite and civil when I see her.
That's the best I can do in my reality but it's enough.
Great point. I need to
Great point. I need to readjust what winning means to me. I want so badly to stick it to her, to make it known that her tricks don't work but I doubt that's ever going to happen.
It gets complicated for sure.
It gets complicated for sure. My guess is that she is a bit of a mini-wife, so some of your jealousy and being upset comes from feeling like you're competing with "the other woman" and not his daughter. That's a dynamic that he has helped create and sustain, and the only way to overcome that while maintaining your relationship is to disengage and work on yourself to be at peace with that.
I think most of us wish our spouses would stand up to someone in their life that brings us grief. It's *really* hard to let go of the fantasy that we'll get the justice or vengeance we seek. It takes time, and sometimes it doesn't really go away. We just get better at masking it.
Also, you might find that your DH gets tired of SD bringing you up in conversation if you take a grey rock approach to SD. If your DH says something about her, you can just say "that's nice" and change the subject. Basically, when you remain neutral about SD, your DH will bring her up less and less. That gives you two more time to talk about hobbies, your relationship, opinions on the world - whatever. If SD keeps bringing you up, your DH may either share less and less OR he'll share all these great things you two have discussed, which means SD will either stop asking or she'll stop being sneaky with her snark and DH will see it.
When we stop getting involved and truly disengage, the drama dies down in our worlds. If it continues to revolve in others, that's on them. But we can find long-term peace when we fully step out of the drama. You can't lose a game you don't participate in.
You sure do have the right
You sure do have the right words. Thank you for all of that, I really needed to hear it. She is very much a mini wife. She is his only child and I have been a threat since the day I came on the scene. The thing is, I have four of my own children and he has no problem laying boundaries with them or demanding respect. But with his daughter, it will never happen. It makes me so incredibly resentful I just don't know how to get past it.
As a step mom of three SK for
As a step mom of three SK for 12 years, I wholeheartly believe that at one point in my life I wanted these children or young adults to accept me somehow in their lives as their stepmom and want to have a relarionship with me. It did in the beginning, I was dad's cool girlfriend and then when I introduced my kids all went to shit. Jealousy , competition, and BM as well as my dear MIL started to cause problems for us.
My youngest SD is a sweet girl. She visits us and brings her toddler (who calls me grandma) and loves us so much. She routinely send us group messages with pictures of her kid and includes me in a lot of her life. I wish it was the same with the others....
He has a lack of clarity on priorities.
My father made it abundantly clear to his sons that his wife was his wife and to be respected and honored. That she is dad's wife trumps that she is our mother.
Ditto for mom in her message to her sons that her husband is to be honored and respected.
If there is any symblance of hesitation in delivering this message to his children, regardless of your status as a SM or a BM, then your DH has an issue that you have every reason to call him on.
Whatever SD has to say to her dad about you does not get said. Period. And if he lets one oxygen atom leave her lips without making it instantly clear that "Bamb is my wife, she will be respected, and if you have anything to say about her you will say it to both of us. If you cannot say it to her face with me present, then you have nothing to say. PERIOD. DOT!"
Of couse "How's Bamb?" or "What have you and Bamb been up to?" Is perfectly acceptable 1:1 dad/SD conversation during their lunches. Familial banter and undermining criticism are two very different things.
I will be demanding this.
I will be demanding this. Thank you.
Your DH enjoys the drama and
Your DH enjoys the drama and fosters it...he's a drama wh@re. It's not hard for him to say "SD I'm here to visit with you, not discuss my wife." Or "SD whatever your mom is doing in her life is her life and I don't need to know about it, do you think you would enjoy me sharing your failures with former friends of yours." He enjoys having these "gossip sessions" with his daughter because this is probably the only way they relate to one another. His "sharing" what happened with his SD is another way he just perpetuates the drama he helps feed his daughter. So cut off his feeding supply, the next time he has a chat or a visit with SD and he wants to tell you, walk away, or change the subject, or politely decline. Once you take the “drama” out of it he will lose interest in sharing that aspect with SD.
Drama wh@re
says it all!!
You have hit the nail on the
You have hit the nail on the freaking head! He just wants to be her friend and he loves relating to her. The thing is I want to know what happened. I know that's a me problem.
I’ve experienced alot of these like you have.
Your husbamd didn't defend you and say "gee i wonder why your stepmum has disengages with the appalling behaviour from you" instead its sugarcoating things like "why can't you get along, lets make a fresh start and you'll always be my daughter and marrying her doesn't change that" instead of manning up and holding them accountable for the disrespectful behaviour
the whole have to insert bio mum into conversations and make her relevant, every outing my sd's especially the eldest would do as she was 22-23 at the time. My husband would stay silent. Nothing about what we were talking had anything to do with bio mum but sd made sure the moment she met up with us or entered our car to rant on about bio mum and stepdad.
its all about making them relevant when they aren't and its like to stick it up to you that you're just the 2nd wife.
my husband refused to address this until 1.5 yrs later when he was forced to because he knew my stance on any relationship with stepdaughters wouldn't change
rhe most ridiculous thing with sd's is their cheating bio mum was having an affair with hubby 2 whilst married to my husband before they even separated and got married in secret the week divorce was finalised.
skids didn't even know their mum was dating. Yet 5.5 yrs after divorce and about 2-2.5 yrs after they ended contact with their dad, he married me and we had 2 kids together but eldest sd calls up daddy mid-late 2019 with some bullshit sob story that daddy abandoned them to marry me and have kids with me. Instead of holding them accountable to their decision to cut off contact with their dad, all hubby does is sugarcoat that they will always be his daughters and marrying me, having kids with me doesn't change things
at that point I legitimately cut off all contact and made it extremely clear i and our 2 young kids would never be around skids especially with the fact they were so bold to tell daddy that they resent my and my kids existence. I knew then they were on a mission to destroy our marriage and relationship and as such toxic people, that they needed to stay the hell away from us.
my husband still lives in fantasy land claiming thats all in the past. No its not, its still very much present in our lives and he doesn't get to claim sd is a changed woman and that she has moved on and adores us because everything about her behaviour and language says otherwise and i will not subject our young kids to that kind of abuse from them
Is your DH
Trying to make everyone happy, Making no one happy. Letting SD talk about you to make her happy. Then letting you vent to make you happy, basically playing the middle. In doing so not solving anything but looking week
OP, your husband saying "I'm
OP, your husband saying "I'm not getting involved" is a total copout. Yes it is!
He should get involved, and should have done so right at the start, insisting that his offspring treated you, his wife, with courtesy and respect.
His spawn doesn't have to like you, but she MUST be polite and respectful to you at all times...
I completely agree with you.
I completely agree with you. He has enabled this behavior and he's more comfortable making her feelings a priority, than mine. He's sick of this, I get it, but we wouldn't be where we are today if he's demanded respect from the start.
Totally! Nothing grinds my
Totally! Nothing grinds my gears more than these guys who say things like:
"It's nothing to do with me" YES IT IS EVERYTHING TO DO WITH YOU!
"I'm stuck in the middle'" NO YOU'RE NOT. MIDDLE OF WHAT? I'M NOT FIGHTING OVER YOU LIKE YOU'RE SOME PRIZE...
"I'm not getting involved" WRONG. YOU NEED TO PARENT YOUR KID PROPERLY AND TEACH HER SOME MANNERS AND HOW TO RESPECT PEOPLE.
I agree! This is exactly what
I agree! This is exactly what I argue! But he acts like we are two teenage girls in a high school fight! Stand behind me!!!! How will she ever respect me if you can't stand up for me?!
Too true. Conversely, how can he respect you if you do not stand
up for yourself? By that I mean. Pack their shit and leave it on the curb after re-keying locks.
Quit tolerating his crap and make your point. Unequivocally.
He chooses not to have your back, he chooses to see your back as you move on to an actual partner of character, honor, and quality rather than continue with a ball-less failed family progeny worshipping daughter whipped daddy.
He Doesn't Want To Get Involved, Well As Long As He Perpetuates
these conversations privately with his daughter HE IS INVOLVED, and voluntarily.
I would tell him that, and if he doesn't want to be involved, then STOP BEING INVOLVED.
Respect his marriage and boundaries with regard to his daughter.
I have to side with you. I
I have to side with you. I have been in a similar position where my two younger SK complained to their dad about me via text and DH deleted the texts so that I would not see them. It infuriates me that I am not allowed to defend myself and SK can twist things around and make it seem like I am the problem. On a different occasion, the SS called my husband to tell him that I should not text him (the SS and me were arguing). My DH is not my father, and if I have an issue with my SS I will handle it with him and not his dad. We are both grown adults and I dont think it is fair to bring my DH in the middle of it when it may have nothing to do with DH.
I think most DHs try to remain neutral and seem to forget who their allegiance is to. I think he could have handle the situation differently and not make you look like the bad guy. You are his wife and an adult and SD should show you some respect, unless you have been absolutely vial to her I do not believe a SK should treat any adult with disrespect no matter who it is.
I enjoy hearing the BM's gossip. It is always fun to hear how she cheated on the BF and now shakcing up with her best friend's ex....LMAO