Family vacations?
I'd rather poke my eyes out. I have a SD22 who I have a very tense relationship with. She has never fully accepted me coming into her daddy's life and he is the usual guilty father. I have 4 of my own kids, one of which is also an adult.
I decided at the holidays this year that I am DONE trying to be kind and loving to her. I am done being walked over and having passive aggressive behavior hurled at me while my DH remains clueless. I have so much resentment! She snubbed me AGAIN during the holidays and my DH had to be prompted to stick up for me. Later when talking about it, he said that we just need to come to terms with the fact that we may never like each other or have a good relationship. YES! Thank you! However, I have a hard time coming to terms with him just acting like nothing happened and rugsweeping her disrespect to me (and him and my kids)!
Anyway, to my question. Before this holiday stuff, we had planned a family vacation. I did not want her to come because I knew how uncomfortable it would be and how miserable I would be. I can't even stand spending several hours with her. She talks incessantly about her moms private business including how she shaves her bikini area and the extra-marital affairs going on in her moms relationship. She constantly talks about all the memories her and daddy had before we were in the picture. It just sucks. When we planned this trip he said it was important she was included in a vacation. I see his side, I really do. But at what expense to me?
In addition, we've been invited to a destination wedding in his family. My kids were not invited but his daughter was. When I mentioned to my DH that I would be uncomfortable just the three of us going to the wedding, he asked "why would you be uncomfortable? She is one of our kids."
This makes it clear he doesn't really "get it" and is going to continue to push her on me when it suits his agenda. Thoughts? Am I being unreasonable?
to clarify, we haven't purchased any tickets or hotels for any of the trips but it makes me want to just say screw it, no vacation this year!
Help!
Take your bio's on vacation
Take your bio's on vacation ONLY,,,you and your kids. Not so sure I would come back to be frank..
Your sd is gross. My question to you is this,
How on earth would she know about her mothers grooming with a razor?. You wrote: "She talks incessantly about her moms private business including how she shaves her bikini area".
Do you mean take my kids on
Do you mean take my kids on vacay without my DH? I'm tempted if he insists she is coming. More than likely what he will do is insist MY adult kid can't come if she can't.
About the shaving, she was in esthetician school and told us that she was going to give her mom a Brazilian. Wtf. (If that doesn't tell you all you need to know about her relationship with BM!)
I believe that before I came into the picture she would talk to my DH about all of her moms private business (and I'm sure she tells her mom all of ours). I think this was a norm for them and part of their unhealthy dynamic. He doesn't even flinch when she gives out personal info about her mom. It's just...normal?
He doesn't get it. Let him
He doesn't get it. Let him take darling skid to wedding himself and take your kids on vacay without either of them. Then maybe he'll get the message.
This is what you should do!
This is what you should do!
Funny...his kid is considered "ours"...but yours are considered....?
It might be tough to exclude
It might be tough to exclude only his daughter while taking your kids. I'm sure it's easily justified if your kids are respectful to DH, but he won't see it that way. You may just have to take separate vacations - you with your kids, you with DH, and DH with his kid - if you can afford that.
Whether you get to take another vacation or not, I would decline to go on trips with SD if she makes you uncomfortable and you'd rather stay home.
Based on your DH's reaction, I'd agree with you that no matter what he's said, he just doesn't get it.
"Well DH, if she is one of
"Well DH, if she is one of 'our' kids, then why did your family snub 'our' other kids from attending the wedding? It's because they aren't 'our' kids. They are your kid and my kids. You told me that I needed to accept that SD and I may never like each other. That also comes with you accepting the consequences of that, which is me being uncomfortable around her. Especially since she has been disrespectful to me - which you notice. I understand this puts you in a weird spot, so if you have a solution around this that doesn't involve me ignoring SD's disrespectful behavior or pretending that we're fine, I'm open to hearing it."
Put the ball back in his court to find a solution. What he really wants is for his daughter to be less of a disrespectful embarrassment for him, but he knows that won't happen. So, he just wants you to ignore it like he does. The problem with that is that the disrespect isn't targeted at him, so he doesn't have to do anything.
He doesn't seem to care that it put you in a lose-lose situation. So remind him that it does:
"DH, I can't win in this and I have done nothing wrong. Either I tolerate the disrespect or I risk upsetting you if I speak up."
He'll retort with he's also in a lose-lose situation because she is his daughter, he wants to spend time with her, her mother influenced her that way, etc. He won't want to be in the middle, but he is PRECISELY the person who is in the middle. He is the bridge that connects both you and SD because if he wasn't around, you wouldn't have to deal with her. She is HIS family and it is HIS job to prevent her from harming you in any way. Same would be for you and your kids in regards to him. This is 100% his problem, and he needs to be the one to suffer the consequences of that problem, not you.
^^^^^
^^^^^
This. You need to have a serious sit down come to Jesus talk with DH. I would suggest a counselor to mediate.
Thank you for this reply. You
Thank you for this reply. You hit the nail on the head.
The only way I might do
The only way I might do something like that is if it were a vacation where it was easy to do things separately.
Like.. a family cruise where she would have her own room (norweigan has singles rooms that are nice.. my YSD stayed in one when we went on a cruise).. you could see her occasionally during the trip.. but it sounds like she would be just as liable to be out doing her own thing somewhere like that.
Or an all inclusive resort.. again.. where she could have the day to herself.. you could do things with your younger kids etc...
Time
Does SD even want to go on vacation with dad? SD is 22. How much vacation time does she have? At that age many don't want to use their limited time to tra!vel with a parent.
SD is 22 and lives with BF (unless things have changed from previous blog). If SD asks would Dad want the BF to come too?
She does live with the
She does live with the boyfriend and she would likely want him to come too. DH doesn't like him but he would concede to make her happy.
It Took 12 Years....
and a major, humiliating event that almost sent me over the edge mentally for DH to finally "get it." And to see his kids' disgusting behaviors towards me (thank you, counselor).
Your husband is correct. Come to terms with the fact you and her will never get along. Except...YOU have come to terms with it. Apparently he hasn't because who the hell wants to vacation or go to a destination wedding with someone you are totally at odds with???
In my world, DH sees his kids away from our marital home. He "vacations" for a week once a year to do his whirlwind visit to see four of them who love 2k miles away. He has one kid local that I'm okay if he comes to our home to visit but he never came, even before the shit show. When DH leaves, I enjoy my time and take my own trips or do my own fun things. So, using HIS words....accept you two will never get along....start doing things separate. If she has to come on vacation, you take your kids and go; let him and his daughter go.
As for the wedding, you will have to decide if you want to put up with her or skip it. We had a possible family reunion planned on DH's side....his kids know little to nothing about the family on that side as the BM always pushed HER family. But now that BM is dead, I'm sure they'd want to be involved. If they go, I'm skipping. It's just not worth my peace to be around those freaks.
Best to you. Not an easy journey.
I'm sorry to hear what you
I'm sorry to hear what you have been through. I agree, I cannot obviously control whether she goes to the wedding or not but spending time just the three of us would be a nightmare. She does her best to make me feel left out and like I'm not part of the family. So, I would just choose not to go.
That would be a hard nope for me
No vacation with SD22. I also have an SD22, Feral Forger and cannot imagine that dH would think its ok for me to vacation with someone who clearly doesnt like me.
Yes, that is how I feel. I do
Yes, that is how I feel. I do not want to spend my vacation time with someone who makes me miserable. He just wants things to be fair and equal but like a previous poster mentioned, my kids are respectful and loving to him.
She's 22! 22!!!! Not a kid,
She's 22! 22!!!! Not a kid, no way. Emphasize this with your DH. How old are the others? If they are all adults maybe no more all family trips. Do things with your only or just you and your SO.
The tricky part is that I
The tricky part is that I have one adult child myself who is 19. The other kids are under the age of 14. I have run through a lot of different options in my mind such as not inviting my adult child either (which sucks but maybe that's what needs to happen now) Or just going with my kids alone or just skipping vacation. But I know that it doesn't look good and doesn't feel right to exclude her only but then all of my kids go even though they are respectful!
Do both older young adults
Do both older young adults live in the house still? Even so, over 18, out of high school, then family vacation time may need to be curtailed. The 14 who is still there is another matter.
Can you alone take both your daughters somewhere? I don't see why you couldn't do something with only them.
No way for the vacation
Ugh this sounds alot like Bratty McBratFace (now 24).
SD is 22 and an adult. If she wants to be 'included' in family trips that she needs to behave in a way that is respectful to the whole family, which includes you. The same standard should apply to your adult kid - if he or she is polite and respectful to DH than no reason for him to be excluded. The minor kids - well they obviously go.
On the other hand - she is DH's daughter so you can't expect her to be excluded from family events such as weddings on his side of the family. If it were me, I would go and hold my nose - but make clear I want separate accomodations so SD22 should get her own room. And fly seperately too. That way I'd only have to see her during the ceremony and could mostly ghost her the rest of the time.
Similarly - any wedding on your side of the family - SD does NOT get an invite.
And like Cover said - once the kids are all adults you may want to cut the 'family' trips all together especially if they make drama. Or just you and your adult bios once in awhile. The rest of the time - you and DH can enjoy some vacations on your own.
Great advice. I totally agree
Great advice. I totally agree with you. However, with the wedding, I know even if we had separate accommodations and flights that she would be attached to her dad the entire trip. And he would want to be spending a lot of time with her also. Whenever she is around him, she always has to steal the seat right next to him, walk right next to him, completely monopolize his attention, etc. so, I probably would just not go. And next year we do have a wedding in my family and she most definitely will not be invited to that.
Not going
Is certainly an option. But it really hurts your standing and relationship with his whole side of the family. Unless they are all a miserable bunch I would go. Let SD cling to DH during the ceremony and reception. Stay until dinner and until the bride and groom stop by so you can wish them well and smile for the photos. No need to stay till the end - leave after that and go back to your room with a 'headache'. Let SD and DH stay if they want - you can curl up in your nice room with a book. The rest of the time you can order room service, book a spa treatment, hang by the pool, etc. Ignore SD all together, even she's being clingy.
My brother-in-law doesn't get along with our side of the family and never goes to our family events. Over time it's really caused a wedge in the marriage to the point where my sister is considering leaving. So I don't know that completely avoiding family events - especially big ones like destination weddings- may not be the best for the long term. Just food for thought.
There has to be a balance when everyone in the mix is decent.
We spend far more time with my family than we do my ILs. We visit my parents, they visit us, we visit my brother's family, they visit us. We do visit my ILs but far less freqeuntly and they never visit us. Partly due to a lack of resources and partly due to an extreme hesitancy to leave their small home town. My family are international nomads. Including my bride. My DW's family are comfortable in their small town. Nothing wrong with that, it is just who they are and who we are.
My DW is extremely close with my parents. They do not call her their DIL, they call her their daughter. I get a passing mention as her husband.
I also never win an arguement. It ends with "don't make me call your mother".
We are due for a trip to SpermLand to visit my ILs. That may come fairly soon so we can fit a long weekend in before tax season starts.
PTSD
on vacations with my ex SD. DO NOT GO. If you have resentment now towards your DH a vacation will magnify this into eternity. Again, DO NOT GO.
As for the destination wedding with the lil B. HELL NO!
Can you get away with not going. Let your DH go with the princess? Or would that be worse for you?
Its a damned if you go, damned if you dont kind of thingy
Best of luck
I can definitely see how this
I can definitely see how this would magnify my resentment. I think I would probably just be miserable the whole time and thinking about things that pissed me off. I think that if I decide not to go, he will decide to stay with me. He is not quite sure he even wants to go to the wedding in the first place.
Back in the days when I was
Back in the days when I was trying too hard and cared if the skids liked me, I suggested a vacay with them. Someplace between our home and Skidville. DH and SD ran with that idea and my modest beachside vacay turned into a major urban swanky hotel vacay. He told me about it and all I said was that wasn't what I wanted to do.
Never brought it up again.
If your SD is an adult, she can attend the wedding if she wants to. She can plan her trip and pay for it. Since she was invited, there isn't anything you can do about that. But you don't have to be the cruise director for her. Ever. You and DH make your own plans, and he can carve out some time to spend with her too while you do other things.
UMMMM
Yes I guess all you can do is say it! My DH asked mine to go right after she came over saying I shouldn't be here when she comes over.. it can be crappy!
last time SD was on family
last time SD was on family vacation with us it was a nightmare. she faked a sprained ankle. I saw her through the window just fine, DH saw her walking away from him down a walk way no problem, DDs saw her walking into the kitchen like normal... all with NO favoring of the leg... she was OBVIOUSLY faking... we all mentioned it looks like she's feeling better, she says no, then all of a sudden starts limping again.
After a meal everyone was leaving the dinner table, one of the DDs said something funny (this was over a year ago, I can't QUITE recall what was said) and I laughed, but SD turned around yelling at them that they said something about her faking being hurt (I swear it had NOTHING to do with SD at all... like I think it had something to do with either dinner, or the animals on the farm we were staying at, like saying that we ate them for dinner (which we did not, it was just a joke) or something along those lines) but she was having a FIT over us all asking if she was feeling better all day, and that DDs are making fun of her, and that we don't believe her EVER (she is literally the biggest liar, drama queen, master manipulator you'd ever meet). DH got MAD at DDs saying that they need to apologize to SD... shortly after we got home from that vacation, SD told DH that she wasn't going to be coming over for a while, that it was harmful to her mental health.... *insert huge eye roll*,
then this year directly before our family vacation SD decided that since we didn't all believe her lies and cater to her whims, she left vowing to not come over for a while, again, because we are harmful to her mental health *insert another giant eye roll* ... and THIS family vacation was 100% better, we ALL had a fun relaxing time, except we got locked out of the house because the door stuck LOL!!!!!
WANTING TO ADD: I believe mental health is a real, and serious topic, but I DO believe that people like BM and SD make sh!t up to get attention
So what I am saying, if at all possible exclude SD from family vacations
He answered his own question.
"why would you be uncomfortable? She is one of our kids."
ONE of your kids.
So are yours. So, everyone goes, or no one goes. If your kids are not invited to the wedding, they get a day cruise, spa day, etc, etc, etc... during the wedding events.
Update
Thank you to all who answered and posted. I agree that my husband is a huge part of the problem as he seems to care more about her feelings than about mine in ANY situation. We sat down and had a coming to Jesus talk in which he said that he finally gets it. He understands why I am disengaging from her and that I no longer want to spend any time with her unless things are different. He had asked her over the holidays to come sit down and have a talk with us so we could try to hammer through these issues but she refused. So here we are.
To clarify about the wedding, my husband is not thrilled about going in the first place and so if we decided not to go, we would decline as a couple. For those posters who mentioned letting him kind of do their thing and let her be clingy, well I just don't think that I would react to that very well. It would drive me crazy to be sitting in a hotel room thinking about them out in paradise having a great time together. I realize some of this is my own issues. But I don't necessarily think that would make me feel any better. As of right now, she will not be coming on our summer vacation. I guess I am just struggling to decide if that means my adult child will no longer be coming on vacations with us as well or if she is the only one excluded which also doesn't feel great.
Is your 19yo living
Is your 19yo living independently like she is? There's a huge difference between someone who is still at home but studying and someone who is out in the world and living in her own home with her boyfriend. She has outgrown the family unit. She is adulting. She should be setting up her own vacations with her bf and not expecting daddy to cater for both them.
Yes my 19 year old is also
Yes my 19 year old is also living independently in his own place. I honestly think the reason my husband wants her to come so badly is because she vacations with her mom and stepdad several times a year in different states and even different countries. So again, it feels like a competition thing.
Makes sense
If you're husband doesn't want to go then its his call on skipping the wedding.
For the vacation - I don't think 19 is the same as 22. I also don't think a 19 year old who gets along with everyone should be excluded by some arbitrary rule. Because if SD22 had a better attitude - she would be included too. If she was asked to sit down to talk about the issues and refused - then there is DH's answer to her if she complains about being left befind. But really it seems like DH wanting to keep up with BM that is the issue, as you noted.
He gave you an out!
The fact that SD knows that here relationship with you is awful, AND she refused to come to make it better could be the out you need. You're not leaving SD out and including DD19. You have the same expectations for all the kids. All of them should be able to spend time with you and your DH, in your home, modelling appropriate behaviour. If any of them are not able to do that, then they are excluded from the next family vacation (your summer vacation). If she continues to refuse to make amends, you can continue to have all of the kids except her, guilt free.
Stop thinking of it as excluding her and making her different, and instead focus on having the same expectations for all of them.