Over the top text messages
My hubby and his daughter (my 32 yr old SD) send each other over the top (in my mind) text messages to each other. They text-"I miss you-love you!" or "I'm thinking of you-love you so much!" and will go back and forth "I love you"-"I love you too". If I didn't know it was his daughter, I would think he was having an affair. She is a 32 yr old, divorced, personal trainer who is very self-centered, needs tons of attention, narcissist, loud, annoying, and everyone caters to her. I am really bothered by their lovey-dovey texts and when they see each other, they hug for very long moments and keep telling each other "I love you, daddy"- "I love you, too, T". To me, its way over the top and almost inappropriate. I know nothing untoward has happened, but the touchy-feely, lovey dovey stuff is getting to me. Help!
BTW-this is the same daughter
BTW-this is the same daughter I wrote about in my previous post.
Ew.
Ew.
Double-ew.
Double-ew.
It doesn't sound like a father-daughter relationship to me.
I read your former blog
I agree, it's gross. On the bright side, it doesn't sound like it's quite as bad as it was then with her rubbing up against him. I guess if it's just mostly the texts, whatever.
I have a GD who is high attention, too. She's a good person but the "Me, me, me" is tiring. Her dad is a nice, single man and its a shame he doesn't have a girlfriend. But it's probably just as well, GD would make her crazy with the "Dad, dad, dad". Sigh.
He is having an affair. Look
He is having an affair. Look up mini-wife or DaughterWife or Emotional affair too. You don't need to be going at it with so-and-so in the NoTel Hotel to be having an affair. Sex, in and of itself, doesn't have as much to do with an affair as does the emotional part of it and what that implies. You didn't give other examples or too much info., but a DH doesn't get a pass on having an emotional affair with his child or ex-wife (which certainly can happen too) just because of a divorce. You, I'm sure, are expecting to be a wife or SO to your DH, and not competing for the #1 spouse spot with another woman. By allowing this, your DH is setting up his daughter and you as 1:1 competitors. He should be treating his daughter like a daughter and you like the SO or spouse that you are. These are two completely different roles, and there should be no real competition going on for dad's time and attention. But, thanks to him, there is.
Also, because both dad and daughter usually enjoy these types of relationships and see nothing wrong with them at all--they all think it is everyone else--it is very difficult to get either one to change. Your DH will just blame you. You might want to speak with a counselor about this, because you may have to decide if it is something you can just live with or leave.
I should get some counseling
I should get some counseling because on the surface I have tolerated the behavior for the most part. This girl causes so much drama and after her last tantrum, I told my hubby I never want to see her or hear about her again. I also laid out the ulitmatum that if he chooses to resume his relationship again (in this weird way), then I will not be around when she sh**'s on him again. So we do not talk about her any longer and I thought he had backed off with his over the top lovey dovey stuff. But when I saw the latest text messages, they are right back as they were. I have underlying resentment and that isn't good. I appreciate hearing that I am not being unreasonable and that this behavior is not normal. It's sad.
He won't change...
Seeking counseling is a great start for you to help yourself. Your DH will likely not change his lovey dovey texts and behaviors with his adult daughter. I left a 5 yr relationship just over two months ago over this...I had no idea how intimate their physical touch was until I saw it and then saw the texts with the red hearts to each other and !!!!! on every message to each other....I asked DH 'where are my red hearts and !!!!! ?' He didn't get it. When I saw him laying across her bed (bedroom door open so he/she wanted to be 'caught') and both of them face to face with arms wrapped around each other and her FAKE crying...she looked at me over his shoulder and gave me that look. Yep, THAT look, like 'Yes, he's mine' without a tear in sight...I knew I had to leave and I did.
So when we fuss and tell DH 'I don't want to see that or hear you two carry on like that...' It will make it more exciting for him to sneak around behind your back with his interactions, as with triangulation and the emotional affair he has with her. Do you ever notice when you and DH are upset with each other that he gravitates towards his daughter more?
No idea why these men even try to have adult relationships when they are still having emotional affairs with the BM or teen/adult daughters. I hope you can find a way to handle this and expecting him to change might be too lofty a goal but sometimes it works, it's worth a try, but definitely seek out counseling for yourself.
This is very VERY odd.
This is very VERY odd.
I had a great Dad (rip)
ewww, I honestly can not imagine talking with OR to him in such a romantic manner. OMG this is gross.
Dont EVEN say 'everyone is different"...some things should not be different. This is one of those things.
She is a weirdo..
Thank you
Thank you to all who replied. It has helped me immensely to know that I am not imagining things. I have contacted a professional mental health counselor who specializes in these types of issues. I will keep you updated so this may help others with the same kind of concerns I have. I love Step Talk-it really helps. I am very thankful.
DeenieV, take care of
DeenieV, take care of yourself, and hugs and kisses too! We are all rooting for you.
Talked to Counselor
I am giving an update about my situation. I did talk to a counselor and she is recommending that my DH and I go to joint counseling together-something called emotionally focused couples therapy. She agrees that my SD has some major issues going on in her life and the mini wife syndrome is real. However, she feels that my husband is the one who has to hear from me my exact concerns and feelings, plus explain mini wife syndrome. This will not be easy. After I have this conversation, it will be imperative that we attend counseling sessions together. She feels the counselor will mostly focus on my DH and try to figure out the reasons why he has no emotional boundaries when it comes to his daughter. I am not looking forward at all to this conversation because it will hit him out of the blue. Anyway, to be continued...thanks everyone for your support!!
Often parents will use a kid
Often parents will use a kid as an emotional/physical replacement of their former spouse after the divorce. Terrible for the kid who now has to be emotionally responsible for the parents. All the excessive physical touching is part of this cycle too. It's easy to be annoyed with SD in this situation but remember that your DH is the one who likely made her this way. He gets all his needs met by SD except for sex (let's hope). We always think they'll change and not be so weird after marriage, but no. The pattern is set and they will literally have to "break up" and reestablish their father/daughter relationship in a healthy way if you want normalcy in your marriage. At this stage in the game I highly doubt either of them will willingly change. DH may appear to comply but it would only be on the surface while he hid their communications and meeting. Counseling would help but he has to want it. Unfortunately few men are willing to put their ego aside and let an outsider tell them they may be wrong.
Had the talk!
Well, things came to a head this past weekend. After waiting for the right moment to sit down and talk about Mini-Wife, I had gotten mad at him over another issue and told him, "while we're at it (me being mad at him), this is what's really bothering me". He was not prepared for what I said about Mini-Wife syndrome. He literally did not react and just sat there. He didn't argue with me. He did agree that some of the past behavior of his precious daughter was unacceptable, but now she is making major changes in her life for the better. As I have asked him not to tell me anything about her, he did not go into detail. He kept saying: "if I could tell you what she's doing, you might agree with me". I literally threw my hands in the air, told him that if she hurt him again with her immature actions, I was done. Only then did he react by saying, "I don't like to hear that". He is so afraid of people leaving him that he will do anything to keep them in his life, even if he gets shit on. She has him wrapped around her finger again-I know it instinctively. I also told him that since she doesn't have a SO in her life right now, she substitutes him for emotional support. He didn't disagree. He hates confrontation. It's hard to really argue because he's very calm and just takes it. So really, nothing has changed. I blew my stack, he sat there and took it, and now we are just ignoring the entire conversation and moving along. The problem is: I'm not over it. I will stay in the marriage because aside from this issue, we have a great relationship and marriage. I need to learn how to let go of these feelings and move on. Right now, it's so hard to do. What should I have expected? She is his daughter. Ugh-this is one of the hardest things I've ever dealt with. And he will be seeing her again this upcoming weekend-I am not going. I can only imagine the affection that will be shown between the two of them without my presence. If someone has any advice on how to get this out of my head, I am welcome to hear it! If I am at fault, tell me. I feel that if I had addressed this issue much sooner, I wouldn't be letting it get to me as much. All I can think of when I know they are texting/calling or seeing each other in person is how much back and forth "I love you"-"I love you too!" goes on. I'm going crazy.
“What should I have expected?
“What should I have expected? She is his daughter.” You should have expected him to treat a daughter like a daughter and a wife like a wife.
This is not how fathers and daughters act, and this is not how they act in pretty much every country in the world, by the way: “My hubby and his daughter text--"I miss you-love you!" or "I'm thinking of you-love you so much!" and will go back and forth "I love you"-"I love you too. . . and when they see each other, they hug for very long moments and keep telling each other "I love you, daddy"- "I love you, too, T.”
DennieV, you are not wrong in any manner, shape or form. I mean, really!? What woman would ever put up with her husband incestuously speaking with one of his blood-relatives? No woman would. Just because the term SM is thrown in there that doesn't mean you have to turn a blind eye to it? No way. You do not have to suck it up and take such nonsense.
If you want to stay married, the only thing I could suggest is disengagement to the extent that there is your and DH's home, and she is not permitted there. If DH wants to see her, he can see her elsewhere. And, don't let your DH's inaction make you feel guilty about anything. For some reason, divorced dads are particularly keen on this and making what are genuine concerns of their wife/ SM sound insignificant and like poor ol' dad is doing nothing wrong, and poor him to have to be put in the middle yet again.
HE IS NOT treating his daughter like a daughter. He is treating his daughter more like a wife. No bones about it. You, on the other hand, he appears to be treating more like a daughter--acknowledging your concerns in a logical manner, while at the same time, I would guess, dismissing them as insignificant rants.
RED FLAG. You need to decide what you are going to do about this. You may decide to do nothing, but once you've seen your own husband "flirting" with one of his blood relatives, no one can take that away from your brain, because, you should be bothered by it. Everyone else sure as H- would be.
Call movers to pack up and leave this weekend...
Get the heck out this weekend while your DH is off having his weekend with his 'mistress miniwife' to celebrate Father's Day!
I left a similar situation 3 months ago, STBXH was talking to me like I was a child (or airhead like EggDonorBioMom) and the SD24 DaughterWife like the newly married wifey. Sick sick sick
I want nothing to do with incest...nope, no way, no how! THAT...is a deal-breaker in my book and what I witnessed between the two of them still haunts me and it was under the roof of the house that was supposed to be our marital home. Therapy is helping me a great deal. I'm in such a BETTER place now than three months ago, both mentally and physically.
We are here to support you and I cannot tell you that divorce is the only option. With regard to what you posted about your DH's reactions and lack thereof...just do research on Narcissistic Personality Disorder...likely he and miniwife have traits or the personality disorder...read about Narcissus adoring his reflection in the water. They adore each other because they are so much alike, perhaps? We don't need to diagnose. Understanding (not tolerating/allowing) how DH has deep issues can hopefully help you not feel so down on yourself sweetie.
Please continue counseling for yourself, hugs
Don't forget to call the movers
I feel this so deeply
I don't have much to add to this as you have received some excellent advice and feedback, however I can say that I sympathise and understand completely where you are coming from. It would have taken a lot of energy to have had that conversation with DH only to have him sit there and basically not react. If your man is cut from the same mold as mine they pride themselves in how "calm" they are, when in fact to us they come across as cold and callous by not acknowledging our feelings. What you are describing is similar to someone who has had an affair, you forgive them, but you can never really trust them afterwards and you spend your time and energy finding out if they are still seeing that other woman. I came across an old post on this site, from years ago, where the poster asked for advice on a spoiled SD and after all the advice she received she finished the thread with "I simply have to disengage and just try to be happy.....otherwise carrying on the way I am is like breathing in poison every day and hoping for someone else to die. My situation is not ideal...The reality is that no matter what, being his daughter, she won't go away; and the only person who is disposable in this equation is me". It rang true to me and my situation and it is the conclusion you are coming to. I don't know there is much you can do, but just know that you have done everything right and you are completely validated in feeling this way. You couln't have addressed it sooner because it doesn't appear that he thinks he has done anything wrong. The issue is that your own mental and physical health is impacted and that is not ok. This is eating away at you and your only options are to either surrender/accept the situation or leave the marriage. Easier said than done.
You cannot beat yourself up
You cannot beat yourself up about what you did or did not do earlier in your marriage. Though addressing problems is IMHO the only way to drive improvement.
Your DH will visit with his daughter and though you will not hear about it, you will see how he is following that visit. I think that you should keep him repeatedly seasoned on Mini-Wife behaviors, etc... so that his interface with her will occur with cognizance of her past behavioral crap. If he is uncomfortable about that behavior it will stand out for him during each visit he has with her. If she is truly improving, he will recognize true improvement, as he will recognize manipulation and sickly sweet toxicity if she is playing those cards with him. Before he leaves for a Mini-Wife visit, just tell him to be careful and take care of himself with her since she will likely at some point revert to her proven past Mini-Wife behaviors. That should tune him appropriately for each visit going forward. Lather, rinse, repeat.
Good luck.
You are not going crazy. SD is doing whatever she can to make you and her own father crazy.
Don't tolerate it.
She has miniwiwfe syndrome
She has miniwife syndrome
Thank you
OMGosh-the support and advice you are giving me is truly unbelievable and appreciated! I am very thankful for all who have responded and are helping guide me down this path. I hope I can return the favor some day.
Love and hugs...
Take care of you.
Take care of you.
Talkspace
Hi,
I just signed up for therapy in Talkspace since it's difficult to find a therapist for face-to-face consultation. I will update you on how I feel this is working. Just learned that DH met his mini-wife for dinner the other night-I didn't know about it. And then again for Father's Day with both daughters (without me-which was planned). Last night we met normal SD and hubby/child for dinner which went fine until saying goodbye. Had to watch the over the top hugging-love you, love you too- again and left feeling like crap. Gosh-I hope I can get a handle on this. It's destroying me mentally. Again, I am very appreciative of this platform.
DeenieV
Sneeky crap can't happen.
Sneeky crap can't happen. Ever.
Work on you and being able to handle planned Skid interface. Give DH clarity that if he is being sneaky he will be gone. Ask him if he thinks any of his BKs will take him in when you boot his ass to the curb for sneaking around behind your back. Emotional incest is no different than commiting adultery IMHO. It is not acceptable.
I appreciate your answer
Hi Rags, I appreciate your answer. However, the situation I'm in is that I had told him during our first "conversation" having to do with my issues with his daughter is that I never want to hear anything about her. I didn't want to ever talk to her or see her again. And he has upheld his promise not to do so. Once in awhile he will ask if I want to hear how she's doing because he thinks she has changed for the better, but I told him no. So he left his phone in my purse the other night and when I went to the bathroom, I looked at the texts between him and her. That's how I learned he was seeing her. I am to blame for sneaking a look at his conversation. I am unable to let him know how I found out about them meeting, unless I come clean, which I am probably going to do soon, as it is driving me crazy knowing what he did. But if I hadn't looked, I wouldn't have known, so the fault lies with me. Just imagining the two of them together is stuck in my head and that's why I need counseling. I need to learn how to handle this. I can't even stand him hugging me right now. He knows something is wrong, but of course, since he hates confrontation, he doesn't pursue it very much. And even when we left the restaurant with his other "normal" daughter, they stood in the parking lot, huggy-huggy, lovey-lovey- and it triggered all those feelings, too.I am thinking of the option of leaving him, but first want to try therapy. I appreciate your support.
Father's Day
Just a note-neither one of his daughters gave him a Father's Day card or present. He went to visit them and HE bought the pizza! They NEVER give him a gift or card. It just totally pisses me off. My daughter (26) ALWAYS gets him a birthday card, Father's Day card, and Christmas present. It's unbelievable how selfish his own kids are. I told him from now on, they get NOTHING from us for their birthdays or Christmas. It will certainly save us a lot of money! LOL
Lol. I battle with my
Lol. I battle with my parents constantly over the bill for meals when we go out together. For decades they would not let us pay even for our own. Finally we landed on splitting it down the middle. Now we have a thing where the one who gets the extra penny complains that they got screwed on the bill. It is a banter thing between dad and I.
If we are together for mom or dad's birthday, FD, MD or their anniversary I make sure that the bill is brought to me. Mom and dad always protest when I do that. But that is on them to get over.
When mom and dad, my brother and I are all together, the bill gets really interesting. Usually my brother and I split it. Of course mom and dad protest. That is still their problem.
I am sorry that the dynamic with your Skids and their dad is so one sided and exploitative.
Our family dynamic is blessedly not that way.
ss33 brought his car over for
ss33 brought his car over for DH to work on on Fathers Day. Luckily DH has learned a little and merely instructed ss on what to do rather than doing the work for him.
That is typical punishing daddy behavior because he's not doing
what they want.
As long as you remember it is ALWAYS ALL ABOUT THEM you'll do fine with them not getting him anything, a card, or going above and beyond. It's about marital disruption. They live for it.
If you think he's not getting them anything for their birthdays or Christmas, you're sadly mistaken. Just as he conjured up the Father's Day "love fest" he will continue to do so on those "important" dates too, in order to stay in their good graces, and prove his loyalty.
It's no fun, believe me, I know, but you have to protect your sanity, your peace and guard your heart.
Another talk with hubby
I had my hubby in the car for a long drive and brought up everything again-how I feel about his daughter and their actions when together. I told him I did not want him sneaking behind my back to see her. He agreed. He is also willing to go to counseling so that's a really good thing! He did tell me that "she is my daughter and I will not stop seeing her". I told him that was fine-I just never want to see her or hear about her. And if she hurts him again, I will have no sympathy whatsoever. I am tired of being the one who tries to stand up for him. He needs to grow a pair (which I have actually told him before); however, when it comes to his girls, that is not going to happen. They will always be his little darlings. So I am going to individual counseling to work on how to deal with the feelings that arise whenever I know he and his daughters either communicate with each other or see each other. I am looking forward to couple counseling, too. I will stay in touch to let you know how things go and if I can offer any advice to anyone else facing this issue. It's very hard to deal with. I hope I can overcome what I feel. Thanks again for all the input!!