How Long Should it Take a New (Seemingly Educated) Graduate Take to Get a Job?
First, I'm going to start with what's I'm grateful for...
SS22 does not live in my house
SS22 does not live close enough to randomly "drop by" unexpected to socialize, empty our refrigerator, drink illegally or generally be a pain in my a$$ (anymore)
Here's my problem...
SS22 "graduated" from college in December. I assume this is true because his student loan bills have started coming in (and BD, my DH is paying them despite the fact the kid was supposed to be "on his own at 18" then "on his own after sophomore year", then "on his own at 21", then "on his own at graduation".
SS worked last summer (kinda) and saved absolutely no money. He worked something like 10 hours per week in the fall at school making ~$9/hour. And, to our knowledge didn't save any of that. Upon graduation he took a 6 week long "vacation" visting his BM on the East Coast. Then he extended it to "work" which turned out being taking random photographs for his Mom's friend's social events. Whatever.
I've been hearing for YEARS about how SS22 was going to graduate making an exorbitant income despite the fact that the field he desires to work in he holds a MINOR and there are folks on the market who have multiple masters and doctorates that can't get jobs. He's posted on his personal website that he's looking for "free lance" work. Are you kidding me? When I graduated from college I was just happy to have a job and I started looking for said job 6 months before graduation. I worked two jobs in college in the mean time.
All I keep hearing from Dad is about what a remarkable future his son has ahead of him and though I truly hope that's the case I think they are both smoking crack. In addition, because both his father and I (mostly I) made pretty ridiculous sacrifices to delay our own savings, retirement options, etc. so that he could go to an expensive school blah blah blah... we're just getting close to being back on our feet financially and I'm pretty just plain TICKED that the kid hasn't bothered to get a job (the ones he's found are 'beneath him', per him) after we spent $100K on his education.
I know I should be pleased that he hasn't moved back in here (yet). And, he largely ignores me (also offensive, but whatever) and is not looking at graduate school (another $40K/y). My husband say kid is "on his own" now but I've been told that story so many times I don't believe it any more.
I need some guidance on how not to continue being this bitter. I feel like it's only a matter of time before he's going to be asking for money again (granted my husband isn't subsidizing him and I don't know it) or moving into my home.
Anyone out there successfully dealt with similar drama as of late?
Pink, I really feel for you.
Pink, I really feel for you. I would insist you are not going to pay another dime for anyone who treats you with disrespect. Is there any way you can separate finances so you are not paying for SS out of your pocket? That way if SS decides to spring graduate school on you DH will have to deal with the expense and will possibly decide he does not want to be so generous. This happened with my DH when I separated our finances.
Hi sandye21... thank you so
Hi sandye21... thank you so much for this. Your response means a lot. My DH and I have had separate finances for quite some time now and it was working nicely for awhile. Then around Christmas time our joint checking account (for only joint household expense) was compromised (bank's mistake thinking it was fraud) and since we had everything automated (he was in charge of this) we missed a month and then almost two of mortgage payments before we realized it. Just as much my fault as his.
Problem there was that I had just taken a new job (1099 instead of salary so I was saving for my quarterly taxes). When we got in trouble he transferred a LOT of money from our "joint" savings to checking to get current on the mortgage. It was the right thing to do to not mess up our credit with a late mortgage payment. Except, he committed to helping me "replenish" those funds (I agreed to 50/50 though none of the money that was moved he had contributed to though I'm not usually a raging B!tch about this stuff). He committed to putting his portion back inside a month (tomorrow is a month) and he hasn't put a penny back. I foresaw this but I was curious what he would say when it actually came true.
I'm not too terribly worried about him giving the kid boatloads of money (okay, worried but not THAT worried) because I don't think he could justify it when the kid has had every opportunity planted in his lap and he has screwed up pretty much every one of them. I can't even imagine taking a lengthy vacation (even if his mother funded it) when I didn't have any idea how I was going to pay rent or even EAT when I got back... but thus is the life of millenials, I guess.
Every day that I hear about the fact he doesn't have a job yet, no income, and is potentially turning down the jobs that he could truly land because the jobs aren't "what he wants to do", "good enough" or "don't pay enough". Last I checked when you need a job, especially when you haven't bothered to make yourself marketable you take what you can get.
I just want to not be so bitter as I fear the wagons will be circling soon and Disney Daddy will make it sound like "I want to help, but your step monster won't let me..."
So, create a burning platform
So, create a burning platform to scorch this kids feet. He can either launch or burn.
We did this with SS-25 when he was 18. He could have gone to any university in the world that he got accepted to on our dime. I am actually very proud of him for having the maturity to stand his ground on our pressure to get his butt into college. After all of his Sr year of HS with us badgering him get his applications in, etc ... he finally sat us down and told us "I am not ready to study. I plan on going to college but if I go now it will be a waste of your money and my time." Though it was irritating when he told us I respected that he was mature enough to recognize his situation.
So, the deal was he could live at home at no cost as long as he had a full time job.... NOPE! He overstepped when he told us that he didn't want a job. Since Sofa Rodeo was not a viable career choice in our home we turned him into our beck-and-call boy/chore bitch. He graduated HS 3mos before he turned 18 so we kept him on our dime and let him sow his oats the summer after he graduated but on his 18th B-day.... we slapped him in the face with adulthood.
We worked that kid's butt off. So much so that 4mos after he turned 18 he enlisted in the USAF.
7 years later he is a Staff Sgt, has recently been stationed to Germany on a 3yr assignment, and has three more years to go on his second enlistment. He is getting closer to completing his BS in Computer Science and since he is committed to 10yrs he intends to do 20 and earn his USAF retirement before taking up a private sector career. With his USAF job will do well in the private sector after her retires.
So... light that platform on fire.... cut off the Parental/SParental gravy train and let the new college graduate either fly on his own or crash and burn. Either way... he will learn valuable life lessons.
IMHO of course.
Thanks, Rags... you are
Thanks, Rags... you are always a good source of reason...
My own parents (step father to be exact) sat me down in 8th grade and said "we can't afford a fancy school... we *might* be able to help pay for state school but don't count on it". I was ticked but it was one of the best things that ever happened to me. I made great grades, got a free ride, and have had great jobs ever since. I think one of the reasons was I actually had to WORK for it.
My husband went to a (paid for) military college, his brother joined the army and let them pay for school. Both his sisters paid for their own education. This little *snowflake* however worked a few inconsistent random part time jobs through part of college ~10-15 hours per week even during the summer while his father and I sacrificed our savings and getting ahead on retirement funds to ki$$ his a$$.
My DH has told me SO many times that "we're done" financing his play life. He just turned 22YO and I still stumble upon hundreds of dollars of cell phone bills and Daddy is now paying his school loans (though he agreed that he wouldn't do that) and I'm afraid I've lost trust that he's going to keep his word.
And, he's brilliant in turning it around on me... "Are you going to throw away our marriage over a few hundred bucks until he has the tools to be successful on his own". I want to say, "No, if I do leave you it will because I can't trust you to keep your word". I guess this situation as gotten much bigger than I thought it could.
Depends on what field he is
Depends on what field he is in. Depends on if he worked in college or not and it depends on his willingness to do grunt work for a few years.
I have friends with Masters Degrees who still haven't found steady employment. The ones that have, their employment isn't enough to offset costs so they live at home. In fact, a good majority of them live at home.
I have one friend who went to school for teaching-top of her class all the way through and she ended up nannying for years out of school. Because she lived onsite for the family, she threw ALL of her money at her student loans and paid them off. However, now she has a job as a teacher making 42k per year and still can't seem to find an affordable place to live. She currently lives with our other married friend during the week and her mom's on the weekends.
I worked in my field all through college, started as a bus monitor and over the years gained enough experience to have "been in the field: for 10 years which makes my position attainable at 28. I got lucky that my parents made me support myself through college. Like I said many of my friends are still couch surfing working dead end jobs or went back to school thinking a higher degree would help only to wind up with more debt and the same amount of opportunities.
OH and my student loan payments are $550 a month for the next 40 years....so yeah. College.
I'm fairly young so I know a
I'm fairly young so I know a LOT of recent college grads. Most had jobs by graduation or within 6 months after. There were a few exceptions - kids who majored in something where jobs require an advanced degree, and they're trying to get a job in their field with just a bachelors degree; kids with a teaching degree (especially those who would be history/english teachers) who didn't have top GPAs, want to work in the suburbs and won't apply to inner city schools; and one or two who could have a job but are holding out for something "better." I know several recent grads who aren't necessarily working in their fields, but they have entry level jobs that pay the bills.
At least in my area, there are a lot of jobs out there. They're not well paying, and many don't require a college degree, but they'll pay some bills. I can't see any reason why a healthy 22 year old can't find a job, even if it's not in his field. And if he has opportunities in his field that he thinks are beneath him or don't pay enough, he should take them because it's always good to have experience, and it always seems easier to find a job when you have a job. Having a gap on the resume will not look good to future employers - someone who graduates from college and then doesn't work at all for months is going to look either lazy or like someone no one else wanted to hire. Maybe someone needs to drill this into your SS's head.
Hi ndc... you nailed it on so
Hi ndc... you nailed it on so many fronts and one of the reasons I'm concerned.
This past summer because I was concerned SS would fail to launch I encouraged him to apply for an internship with my company (we're 400,000 employees plus) and a friend of mine was picking up interns. Thankfully, I had the foresight to make sure the hiring manager took the introduction into consideration but also bought my story when I said "I'm making the intro but PLEASE don't do this kid any special favors. My buck stops at the intro".
Kid signed an ethics clause among other things that said he would be a good company steward, that he would be respectful of himself, the firm, and our clients in social media posts and and and... I'm sure you can see where this is going. Inside of a few weeks kid popped off on MY facebook page (thank GOD I don't use my real name) implying that I am a C*NT. I didn't even see the post (I don't frequent FB that often and even less frequently comment) but his Boss who does happen to be my FB friend called him out on it. I would have fired the kid on the spot by his Boss let him play out the summer. All of the other interns that worked in his program went back to college and were making $25/h out of their dorms. My SS was not afforded that opportunity for obvious reasons. Of course this whole situation was MY fault because supposedly I reported him to HR. And, if that doesn't make things obvious enough... his job preceding this one was as a "social media evangelist" with a mid-range data company. SS popped off on social media (profanity and condescension included) to a guy who question a comment he made about the calculations he had posted... Turns out the guy he popped off to OWNED THE COMPANY KID WAS COLLECTING A PAYCHECK FROM. SMH. But, I am the crazy one!
ARE YOU IDIOTS FREAKING KILLING ME!?!? WHY WOULD I DRAW ATTENTION TO THAT!??!?
Anyhooo... I couldn't agree with you more. He's lazy and it's becoming more and more obvious. And, the latest on grad school is just a ploy to not have to join the work force as an adult.
Hi mommadukes... thanks for
Hi mommadukes... thanks for your response.
In this case SS22 wants a job in computer science with a degree in psych and a minor in Math. With family connections (mine and his Uncle's) he had all sorts of options to work in the field (even without experience) during college. He chose on the rare occasions he did work to work as a barista and sometimes making minimum wage and a undergrad teaching assistant.
Grunt work? That makes sense to the two of us (you and I) but SS won't work at a job that doesn't thrill him or he feels he's not being valued/paid enough, etc. The situation absolutely astounds me.
Like you, I worked in my field all four years of college, summers, winter/spring break... as many hours as I could land and still make good grades and keep my scholarships. It appears that kids these days just think that life is going to be served up to them on a silver freaking platter. If I had been unemployed 2 1/2 months after graduation with no leads I would at least have secured a job at Home Depot or something.
I too, explored graduate school a few years into my professional career but the ROI just wasn't there... go into about $100K of debt to make 2-5K more per year? It would have taken forever to break even and I wouldn't have had an iota of a life holding a full time job while getting my Masters. No, thank you.
You are a brave soul with those kinds of loans before you but you sound strong and I'm sure you'll make it.
It's trippy that so many parents these days think they are enabling their kids but not requiring them to support themselves. Sounds like your parents (and mine) had their heads on straight.
Only some kids/young adults
Only some kids/young adults think the world owes them a silver platter. I personally know plenty that don't think that way at all. They were raised to have a strong work ethic. It sounds like your DH is not the greatest "parent"?? More like a BFF??
You nailed it...
If I hear one more time "but he won't like me..." Okay, so let him crash and burn because he won't launch?
Or, "I can't influence/control anything he does... he's an ADULT". Yes, an adult who would be paying his own bills if you weren't standing around with a hand out all the time.
The BFF bullSh1t is baloney. I'm all for his father/son time but it's embarassing when the kid will hang out with Dad on the slopes JUST long enough to get his lift tickets paid for (and he often brings friends which my DH pays for as well) or goes with him to the movies just to get his ticket paid for.
Ugh.
Dh should call up SS and say,
Dh should call up SS and say, hey buddy your student loans is pilling up, time for you to decide, either work and start paying off debt, or get bad credit at such a young age, but we will not be supporting you any longer, you are legally an adult and my responsibilities expired the day you turned 21...
How you are going to get DH to do this is a whole other issue lol... separate finances is the best option, and make sure DH pays his 50% of household, retirement and holiday fund before bailing out SS
I think you have already had
I think you have already had very good advice from others so I won't repeat it - but just to say we are facing a similar problem. My SD23 graduated last summer, her degree totally paid for by DH (cost £60k) so she didn't even have any student loans. THEN decided she wanted to do a foundation course in drama school, 2 terms, cost a packet (DH didn't pay but did loan her £4k for living expenses).
She tried twice to get us to let her move in with us, but we haven't got room and I just don't want her here - so that is a flat "no". She is wanting to do a full drama degree - 3 more years - if she comes to DH for money she is going to go away empty handed. She wants to be a perpetual student, bankrolled of course by someone else.
Pink, I think you have a
Pink, I think you have a whole host of problems related to your SS and DH, and not all of it is simply related to him getting a job and launching.
First of all, sit down and do a rough calculation of how much of YOUR income went to supporting this kid over the years, either directly or indirectly. You said $100K was spent on his education. Was approximately 50% of that from your contribution to the "joint" effort?
If you add onto this sum the amount you've spent on other support I think you would be shocked at how much of your income went to this guy.
Then sit down and re-read your words about how SS implied you were a "c.nt" And how your work colleague saw it and had to point it out to you. That had to be humiliating. And how SS has treated others who have helped him over the years.
He is obviously hard-wired to be self-centered, sarcastic and entitled. That will not change, particularly because he has his father wrapped around his finger to be his advocate and ambassador no matter what he does.
To compound the problem, it appears your DH is, and has repeatedly, pointed at YOU as the problem since you won't go along for this ridiculous ride.
I find it highly suspicious that SS graduated in December and it was also during this same time frame that your checking account (which DH had oversight of) was compromised. He took money out of your joint savings to supposedly "fix" the problem and was also supposed to replace that money from his own funds, which he hasn't done. This is probably because:
Your DH is entirely committed to supporting his adult son however he can, including paying his phone bills and college loans. It is especially troubling because your DH promised you he would not do so. Thus, he may be starting to shift your finances around in a way that will ultimately allow him to support his son without having to explain anything to YOU about it.
This is a mere hint of things to come.
Seriously, Pink, you MUST MUST MUST start thinking about your own future, especially financially. Before you know it, your career and working years will be flying by and you may wind up with NOTHING to support you in retirement. You must also sit down and think about your relationship with DH and if it is truly making you happy.
No one knows what the future has in store for us. Ask yourself: If something happened (job loss, illness etc.) and you could not care for yourself, would your DH be willing AND able to provide support for YOU? If he had to choose to spend his money on his son or you, who would he prioritize?
Oh, and one more thing ... I would NOT let DH be the only one in charge of your finances anymore. You must take an active interest in your accounts and go over them with a fine-tooth comb each and every month.
If the bank made a mistake or
If the bank made a mistake or if it,was.fraud. The bank should of replace the money. You should of not of taken the lost
Why wasn’t the money replace. First step to to look into
Hey 2tired... thank you for
Hey 2tired... thank you for your comments. Most appreciated!
So, first of all I thought I had a general *idea* of how much money we were taking here. But just-in-case I redid the math from scratch, conservatively, and assumed that I paid 50% of everything. This is really actually quite misleading as so much money went to the kid first and before all else this meant my husband didn't have money to contribute to the down payment on our house, any moving expenses, his retirement funds (he's 50yo and has about $1000 in savings and that's only in the last few months). I think we had our FIRST vacation since we got married 6 years ago (we didn't have a honeymoon since we were saving for a house) about 2 years ago (4 years after we wed) though the kid managed to have an International vacation almost every year. That being said the kid's Mom is from overseas and I *think* she paid for most of these (while collecting food stamps paid for by our tax dollars)...
Anyhoo... my portion of the Math (not including the deficits on down payment on the house, down payment on a new car (he gave his car to the kid for high school graduation which left the two of us sharing a car)). Anyway. My contribution was $49,970. Pretty close to what I thought.
I have gone back through the bills AGAIN (I am all over the finances monthly if not weekly or even daily sometimes to make sure we're not getting hit with overdrafts and he's not out spending stupid funds). There wasn't any *funny business* and there hasn't been. We just spent a lot more than we expected on Christmas. I knew we were spending more than I wanted to but I just didn't want to get into it over Christmas and it was stuff for the house, holiday parties, etc.
On the retirement side, it's a good thing I'm a cheapskate. I have been sacking away money away since I graduated from college. It's not where I want it to be but in the last 2 years I've also managed to buy three rental properties that are providing a nice return and I have several other savings accounts, etc. The only problem I see with that is once I divide by TWO it's not that much.
He does make me happy most of the time and the only thing we fight about is money related to that spoiled brat. I am confident that he would take care of me in a job loss (though that's not likely to happen) or sickness. On the spending front until college graduation, within *reason* (the definition of which is fluid) it absolutely would be the kid. And, in all fairness since "graduation" in December outside of a sub-$100 birthday gift which I didn't mention the funds besides the cell phone have stopped. (at least since early December).
I see every penny that comes into the door (or any bank account)/brokerage fund, etc. I know where every penny goes. It sucks being a babysitter though. I do go through all these statements with a fine tooth comb but F&ck it's EXHAUSTING. And, I'm admittedly bitter about it.
I guess my biggest thing right now is waiting for the other shoe to drop. He got the last of his school loan money at the beginning of December and he's paying for rent/gas/food, etc. He's got to be about ready to run out of money... and then the fun will begin.
I'm not sure if I should buy a weapon or popcorn... thanks again for all your support.
Oh Lordy do I feel your pain.
Oh Lordy do I feel your pain. DH is paying off a parent loan for SS who didn't even complete a degree. At least SS is working and he's agreed to take on the last of the expenses we've been covering (car insurance). That was at my insistence. SS is 31. Let's see if that actually happens without me "reminding." Who is betting that he'll take care of this expense? Anyone? Hello?
There's nothing you can do about your SS. But you do have a DH problem. Does he have a plan for allowing SS to launch? Yes, DH is holding him back by not making SS accountable for his own life. DH (and you) provided a great education for him. Now it's time he enter the world of adults and not mooch off his parents, gain some self respect and confidence. You might approach DH with that logic so that at least there is a PLAN and not empty promises of "being on his own." SS needs to actually BE on his own. Provide some motivation to get there.
And the best way to find a job is to HAVE a job. Any job. I'm sure your SS has heard that but is also just sure it doesn't apply to him.
Hi Merry... all too true.
Hi Merry... all too true. Supposedly the conversation of "you're on your own" and "no more freebies, you're an adult now" has occurred. I'm sure that was some candy coated version of how awesome kid is, how he's so much more prepared for the world than my DH was/is (I don't buy into that), and how brilliant his future is going to be.
You're totally right... give it a couple more weeks and employers are seriously going to be looking around going "WTF... you graduated in December and you're just starting to look?" and, the last two jobs that he's had (outside of tutoring Freshman/Sophomores at his lower end (yet expensive) University won't give him references. In my experience this is easy to get around if you're still working there with the whole "I don't want my employer to know that I'm looking" conversation (whether true or not)..." but SS22 burned the bridge on the last job with the "C" word. And, the job before that... not sure if I mentioned this yet... popping of calling a guy an idiot on social media without understanding who that person was and it was the owner of his company. Fired on the spot. No reference there for certain.
Hoping he has professors or something that can give him references though I doubt it. Anyone graduating or just plain needing a job in general has their $h!t together LONG before 2-3 months after graduation. At this point he's going to be competing with kids who will be graduating in the in-progress semester and are looking early... who would YOU choose?
I'm sure someday the snowflake will find the perfect job, that he loves, that pays his (perceived) value, only requires him to work the hours/schedule that suits him blah blah blah... not holding my breath on this one.
The "sustainability" funds (i.e. what *someone* has to pay if he doesn't get a job) aren't coming out of this household. H3ll, maybe he'll go on foodstamps like his mother who hasn't paid a penny in child support EVER, didn't pay a penny for his education, car, clothes, books, insurance, healthcare, etc. But, she is the golden Mommy because she pays for him to travel with her food budget and lets the government take care of the rest.
Bitter, party of one... that's me!
About 10Mins. DQ is hiring for $15/hr.
Entry level professional jobs are fairly easy to access so DQ may not be necessary for your NCG SS.
I think the problem is that many NCGs have delusions of grandeur on the unicorn of the 6 figure starting salary job that many colleges/universities/academics claim are out there. Yes, they exist. But they are far from common and for most.... the path up the ladder starts with the first rung.
My mom tells a story about a conversation she had with a number of ladies in the salon when she was getting ready to travel to my and my younger brother's undergraduate graduation ceremony. The ladies were all trading kid graduation stories and my mom who was a later arrival chimed in that she was leaving that night to travel to our graduation. Many of the ladies then started in on how graduation didn't remove kids from the parental payroll because of a variety of reasons. My mom commented that both my brother and I had already accepted engineering positions with a good company. We did not go to a top tier engineering school by any means. Many of the ladies mom was with at the salon had kids who had attended top tier schools but studied non-marketable majors. Their kids were waiting tables and trying to get into grad school while my brother and I had a position with a Fortune 100 or better company, were already accepted to grad school and the company was paying for it. However, at far less than the mythical unicorn of the 6 figure starting salary.
I think the difference is that my parents kept their collective size 15 up our backsides while the other salon ladies were catering to their special spawn. Mom and dad also kept our sails deflated and in line with what the reality of starting a career really meant from an income perspective.
It took my oldest six months
It took my oldest six months to find a job in his field after graduation. However, he did continue to work twenty hours a week at the job he held while in school and worked another part time job. My youngest worked part time during college and started his full time job the week after graduation.
Both of mine were told that we'd pay for a degree that had a reasonable expectation of a job when finished. What that is though may not be obvious. Oldest had a friend who majored in archeology. He had three offers to choose from before graduation.