The first step would be to tell her. She of course will likely disagree. I would write up a plan, including what days / times you want. Exchange information (location / transportation). Holiday splits (who get which holidays in odd years / even years). Vacations (how many, how long, length of notice, can't interrupt weekend, holidays, etc). Present it to her with all of the reasons you think this is in the best interests of the kids:
1) It will give kids an opportunity to have dad be more involved in school work and activities
2) It will give kids an opportunity for bm to spend time with them on weekends when it is more "quality" time
3) It will give kids an opportunity to have a daily routine in both homes vs. a weekday routine in one home and a weekend routine in a different home.
Whatever your thoughts are on why it is best. Keep it about the kids and not what is best for you, dh or bm. Put it in writing. If she flat out disagrees or refuses, the next step is to file a petition for custody and you'll have the reasons all ready laid out. Sometimes the court system will look for a change in circumstances. Can you get BMjr's therapist to agree with you on this?
If she is willing to negotiate, listen to her thoughts.
Here's the thing, right now your dh has 8 nights a month. He is asking for 14 nights, which means it affects CS. BM will likely figure this out and fight it based on this alone. Are you willing to continue to pay support for this change to go into effect? If so, let her know that and she may not argue. If not, she will likely fight it tooth and nail.
"A pessimist complains about the wind, an optimist counts on the wind changing, a realist adjusts his sails"
1) For the kids. Their attitudes have become identical to hers. They are acting more and more as if they are "victims" of everyone else. They have missed so much school this year "because they're sick" (when dh had them, they had perfect attendance) BM complains about them missing school (and her missing work) but keeps them home for "my tummy hurts". BMjrs grades have dropped, only slightly, but considering BM is the better homework parent, this is odd and I think has to do with a lack of dad time (I think dads have a lot to do with academic performance).
2) BM is constantly complaining that DH wont help her (when the kids are sick). He is perfectly willing to help and wants them more. She seems to want to have them FT, but not deal FT with the issues. We think that changing the schedule will make the lines more clear, example - who's parenting time is whos's and who is responsible during that time.
3)THIS has nothing to do with money. She will continue to receive some support, yes it would drop, but there is not even a legal child support order at this time. We really dont care about the money, its about the kids. They need time with dad....for their own good.
BM has been a BEAR lately. I dont think she will take kindly to this at all.
But we will create a parenting plan, present it to her and see what happens. If she does freak out about it, can we just keep them anyway, while we wait for the petition of custody to go through? Since there is no CO right now...can she do anything? The current custody arrangement has only been since the beginning of last school year (1 1/2 years). Prior to that, the kids were with him (2 yrs).
Those are good reasons - though I wouldn't present "attitudes" to the court so bluntly.
Set it out for her as explained here only not so accusatory. For example "I know you've been missing work because of illnesses and this will even the burden on you" or "You've been saying you want me more involved and you're right, but I can't be more involved in your home. I need to have them more consistently for that to happen".
Play to her ego. I know it sucks but if it gets what you want, do it. For your presentation to her, make it about her and how this is good for her. If she balks and you go to court, make it about the kids. The fact that they're missing a lot of school is something I would definitely make an issue of in court.
If she says no, just keep them when you want them. Who the hell is she to decide that she is in charge when there is no paperwork. DH is just as in charge as she is.
"A pessimist complains about the wind, an optimist counts on the wind changing, a realist adjusts his sails"
I know, the attitude thing cannot be said to her or court. If is is mentioned at all it would be more about them getting a more rounded view by spending equal time with both parents.
I like these statements "I know you've been missing work because of illnesses and this will even the burden on you" or "You've been saying you want me more involved and you're right, but I can't be more involved in your home. I need to have them more consistently for that to happen".
Of course he tried something similar the other day when he mentioned to her that they should change the parenting schedule...her reaction was "I dont know why you think changing the schedule would change anything, you refuse to help out during the week".
I don't know how to get it through her head that parenting time, is just that parenting time and if they changed to 7-7, then he would be responsible for his 7 and she would be for hers. She doesnt understand the concept of who is responsible and when. Of course DH helps out all the time, just the other week we had the kids on one of her nights so she could go out with her BF's family that were in town. So he helps all the time, but he works during the day and if its her scheduled time to be with the kids and she keeps them home sick then she needs to take the day off. Just like if the kids were sick on the weekend and he had to work, he wouldnt be able to (if I couldnt watch them, if I was busy or they were puking, I dont do puke)...he wouldnt expect her to take them. But she doesnt understand this.
Ugh. So you dont think she can do anything if he decided to keep them for the week, even if she disagreed? Would that look bad in court? That he took it upon himself to change the schedule?
I think as long as you present to the court that he changed it because they're doing poorly in school and he is worried for their future.
She makes no sense "I dont know why you think changing the schedule would change anything, you refuse to help out during the week". He need to stay calm and say "well, I am not responsible for them during the week, you are. That is why I am suggesting a change in the schedule, so I will HAVE to be responsible during the week". What if instead of a 7-7 schedule, you did a 5-5-2-2 schedule, which would give her free nights during the week EVERY week? Our is like this
Wingnut has Creature Fri6 pm - Wed 6pm (5 nights)
then dh has Creature Wed 6pm - Mon 6pm (5 nights),
Wingnut has her Mon 6pm-Wed 6pm (2 nights),
Dh has her Wed 6pm - Fri - 6pm (2 nights).
It is more exchanges, but it gives consistent weekdays Wingnut always has her Monday and Tuesday, DH always has her Thursday and Friday. They split Wed and they each have her every other weekend. And it gives BM a few days every week kid-free so she isn't overwhelmed. Plus you only ever have them for 5 nights (easier than 7 in a row if they get on your nerves).
"A pessimist complains about the wind, an optimist counts on the wind changing, a realist adjusts his sails"
Dh was speaking to his lawyer buddy last night and he said that it is customary in our state to do a 4-4-3-3? I dont really understand how that works...but it might be an option. I was thinking 7-7 would be easier with their ages and school/homework etc...
No, they can't just keep the children whenever they want.
By default, and with the history of custody being that BM is the primary residence, there is already a precedent set for the current situation. Precedent is important - you have already created a "plan" and have been following it for quite a while. That's why people always say to get it in writing because if you create a precedent and follow it, it becomes the parenting plan by default and judges like status quo so, unless there's abuse or neglect happening, a judge isn't going to change what's already been in place and working.
If the Mom is agreeable to the schedule, you guys really need to wait for it to be legal before putting it into effect. If you take the kids and keep them, knowing that the regular situation is that the Mom has the kids Mon-Fri and your DH has them Fri-Sun, you could be in some serious trouble. Don't jump the shark on something like this. Be patient.
A good idea might be to move slowly, adding days gradually to see how everyone reacts, eventually getting to the 7/7 schedule. A major shift like that could really affect some kids.
It isn't a full precedent as the father had them full - time for years before this schedule. The schedule has been changed before. There is nothing in writing that says mom is the primary residence.
"A pessimist complains about the wind, an optimist counts on the wind changing, a realist adjusts his sails"
I really dont think they kids would be affected negativly if they were with us for a week all of a sudden, they ALWAYS want to be at our house, take their old bus to school, be in their old neighborhood, play with friends. They are already used to being with us every weekend, adding a couple extra days isnt going to shock their systems. We take them during the week frequently as it is, if BM asks.
Prior to the past 1 1/2 years the schedule was opposite for the 2 years prior to that. So the only precident that is set is that the schedule changes every 2 years.
I know we dont want to start a storm. Which is why I am asking. Like I said though, it wouldnt negativly affect the kids to change. They would love it. The only negative affect would be the possiblilty of BM flipping out and acting out.
I see. From your OP, I thought the schedule had been this way for a long while.
If it's changed every two years, then that's not much of a precedent. But still, it's been that way for over a year.
If you think that BM will have a cow over it though, I would really consider talking about it with her and trying to get things going that way gradually, rather than just keep the kids one day and say, "Hey, they're staying here for the week and will be back on such-and-such day." KWIM? If the kids seem to do well with the transitions, then get it in writing. But, IMHO, it might be better to ease into it so BM doesn't feel like XH is taking the kids away from her, KWIM?
I get what your saying. He will definately try to talk to her about it first. But if she does stomp her feet and disagree with any change in schedule then do you think it would be so wrong for him to just tell her...."Look, they're my kids too, you arent the only one who can make decisions about their welfare. I want them to have more time with their father so I am taking it upon myself to adjust the make shift parenting plan that we have been following and let you know that in their best interest I am going to go ahead and insist that we change the schedule to some form of 50/50. You can choose to let me know what your opinion on the best 50/50 schedule is or I will choose one myself."
Our experience with this was a little difference because there WAS a court order and custody was 50/50. It was a really weird schedule: M, W, F, Sat, Sun one week and Tue, Thu the next week. This worked out so that no parent went more than three days without seeing SD. This was in effect from the time SD was 2 until she was 9. At that time, DH thought it should change to one week with him, then one week with BM. I probably was a bit of the catalyst behind this because I said it was a pain to SD to never know where she was going to be on a given day.
So, DH discussed with BM and they agreed to the change. DH and BM only lived about 6 miles apart at the time and SD attended a private school.
The draft MTA it is written that they have joint phys and legal custody. However the parenting plan included in the DRAFT MTA (her lawyer drafted)is the school yr M-F with mom, summer with dad and EWE with DAD. But like I said it is a draft only, it is not signed and it has not been entered into the court system at all.
But they custody is JT for both physical and legal. I know that doesnt mean 50/50, but conisdering the change is circumstance and the fact that nothing is more then a mere draft. I think he should create a parenting plan and put it through the courts. He knows what he wants and I cannot see why any judge would say it is in the kids best interest to have a 70/30 split where they never have weekend "uninterupted" time with mom and never have regular routine time with dad.
The first step would be to
The first step would be to tell her. She of course will likely disagree. I would write up a plan, including what days / times you want. Exchange information (location / transportation). Holiday splits (who get which holidays in odd years / even years). Vacations (how many, how long, length of notice, can't interrupt weekend, holidays, etc). Present it to her with all of the reasons you think this is in the best interests of the kids:
1) It will give kids an opportunity to have dad be more involved in school work and activities
2) It will give kids an opportunity for bm to spend time with them on weekends when it is more "quality" time
3) It will give kids an opportunity to have a daily routine in both homes vs. a weekday routine in one home and a weekend routine in a different home.
Whatever your thoughts are on why it is best. Keep it about the kids and not what is best for you, dh or bm. Put it in writing. If she flat out disagrees or refuses, the next step is to file a petition for custody and you'll have the reasons all ready laid out. Sometimes the court system will look for a change in circumstances. Can you get BMjr's therapist to agree with you on this?
If she is willing to negotiate, listen to her thoughts.
Here's the thing, right now your dh has 8 nights a month. He is asking for 14 nights, which means it affects CS. BM will likely figure this out and fight it based on this alone. Are you willing to continue to pay support for this change to go into effect? If so, let her know that and she may not argue. If not, she will likely fight it tooth and nail.
"A pessimist complains about the wind, an optimist counts on the wind changing, a realist adjusts his sails"
The reason that we want the
The reason that we want the change is many.
1) For the kids. Their attitudes have become identical to hers. They are acting more and more as if they are "victims" of everyone else. They have missed so much school this year "because they're sick" (when dh had them, they had perfect attendance) BM complains about them missing school (and her missing work) but keeps them home for "my tummy hurts". BMjrs grades have dropped, only slightly, but considering BM is the better homework parent, this is odd and I think has to do with a lack of dad time (I think dads have a lot to do with academic performance).
2) BM is constantly complaining that DH wont help her (when the kids are sick). He is perfectly willing to help and wants them more. She seems to want to have them FT, but not deal FT with the issues. We think that changing the schedule will make the lines more clear, example - who's parenting time is whos's and who is responsible during that time.
3)THIS has nothing to do with money. She will continue to receive some support, yes it would drop, but there is not even a legal child support order at this time. We really dont care about the money, its about the kids. They need time with dad....for their own good.
BM has been a BEAR lately. I dont think she will take kindly to this at all.
But we will create a parenting plan, present it to her and see what happens. If she does freak out about it, can we just keep them anyway, while we wait for the petition of custody to go through? Since there is no CO right now...can she do anything? The current custody arrangement has only been since the beginning of last school year (1 1/2 years). Prior to that, the kids were with him (2 yrs).
Those are good reasons -
Those are good reasons - though I wouldn't present "attitudes" to the court so bluntly.
Set it out for her as explained here only not so accusatory. For example "I know you've been missing work because of illnesses and this will even the burden on you" or "You've been saying you want me more involved and you're right, but I can't be more involved in your home. I need to have them more consistently for that to happen".
Play to her ego. I know it sucks but if it gets what you want, do it. For your presentation to her, make it about her and how this is good for her. If she balks and you go to court, make it about the kids. The fact that they're missing a lot of school is something I would definitely make an issue of in court.
If she says no, just keep them when you want them. Who the hell is she to decide that she is in charge when there is no paperwork. DH is just as in charge as she is.
"A pessimist complains about the wind, an optimist counts on the wind changing, a realist adjusts his sails"
I know, the attitude thing
I know, the attitude thing cannot be said to her or court. If is is mentioned at all it would be more about them getting a more rounded view by spending equal time with both parents.
I like these statements "I know you've been missing work because of illnesses and this will even the burden on you" or "You've been saying you want me more involved and you're right, but I can't be more involved in your home. I need to have them more consistently for that to happen".
Of course he tried something similar the other day when he mentioned to her that they should change the parenting schedule...her reaction was "I dont know why you think changing the schedule would change anything, you refuse to help out during the week".
I don't know how to get it through her head that parenting time, is just that parenting time and if they changed to 7-7, then he would be responsible for his 7 and she would be for hers. She doesnt understand the concept of who is responsible and when. Of course DH helps out all the time, just the other week we had the kids on one of her nights so she could go out with her BF's family that were in town. So he helps all the time, but he works during the day and if its her scheduled time to be with the kids and she keeps them home sick then she needs to take the day off. Just like if the kids were sick on the weekend and he had to work, he wouldnt be able to (if I couldnt watch them, if I was busy or they were puking, I dont do puke)...he wouldnt expect her to take them. But she doesnt understand this.
Ugh. So you dont think she can do anything if he decided to keep them for the week, even if she disagreed? Would that look bad in court? That he took it upon himself to change the schedule?
I think as long as you
I think as long as you present to the court that he changed it because they're doing poorly in school and he is worried for their future.
She makes no sense "I dont know why you think changing the schedule would change anything, you refuse to help out during the week". He need to stay calm and say "well, I am not responsible for them during the week, you are. That is why I am suggesting a change in the schedule, so I will HAVE to be responsible during the week". What if instead of a 7-7 schedule, you did a 5-5-2-2 schedule, which would give her free nights during the week EVERY week? Our is like this
Wingnut has Creature Fri6 pm - Wed 6pm (5 nights)
then dh has Creature Wed 6pm - Mon 6pm (5 nights),
Wingnut has her Mon 6pm-Wed 6pm (2 nights),
Dh has her Wed 6pm - Fri - 6pm (2 nights).
It is more exchanges, but it gives consistent weekdays Wingnut always has her Monday and Tuesday, DH always has her Thursday and Friday. They split Wed and they each have her every other weekend. And it gives BM a few days every week kid-free so she isn't overwhelmed. Plus you only ever have them for 5 nights (easier than 7 in a row if they get on your nerves).
"A pessimist complains about the wind, an optimist counts on the wind changing, a realist adjusts his sails"
Dh was speaking to his
Dh was speaking to his lawyer buddy last night and he said that it is customary in our state to do a 4-4-3-3? I dont really understand how that works...but it might be an option. I was thinking 7-7 would be easier with their ages and school/homework etc...
No, they can't just keep the
No, they can't just keep the children whenever they want.
By default, and with the history of custody being that BM is the primary residence, there is already a precedent set for the current situation. Precedent is important - you have already created a "plan" and have been following it for quite a while. That's why people always say to get it in writing because if you create a precedent and follow it, it becomes the parenting plan by default and judges like status quo so, unless there's abuse or neglect happening, a judge isn't going to change what's already been in place and working.
If the Mom is agreeable to the schedule, you guys really need to wait for it to be legal before putting it into effect. If you take the kids and keep them, knowing that the regular situation is that the Mom has the kids Mon-Fri and your DH has them Fri-Sun, you could be in some serious trouble. Don't jump the shark on something like this. Be patient.
A good idea might be to move slowly, adding days gradually to see how everyone reacts, eventually getting to the 7/7 schedule. A major shift like that could really affect some kids.
JMHO.
It isn't a full precedent as
It isn't a full precedent as the father had them full - time for years before this schedule. The schedule has been changed before. There is nothing in writing that says mom is the primary residence.
"A pessimist complains about the wind, an optimist counts on the wind changing, a realist adjusts his sails"
That was not apparent to me
That was not apparent to me in her OP.
How long did the Dad have the kids? When did it change to the Mom and why? How many times has it changed?
I really dont think they
I really dont think they kids would be affected negativly if they were with us for a week all of a sudden, they ALWAYS want to be at our house, take their old bus to school, be in their old neighborhood, play with friends. They are already used to being with us every weekend, adding a couple extra days isnt going to shock their systems. We take them during the week frequently as it is, if BM asks.
Prior to the past 1 1/2 years the schedule was opposite for the 2 years prior to that. So the only precident that is set is that the schedule changes every 2 years.
I know we dont want to start a storm. Which is why I am asking. Like I said though, it wouldnt negativly affect the kids to change. They would love it. The only negative affect would be the possiblilty of BM flipping out and acting out.
I see. From your OP, I
I see. From your OP, I thought the schedule had been this way for a long while.
If it's changed every two years, then that's not much of a precedent. But still, it's been that way for over a year.
If you think that BM will have a cow over it though, I would really consider talking about it with her and trying to get things going that way gradually, rather than just keep the kids one day and say, "Hey, they're staying here for the week and will be back on such-and-such day." KWIM? If the kids seem to do well with the transitions, then get it in writing. But, IMHO, it might be better to ease into it so BM doesn't feel like XH is taking the kids away from her, KWIM?
JMHO.
I get what your saying. He
I get what your saying. He will definately try to talk to her about it first. But if she does stomp her feet and disagree with any change in schedule then do you think it would be so wrong for him to just tell her...."Look, they're my kids too, you arent the only one who can make decisions about their welfare. I want them to have more time with their father so I am taking it upon myself to adjust the make shift parenting plan that we have been following and let you know that in their best interest I am going to go ahead and insist that we change the schedule to some form of 50/50. You can choose to let me know what your opinion on the best 50/50 schedule is or I will choose one myself."
Our experience with this was
Our experience with this was a little difference because there WAS a court order and custody was 50/50. It was a really weird schedule: M, W, F, Sat, Sun one week and Tue, Thu the next week. This worked out so that no parent went more than three days without seeing SD. This was in effect from the time SD was 2 until she was 9. At that time, DH thought it should change to one week with him, then one week with BM. I probably was a bit of the catalyst behind this because I said it was a pain to SD to never know where she was going to be on a given day.
So, DH discussed with BM and they agreed to the change. DH and BM only lived about 6 miles apart at the time and SD attended a private school.
The draft MTA it is written
The draft MTA it is written that they have joint phys and legal custody. However the parenting plan included in the DRAFT MTA (her lawyer drafted)is the school yr M-F with mom, summer with dad and EWE with DAD. But like I said it is a draft only, it is not signed and it has not been entered into the court system at all.
But they custody is JT for both physical and legal. I know that doesnt mean 50/50, but conisdering the change is circumstance and the fact that nothing is more then a mere draft. I think he should create a parenting plan and put it through the courts. He knows what he wants and I cannot see why any judge would say it is in the kids best interest to have a 70/30 split where they never have weekend "uninterupted" time with mom and never have regular routine time with dad.