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It never ends- BM and the house

Redsonya's picture
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Hi all,

So BM and DH still own a house jointly that she lives in with the kids. Judgement on the house was reserved by the judge when they divorced two years ago. It's underwater so it won't sell and BM can't refinance in her name because her income isn't high enough. We would take it over and rent it out if she wanted to walk away (she keeps trying to work out a short sale). At this point, she is constantly late on the mortgage and refuses to work more than 30 hours a week. The child support was just recalculated to guidelines (from $2000 to $895) and SD will be 18 next June so support will be reduced again. I expect her to basically stop making the payments so DH sent her a very professional email today letting her know that he was tracking payment of the mortgage so that it didn't affect his credit, providing links to several programs to get the payment refinanced or reduced and offering to help with that process, and then stating that if she didn't pay the mortgage, we would and would be taking it from the child and spousal support.

What do you think of this - a lawyer friend of DH's suggested it. I've been doing some research and it sounds like what we should do is request the judge to make a judgement that BM has exclusive use of the house and order her to pay the mortgage.

sixteensmom's picture

Be very careful withholding cs and alimony to pay the mortgage. You'll end up paying the mortgage and all the back support when she takes u to court.

herewegoagain's picture

It doesn't matter what a judge says actually...my DH and idiot were divorced and the house was still in both their names. The mortgage companies, just like creditors, could care less what a judge says. If his name is on the debt, his credit will be ruined...end of story. You do need to go to a judge and show him that you are making the payments because she is not and I would hope they would kick her out or have you pay the mortgage 100% and leave her there, but ensure that when the last kid is 18, she is out and all the money you paid is not split in 1/2 after the sale.

PS - not sure why the lawyer suggested that letter because your DH can't legally do that and thus a judge could take that as a "threat"...sigh

wkd_sm's picture

I have a question for you. Why was CS recalculated to guidelines? It seems that the $2000 might have been agreed upon by the BM and DH after they got divorced.

The reason I ask is because my ex and I agreed upon a settlement in which he pays me more CS (about $500 more) so that I can afford to keep the house and pay the mortgage. We own it jointly as well, and when we sell it, the proceeds will be split 50/50. We have 3 kids, the oldest being 13 and the youngest being 5.

Do you guys think this is unfair? I don't have to deal with a SM for my kids because the ex is single but will things change later if he does get remarried?

Our reasoning (well, perhaps mine, but he agreed!) was that I would have primary custody of the children as I had been a stay at home mom (or just working part time) for 6 years. We both wanted one parent home instead of having 2 parents working full time. We didn't want the kids to move to a different school or community and we wanted to keep their standard of living the same. All of this to minimize any damage our divorce would have upon them.

I now have a new job which is 100% commission based, but flexible to allow me to be there to shuttle the kids around to and from school and to their various activities. Yes, I guess I am a certified soccer mom.

This makes sense to me, but I'd like to see if that's the same perspective of others because it seems like their may be another side to it from the OP.

Jsmom's picture

There is no way I would be living in or paying on a house in someone elses name with mine if I wasn't married to them. My credit is too inmportant to me. I am not on DH's house and I kept mine and rent it out, because I didn't want to combine finances too much. Maybe someday, but not now. I never even owned my first house with my husband at that time. He had bad credit and had to waive his Homestead Rights when I bought it without him on the Mortgage. I knew he was going to die someday and didn't want any problems. Made it much easier when he did die.

I would pursue it with the courts to end this mess.

Redsonya's picture

Wkd SM,

Yes, they agreed to the $2,000 of non-guideline support at the time of their divorce and before we met. He told her at the time that he didn't think he could make that type of payment, but would try for the kids and she agreed that she would never go after him for any bit that he could not pay as long as he was trying his best. When I met him, he was literally living like a pauper (but he was so cute and talented!), giving every cent he had to her, living in little apartment, sleeping on an old broken futon and using thrift store furniture so that she could keep everything, and taking on all of the joint credit card debt. He couldn't pay his quarterly taxes. She felt like this was "fair" because she had been a stay at home mom too and now only wanted to work 30 hours a week as a secretary, stopped going to school after her AA, and spent her free time with complete loser men, partying, drinking and smoking (not saying you are doing that at all).

Lo and behold after we got married, she decided "he wasn't trying hard enough" because I had a couple pre paid trips that I took him on with me. She is now threatening to go after him for "everything". A total of four weeks of vacation in more than a year and she was fit to be tied. Of course she works from 9 to 3 everyday and gets up to a month at a time off with the year round school schedule, but thats "fair" because she has the kids.

I have a great job (work about 50 hours a week) and a 2 year old. I promise you that if your FDH gets remarried, your situation will change. Why should I pay all the bills so he can funnel all his money to his ex? I am already stuck with all her old credit card debt and her half of the back taxes since we are married. My DD goes to preschool everyday to make my career possible - why should I finance his ex to stay at home? Divorce is expensive and people's lives change - thats the reality. The state is required to go by the guidelines and that is what your FDH's new wife will expect, I promise you. My recommendation is to use this time before he meets someone to set yourself up so you can support yourself on the guideline amount, if need be.

wkd_sm's picture

Ahhh, hmmm. I guess I never thought of it that way. You know, you get used to being a family unit and when you have kids together you figure that the other parent wants the same for your kids that you do. I am wondering what I should do now. Right now, if we sold the house, we'd net $0. The house is more important to me because it allows my children the stability of staying where they have been for most of their life. I have asked him to allow me to take over payments and refinance under only my name, but he didn't want to do that. He knows that the house will appreciate and eventually we'll have equity again and he's hoping to eventually net a profit. We both have good credit and I am not financially irresponsible, which is why I am so concerned about this now. I have just started a college fund for our oldest ds13 but our budget is so tight, I may not be able to contribute too much if anything changes. Hopefully I can head off any problems before they occur.

I have a flexible job so that I can take care of the kids needs. If I had to go back to work with a regular schedule then I many need childcare and the kids wouldn't be able to keep their after school activities. I would hate for that to happen and I think (or thought) that ex-dh feels the same way. Ex-dh travels a lot for work and he is the type who would move in a heartbeat if he could get a promotion or make more money in a better position so I can't rely on him to pick up the slack. I am remarried with a SD but ex-dh HATES, and I mean HATES, when I need DH to pick up the kids from school or whatever. Ex-dh prefers that I do those things for our biokids and not leave them alone with DH.

I may have to tell him too bad if he wants to cut CS because logically, I can't do everything without help. If the kids have to decrease their lifestyle then, too bad, I guess. I'm not too sure what the payment would be if we recalculated. It was about $500 more than guideline, but I know it goes up as the kids get older and if his income increases. We had agreed that I would not get spousal support in liu of this. I am wondering what I should do now. Any tips?

Redsonya's picture

Hi Wkd_sm,

Everyone wants the best for thier kids, but reality sets in and its apparent that you aren't a family unit with that person anymore. You have a new family unit. We have no say in what goes on in BM's house or how much she works/chooses not to work. Frankly, her choices are affecting the kids, not ours. We have a beautiful home and do lots of fun things with them. They can come live with us anytime. DH has bent over backwards for BM but she needs to start supporting herself (which she couldnt do on her salary).

I'd leave things as is if your XDH isn't complaining. The guideline amount does not go up as the children get older, it actually probably decreases because you won't be awarded any help with daycare. The amount DOES go up with increases in his income and any increases in yours. Run the calculator to prepare yourself and then wait til he meets someone. Once he starts to get a bit serious with someone else, assume that things will change. When they do, don't be angry - again, you wouldn't want to support your new DH's wife so that she could stay home or work very flexible hours and neither will your DH's new spouse.

P.S. If you are remarried, you don't get spousal support. Even if you had been awarded spousal support from the beginning, it would have ended when you remarried.

wkd_sm's picture

Ex-dh is not complaining now, but other than the fact that he hates my current DH, we get along fine where the children are concerned. I try to respect his feelings towards things and for the most part, he does the same.

My current DH does have 2DD, so technically I have 2SDs. One lives with us full-time SD10 and the other lives in another state, SD16. DH has been paying CS for SD16, approx $200/mo over guideline because the cost of living is higher than what we believe is reported for that state. Also, his ex-wife works from home, she does freelance work, actually, so her income is sporadic. When I met DH, I knew this was the case and I let it be. It was their agreement for the benefit of THEIR child and I didn't feel it was right for me to say that their daughter should do with less. If SD16's BM had to work more or get a more traditional type of employment it would definitely affect SD16's quality of life to the negative and that doesn't feel right to me. I knew what DH was paying before I got in, so we just deal with what is left. DH is the type that feels he should take the larger financial support role and I understand that thinking. It's the same for my ex-dh. Btw, THAT BM and I get along fine (it's the other one that's a real witch). LOL

I am considering sharing my concerns about this with ex-dh. I would like to know where the children stand in his priority, taking into consideration another another possible SO for him. You are right, ex-dh and I are no longer in the same family unit, but we cannot discount that what either of us does is tied to the other. We decided that since we were getting divorced, our attitude would be to put our children's best interest first. A lot of times when we disagreed on things, the question to answer was, "would that be the best thing for OUR kids". Here's the thing, neither of us have other children so perhaps that is why we feel that way. We don't have competing interests, yet.

I guess I have to start seeing if things will change. A scary prospect. I have emailed my attorney anyway, and I'm waiting for a reply. I do believe that CS does go up as they get older. The amounts were broken down by child and when I asked why DS#1 was higher, my attorney told me it was because he was older. It costs more to support at 12yo than a 4 yo, he said. Child care costs are calculated separately, so that may be the difference. Our child support order lists the reason for the adjustment of CS as "to maintain the stability and quality of life the children have enjoyed". I'm not sure if a judge will overrule that so I'm waiting for my attorney to email me back.

Redsonya's picture

Well - $200 a month over the guideline isn't that much. If that was all DH was paying, I probably wouldnt have said anything. However, $1100 a month over guideline is ridiculous (turns out that is what he was overpaying after judge's ruling two weeks ago). BM is not getting 60% of his income. That requires me to basically pay most of the bills for a decent house and all extras (vacations, entertainment, clothes, etc). No joke this guy was living like a monk to give that much to BM before he met me.

It would also be different to me if BM was really using her extra free time for the kids - driving them to activities, helping them with their homework, etc. She absolutely does not. The kids totally protect her, but have told us that all she does is drink wine, smoke cigarettes on the deck, and sit on the internet. One of our boys actually started crying when he had to go home early saying that all they would end up doing is watch TV all daywhile she yelled at them. Now that the gravy train is at an end, BM has mysteriously found a position to apply for at her school district that is full time. My DH is not tied to BM. He is tied to his kids and both parents are required to equally provide for thier children.

I don't know what state you live in, but in CA, the guideline calculator is what it is. It does not take age of the children into consideration. The judge is required to go by the guidelines if that is what your DH requests. They are not allowed to take any other considerations into the calculator unless you can show that you have had an extreme hardship (major illness, loss of your house, etc).

wkd_sm's picture

Well, it sounds like we have different circumstances. Ex-dh certainly does not provide 60% of his income, perhaps 40% or a little more, but he can certainly afford it. I do not agree with "equally provide" as it depends on what we are providing. Financially, I do not have the education nor the experience that ex-dh has and if he only contributed what I was able to, the children would not have much of a life. I did spend those 15 years home with the children taking primary responsibility for them so that ex-dh could get that education and work experience and it was OUR mutual choice. Likewise, he would not be able to afford the kind of nanny who would shuttle the kids to their many activities and kept track of all the miniutae of their lives. I'm much cheaper than that! (I know, I calculated)

Ex-dh does stress that he wants someone (myself or him) to be home when the kids get home from school. He prefers that I drive them to school instead of them having to catch the school bus. He wants them in at least 1 extra curricular activity throughout the year. He wants someone to monitor their schoolwork and make sure they don't fall behind. He wants someone to be at all their soccer games (currently) and one of us to be "involved" in the community so that their family and name are "represented". He wants them to attend our church every week, VBS during the summers, and Life camp for my oldest. He wants them to live together, and not be separated (as in split custody), he wants the oldest to not have to share a room with anyone else (ideally he would want them to all have their own rooms but he really can't afford a 7 bedroom house), he wants them to visit with their grandparents paternal and maternal at least once a year (they are both in different states), AND he prefers that my current DH NOT take this primary responsibility. He wants them to eat home-cooked meals and to limit their fast food. He wants one of us to know their friends and their friends families. He also wants them to dress a certain way, and to look a certain way (ex. haircuts at least every 3 weeks, etc) and he wants them to live in a house in a good neighborhood. For the most part, I agree.

Ex-dh does a lot of travel for work so it's laughable that he could "provide" half of this "care". You can imagine the kind of job I can have that allows me to do all this. I do work and make decent income, but it's scheduled around the kids so it's not nearly what I could make if I could devote full time to it.

I am in HI and I did speak to my attorney. I also spoke with my ex-dh and so far we are good. I know all families are different, but we do consider ourselves "family", albeit extended. We are related through our children and we have found that only the two of us feel the way we do about them. I know not all people feel this way and others have different circumstances. Good for you that you are able to work out what is best for your family.

Jsmom's picture

All I hear in your post is what "HE" wants. What do you want. I hate to sound mean, but it sounds like it is all about him and not about you. Doesn't sound like a marriage or partnership, he sounds like a boss.

wkd_sm's picture

Well, we're not married anymore! Yes, he can be quite "bossy" but he is also pretty reasonable so we get along fine. He is my ex-dh but Yes, for the most part I do agree. I usually don't voice those things aloud like he does, but I do want to be able to do those things for them. I think because the children are with me, he is more proactive in communicating his opinion on how they should be raised as he has less actual control. He will call or text things like "have you thought about where you're taking them on break? SD13 mentioned sea creatures as his next paper topic. Do you think you could take them to the falls for camping that week? Also, where are the new jackets you bought them in June. I have only seen them with their old ones. I bumped into Mrs. So and So and she mentioned they could really use another volunteer for SD7's Kidslife group. I know he'd love that, could you? And is SD6 wearing matching socks for his team picture? The left one looked darker blue than the right one." Sigh.
The only part I really disagree with is that he very much *dislikes* when my current DH takes over some of these responsibilities. It's ok for DH to attend their soccer games, but heaven forbid I have to work or do something else and he takes them himself!

Redsonya's picture

I wasn't trying to be mean wkd_sm. It sounds like we have totally different circumstances. If it works for your ex-DH and you, thats great. I was just giving you a heads up that it may change if another woman comes into the picture. Thats all. Sounds like you are an amazing mom and if DH can afford it, it probably won't change. Your kid sound older too so a little extra for a few years isn't a big deal. Hopefully your ex-DH finds a nice person and you can all get along. It can definately happen. That would make all of this easier for everyone.