How to pose the new "balance of power" to the SD?
I will be moving into the house my Fiancee owns this summer. Currently it is just her and SD22 there. SD22 is generally a good kid but super needy, no friends, and a little too entitled for my liking. In short, she doesn't understand that she is the kid and is damn lucky to be living at home for FREE and having school paid for. She talks and acts like the house,and everything in it, and everything outside, like the vehicles and land are as much hers as they are her mothers.
I have been making more comments recently to mom along the lines of "You may think that she 'should know' how good she has it and all you do for her, but if no one has TOLD her that, you need to STATE all the benefits she gets from you and that you expect some respect and help around the house at the very least in return". Or hinting that "Her tantrums and "bitch Fits" are not going to fly when I am living there, no kid, and especially a grown adult that you pay THOUSANDS for school for, should talk to their mom like that".
This girl even takes it upon herself to bitch about the finances, like mom joined a gym and she flipped out that it was a waste of money and "you better not go blowing all OUR money that you are supposed to use on OUR new horse trailer". I feel that the financial issues, unless she is CONTRIBUTING to them, are none of her GD business.
I WANT to basically say "You don't GET an opinion in this house! You want to have an opinion? Then it will cost you $400/mo in rent, $200/mo in horse boarding fees, and another $100/mo for food, THEN you can have an opinion, until then, all you need to say is 'Thanks for the free ride you are giving me mom!'"
So I need ideas on how to explain that when I move in, and we finally get married, that it is OUR house, it is not Mom's house, and DEFF not SD22 and Mom's house. I will be paying all the bills at that point so I will have some say over what happens and how the adults are treated there. I know any change in the current paradigm is going to piss her off.
The catch 22, that I am sure she counts on, is that mom wants, more than anything else, for her to do well and finish school, so we can't really threaten to kick her out, or charge her more rent than she can realistically pay while working a part time job. So There is only so much we can threaten.
As I said, she is "the good kid", and all we really want from her is a little more respect and a modicum of appreciation for the free ride she gets.
So, how would YOU word it if you had to get this ironed out before moving in?
Don't move in until the
Don't move in until the daughter moves out.
My son is a year younger than your SD. He's attends college out of state. My DF hates the idea of me paying for son's education and giving him money during the school year. ( he works during the summer and school breaks).
He thought things would change once we started living together. NOPE
My kid,my money,my choice.
Yep, I agree with the other
Yep, I agree with the other posters. Maybe you should wait to move in. I married my DH and moved into his house. SD23 is in grad school and works part time, but DH still gives her a monthly allowance so to speak and she pays nothing for her own gas and stuff (actually lives with us when she is not living with her BF). He has spent well over 100000.00 cash on her school and has co-signed school loans with her as well and I believe she has yet to say thank you. I have mentioned that we could use the money and that she is working part time and could cover her own expenses. That just made him mad and without saying it I figured out that my opinion on appreciation and responsibility didn't matter even though I know he loves me. I refuse to give her extra money from my account.
This is correct! Don't move
This is correct! Don't move in until SD has moved out. Have FDW sell the house and you buy one together or it will NEVER, EVER be your house. I moved into DH house with his 3 skids and it was NEVER my house and I paid half the bills too. I think the statement was made - you moved in with US by one SD. (Like they were the unit and I just moved in with them).
I thought about that too, but
I thought about that too, but Mom REALLY wants me to move in, and it will be hugely financially beneficial for me as well. Currently I maintain an entire condo near my work that I am only actually AT like 3 nights a week. So we are maintaining two separate households at this point. We have been dating/engaged for almost 3 years and we are down to this one last kid between us (SD19 is out and my S18 is moving out in June) and I just don't think it is fair or reasonable to put our entire lives on hold because this one brat doesn't want to suck it up and act like an adult.
I have tried to avoid any kind of "It's me or your kids" kind of discussion up until now but I know something has to be laid out clearly to the SD22 and mom needs to be onboard so we can present a "united front". Then, if it looks like she is just going to be a shit about it, well then I guess I will have to tell Mom "Sorry, I know I can't live with that and if I tried it would turn into a very stressful mess and hurt our relationship".
If your fiancee has not had a
If your fiancee has not had a problem with all of these issues up to this point, you moving in is not likely to change things one iota.
The kid is 22. Good luck on getting a 22 year old, or her mother for that matter, to change their ways after being like this for so long.
You are going to end up heartily disliked by her, and since her moving out is not an option, she will make your life hell. Not to mention the fights with her mom while she tries to keep the peace.
Just don't move in. Period.
If your determined to move in
If your determined to move in while her adult "child" is living there you don't get any say so, SD rules the roost and mom allows it. If it's to change mom has to do it and she should do it BEFORE you move in and not as you say so you want you expect, but as mom she expects she demands and she enforces the respect she deserves from her adult kid, kid doesn't like it she can get out, mom refuses to implement and follow through and enforce her new standards you're screwed plain and simple your money will become SD's too. It's not like your going into this with a toddler, this is long term "learned" and accepted behavior you try to wear the pants in the family SD will tear you down and make you miserable.
I wouldn't move in regardless of how much she REALLY wants you to move in unless it changed (by her not because of you but because it's right to teach a grown up who should of been taught long ago, their place.) She wants you there so bad she can make the necessary changes. My 2 cents.
Ok, you all make valid
Ok, you all make valid points.
So how do I put it to Mom in a way that she understands? As I said I always tried to avoid making her feel like she has to choose between me or her kids but I guess in reality it kind of has to be some variation of that.
I just don't know if saying "You need to crack down on your D and put her in check or I will not move in" is the right way to word it. We all know how Bio Parents are blind or enabling to their kids worst traits, so how do I tell her to stand up to her own D and let her know I support her without just telling her "Do it or I ain't going to be sharing the same roof with her"?
** and when I say it is financially beneficial, I just mean that right now we are both paying all the utilities for two homes and rent etc, if we lived together we would pay half as much since we would be running one household.
** and the "Long Plan" is to sell her current house once SD22 moves out after she graduates and get our own place but right now I rent a condo and she owns her home so it's easier for me to move in there.
Tell her what you want, and
Tell her what you want, and that it is conditional on you moving in.
HOWEVER, she can agree with every point and once you are in, refuse or be unable to "crack down" on her daughter. Then what will you do?
You coming in with demands on a 22 year old, demands that she KNOWS is coming from you, is not going to be pretty. Then she will get the rest of the family involved, and God help you.
Maybe you should just pay attention to what YOU will or won't do. if she doesn't do her laundry, but you aren't the one having to do it, why do you care if fiancee does it, for instance?
If you have an agreement on what you will pay for, then don't worry about what she gives to SD. Honestly, the more I think about it, her mom does not demand rent from her now, so why should you?
It's not even your house.
You are trying to control something that is uncontrollable, especially with other adults. There are those of us here with small children that can't make this scenario work, much less trying to get adults to do what we think is right.
Stay out of the house, until
Stay out of the house, until she is gone. Honestly a new house at that time would be a good idea as well, because it will always be your SD's home. She will make your life hell....
Wow, project much? I am not
Wow, project much?
I am not trying to "change anyone", it would be nice if one young ADULT, treated her mother, and in this case, the sponsor of her entire livelihood with a little respect right?
I had a lengthy response typed out to counter your assertion that I am some kind of major prick, but I presume it is a waste of time and nothing I say would change your opinion of me. I will instead respectfully agree to disagree, a RESPECT you did not show ME. Have a day...
Wow, you sure are pissed
Wow, you sure are pissed about SOMETHING. Please seek help. For the record, and not that it will matter to YOU, you are WAY off on your judgement of me, if I was what you accuse me of, do you really think I would be on a Internet forum asking for advice on how to create a happy, smoothly functional home together with a minimum of conflict?
I think that SD has had too
I think that SD has had too much say in her mother's affairs, esp financial. She should NOT be calling the shots about what mum spends her money on, and maybe it takes a third person coming in to the relationship to blow some fresh air in and be the catalyst for change to a bit more healthy situation.
Sooner, rather than later, the 22 year old will be moving out, and she needs to get a feel for how things work in the world outside her cossetted little enclave, where she will have to fend for herself, emotionally and financially. She needs to prepare for that - but seems unable to, and mum hasn't exactly helped. Maybe Superdad can.
A marriage or commited
A marriage or commited relationship to anyone commited more to their adult children than to you is destined to fail.
If she will work with you to make a life together including addressing the forced launch of any adult children who refuse to launch whether they are on her side or yours then you very well may have a great relationship.
Any advice that would take exception to either spouse in a marriage requiring adult children be treated as adults is not advice that I would give much credence were I you.
IMHO of course.
I have been fantasizing about
I have been fantasizing about having a place of my own to escape to for a couple years now. Superdad, you already have that. I think you should keep it until SD moves out and is established as an adult elsewhere or you will probably have many regrets.
I agree with those that say,
I agree with those that say, it will never be your house. It would sell her's and start fresh.
I dealt with the same self centered entitled shit your speaking of. And, I refused even though we had a daughter together to marry him or live with him as long as she was there. Once she finally moved out, and we knew she was not returning was the only way I would marry him, we got married. I did move into the home she grew up in. For 1 year, then we bought a house together. I also owned a home, for which I kept until we were in our new home for a year, before I sold it.
Her daughter is never going to get off her self entitlement. Dh's didn't, even after we bought our home. BUT, she knows it is our home and the finace's here are a joint decision. Be prepared for one pissed off Skid.
Honestly, I think you really need to talk to your FW, and express how you feel. We can give you advice all day long. But, she needs to KNOW, no beating around the bush how you feel and why you feel that way. BEFORE the " I Do's " if you love her she deserves to know what you can and can't handle. It sounds to me like you have been rather silent about it, with the exception of mentioning things here and there. You have to understand the dynamic of a single parent and child. She may be ok with things just as they are. Then the question is can you live with that? If not don't move in or get married.
This girl may be 22 but she isn't going anywhere, know that before you move in and marry her mother. Or you may just be dealing with more for worse, instead of better.
Wish you the best. Talk to her BEFORE you move in or marry.
Ok either I am not as self
Ok either I am not as self aware as I thought, or I am not explaining myself very clearly and it is contributing to an incorrect impression.
I am not some big jerk that thinks I am going to move in and make it suddenly "My House Gus!" and force everyone to follow MY rules. I am totally looking at this as a full partnership and want everyone on board and getting along. I really do like these girls, it just sucks that when they aren't getting what they want, or if they are just plain in a bad mood, that they have no "governor" for their behavior or mouth and they just say and do whatever they want to bully their mother.
We are going to go do some couple's counseling and such over the next few months before I move anywhere and hopefully get this sorted out.
I am going to "encourage" SD22 to go to a counselor because she needs to talk to someone besides us.
We just found out the other day that SD19 is still not getting a job, let her insurance lapse but still drives, and is still dating a 38yr old loser, and has the gall to "get irritated" and hang up on her mom when mom asks how the job hunt is going. Funny that she is not irritated enough to stop using the cel phone that mom pays for. I am going to make sure to state that I cannot live in the same house with THIS one for sure, once/if/when I move there won't be ROOM for her anyways.
Ok so move in but keep your
Ok so move in but keep your condo for a while. Can you sublet it for say 3 months at a time? That way if things dont go the way you want you will have somewhere to go. I agree with you Superdad. The kids have absolutely NO say in their parents finances. But....its Mum who's taught her daughter that attitude, and I know cos Im guilty of it myself, and boy do I regret it now. Look at it this way, and maybe you could put it to SD this way too. If when she finishes college, (which Mum is paying for) she moves out and is earning her own money, Mum tells her thats "our" money, and starts dictating to her how she should spend it. Afterall, she paid for college which gave SD the capacity to earn that income, so shouldnt she be entitled to share it, at least until she recoups what she spent on college? Ask SD to go away and mull that over for a while, then ask her to tell you how she would feel and react to that situation. Its all about putting the shoe on the other foot. Most people cannot empathise until they have been in the same situation, or at least think honestly about being in the same situation.
Tell her when you want her
Tell her when you want her opinion you will give it to her. It's way past time for her to move out and be completely on her own.