I would include the other child. She's only 14 and shouldn't be expected to behave rationally and fairly. You need to be the adult and model good behaviour.

I think you're liable to make a larger mess if you don't discuss this with your wife. Spiteful and deliberate alienation is hardly the way to deal with a 14 y.o. (speaking as stepmother to a 15 y.o.).

Tough as it may be to admit, when we were all teenagers, we made messes of the family relationships, too. They might have been on a different scale, but we made messes. I know I did, and I was not a child of divorce and not in a blended family. That's a whole lot of baggage to carry.

You indicate that you haven't seen this child much since a big blow out at your home. It sounds like you really haven't dealt with that issue yet. That'd be my first step. With counseling, without counseling, whatever. Just get a dialogue going. These problems don't repair themselves. It takes involvement by all parties.

I would discuss it with your wife and make a joint decision on whether or not to include SD-14.

No use buying a ticket that she won't use.

As for your dilema regarding being not good enough to live with so you are not good enough to go on holiday with. I understand your frustration. However, 14yo kids do not think on this level. She wants what she wants when she wants it and if she has an option of abiding by the rules in a structured home (your's) or moving to a home where her needs are met but she can do what she wants when she wants (BioDad's)then she is going where she can do what she wants when she wants.

This is why I am firm believer in primary physical custody with visitation going to the NCP. That prevents a child from skipping back and forth to the place that gives them what they want at the moment.

My SS has understood his entire life that he has no choice but live with his mom until he turns 18 whether that is what he wanted or not.

Now ..... he turns 18 in less than two weeks and is in SpermLand on his final court ordered visitation. We will see if he comes home or decides to join the SpermClan full time.

Best regards.

I wouldn't take her. We are in the same situation. We are planning a big trip over Thanksgiving this year and I am not taking a child that doesn't want to live with us. Tough on her. You don't get to have just the good fun stuff. You also have to live with the chores and rules. Don't do it. Her mom will be upset, but, why should you put up with it. Besides, she will make you miserable on the trip.

First, I agree with previous posters that you really need to talk to your wife about this trip you're planning. I know that may ruin the "surprise", but honestly as other posters mentioned before, I think the surprise could get ruined amyway if the issue you posed here is not addressed first, so it is good that you asked for opinions on this BEFORE booking!

Questions:

1) You say the trip is a surprise for Xmas - does this mean the trip is THE actual gift & no one is getting anything else from you for Xmas? If yes, do you normally spend this kind of money on SD as a Xmas gift? If yes, do you typically base Xmas gifts on behavior (i.e. If you don't behave you don't get a gift?) If yes, has SD behaved in a way that makes her deserving of this gift? If no, then there's your answer.

Otherwise, if you just simply don't WANT to PAY for SD to go on this trip as a gift from you then I think you are well within your rights on that, but at least talking to your wife about this first allows her to decide whether or not SHE is willing to pay for her daughter to join the family on this trip as a gift from Mom, OR, if SD WANTS to go, maybe SD's "wealthy" Dad would be willing to pay her way as a gift from Dad? You won't know unless you talk to your wife about this.

Is there a chance that your wife will refuse to go if you haven't asked her 14 year old?

I don't think I could do that to my child in that situation. It seems like burning bridges and giving up on any chance of a reconciliation.

Christmas is still a long way away. What if the relationship between 14 year old and BM improves and you DON'T have a ticket for 14 year old? Flights around that time of year fill up, you may not be able to get another ticket on the same flight at ANY price if you change your mind about bringing her.

We (my H & I & all the kids - bio & step) have NEVER been on a vacation together since we began living like a "family" back in 2005 (5 years!) We both work full-time & make decent incomes, but we manage our finances separately because H would rather spend his money on "toys" & luxuries for himself & weekend fun for his kids rather than save for a vacation. H also "nickles & dimes" his vacations days off work away taking "mental health days" (i.e. sleeping in at home) so that he never even seems to have enough vacation time off work to even spend a full day with his daughter when she visits in summer, let alone take a real vacation. Consequently, when vacation time comes I am usually the only one with money & vacation time to go, & I am NOT about to miss out or make MY kids miss out because H can't get it together, so I take my kids & go without H!

Would I rather H go with us? Heck yes! I also would welcome SD to come too, but I canNOT and frankly am NOT willing to foot the bill for my H or SD to go when I already have to pay for myself and my kids! Now in the past I have simply gone to visit family or went WITH family and always offered for H & his kids to join us (on HIS dime of course!) and H always declined saying he did NOT WANT to go, so it was no big deal - he got a "vacation" at home of sorts when we were gone anyway, especially since SS moved away & if it wasn't an SD weekend! I also did pay once for a ticket for SD and brought her to H when H was living out of town for work and we made a pseudo vacation out of that, but I still paid for some of the activities & i didn't feel that H really appreciated any of it, so I'll never do that again! Finally, I also paid for H to go visit his family as a Xmas present this past year, but it was during school, so H went by himself. However, now that I've booked a REAL vacation all using points from MY travels H is suddenly PISSED about the fact that i am taking my kids and going without H though H has zero vacation time and no money to pay for himself or SD to go! What does he want? I should pay for him & SD to go or not go at all? Why should I & MY children miss out on what I've worked hard & saved for? I don't think so!

If the daughter hardly spends any time with you & your wife, I don't guess I'd go out of my way to invite her on a trip.

Out of curiosity, is there anything in a custody order about her leaving the country without the other parents permission?

I would not invite her and maybe that will be an incentive for her to be nicer to you in the future, so that she can be included in the fun. If she has parental supervision where she is, its not like you are abusing or neglecting her IMO.

Or, you could buy her a ticket now at the cheap rate and decide later whether you will give it to her. But I vote No because I don't believe in rewarding bad behavior either, no matter how old they are! Some people need more time to mature before they get 'big girl' opportunities!

Since your SD14 does not live with you I am assuming wife has some kind of parenting time arrangement. Alternating holidays? Is this holiday season scheduled to be with your W? If so then buy her a ticket as she is entitled to spend the holiday with your wife and this side of her family...if not she will be spending the holiday with her BioD so there is no reason to buy her a ticket.