Making Mountains out of Molehills
So, this happened this weekend:
On Thursday, DH goes to the school open house. He meets some of their teachers and attends a session about 6th grade camp (in a previous post, I shared about how BM wanted to know if DH was contributing to 6th grade camp, but was refusing to provide any information). He texts BM (who was not at the open house) and tells her he'll pay his portion of the camp and then calls his boys to make sure they both want to go (one wets the bed periodically, so DH is a little concerned about his going, but if the child feels ok going, then he can go). During his conversation with his sons, one of them (the one who is closer to BM) says "Dad can you help my friend by giving him a ride to the football game on Saturday?" DH says he can't because he's working and MIL is driving him to the game (picking up this child and giving him a ride would have added 90 minutes to MIL's drive to the game). SS then suggests that maybe he stay home with BM, so he can give his friend a ride to the game. DH says "no, buddy, it's my weekend and I want to see you." SS is a little upset, but he tells DH that he understands.
That same day (Thursday), BM sends DH multiple texts and says "are you giving [friend's name] a ride home from the game or am I?" After repeated texts from her, DH finally says, "I'll take care of it." So BM replies "I'll have [friend's mom] text the address."I ask DH why it has to be him who takes the child home, since DH and SS are the only people who are not going back to SS's town (30 minutes south of us, 50 minutes south of the game site). There are at least 15 other kids on the team and the vast majority of them are probably going back to their town. But, whatever, if DH wants to drive out of his way just to drive a kid home because SS wants him to, that's fine. Annoying that BM made an arrangement to drive a kid home when she didn't plan to drive the kid home and then expects DH to just do it, but whatever, I'm not going to the game, they can do whatever they want.
BM still has not sent the address by Friday afternoon, so DH texts her, "if you're going to the game, you can bring the child home. If you're not going, then I'll give him a ride home."
On Saturday morning, BM starts texting DH at 6:30am about this situation. Her texts go on for FOUR hours, which are mostly texts from her trying to convince DH how important it would be to SS to give his friend a ride home. She tells him how awkward it would be if she had to drive the child home alone. She tells him how bad it will make SS feel if he can't give his friend a ride home. She tells DH it will only take him an extra 45 minutes (more like an extra 75 minutes) to take this child home, so she can't understand why he won't do it. She says she'll take SS with her to drop the kid off, so SS can spend some quality time with his friend, and then drive back to our house to bring SS back to DH for the rest of the weekend. DH says, "look you have two choices - you come to the game and you drive the kid home or you don't come to the game and I'll drive the kid home."
Some back story, whenever DH and BM are at an event together, BM has a tendency to come up and harass DH for money (asking for money outside of CS, demanding her CS check early) or cause other problems for him (like asking him in front of the children if he can bring the kids home five hours early from his weekend because her family is having a last minute party). One of his kids said to DH after one game "why is mom always so mad at you?" This same kid also told DH that he feels like he has to sit with his mother whenever he goes to his brother's games with his dad (the child felt this way even before his mother came up to all of us at one game and said to the child "are you going to sit here for the whole game or are you going to come and spend some time with us, too?"). DH tells her that he doesn't appreciate her putting the kids in the middle by coming up to him at games, so he doesn't go to games on her weekends to "respect her time" and has asked her to do to the same. I don't necessarily agree with his methods (I think his not going to the games is actually feeding into BM's narrative to SSs that their father doesn't care as much as she does and also keeps him from seeing his son's games), but am proud of him for telling her that he doesn't appreciate her causing drama for him or his kids when they are both there and he's willing to sacrifice in order to limit the drama. I'm also proud of him that he set and maintained a boundary with her, which was not happening at all when we met.
When DH tells BM that if she doesn't come to the game, he'll drive the kid home, he makes it clear that he's telling her this because he wants her not to come to the game because he feels like she puts their kids right in the middle of the conflict. BM then replies by telling him "the kids never feel like they're put in the middle. You should ask them and they'll tell you that they never feel like they're put in the middle." Um, ok, maybe they tell her that, but I know for a fact that they feel like they can't do certain things with DH or she'll get mad. I also know that she's told both of them "your dad hates me, he never responds to my text messages" and told at least one of them that DH "caused the divorce", both of which caused a lot drama and conflict at our house. I'm sure throughout that process, the children did not feel as if they were was put in the middle, at all, not at all .
The resolution was that SS arranged a ride home for his friend with someone else on the team. BM came to the game, but left before the end. SS insisted he call BM on DH's phone, to "make sure mom knows that [friend] was getting a ride home with someone else."
So, there are things that jumped out at me throughout all of this: 1) all of this should have been a non-issue or a short conversation, no need for over four hours of texts about this. BM could have told SS that she couldn't commit to giving his friend a ride home because it wasn't her weekend, she could have suggested that SS help his friend find a ride home with someone else; or she could have texted DH before agreeing to give the kid a ride home and say "SS's friend needs a ride home from Saturday's game. SS would like to give him a ride home, but it's your weekend, would you be willing to do that? If so, I'll tell friend's mother and give you her address. If you can't, I'll tell her and SS that we can't give him a ride home this weekend."; 2) any time a parent in a high conflict divorce says "the kids never feel like they're in the middle, just ask them", you know that person is delusional.
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Comments
I think SS needs to ask
I think SS needs to ask directly to the person who will have to "cash the check that he writes"... ie he is not to offer rides to people before he asks the person who will be responsible for that ride. AND... no rides of minors will be given without direct interaction with that child's parents.. so if SS wants DH to give a kid a ride, he asks before he tells kid it can happen and then Dad gets to talk to parents of said child before he agrees. Who knows, they may not be on board with a stranger shuttling their kid around!
Yes to all of this. This SS
Yes to all of this. This SS has a tendency of thinking he is the adult in some situations and he can do what he pleases, but he is 11, so my thinking is that he still needs to ask permission. There was another incident where SS decided he was going to take himself to a school meeting, after BM told him he was to stay home. DH texted him and said he was at the meeting and wanted to know if SS was there. SS then decided he was going to go on his own to the meeting (not to see DH, but to see his friends because DH told him other kids were there) and BM got mad at DH for saying something, not mad at SS for leaving the house. DH didn't tell SS to come down to the meeting, he just wanted to know if SS was there. DH also thought it was his fault and didn't blame SS for taking it upon himself to walk out the door of his house. Not sure where StepDad was when the kid walked out the door on his own. I told DH then and told him again this weekend that his child should not be making adult decisions. When an adult tells him he's staying home, he stays home. When an adult says they can't go out of their way to drive someone home, you don't tell that person that you can give them a ride home. SS is not driving the car, so he doesn't decide where it should go.
SS called DH before BM even got involved and asked DH if he could give the kid a ride home. DH said no he couldn't, so the discussion should have ended there. BM should have said "your father said no, so I guess it's not happening", instead of acting like her child's life would be over if he couldn't give his kid a ride home from the game. Then DH - even though he already said no - was getting all ready to give in because he starts to believe that SS will hold it against him if he doesn't give the other kid a ride home from the game.
I also agree that maybe the other kid's parents wouldn't want DH giving their kid a ride home, because they don't know him. BM indicated she had talked to the other child's mother. Not sure why she couldn't say "well, that's my ex husband's weekend with the kids, so unfortunately, we can't give your kid a ride home next week."
All this drama because parents (and this is both on BM and DH) don't want to be adults and because kids are trying to be adults and those same parents don't tell them that's not ok.
Guessing BM only works this
Guessing BM only works this hard to set up drama, right? Very odd, like there's an angle she's trying to set up for some power trip or "shame" your DH into doing something. Nuts.
I think she does it to set DH
I think she does it to set DH up as the "bad parent" who doesn't care about his kids. She's always trying to "win" at being the parent who cares the most. It sets up all these childish power plays and means the kids get catered to more than they should on both sides.
I also think she's enmeshed with this SS and felt as if somehow his social standing would be affected if he didn't give this other kid a ride home. The tone of her texts was sort of frantic around how important it was for SS to be able to give this kid a ride home. She gave DH all these reasons why he should do it (it would only be 45 minutes out of his way, it would give SS some quality time with his friend during the ride home, etc). Then she kept asking to speak to SS and wanting him to tell her what he wanted to do. SS didn't bring his phone with him this weekend, so she couldn't call him directly. Typically when SS has his phone, BM calls him at least once, sometimes twice a day.
I think she also does it to maintain a connection with DH. I think she likes to try to still control DH and also think (despite the fact that she is remarried and has been since before DH and I met) that she still harbors some feelings for him. Because really, why else would you text someone for four hours straight over something that should be a non-issue.
I HATE it when BM frames a
I HATE it when BM frames a demand as a request, or asks for something in front of the kids so DH is less likely to say no. DH has gotten better about setting boundaries around it, but I really wish every time she does it that I could just tell her no, never going to happen, nope nope nope.
In my case, BM also loves to
In my case, BM also loves to present things as an option for DH after she's already told the kids about it. She loves to send him a text saying "will you take SS to this event on your weekend. He'd really like to go." DH will say "I can't, I've already planned something. Please don't schedule things on my weekend." Only to have SS call him a few days later and say "dad, can I please go to this on your weekend?" Shouldn't someone who is an adult, ask the other adult (i.e. the one in charge of the child) first before talking to the child about it?
Of course, MIL loves to do this, too...to tell SSs about some family thing going on their weekend with their mom and then expect DH to just deal with asking for additional time. He's told his mother not to mention things in front of his children, before he's had a chance to talk to his ex wife about them (or before she's asked his ex wife if the kids can go), but she doesn't care.
"will you take SS to this
"will you take SS to this event on your weekend. He'd really like to go."
His response to this should always, always be "We'll see". No argument, no discussion, just "We'll see"
BM and SS will eventually figure out that it usually means No and they will bitch and complain but they will eventually stop.
Same with the things that MIL plans. If the kids ask if they can go or if MIL asks if they are coming, "We'll see"
I did it with my Biokids. I never made promises about going places or doing things. Sometimes we did go, other times we didn't. However, there was never any drama or fighting.
"...only 45 minutes out of
"...only 45 minutes out of his way..."
Only. 45 minutes is not only. Once you pass 15 only should not be part of the sentence.
Neither BM or SS should be arranging rides for this kid. His mom or he, himself, should be arranging his ride. Although I wonder if this ride was a prearranged payback for a previous ride the mom had given to SS on BM's time.
"BM then replies by telling
"BM then replies by telling him "the kids never feel like they're put in the middle. You should ask them and they'll tell you that they never feel like they're put in the middle."
OMG!
Our BM was this!
DH had an F150 and was planning on giving it to SS(18att) once the lease was up and he was ready to get a new one.
BM didn't want SS to have it (another story for another time). She would tell DH that he didn't want it, just ask him. "If you would only listen to your son, you'd know that he doesn't want your hand me down truck."
Yet when DH point blank asked SS if he wanted the truck the answer was "Of course I want it! Why wouldn't I?"
It wasn't until I sat down with SS and asked what was going on that he came clean.
He said it really upset BM that he wanted the truck and so to make her happy he'd said he didn't want it.
When I told him how this would backfire when he got it, he said he knew it would but he didn't know what to say to BM. The kid HATES conflict.
In the end I was in an accident and totaled the truck, so SS was spared having to be in the middle dealing with two parents that he'd tried to placate.
SS is now 26 and doesn't talk to either parent much. He doesn't want either parent to feel that he's giving the other parent more of his time. He's very close to his GFs family and spends most of his time with them.
It hurts DH but he does understand it.
It's so ridiculous. Of course
It's so ridiculous. Of course the kids feel like they're in the middle. Their parents don't get along and they know that, how could they not feel like they're in the middle.
The sad thing is that she ties one of the kids up in knots trying to convince him that he doesn't really want to do certain things with his dad, when I know he does. We signed the kids up for skiing lessons on our weekends. They both loved them, but we had to schedule around other activities, so our last lesson was pretty late in the season. The kids knew they were going on their final lesson during our next weekend with them, but then flag football comes up. They tell DH they would both rather go skiing than play flag football, but then BM (as the kid who's more immune to her told us) "pressured" them into playing flag football, so one called sort of teary and told his dad that he really wanted to play football. DH said that was fine, he'd take his brother skiing and the other one could stay with BM and play football. BM tells DH that that SS "never liked skiing he just didn't know how to tell you." Meanwhile, both kids have been asking us all summer when we're going skiing again.
Of course, in her world, she is not always forcing them to choose sides, so it only makes sense to her that they don't feel that way.
Yep, yep, yep! I don't think
Yep, yep, yep!
I don't think she honestly sees that the skids, SS in particular, only agree with her to make her happy.
She is a good mother and she definitely loves her kids but they don't have free will when it comes to her. If they do something against her wishes, she is mean, doesn't speak to them, tries to guilt them into doing what she wants.
SS(26) spent the last 2 Christmases with his GF family. The first year, he didn't tell his Mom till Dec 23 that he wasn't coming to our town till Dec 26th. He told us at the beginning of the month.
She was completely silent and hung up on him, then wouldn't answer his calls when he tried to call her back.
When he finally talked to her, she said she was so mad at him that she couldn't talk to him and she wasn't sure when she would be able to.
She got over it by the 26th but even then she pointedly ignored him and then asked how it felt.
Gee, I wonder why he stayed with the GFs family last year too?
We spend Xmas eve with DHs family, it's a Polish thing. DH, BM and the skids spent every Xmas eve with them, then just DH and the skids, then DH, me, my kids and the skids. They welcomed us and loved us from the beginning.
This year, BM was in town (she lives in resort town) and staying with SD(27). She'd been with SD all day and they would be spending the next 3 days together.
BM phoned SD as we were sitting down to dinner. Her car won't start and she needs SD to pick her up and take her to her parents house. Are you Freaking Kidding Me?!? Call a cab, call Uber, stay home and wait till SD gets back home at 11pm!
Nope, you are going to have to prove that you love me more and leave DH and his whole family right now!
SD goes running off to Mommy because if she didn't BM wouldn't have spoken to her on Christmas morning.
All in all it just makes me sad for DH. He never asks the skids to prove they love him.
"BM then replies by telling
"BM then replies by telling him "the kids never feel like they're put in the middle. You should ask them and they'll tell you that they never feel like they're put in the middle." I'm no genius but doesn't this exact statement put them in the middle of something (if DH actually asks them) of something they shouldn't be in the middle of?!?! LOL!
You would think, wouldn't
You would think, wouldn't you?
I'm sure asking them "do you ever feel like your mom and I put you in the middle of our conflict?" would not totally put them on the spot, either. I know they don't feel comfortable telling their mother the truth and even though DH is not as out to "win" as BM is, I highly doubt that his kids would feel comfortable telling him the truth, either.
The very fact that she has asked them what they think about her conflicts with DH (as implied by her statement), provides proof that she has put them square in the middle of everything.
Exactly! That is not in the
Exactly! That is not in the best interest of the children. They should not be involved at all and putting them on the spot like that is wrong. Of course they aren't going to tell the truth they are going to say what she wants to hear to appease her. My SD is a people pleaser so she will say whatever she thinks the person wants to hear - not what she actually thinks/feels. We wouldn't put her on the spot like that but I'm sure her mom would.
And I just discovered why the
And I just discovered why the ride home was sooooo important to BM. BM is trying to build her friendship with this child's mother. Since BM is a teenager herself, I'm sure she thought this mom would think she was "uncool" if she was unable to give the child a ride home.