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Groundhog Day

Admin's picture

I thought I'd take a moment to address the rumor mill, and remind users that your continued interaction with this site conveys your acceptance of our terms and conditions of use (TOU). If you neglected to pay attention to them while signing up or otherwise missed them, feel free to become re-acquainted with them here: https://www.steptalk.org/terms . The terms of use are there to define the boundaries users are expected to stay within when they interact with this site and its users. When it comes down to it, we expect our users to behave in a decent manner or to not interact at all.

This topic seems to come up every year or two, and we end up doing and saying the same thing. We understand that the current site lacks good moderation controls and honestly we do not have the resources to address every incident on the site because of this. We are hoping that with the launch of the new site, and the implementation of new moderation and privacy controls shortly afterwards, this task will be easier and will eventually allow users to self-moderate.

So now to the facts. Today Dawn spent most of the day reviewing the long list of complaints we receive via email, PM, and the flag system. In every case, she reviewed the evidence that was presented, and made a simple decision. If the evidence showed that a user was harassing, berating, threatening, libelous, obscene, or in any other way bullying toward a user (or otherwise violating the TOU), they were added to a block list. We never take blocking users lightly and have historically given most users leniency when enforcing these terms, but at some point they must be enforced in order to maintain order on the site and ensure that the site remains a place where everyday people can come to get support for their situations.

If a user was blocked, it was because they in some way violated our TOU, typically on multiple occasions. It's as simple as that. In general users get at least one warning, but depending on the infraction a user may not get a warning at all.

Users do *not* get blocked because we disagree with their views, or they had the most flags against them (although multiple flags or other notices does tend to get you looked at first). We do *not* block users simply because another user has requested it. We do *not* take into account the length of time a user has contributed to this site; this isn't a balancing game. Its unfortunate that we have to block users who have a history of providing good advice to our users, but being a regular contributor to this site does not constitute a right to behave outside the TOU.

The list of abusive users is extremely long and we have not yet reviewed it in it's entirety. We are aware that not all users who have abused the ST TOU have been blocked, yet. Feel free to continue to report those individuals by providing links to *evidence* of the actual abuse. Note, however, that deliberate and blatant mis-reporting of users will get you blocked so make sure your report is sincere.

It comes down to this. StepTalk is a place that people come to vent about their *unique* situation. Often they don't provide all the details, or change the details for privacy reasons, or reasons only they understand. Sometimes they want support. Sometimes they want feedback. Sometimes they want a reality check. What they don't want and should not expect is to be attacked, for any reason. If a user does not agree with another user, does not believe a blog or forum post to be sincere or truthful, or in any other way feels that they can not provide constructive support or feedback, then that user is expected to move on and not interact with that other user.

This does *not* mean that you can't disagree with someone. This does *not* mean you can't tell someone you don't agree with them. This has everything to do with *how* you communicate your feedback. It is always possible to provide constructive feedback to someone you don't agree with even if you are telling them you don't agree with them or that you have a completely orthogonal view of their situation. Surely you can do this without using derogatory or hateful statements. If you feel that you can't, walk away.

I'm going to leave this open for comments in case anyone wants to continue this discussion. I can't promise quick replies because I have a day job and I'm busy building our new site, but I will attempt to respond as I can.

-Admin

Comments

MollyBrown's picture

Sue gave me real advice that caused me to turn my life around. I am sure I am not alone.

notsurehowtodeal's picture

"We do *not* take into account the length of time a user has contributed to this site; this isn't a balancing game." Why isn't it a balancing game? This is what bothers me. If I'm understanding this correctly, a long-time, helpful user can be banned for violating the TOU one time. Everyone can have a bad day and violate the TOU.

If you would consider granting leniency to some on the list, I know I am not the only one who would be grateful.

Gunner's picture

Why shouldn't it be a balancing act? There was a long term poster who was down right nasty to me referring to my genitals multiple times. I came here for advice not to be attacked. After my last post I left this site with no intention of coming back but i needed a date and came here to look through my blogs. Seeing some of the people banned makes me feel more comfortable to post again. That's why. They chase off people who need advice.

ldvilen's picture

I agree, Gunner, that was totally unacceptable. I do think sometimes (certainly not all the time or even close to most of the time) men on this site can be more-so unfairly targeted.

bearcub25's picture

They were absolutely cruel to you Gunner. A few of them attacked new posters until the new poster took up for themselves, or just left feeling like they were the evil SM. They were just too comfortable in their own perceived 'power' and felt they were untouchable bc they spent their every breathing moment on this site.
A few on that list (StepAside, Seue), while they can be very blunt, actually knew what they were talking about and gave good advice, it just stung a little when first reading.

While I don't post much, I have been a member for many years and through the mess of being a full time SM. This was the absolute best forum 6-8 years ago and it is sad what it turned into.

JustAgirl42's picture

Actually, one of the reasons I stopped blogging was because sueU2 would always harass me and I didn't want to deal with her anymore. Never had a problem with any of the others...

agitated's picture

I am another user who deleted my account a few months ago and just recently signed back up (last week) in hopes of being able to ask simple questions again. I have a very ODD story, that is hard to believe, but I could provide the proof (court papers/transcripts/etc.) if needed, but that wouldn't keep me anonymous anymore, nor should I have to do that. I stopped blogging about "those" issues and would only post when I really needed an outsiders advice, but was STILL beat down.

I was (and still am) afraid to ask ANYTHING. There are a few people who give good advice, but constantly being told, "Why are you doing that it's his problem; it sounds like you are obsessed stop "stalking"; it's not your problem; he is lazy and you should leave him; you aren't passing my "smell" test; etc. This is NOT constructive criticism IMO. A person tends to get frustrated. The way I choose to interact and my involvement with my bio kids and skid are my business. If I'm asking what I should do in an XYZ situation, I shouldn't be made to feel like I'm doing something wrong for being involved. To offer disengagement as a solution, great; to politely say maybe you are caring too much, let dad handle it, great. I have come here for advice and an outlet, not to be berated about my situation. I have posted before about my skid doing XYZ, and been torn to pieces about something entirely off topic to my question. This is how most of my posts were replied to.

AshMar654's picture

I have a question. I know some people that you have blocked have been really mean and I do believe love to tear others down to make themselves feel better. This is just my opinion, some of those you blocked may have not been the nicest but some you did were truly helpful. For example RosaluOsliar she was tough and very direct with me but I never thought her comments to be hurtful and extremely negative. I did like her advice a lot.

I am curious those you have blocked is there anyway they can be allowed back but the warned that if they continue their bad behavior will be permanently blocked from this site? Maybe a warning will do wonders for these people and maybe it will not but some that you did block I really appreciated what they had to say.

fairyo's picture

This makes me sad- I received invaluable advice from some of these Steppers especially Echo and GrannyGoose. I hope they come back in another guise. Posts on social media can often be misinterpreted and although people shouldn't feel uncomfortable, it does sell itself as a venting site. People say things they shouldn't when they vent- which is the point isn't it?
Are we saying that any post is ok- but the responses are not?
We are all grown-ups- I feel I could deal with anything thrown at me- a few negative or even personal comments are not going to put me off, but the harsh truth told with wit and experience has certainly helped me in a way no other site has.
I hope things get back to 'normal' soon.

Willow2010's picture

I don’t know if all of them have been blocked but I do see the reason why some of them would be blocked. Some had good advice and helped but IMHO, they ran off WAY more posters than they helped. Some of the vitriol and hatefulness in their “helpful” post were uncalled for. There is no reason to make someone feel small and stupid when trying to help them.

Now a few of the names on the list, I cannot for the life of me figure out why they would have been banded.

Hopefully the new site will have a function that a user can block certain people from posting on their blogs. That would stop a lot of the nastiness.

ldvilen's picture

I know one thing that bothered me more than vitriol language was when there be over 10 comments going back and forth about something completely OT and inane, such as "I drank tequila today," "Oh, really, what kind?," "It was banana flavored," "I'm getting out my whiskey shots," "Me too. Let's toast together." Something like that. Sometimes the string would be over 20+ long, which to me is a total killer. The entire OP and any comments following, are in the tank after that. No one is going to want to weed though that nonsense, and in some cases, they were excellent OPs and had good comments, and then some utterly ridiculous banter ruins it all. Hopefully, that was looked at too.

Tuff Noogies's picture

"When it comes down to it, we expect our users to behave in a decent manner or to not interact at all." i do agree with this. i don't agree with flat-out banning, hopefully the potential blocking feature on the long-in-coming site will reduce some of the bad feelings between some posters. i'll keep the rest of my opinions to myself on that matter.

if anyone banned is still reading - miss ya'll.

Willow2010's picture

Oh I would almost guarantee they are reading and will be back under a new name within days. (if not today) Lol.

A few of those up there were on their 2nd or 3rd name anyway.

DaizyDuke's picture

A good majority will be back with new user names. It's the cycle of stalk.

I'll be honest, I know that sometimes I can be a bit direct? blunt? and definitely quite sarcastic, but there is a difference in being direct and being a downright jerk. I'm actually surprised SueU2 got booted as I have NEVER witnessed her being rude, name calling, fighting etc. but I guess it could have happened. Impossible for any one of us, to see every single comment that has ever been made.

There are a couple however, who I'm glad are gone. they said some pretty awful things to me in a stupid O/T political post because I dared say I voted for Donald Trump. And I do mean awful things. I RARELY flag or report anyone, but that day I do remember reporting a particular poster. But that was at least 6 months ago and nothing was done until now. Like Gimlet said, it tends to make flagging and reporting less meaningful.

Oh well, I understand the admins here do have busy lives like the rest of us and don't have time to be babysitting grown ass adults 24/7. If people would just follow the rules and be decent human beings, we wouldn't have to go through these cycles.

ESMOD's picture

Ya know, it occurred to me that we have a pretty big double standard going on here.

This site is founded as a venting/advice site about being a step parent. So, it's ok for people to come on here and call the BM's, SK's etc.. trash, ho's, monsters, cretins, pond scum etc. Bash away at people who are not necessarily members of this site. Hate on...

BUT, if someone calls out a poster on a bad attitude or poor actions, then that person is somehow in violation. TBH, while I am a SM, I see a few posters on here that seem completely tone deaf to their part in the problems they seem to have. They see everyone else as the problem when it's clear that they have created a lot of it and that their denial hurts them.

Then there are people that seem to have no empathy for anyone other than themselves and others who are pot kettle black situations when they claim others are trying to control things when in fact they are doing the ever loving same dang thing.

It's also tough because online you don't see facial expressions. You don't have all the facts and back story. Certainly I have said things that on paper might have come across harsher to someone than I intended. I certainly wouldn't want to be cruel, but I see some awfully cruel attitudes from people towards their skids that in truth might not be 100% well directed.

In any case, it is a double standard of sorts when the tone is set with the bashing of people off-site.. for on site posts to have some too.

Disneyfan's picture

ESMOD, I pointed this out on a blog the other day.The poster's SO is the male version of the MOTY types that are posted about and bashed here day in and day out. No one bats an eye at that.

But the pearl clutching begins when the same types of comments are directed at the SOs

Wifeypoo's picture

I struggle myself with being a very sensitive person and my feelings are deeply hurt easily, perhaps even more than the average person. In a nutshell I know my over sensitivity originates from my childhood and is deeply ingrained. Not a excuse, just how it is. No amount of counseling has ever helped much but surprisingly, being on steptalk, has helped a lot. I don't post a lot but there's been a few times I've been told something that may have stung at the moment, but after some introspection, I come around and see what I may not have been able to see on my own. Now if someone was calling me names I'd probably just leave and not come back, so I do feel bad when that happens to someone else. I know it's just a internet forum but it's a very special one, she and I really appreciate its existence.

I missed the whole thing yesterday so I don't know what was said, but it appears it was the straw that broke the camels back for admin to take the measures of banning users. I have to respect their decision but it's still unsettling. Certain posters just grew on me after awhile.

Perhaps for the long time members hearing the same story over and over got a little old, and they lost their patience, which may explain some of the negative attitude toward certain posters. Sometimes there were insults thrown around unnecessarily and I've often cringed during those times and hoped the OP wouldnt be too hurt. I admire the ones who keep coming back in spite of the harsher comments.

I'm not sure what actually went down but I just hate to think that it may have been a troll post looking to ruffle feathers that started this whole thing.

NoWireCoatHangarsEVER's picture

Most of my fav people .... gone. Sob. At least Acra, Babybugged, and Gimlet are still here

moeilijk's picture

I think there's a huge piece of the pie that's not being addressed here.

We self-moderate. It's not always popular, but everyone who has received a comment that they felt was inappropriate or which crossed a line had the option to delete it. If it was offensive, screenshot and PM admin.

But all these banter-chains (which, for some reason, I am *never* invited to...) could be deleted if the OP had a beef with it.

All of the comments that are just re-hashing, "Your SO sucks!" could be deleted.

Some posters like the drama of it all, and to them I say, "To each his own." But for the rest of us, if you don't like how someone manages their blogs, scroll on by.

Admin is not around much, and even if they were, I still think they should be dealing with crazy out of line situations, not banter gone too far, or a line in the sand that was drawn too deeply. And I personally have read most comments by most of the banned posters over the last seven years. Absolutely some comments were not useful, kind, or even ok. But that's life. Only a very very few people have been absolutely horrid, and they clutter up and derail blog whenever they get on STalk. Nothing like the numbers that have disappeared.

And for each individual poster, take some responsibility. If you don't like the way something is going, manage it. That's a life lesson as well, btw.

Disneyfan's picture

Oh please

Words from strangers on a message boards do not hurt me. My opinion changes when it involves people in my inner circle.

I don't understsnd how some people manage to cope in real life if they are hurt by comments strangers make.

Disneyfan's picture

I draw the line at race. Trying made a comment about my students a couple of weeks ago and that pissed me off.

Other than that, I am not offended by comments directed at me by strangers on a message board

I never called anyone here pathetic

WalkOnBy's picture

I get called a b*tch all the time. Sometimes it's true, which I am totally fine with, and other times it's not. I don't care. At all.

I don't find it verbally abusive if some random stranger who doesn't know me doesn't share my opinion and then calls me a bitch. Nope. Not even a little bit.

Life is hard. Sometimes a helmet is necessary.

*shrugs*

BSgoinon's picture

Ok, I must have missed something... seriously? That really sucks. That list, those ladies, have given some of the best advice this site has ever seen. And I have been her a LONG time.

WalkOnBy's picture

yet another purge, BS. Some for what could be good reason, others with no reason at all.

AlreadyGone's picture

I think it's entirely possible that some posters, (and I'm not calling out ANYONE specifically when I say this) have just been here, either too long or too frequently. Maybe they're having a bad day or a serious situation at home.... whatever. Maybe they're burned out. Maybe they've read so much about so many people's situations, that they've lost the ability to see things with objectivity. Maybe they're giving advice based on something they've been through but, it's just a slight version of what's actually being presented. Who knows for sure.

I never did like the gang up style that I saw here at times. I never understood the 'we are right and you are wrong, end of story' scenarios that cropped up from time to time. The straight up disrespect based on opinion alone, always bothered me. As did the vulgar name calling, when it occurred. Calling out posters based on bad grammar or punctuation, and then watching the pile on, was difficult. Calling new posters trolls, even if they really weren't (yes, I'm aware that some were, lol.)

Having said all of the above, I'm pretty sure that most of us, are guilty of committing one (or more) of these things. Unfortunately, some, seemed to make it their mission statement. I think that's when it becomes a problem for everyone. It prevents the site from being what it was always meant to be.... supportive.

JMHO.

WalkOnBy's picture

sometimes being supportive is NOT telling someone what they want to hear, though.

Willow2010's picture

sometimes being supportive is NOT telling someone what they want to hear, though
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

But I honestly do not think that is what some of these women are talking about. They are talking about someone derailing their post and trying to make them feel stupid and small and ignorant.

And yes…it is a forum so they may need to expect that from some posters. But those same posters that treat other people like scum on the bottomed of their shoe should also expect to get blocked by admin. They have all been warned and know it can happen.

WalkOnBy's picture

actually, most of those banned yesterday did not get any warning.

Someone derailing a post is not what I was talking about...

AlreadyGone's picture

I understand what you're saying. Think of it like this for a moment....

New SM or SF. Your beautiful step-illusion is blowing up in your face. Maybe you're on the lonely end of a losing situation. You find a place (ST) where you can try to make sense out of things, only to be insulted, talked down to, blamed, etc... That was/is a fact for some posters. Many on a continual basis. I keep hearing that posters should just delete posts they find offensive. Maybe the better approach should be that replying posters don't weigh in, unless they have something meaningful to contribute. Or, how about being a member who is belittled and/or attacked, for your personal, political, or other beliefs, etc.? Not cool.

I'm sorry, I don't want to make someone who is struggling, feel worse than they already do. To me, that's just heaping up damage upon damage. Not fair.

Sad to say that some people use the anonymity of online sites to be cruel, disrespectful, disparaging, disruptive, etc. We've all seen it. We figure someone is having a bad day, whatever. Still doesn't make it right.

That's just my POV. I do understand yours as well. Smile

moeilijk's picture

It's a microcosm for society here. Online, it's always more exposed. There are lovely people here, kind and caring and trying to help. There are unpleasant people who sprinkle offense and personal jibes around like a garden hose.

Of course people should delete posts they find offensive. Why should I 'keep' something that hurts or angers me?

And of course people should not make offensive posts. But I can't control what others do.

Just as in real life, in our online 'relationships' intent counts for a lot. But with just the written word, without robust objective information about a situation, I think a lot of communication turns into ships in the night.

Tone of voice, facial expression, backstory, personal qualities and character, goals, values.... I don't get much of that from a comment or post. And we never know the intentions of the poster - are they trying to cause trouble, are they dumping their negative experience of life on the world at large, have they chosen the wrong word by mistake, are they not ready to hear contrary advice or information, are they nasty people or ordinary people in a bad situation and not rising to the occasion, are they momentarily very upset or is this how they go through life?

All I can do is be myself. Sometimes that's annoying, I know (gasp). But I really have to rely on other people taking responsibility for themselves to let me know if they have a problem with me, and if we care enough to move forward together, we can talk about why and what we can do to make it better.

Willow2010's picture

I don't know why this time would be any different than any other time a mass ban has happened.

I have been here a long long time. (Like you) I know of at least 4 people on the list that have been banned before TWICE. One other has been banned once before. That is just the ones I know of. I guess that is why I am not as upset as a lot of yall. I figure they will all be back soon.

WalkOnBy's picture

it's different this time...in the past, folks were banned for (mostly) solid reasons. yesterday, not so much.

Willow2010's picture

in the past, folks were banned for (mostly) solid reasons
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

I remember that differently. But I am shutting up. I don't wanna get banned. LOL.

WalkOnBy's picture

I said "mostly."

Blum 3 Blum 3 Blum 3

notasm3's picture

A couple of people on the banned list were totally obnoxious and told me (by name that I was a horrible worthless person (mostly because I did not have children) on multiple occasions. I never flagged them as I figured out that anyone with a sane mind knew that they were total aholes.

I just ignored them. I refuse to get in "pissing contests" with stupid aholes. I generally avoided getting in internet arguments with people on any level. I know who I am and what my intellectual assets are - not going to argue with idiots. I love the phrase “Never wrestle with pigs. You both get dirty and the pig likes it.”

moeilijk's picture

I do too. I wish I knew you when I was growing up. And so I'm glad to get the chance to 'watch' you in action now. I like how you set and enforce clear boundaries, that you're very kind and caring but you guard your heart carefully, and how you worked hard in life to reach your goals.

FieryEscape's picture

Some of those kicked do not surprise me one itty bitty little bit. The " mean girl " herd mentally had gotten thick as of late. I've been on this board for about 5 years ( I deleted accounts by choice to avoid too much being out there about my life ) now and seen plenty of catty behavior and mass purges.

You don't have to be a nasty B when you don't agree with someone and you can give your side/ point of view / wisdom without tearing someone apart. No one needs to be told their DH / life sucks and be called names by some pretentious know it all on the internet.
This board has helped me get through a failed blended marriage and then understand and grow into my new blended situation.

I hope those kicked take a long hard look at their behavior and how they treated others and understand why it was taken negatively.

Indigo's picture

Thank you, Dawn & the Admin Powers-That-Be.

There are a number of folk that are now not here that I will miss. Wish that perhaps I had better social skills so that I could ask for emails IRL so that we could stay in touch. (Blows anonymity to hell) I hate the sense of loss. Some of these folks have shaped my life for the better & I can no longer say "thanks" to them.

However, ... nonsense was escalating here to the point that I'd scan a post in the morning w/a thought to reply & when I returned at night the OP was already effectively eviscerated. Why bother sharing my thoughts after all?

Hijacking a thread "in fun" because you need a 'humor/friend-bonding break,' or you do not believe an OP, or they don't listen to you so they must be stupid/troll/other poster, or your job stinks -- is just horrid.

Diminishing.

(Yes, I failed out of Grammar Police Boot Camp).

So, hopefully, things can become a bit more even-keeled for a bit.

FYI IRL: [email protected]

Willow2010's picture

SeMOD...Several of those banned have been banned before for the same actions they got banned for this time. A few of them multiple times. These are smart women. They always know there is a chance.

TwelveLongYrs79's picture

I have not been involved as much as some of you, but have tried to lurky-loo, and follow most of your stories, including the now "Voldemort's" of STalk.
Some of those who have been banned, I have found refreshing and honest. Advice given sometimes needed to be said the way it was said. And I am very saddened by it, their advice sometimes was invaluable.
A select few...I have found liked to pick on the newbies or instantly scream "Troll/CREW" because the story wasn't plausible enough for their liking.

"It's not what you say, it's HOW you say it."
I have no issue with any actual advice given, but insulting someone outright from the gate is not the way to offer advise or even constructive criticism. Would you have a face to face conversation with someone, and if they called you or your SO a moron/idiot/stupid fool right to your face the very first time you met them? Would you even tolerate any further opinions from that person? Doubt it.