Good grief — is the school problem starting again?
It was a fairly quiet summer and start to the school year. SS13 is in his final year of middle school. And now it appears an old problem may be back.
Teo years ago around this time, SS started missing a lot of school for being sick. He'd either get sent home by the nurse or BM would keep him home. Vomiting. Occasional fever. Oddly, it never happened on weekends or holidays. And, after a couple of times at our house where we caught on this was not a real illness and did things like take all electronics and make him go to bed right after dinner (bland food for him -- can't upset the stomach), it stopped happening at our house.
There was no bullying. No social problems. He didn't want to go. And he felt like the advanced classes were too hard. Of course they were. He was staying home a lot and BM wasn't making him keep up, leaving that for DH to deal with when SS returned. He was falling behind and overwhelmed. They ended up letting him drop all his advanced classes and do regular. (I didn't think this was a good idea, as the regular classes are too easy and he's more than capable of handling advanced if he puts in effort.)
Last year was fine. This year, they bumped him up to one advanced class. And the first nine weeks isn't over yet and he's already been "sick" three times. BM questions nothing. Believes every word. Doesn't expect him to keep up with class work. Still takes him out to eat and do fun stuff.
This teaches him what, exactly? That when something is hard you can just avoid it? That you can always get what you want with no (or few) consequences? Yeah, grades don't go on a permanent record now, but you think next year good work and study habits will magically start?
Whatever. I don't particularly care at this point. At least DH is on the same page with me -- SS will NOT live here after he's grown.
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my thought
I realize he can do the work of the advanced group. But, if being in the group is causing him problems (real or imaginary), if he asks, I'd let him drop down. While there are advantages to the higher group, in the long run, I doubt it will matter. There may be some that for whom staying in the group is advantageous, but for most it does not make a difference.
I say this as the parent of a middle schooler who did not care about grades. I'd get - Mom, what does it matter if you get a C or an A. Either way you go to the next grade. Finally mid grade 10, it became important. He decided what he wanted to do after high school. He knew he needed good grades to get into that program in college. Suddenly, he was studying. He got into the program, finished, and is successful today.
My opinion - Parents can encourage, but motivation has to be intrinsic.
Fair point. And you're right.
Fair point. And you're right. Parents can't force motivation. And they did let him drop down. But I don't really think they should reward lying, laziness and irresponsibility either. Lying has been a regular thing with him since I've known him. Manipulative behavior to get his way as well. DH tries to hold firm, but BM gives in every time. Result is there's no change in behavior and Ss prefers her house more than ever.
Anyway, on the advanced classes, there's a marked difference in the teachers, students, behavior and performance in advanced versus regular at the high school he'll attend next year. His mom wants him to move up to advanced in high school. I think it's short-sighted because he'll be behind the other kids from the start and with no clue how to study or apply himself. She's setting him up to fail.
Reality
I agree that not being in the advanced classes this year does not set him up for advanced classes next. But, that decision was made two years ago when they removed him from the advanced classes. He's not set up well for this year's advanced class. Expecting advanced clssses in high school is unrealistic at this point. BM needs to face reality. Whatever the reason, and it may not be academic, this kid is resistant to advanced classes. So much so that his lack of attendance is going to cause difficulty in regular classes.
There is nothing inherently wrong with regular classes. The majority of kids in these classes are going to lead successful lives. Unless you live in Lake Wobegone, not everyone is above average.
I agree. Nothing wrong at all
I agree. Nothing wrong at all. It's more the manipulation I have an issue with. And the fact that he's not even trying. (Which is obvious from the work he turns in.) If you put in effort and it just doesn't come together, I'll be happy and proud of the effort.
He has very high test scores. And I've been around him since age 5. I'm not his biggest fan, but he's definitely smart, especially in math.
Oh, I think parents who are dedicated can motivate a lazy kid.
Escalating abject misery is a great motivator.
We were fortunate that SS responded to being held accountable and facing misery of untold levels if he failed to step up.
At 32yo he periodically thanks us for holding him accountable. It was not fun for any of us when it was happening. However, , we knew that tolerating the then status quo was not raising a smart but under-performing kid to viable adulthood.
Tender tolerant coddling, is a recipe for parental failure IMHO. At some point the parenting goal has to shift to the end result and not delivering smiles, happy, or comfort for that kid.
The kid needs clarity that happy is up to them and has to include performance.
IMHO of course.
That your DS was self aware enough to kick himself in the butt and make his future happen is incredibly outstanding. You and he should be exceptionally proud of his effort and result.
I think it's time to take an
I think it's time to take an honest inventory. Is he truly "gifted?" I know every parent likes to think their kid is special, but deep down they know what their kid's abilities are. How are his test scores? Does he have the desire and aptitude to go into, say, engineering or medicine or some other highly competitive academic field? If so, he needs to be in the advanced classes and apply himself.
If he's (gasp) average or a slightly slower learner, which btw a lot of people are, he should probably be in the regular classes and thinking about future careers that he is suited for. But what he absolutely should not be allowed to do is slack off or miss school unless he's truly incapacitated.
I've seen with my SO's daughters that having unrealistic expectations that don't align with a kid's abilities or desires can be harmful. My SO was adamant that SD27 would be a doctor and SD25 would be an engineer. Nevermind that SD25 could barely pass basic algebra and SD27 never studied or did her homework until the absolute last second. Neither of them has any real education and both struggle to buy rent and food. Both of them could have got some type of training and be doing a lot better than they are. I suggested ultrasound technician for the younger but no go. There is a program in our area that would have taken her previous college credits and had her making a solid middle class income by now. But she kept saying "I'm going to own multiple multinational engineering firms!" and now i think she may be homeless.
Anyhow, the point of all that was that he should be pushed to work to the best of HIS ability. Talking a big game but allowing him to slack is a bad combo.
Absolutely this^^^^^
But what he absolutely should not be allowed to do is slack off or miss school .....
I am baffled by the seemingly default toleration for kids to under perform. Sure, not every kid is a star performer, but tolerating anything less than their top possible performance is parental failure. Period. Dot.
Anyhow, the point of all that was that he should be pushed to work to the best of HIS ability. Talking a big game but allowing him to slack is a bad combo.
Unfortunately the failed parents who talk a big game for their kids while their kids are talking a big game not backed by effort and performance deliver delusion based failure often for themselves and for their kids.
My ILs and their kids are poster examples of just this. Unsupported superiority complexes that evolve in their kids to increasingly lippy pompous assholishness. Decent or even very good grades, though disdain for the truly high performers in their class, delusion of grandeur, then.... crash and burn when faced with actually having to do the notable work required for whatever dreams they claim in HS before they actually earn those dreams. Then.... evolving lives of drama, serial failures, etc.... Sadly much like their parents.
Though it may be surprising, this breaks my heart. Apparent capability that collapses when it runs into the first challenge of reality. First.... grandiosity, then superior over sale of a far lower new dream.... then abandonment of even that. Then, the smirking disdain for the truly successful as spoiled, lucky, snooty, it was given to them, etc....
One of the common sneering judgmental comments that regularly surfaces is "He/She/They don't need that!" This from the most highly developed instant gratification gene pools there is. The difference... they can't afford it. Their version is spending way too much on junk and crap because they gotta have not now Vs, someone who can afford quality or luxury buying it intelligently after fully assessing the purchase.
Multi-generationally they have done it with property, farm equipment, vehicles, animals, etc...... Always they gotta have it now, no one has raised this breed of pig here we will make a fortune, I wanna horse, etc... without any assessment of why someone is selling the rusty POS piece of farm equipment (with a spare rusty POS of exactly the same model for parts), why they are getting rid of the horse for a pittance (It is unridable and attacks people), or why that breed of pig is not raised in that part of the country (They die earl and eat their piglets far more often than not... but they are sooooo cool looking), or why that farm has been for sale by owner for 20 years with no buyers........... Then, they want their money back.
Then, tears, gnashing of teeth, whining that they got ripped off and they should be able to get their money back, etc..... One example was my FIL buying an old farm truck from his BIL who was selling his own fathers classic heavy duty late 60s vintage truck. It was in good shape, Then my FIL used it for hauling stuff it was nowhere near heavy duty enough to haul. He blew it up then went after his BIL to get his money back because the truck broke down. Ummmm. It was 30+ years old when FIL bought it. It was clearly sold as is with the service records. But, using a 3/4 ton truck to do the work of a 1.5Ton truck ... guess what. It breaks.
My SIL did this with the Jeep we gave her when she came to live with us after my ILs signed for her to graduate a year early from HS. We paid for her Freshman year of Uni in an effort to break the generational failure model she was raised with. Part of that was us buying an extra vehicle for her use. After her first year she decided we were man, controlling, and made her go to class and do her homework when she didn't want to. Yep, our money, our standards. Surprise. To make the clean break when she chose to leave we signed the title of the Jeep over to her. She and MIL drove it across the country back to the small town world they live in. Then, they decided it was a good idea to haul tons of hay on a huge flat bed trailer behind a light duty Jeep Cherokee. Boom!. Blown engine and transmission. Then they called complaining that the Jeep was junk. Nope, you turned it into junk. You own it, you deal with it. Cry, cry, whine, whine... another thing on the list of how mean we are.
Our recent HS graduate eldest IL clan niece, same thing. Buys junk, wrecks it, then turns her nose up at the replacement junk her parents bought for her.
The multi-generational commitment ot failure is mind boggling.
Test scores show he's
Test scores show he's definitely well above average. Three teachers told DH and BM last year that he really should move up.
The slacking off, lying and manipulation are the big issue.
I'm not a big grades person. Just do your best. Even in regular classes, I don't think that happens. Honestly, adding up other issues, I think video games are a huge part of the problem.
Exactly why we purged games from our home in 6th/7th grade.
Not one second of video gaming after that.
Zombie screen brained idiocy was done. At about that time he got some feedback from his Band teacher that he still brings up upon occasion. SS-32 was capable of top performance. He absolutely targeted blending in the middle of any class, group, or effort. He hated attention.
His band teacher got to the point where they had enough of SS being a slug. "There is nothing about your behavior or your personality that is the least bit appealing!"
That tore SS up. SS was exceptionally well behaved and respectful. He would schmooze his teachers for the first 6wk grading period by doing well. After that he did absolutely nothing. He learned that if he passed the first six weeks he could not be held back. To be held back he had to fail the same two classes 12 weeks in a row. His schools all went to block scheduling for Middle and High school and each semester was a new set of classes. So, pass hte first 6wks of each semester and fail every class the second 6wks and there were no school induced consequences. We attempted to get the school ro fail him and make him repeat a year. Nope. they would not do it. He would get straight A-s the first grading period and straight Fs the second six weeks. We would get calls from the school, counselors, etc... Was something wrong at home? Was he on drugs? Nope, just him being him.
He would win writing contests. Then when he was to read his work at awards ceremonies he literally would walk off of the stage after only reading a few paragraphs. He would get recognized for his first 6wk grades, then.... nothing.
Military school resolved that, briefly. However, his SpermIdiot helped hack the school firewall and they would stay up all night nearly every night playing WoW to the point SS slept through class and starting failing classes. He went from a top performer, to nothing in less than a single semester. We jerked him out of Military school mid year of his Sr. year because of that crap. He loved that school but we were not flushing our money down the crapper at that point. Life as he had known it was done. He no longer was a privileged member of our home or family. He was our beck and call chore bitch. He was fed, housed, and clothed, but he had zero say over shit for anything. Misery was our goal for him and he had to step up and pass HS on time or... he was out. That scared the living shit out fo the kid. He did step up, but it was a soul sucking thoroughly depressing progression after a initially great Military school experience.
DW got all butt hurt by the Band teachers comment to SS in front of the whole class. I interjected that the message was exactly what he needed and in front of the whole class was exactly where it needed to be presented to him.
That was one of the few instances in SS's childhood where a message was delivered effectively in a way that got his attention. He never did step up and perform to his ability, he always ran for invisibility in the middle rather than at the level he would test at in assessments.
As an adult, he has found that performance delivers benefits, more money, promotion, etc.... He has figured that much out.
I wish for him the joy and happiness that his mom and I live together. I am not sure he is capable of that. Even in a notable career, he is solidly uninspired and has little to no true passion for much of anything. Except for his cat.
It breaks our hearts. He is a good looking man, he is extremely intelligent, he is successful in his career, he is a recognized leader, he is capable of so much more, and yet.... his commitment to morose mediocrity in so much of his life baffles us. And yes, gaming is part of his issue. He has never really learned to engage IRL. Rather than continuing the actual adventures he had while growing up with his mom and me, he would rather rent someone else's imagination. Not what his mom and I do. He will join us about once a year for a nice vacation, or a family gathering, but... he has no passion and little to no spark.
Certainly not what his parents want for him.
I told all of mine that once
I told all of mine that once they got into high school that it all counted , there were no second chances to fix any F ups. Next year isn't that far away. I'd start talking about it often , setting up expectations, how to meet them, getting him excited for life as an adult. Explain why the nagging, " because I love you and your my son" It's going to be hard to fight the other home but you try and recognize if it's a losing battle and throw in the towel.
As the mom and stepmom of 5 average kids.....
Our 5 kids were/are average prople. Some are smart in their own ways and DD was an exceptional student. All are high school graduates and DD has a BFA. SD graduated from beauty school and DS has some college credits. They are all in their 50s and 60s now.
The funny thing is thst the educational achievements don't correlate with their income. Our highest earner is YSS, a mediocre student who often skipped school. He's a natural salesman and manager and earns a 6-figure salary. DS also does well. He's a self-taught tech guy who owns 4 rental properties. In contrast, DD, with her degrer, is a SAHM. SD earned more with her beautician license than DD has.
So, in short, I'd let him slide on the advanced classes since he doesn't have the motivation and/or maturity The more important issue is regular attendance. I agree that the lying and manipulation are topics that should be addressed
Maybe he can't handle it
Maybe he can't handle it right now
Yes if they think something is too challenging then shutting down or even working themself up to the point of illness would be a sign to take it easy for a bit
I would agree.
I would agree.
Honestly, though, I don't think it's actually too hard. He has a history of giving up anything that doesn't come easily or requires a little extra effort. Or coming up with reasons/excuses not to do it. If it's not something he enjoys.
Given certain things we saw, I think his PS5 is part of it. When he brought it to our house, we dealt with him nearly being late to school, neglecting to do anything asked of him, resisting going to baseball practice, lying and sneaking to avoid turning it in at night (we have a no electronics at night rule). DH finally banned it from our home. But sounds like the behaviors continue at her house.
I don't think kids should be pushed too far beyond their abilities. Not good. But teaching them that sometimes you have to put in effort and/or do things you don't enjoy? Good life lesson.
(And DH and I don't believe he's actually sick. BM witnessed nothing and said he's eating and behaving like normal. He just says he threw up.)
Kids who are Performing below capabilities
Sometimes don't study. They don't know how to study because everything is easy. Going into advance classes means they have to study to keep up.. If they don't know how it becomes a problem
Exactly what I think part of
Exactly what I think part of the problem is. He was suddenly in classes that expected a little more effort. Hr had resources to help him, but he didn't use them.
I should clarify:
I should clarify:
I have no problem with a child being in regular classes or not making perfect grades. I just believe in doing your best.
i do have a problem with SS's pattern of lying and manipulation and laziness. I feel like he gives up or turns away any time something isn't easy or requires a little more effort. He's allowed to give up. I don't see how that attitude will serve him well later in life, whatever career path he chooses. Sometimes you have to put in effort (even if that means putting down the game controller). Fun? Not always. But the rewards can be great. He's not learning that.
Not really my Circus, so I'm not letting myself get worked up or invested.
The skids I used to deal with
The skids I used to deal with were lazy, coddled, entitled, whiny, underachieving people raised by the trees where they fell from so to speak
whether it will serve them in life? Not my monkey not my show......as long as they don't dare have the audacity to try to leech after 18+/become permanent freeloading roommates/permanent dependents
at least that's how I see it. I'll invest energy to help turn things around for the better IF I know my efforts will not be in vain.
If bio parents want to lackadaisically parent their kids that's on them but the consequences will not affect me
if you think investing energy and resources to help your ss is worth it then by all means support your spouse and ss how you see fit.