Are We Wrong?
If you have followed my story, you know that DH and BM lived within 100 miles of each other for 5 years. DH saw SS every Sunday and would attend doctor appointments and school functions throughout the week as able, driving the hour and a half each way to attend. BM had a nasty trick of telling DH about appointments and events day of, expecting him to drop everything to attend, and making him out to be a deadbeat if he couldn't. DH could rarely attend due to the short notice and BM reminds him of his "voluntary absenteeism" often. BM moved SS 6 hours out of state when SS was 5, so she could move in with her GF. DH attempted to fight it in court, but lost due to BM having sole custody. DH and I visited there a few times to watch SS' sporting events and such, but financially it was a burden between hotels, food, gas, entertainment, etc. A weekend in BMLand could set us back $500-$1k just to watch a game or attend a school event. BM always lectured DH about how important it was that he be involved in SS' community down there including school and sporting events. She even made this her "hill to die on" in court, asking the judge to force DH to visit 7x a year in BMLand, before a judge shut her down for it being "unreasonable." In 2020, DH and I moved to be closer to my family which resulted in less distance from SS, taking the drive time from 6 hours to 4 hours one way. BM thought this was the perfect time to encourage more visits in BMLand since 4 hours was a "more reasonable" distance. DH and I visited again in 2022, making a weekend of it. We made plans to visit again last Fall, but a family death days before led to the trip being cancelled.
Just prior to this summer visitation, BM brought it up again, how important it is to "engage in SS' community," how strongly SS feels about it, and how DH simply refuses and disagrees with her on this. She mentioned that "SS sees how DH uses his PTO and his money to travel, but it's never to see SS in BMLand." Here are my thoughts on this.
1.) While we don't travel to BMLand often, we do use our PTO and money to travel with SS while he is visiting here, so it's not like SS is watching us spend time and money on other trips while he is excluded.
2.) BM always mentions that her parents visit often (typically once every month or two) and as SS' Dad, he should want to do the same. The difference is BM's parents are retired, have much more funds to do that, and have a free place to stay when they do, since they stay with BM. I feel like she is comparing apples to oranges here.
3.) BM never brings SS up to our state/her former state (where all of DH and her family lives) unless it coincides with a pick-up. BM makes the argument that we should make time and spend money to visit SS in BMLand, yet BM doesn't even hold herself to the standard of bringing SS here for things on DH or her side of the family. I know if SS said he wanted to attend something for DD, or a birthday party for a grandparent, she would tell him "No." It feels like a double standard.
4.) While the distance isn't super far, I still feel like 4 hours one way is unreasonable for trivial stuff like an hour long sporting event or school award ceremony. It sucks because it's like we're far, but not far enough to make that boundary super clear. I feel like it would be easier to argue if we were across the country or something.
5.) BM moved SS away from DH resulting in DH's absenteeism. She took SS away from a Dad who saw him weekly and now blames him for being absent. If she truly cared about DH being involved, she wouldn't have moved IMO.
I've been beating us up about this for a while because we don't want to let SS down, but my gut tells me this seems unreasonable. I can't tell if we are "in the right" and BM is just gaslighting us, or if BM is right and we need to do more. So, I guess my question is, are we wrong for not visiting SS in BMLand to attend sporting events and school events? Should we be trying to get involved in SS' community in BMLand? We obviously plan to attend the big things (i.e sport championships, graduation, etc.) but these day-to-day events seem unreasonable given all the coordination it would take.
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I think SS is old enough for
I think SS is old enough for his father to talk to him about this. His feelings count. Until that happens, I would continue as you have always done.
DH has asked SS how he feels
DH has asked SS how he feels on this. SS doesn't give an answer, he just shrugs. DH just says "Well if you have something you want us to come to, just let us know" and leaves it at that.
No. If she wanted him
No. If she wanted him involved that badly, coming to games and whatnot, she wouldn't have moved far away. SHE moved away, not you. She doesn't hold herself to the same standard. If he lived with you guys, would she make the effort to come visit like she's expecting you two to do? I highly doubt it. If she wanted him more involved then she would have stayed close by. I think she doesn't want him involved but wants to make it appear that HE doesn't want to be involved so that SHE doesn't look like the bad guy for moving SS far away. She doesn't want SS to see her for the parent alienating liar that she is.
No, you aren’t unreasonable,
No, you aren’t unreasonable, four hours is a long car trip and like you said spending money EOW or so to facilitate BM’s never-ending whining is ridiculous. My brother and his wife live four hours away, know how often we go visit? Usually on a major holiday…why? Because we have jobs and lives and trips like that take time and cost money.
My grandparents live 3.5
My grandparents live 3.5 hours away from us and I usually see them once a year.
I would probably send a text
I would probably send a text if they send garbage like "oh he doesn't come enough. Blah blah SS notices... Etc
I would say, You chose to move far away so now we are limited in how often we come to visit and we make it as much as possible considering the great distance that now exists from your move . It would have really been easier to visit more often if we had lived closer and unfortunately that is a reality that you have created.
We will likely come X-ish times as is feasible for our schedule. You are also, of course welcome to bring him here to our state as was the jurisdiction that you left and SS vuas come from this area. That is what we can offer under the circumstance and any judgement on your part regarding the distance and travelling we won't respond to. It's not proper form to tell our child that *you don't feel we aren't visiting enough. So.. If you see this as a problem it's really one that you have created so you aren't really in a position to complain about this after the fact. The truth is if you wanted him to have more visits and time you would have remained closer and you have caused this issue
Yeah, DH didn't entertain her
Yeah, DH didn't entertain her comments because he knew she was looking to pick a fight. He just ignored that part of the email.
I get it. Wouldn't it be nice
I get it. Wouldn't it be nice to send (Hypothetically).
Bm pisses me off how she's on such a high horse despite having been the one to move there.. Argg
Eta to me it seems like she's the one who has planted any sort of idea. Whenever I hear something like that it's always the parent saying those things and she shouldnt be telling him anything like that. I just feel like it's her saying that
I have a lot of "wouldn't it
I have a lot of "wouldn't it be nice" messages I would love to send, but I've learned that way less is more with BM, no matter what she sends. DH used to try to defend himself against her and it only led to lengthier emails and more fighting. With BM being a narc, she will never accept accountability for her own shortcomings, so any rebuttal is just wasted breath.
I find this obsession with
I find this obsession with being at every game a bit over the top. When I was a kid, we played our sports without parents watching. I can't remember my parents ever being at any of my matches. We just liked playing, we didn't need an audience.
You never can win as a parent. You two are doing a great job.
If you wanted to plan one or two trips a year then you could, but honestly as long as you keep to your scheduled visits and have contact between them you are providing consistency and not bankrupting your household and going insane trying to keep up with BM's demands.
You are not trying to please BM you are trying to help raise your SS and build bonds. And you just did that. He didn't leave his summer visit saying he wanted you to visit him more, he left saying he wanted to visit you for longer.
That's what we feel is
That's what we feel is appropriate. If we make it down to visit, cool, but if not, oh well. We place more value on SS' time spent visiting here and we use that time fully and call twice weekly when he's not here.
You are not wrong... except .
You are not wrong... except ... rather than fighting the move DH should have petitioned for a long distance visitation schedule. He still should IMHO.
Full physical and legal custody does not mean the the CP chooses the visitation schedule and gets to do whatever they choose regarding visitation. No doubt there is a standard long distance visitation schedule in the jurisdiction where the CO was issued. DH needs to get that invoked ASAP.
The court will make the boundary super clear with a defined visitation order.
In our case, the CO remained in SpermLand courts for the duration after DW moved out of state with SS on her hip for University. She had full physical and legal custody and there was no visitation schedule ordered under the first paternity and CS order issued before SS was a year old.
The SpermClan attempted to take custody when SpermGrandHag learned that DW was dating someone at University. That hearing occurred 3 days after our wedding and 3 days before SS turned 2yo. Full physical and legal custody for DW was upheld, CS was raised by $23/mo from $110/mo to $133/mo and a long distance visitation schedule for the Spermidiot was invoked by the Court. 5Wks summer, 1Wk winter, 1Wk spring with each party responsible for transporting the kid to their location.
I recommend that DH get a lawyer, and get to court for a COd visitation schedule. Custody status and visitation are separate elements just as CS is a separate element.
Time for DH to grow a pair and take some control over this crap. It isl ong past the time for DH to continue to be BM's whipping post. Once the visitation schedule is ordered, that is hte hill to die on if BM fails to complay. Nail her ass with a contempt motion each and every time she fails to surrender SS per the visitation schedule.
Toxicity must be confronted IMHO. This is no exception.
The only message to be sent to BM should be a court action to establish a fixed visitation schedule. Tme for you and DH to grow a pair and stop jumping through your asses backwards at BM's command or otherwise entertain her blather.
"BM, read the F'n visitation schedule! Other than that, STFU!"
I don't know where you got
I don't know where you got your information, but your entire comment is completely opposite of the facts of our case.
1. When DH attempted to stop the move, he also used that to petition for a long distance visitation schedule, in the event that stopping the move failed. It was granted and we were given 4 weeks in summer (in two two weeks stints), half of Christmas break, and alternating spring and Thanksgiving breaks. Since DH never had overnights with SS prior to this (despite multiple court filings - another fail of the family courts), we weren't given the 6 weeks in summer that is standard with long distance visitation. BM always followed this CO to a tee.
2. We repetitioned the courts two years after BM moved for an increase in summer visitation. The request was denied due to SS' sports obligations. The judge ordered we would maintain 4 weeks total, but it could be broken down or adjusted to accommodate SS' sports and the DH would cooperate to ensure SS' involvement. It basically gave BM full power over summer and DH was forced to accept whatever she proposed each year based on the sport schedule. We did not just allow that flexibility to be added. We appealed and lost. The judge told DH if we brought another custody case against BM before SS turned 18, he would dismiss it on the spot because "A child needs their Mom." Again, appealed and lost. We maintained all other visitation as originally ordered, gaining two long weekends during the school year. Again, BM did not withhold.
3. DH petitioned a change of venue, since neither party resided in the county anymore. We requested the case be transferred to our new county or BM's new county. Our petition was denied. We appealed, it was still denied. We went through 3 judges and stayed denied. I am assuming the county wanted to maintain the case for financial benefits.
4. DH has never had a reason to file contempt on BM. She has always operated within the regulations of the CO, walking the line in doing so, but she has never crossed that line. DH doesn't let BM dictate the visitation schedule, but he also can't eliminate the "grey area" that allows her flexibility in summer. He always enforces his 4 weeks in summer and every other CO'd visitation to the tee.
5. DH has dealt with BM in the best way we can given the situation. We are absolutely a failure of the family court system who believes Mothers are automatically better than Fathers. DH has spent tens of thousands of dollars (our last custody battle totaling $30k) and years in court trying to stay involved in SS' life, only for us to get the bare minimum. DH has battled it out with BM outside of court, but given her narc tendencies, she will never cave and will never accept her own responsibility in this mess. We have appealed and lost, we have sought other legal counsel and they all say the same thing - given our situation, we are stuck. SS is 12 and there is no feasible way to change the situation now. DH still talks to coaches, use the FB page and team chats to gain evidence, etc. in case we need to challenge BM for summers. We just have to stay the course until he turns 18 and can decide for himself.
At this point, we don't give a rats ass about appeasing BM. We just want to do right by SS and make sure he feels supported by us. So if visiting SS in BMLand makes him feel supported, we will. If it doesn't, we won't.
Thanks for the reminder of
Thanks for the reminder of your tragic journey through bottom 10%er of the legal profession Judge hell.
I cound not imagine the experiences you have had with the idiot Judge in your case.
We could have changed venue without any ability for SpermLand courts to intervene once SS had been resident in our Texas county for 6mos. We chose not to do that. Though CS would have likely increased by ~10X, visitation would have likely doubled and no amount of money would motivate us to expose him to any more time in direct manipulation by them.
Texas is a great state for mitigating the blather of idiot court orders from other States regarding custody and support orders. Once a child is resident in a Texas county for 6mos, that county immediately assumes jurisdiction. Though the other party has to be notified via the Texas court. Which requires that the parent resident in Texas with the child files the appropriate request paperwork. Once the CO is registered in Texas, the appropriate Texas court can modify it and enforce it on the parties involved.
We considered it but did not want to risk more than the 7wks of visitation ordered in the SpermLand CO.
Your reminder above triggered a thought on what likely allowed the original court issuing your CO to decline your change of venue request. You were not resident where the Skid is resident. BM did not engage on the change of venue. We and the SKid were resident in Texas so change of venue would have pretty much been automatic had we filed.
BM filing may have been more effective in driving change of venue in your case though she obviously would not risk losing the benefits of being a BM under the protection of that idiot Judge?
I'm sorry you are all living this hell.
You are not wrong and DH needs to continue to ignore those comme
You are not wrong, and DH needs to continue to ignore those comments. You know that even if you did attend events, that SS would not be able to spend very much time with you, and what time was spent would be strained as he would be doing nothing except thinking about BM and GF and trying to please them. Your recent experience with how well the long visit went shows that for SS to really be himself with you, he needs to be completely away from BM and GF.
BM doesn't really want you there, she just wants to use this as one more thing to make DH look bad. And we all know that if you did go more often, she would figure out a way to use that against you. Please have more confidence in your decisions - you guys are doing great! Only make the journey to see SS for those occasions that are really important to you. (Pretty much using the plural "you" in these comments - meaning both you and DH...)
Life just sucks
You are fighting a losing battle. All you can try to do. Now it's a 4 hour trip. Is to look for a good cheap motel. With a pool. Indoor pool. Where you can go down early Saturday, stay Saturday night. Spend tine on Sunday before returning home. It's still going to cost $400. I guest
You have a high conflict bm.
You have a high conflict bm. Many here on ST know them well.
A big take away for you and dh is this:
When bm is at it again, remember that your Judge has already told her she is being unreasonable.
Take this HUGE win and nod from the court, and learn to ignore her gibberish.
Sounds to me like she wants a
Sounds to me like she wants a babysitter in her neighborhood 7x/year as opposed to an actual coparent.
It also sounds like optics are important to her so perhaps air her out all over social media "missing SS today- wish BM prioritized parenting over sports" something to that effect. If she tries to punch back make it all PUBLIC in that you'd love to attend a PCP appointment but need 48 hours notice to notify work, etc.
The dissonance between what she thinks of herself as a parent vs the court of public opinion would be too much for her ego to handle.