OT: Controlling Mothers
I feel like I have been circling the drain lately. DH and I have so much going on between preparing for our baby who is due in 4 months, building a house which is set to close in 5 months, both of us working full time (and overtime), worrying about finances due to all the big changes, and dealing with the dramas of family dynamics, including MIL (as I posted previously) and now my Mother. Not to mention, baby girl has been sitting very low, so I am experiencing constant and sometimes debilitating sciatic and round ligament pain that has landed me bedridden on and off and unable to walk.
I have never mentioned my Mom on this blog, but I think she is part of why I have such problems coping/dealing with HCBM, because HCBM and my Mom have similar narc tendencies. For backstory: my mother was abused by her biological father (who had paranoid schizophrenia) until she was 11. My grandma tried to leave numerous times, but was always located and brought back. No fault divorces weren't a thing back then and every time my grandma filed, her request was denied. Her husband appeared to be a model citizen (with narc tendencies) so the locals never suspected a thing. My grandma was also being abused, so it was hard to leave when she had no resources to help you leave. My Mom has always had a constant need for control. I can't tell if my Mom has similar tendencies to her biological Dad, because I have never met him. We have always just said that her need for control stems from the abuse she faced and having no control over that situation.
My childhood was average, but Mom was always in control; controlling the clothes I wore, how my hair was styled, the activities I did, the friends I had, etc. I didn't think much of it until I went to college and as an adult, I realized it wasn't normal to be so involved and to need so much control. My Mom was monitoring my bank account/spending, tracking my car via GPS, and setting demands for what I went to school for and the jobs I held. I started pushing back, which led to my Mom falling into a victim/gaslighting mode; always claiming that I don't understand, or I misunderstood, or that she is only looking out for me like a good parent, making sure I was okay and successful. If I pushed back too hard, she would threaten to kick me out during summer breaks when I had nowhere else to go or drain my bank accounts, which kept me in check until I was financially able to achieve independence and get out from under it. I have done well to set boundaries over the years, and when they are not respected, I put Mom back into her appropriate lane. I do not rely on my parents for anything and DH and I are financially independent.
My Mom was a SAHM for my entire childhood, not because she couldn't work, but because she didn't want to. Being a Mom is my Mom's only identity and when my brother and I became adults and stopped needing a "parent," she had a really hard time. She keeps saying that she wishes we were little again or that she wants a "do over." One of my friend's parents recently adopted a young child, and my Mom is clearly jealous over it, even if she won't admit it. When I announced I was pregnant, my Mom immediately started overstepping. She is creating a full blown nursery at her house, complete with a full crib set, changing table, dresser, and rocker. She has bought tons of clothes for her house only. My Mom has ordered a stroller for her house and even questioned if she would need a diaper bag. I have reminded my Mom that this is her GRANDchild, not her child. I have told her that we are building a house 15 minutes away, and likely, our child will never use that nursery and that she doesn't need a stroller or diaper bag. My Mom argues that "I will need help" and that I "don't understand since I have never done this before" and that my child will likely be at her house more than I realize. I disagree. My Mom has told me that she wants me to raise our daughter like I was raised. Last night, my Mom admitted that she may undermine me as a parent to my daughter and go behind my back if she feels I am being unreasonable. I swiftly told her that she will lose all contact with me and her grandchild if she believes that. I fear that my Mom views my pregnancy and our baby as her chance at a "do over" and that she isn't accepting that she is not the parent and has no rights.
We had a meeting with our home builder last night to go over some final upgrades that need to be addressed prior to framing and insulation. I requested that my Dad be there, as he is a contractor, and a good person to have around in these situations. Well of course, Mom insisted on coming with Dad because she "needs to be involved" and doesn't trust Dad when she isn't around. The builder handed DH and I renderings and blueprints and my Mom was literally standing, hovering, and trying to take the paper from us. I smacked her hand and told her to wait a minute, that it is our house, and she doesn't need this information. She got all upset and said that DH and I have never built before, and she and Dad built their house, so I need to let the "experts" handle it. I ignored her and she kept trying to pull the paper away. The builder then asked us some questions about fixtures. Before we could even respond, my Mom answered for us. When I corrected her, she said "Sorry." DH and I told the builder what we wanted and my Mom muffled "I wouldn't do that" under her breath. We again ignored her. After the meeting wrapped up, my Mom requested that I provide her with copies of the blueprints and renderings provided at the meeting for "her own record keeping." I told her "No."
This has all escalated in the past 3 months or so. My Mom has always been controlling, but never to this extent and frankly, I am at a loss. I am close to my family and don't want to cut contact completely, but I also feel like I am struggling to have my Mom in my life when she cannot respect boundaries. It is creating so much anxiety at a time where I already have so much going on. Any/all advice is appreciated.
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Comments
You are going to have to
You are going to have to continually and constantly push back. After that meeting, that should be the last time your mom attends a meeting. No more builder meetings for her. (Tell the builder she is to have no information if/when she calls to ask.) Don't even show her paint samples. If she gives you unsolicited advice, just smile and say that's interesting or something neutral (then discard her view if you don't agree). If she asks about the house, just say it's fine and move on to another topic.
Since she does not understand the difference between grandma and mom, cut her off from knowledge of obgyn visits. You can fill her in afterwards, if you want. She does not need to be there. If she somehow manages to find out about the appointment, tell the staff you don't want her there. They will deal with her. When birth time gets closer, be sure to tell the hospital and the doctor that she is not to be let in. You don't need that stress. They will keep her out.
Mom won't learn that no means no unless you set the boundaries high, and keep them high, until she realizes you mean it. It's hard, as you want to discuss these exciting events in your life with her, but you can't until mom learns her role.
If she has been this way you whole life, you probably can expect bouts of normalcy (when she respects boundaries) and then a return to no respect, so you need to be vigilant and push back immediately when your boundary is violated.
Luckily, I have been working
Luckily, I have been working to maintain strong boundaries. After the meeting with the builder last night, I did call the builder and inform her that she is not to accept phone calls or discuss details with my Mom. She will not be made aware of any future builder meetings.
I also have not informed my Mom of any OBGYN appointments. DH and I have been going to those together and we don't even inform her about the baby's progress after either. She did make a comment about being at the hospital for the birth, and I made it clear that only DH and I will be at the hospital. My physician and their staff are aware.
Next time she acts up, cut
Next time she acts up, cut her off. Tell her that if she wants it to change then she has until the birth of the baby to fix her behavior or she will miss out on grandmahood. Play tough now and you might get thru to her. I can't see how you can change anything you until you get tough with her. What about your father? Her doormat or will he support your boundaries? This baby will need you to be strong for it. Can you do that or will you need some short term therapy to get there?
I have been in and out of
I have been in and out of therapy for years dealing with HCBM and my Mother. I think I can remain strong when implementing boundaries, I have done so thus far.
My Dad is supportive of my boundaries and he and her often fight over her need to control everything. My Mom even controls him. Honestly, my Dad is contemplating divorce because he can't handle her anymore, but he is trying to get his financial ducks in a row before he does anything.
Unfortunately you have to be
Unfortunately you have to be firm. Not Jello firm, concrete firm. You can't soften or waver or she will ooze through every boundry you set. I know it seems mean but it isn't. You have to do it for your own sake and your family's sake. You can still love her and keep your firmness.
Do we share a mom? My mother
Do we share a mom? My mother is the same way and has pretty much controlled my life up until a few years ago. I stopped allowing her to control my narrative and lump me in with her world views. Sadly it has created a distance with us, one I can't close because if I do then she will think it's okay for her to go right back to controlling and manipulating my life.
The only advice I can offer is keep your boundaries strong and in place, don't invite her on anymore home inspections you are going to be doing. Keep her in the peripheral of it all. Same way when your child comes...I allowed my mother way too much freedom with my children and it caused me a lot of issues I never should have had to deal with.
Ugh! That sounds exhausting.
Ugh! That sounds exhausting. Do you have any allies who can help you to hold boundaries with your mother while you're recovering from birth and caring for a newborn? Do your dad or brother help at all? You'll be generally exhausted after the birth and also want to spend time just focusing on your baby, so having to manage around your mother will be an unwelcome intrusion. She might also be one to take advantage of your physical and emotional exhaustion at that time to overstep. The other option is to give her a "role" that she can be in charge of right after the birth. For example, she's in charge of cooking for you or cleaning your house. Holding your baby or caring for your baby is not "helping". My MIL would come over and want to hold my baby for hours and feed her, expecting me to cater to her while she sat holding my baby (she would put her hand out and say "I need a burp cloth" and expect me to go fetch it for her). That was not helpful to me, even if it did give me a little bit of rest...it also disrupted my baby's schedule and overstimulated her, to the point where I had many nights where my poor, overtired, overstimulated newborn was screaming while I was alone (MIL had gone and DH was off with SKids). Good luck! I would suggest going to counseling with your mother about boundaries, but she doesn't sound like someone is capable of changing, so joint counseling would just be a waste of time.
Also, I would definitely suspect that your issues with your mom cause triggers with HCBM. For me, it's my sister. She and HCBM are both mean-spirited manipulators who love to cause drama and I know that growing up and being constantly bullied by my sister without much intervention from my parents (I think my mom was (and still is) scared of my sister) totally triggers me, esp when DH doesn't step in because he's scared of BM (or used to her antics).
My Dad and my DH are my rocks
My Dad and my DH are my rocks through all of this. My Dad said he will be my first line of defense to keep my Mom at bay after birth and DH will be the second. My brother is on the autism spectrum and doesn't have a very firm grasp on boundaries. He understands how Mom is, but he isn't much help in stopping it. I have already set parameters to visitation after birth, that I will only welcome short visits and nothing more. I could totally see my Mom expecting me to cater to her, while she "sits" with the baby. This will not be happening.
My parents tried marriage counseling a few years back and Mom basically left all sessions either saying that the counselor agreed with her 100% or the counselor was an idiot who knows nothing. My Mom can never acknowledge her own flaws and she is never at fault for anything. Counseling would be an absolute waste of time. I did seek counseling for myself for years to help me establish strong boundaries and I feel like that has been helpful. I think my history with my Mom triggers my experiences with HCBM because BM cannot be at fault either. DH and I are to blame for everything and we are constantly judged by her. I think because I experienced that my entire childhood at the hands of my own mother, it triggers me when BM does it. My Mom used her narc tendencies to manipulate me and HCBM tries to do the same. I am thankful that DH has developed and maintained strong boundaries with HCBM, but conflict with BM always triggers me.
Ugh that sounds awfully frustrating!
I actually draft construction documents and went to school on building and design, but even with my background I can't imagine trying to take papers away from my child and her husband who's house is being built.
Your mother is definitely very controlling and opinionated and that is definitely extremely frustrating. My parents are not nearly as controlling or opinionated as that and I have problems with how/when they sometimes put their opinion in. When my DH and I got together, he would sometimes wonder why I would hold back on some things I would tell them and I told him because it is not something they need to know and not something I want/need their opinion on.
We actually just put a deposit down for a new larger suv we are waiting to come in next week and my DH said when I tell my parents to not give them all the details because he now knows how opinionated they can be and did not want to hear it. I know they mean well and just want to make sure we aren't being screwed over or anything plus my dad is the king of trading in and getting new cars, BUT they have the habit of putting their two cents in when it is not needed or wanted.
Are you the older sibling? I am the oldest of my siblings by 8 and 12 years so I know they struggle sometimes on trying to protect me or letting go because they never have had to before and still have 2 children they are very involved with (19 & 15). I have had to put up my boundaries and had quite a few unpleasant conversations, but things have luckily gotten better plus I know when not to overshare with them.
I am sorry your mom was raining on your parade and it does sound like it will be a battle with your newborn too, but the better you can put up the boundaries before the birth, hopefully will help things be smoother down the line. That must of been really exciting and it will be even more exciting once the house is finished! I agree with the poster who said make it clear to the builder your mother has no say in anything on the house and nicely, but firmly tell her after the stress of the last meeting, you and your DH would prefer to attend without her involvement. You are pregnant and have been bed ridden for other reasons, I would play up the extra stress does not help your pregnancy.
I am the older sibling by
I am the older sibling by four years. My brother is on the autism spectrum and Mom controls him similar to how she tries to control me. It drives my brother nuts too. I swear my Mom believes we are both incompetent and need Mom to handle everything.
I have been good about implementing my boundaries, but I think I am still learning on not seeking approval. I need to stop letting my parents give their two cents or stop sharing information so they seem inclined to give their two cents.
Ah, so that definitely
does not help her on letting go in putting her two cents in where you are concerned.
At least you know and acknowledge part of the problem, but implimenting and carrying it out is a totally different story. I guess only bright side is your mom cares enough like my parents care enough to listen, think, and advise where my DH has no relationship with his mother and his father is so self absorbed he doesn't have an opinion on anything going on in DH's life, everything is just great when it obviously is and is sympathetic when things are obviously not great, but beyond that, he has nothing else to say. My DH never asks his dad or tells his dad anything serious, instead he calls my parents.
Stay strong
Stay strong, CastleJJ. You're going to have to stay strong for your little girl. You've got a lot on your plate.
My mother was like this and I
My mother was like this and I get where you're coming from and why it's so hard to fight. She always claims that it's in my best interest. And how rude I am for not accepting help. And soooo many intrusive questions that I loathed to answer because she'll then give her unasked for opinion on everything. Sometimes it felt like talking to a brick wall. It took two years of extremely low contact for her to accept my boundaries. I didn't even tell her I was pregnant until I was 7 months along. Didn't want the stress of her trying to manage my diet or something ridiculous along those lines. I've found if you're going to go down that path it's easier to not be confrontational about it and just sneakily grey rock her. Just not make the info available to her and stop taking calls. Eventually she'll get it.
Does your mother have a history of depression or anxiety? Mine improved drastically after we got her into counselling to address the anxiety. At the root of it all is her overwhelming fear that things are going to go wrong and she needs to be in control to stop it. It all makes sense in her head but she couldn't see how her own actions contributed to the breakdown in our relationship when she only wanted the best for us.
My Mom has never been
My Mom has never been diagnosed with any mental health conditions, but me being a mental health professional, know that she has something, whether it's anxiety, OCD, or a personality disorder. If a counselor gets close to a diagnosis, or gets close to figuring my Mom out, Mom quits counseling, so she has never gotten a formal diagnosis.
You’re doing the right things
Just keep holding firm to your boundaries. I know you don't want to, but if she absolutely cannot respect those boundaries and continues to overstep, maybe take a break. Tell her you need space and take 1, 2, 4 weeks, however long you need with no contact from her to give yourself peace.
This is speaking from experience. I don't know if it's a generational thing, but my mom is the same. 100% controlled my life through college graduation when I moved across the country. I live on the other side of the planet now and she STILL tries to take control, talks down to me and treats me like a young child that can't do anything for myself. It's hard with T as well. My mom likes to point out all of the things I'm doing wrong as a parent to T and she would never do that! When I was pregnant she was trying to book tickets to come over, telling me she was going to stay for months and I needed to get a room ready for her. I quickly shut that down, no way, so instead, again, completely overstepping boundaries, she tried to design T's bedroom, sent boxes and boxes of baby clothes, toys and other things. I had to get my dad to take the credit card away. It was reaching a point of hysteria. We have a very small house, at one point I had 2 closets full of baby clothes, never mind the baby room full to the brim to the point where I couldn't fit a baby in it!
At any rate, the only thing that works with my mother is to temporarily cut her off when she completely oversteps. There is no other way. I still keep in touch with my dad during that time.
Hold on. Your mother bought a
Hold on. Your mother bought a FULL nursery for her house, but I'm assuming didn't buy one for your house?
I'm not at all saying she owes you a nursery, but that's a level of delusion that I'd set even more firm boundaries with than you've already done.
I wouldn't let her come to your new house after baby is born. I'd wait until you are healed and your DH is available, then visit her at her house. That gives YOU the control to leave after what you deem to be a "short visit".
I'd also consider a Ring doorbell if you don't already have one so you can see her comings and goings at your new place. Also allows you to tell her "it's not a good time" without ever having to open your door.
Don't tell her when you go into labor. Tell her after you've already given birth, and perhaps after you're already home. My SBro and SIL planned to do that with their eldest, but since my SIL had a C-section and was in the hospital for a few days, they caved. Asked only immediate family (like, her mom and sister) to come for a 15 minute visit. Her whole fam damily showed up, and they were PISSED when SBro told them to GTFO.
Anything you can do where you get to keep control of the situation is probably best. My mother isn't nearly as crazy, but I've slowly evolved into driving myself out to meet her versus having her pick me up, screen her calls until I am available to talk and have a time frame, etc. That has helped tremendously.
My Mom bought a full nursery
My Mom bought a full nursery set for her house and my parents gifted us a full nursery set for our house for our baby shower gift. I think it was just concerning that she was creating a fully stocked nursery for my daughter who likely won't visit all that often and definitely won't be sleeping over.
My DH works in IT so we have all the security cameras, ring doorbell, the works. We bought it all when HCBM was making false allegations and we needed cameras to document her pick-ups/drop offs and interactions outside our home. We plan to keep those going forward for both HCBM and any other concerning visitors.
DH and I have been working on strengthening our boundaries and have already laid out the rules for delivery (just us, no one else until we get home) and visitation after birth.
If you hang out with her,
If you hang out with her, make there be a time limit. Have it be something with an end, like, you go out to eat or to the park then go home. No hanging at each others' houses, or go to her house but have something you have to leave for after an hour. Same with phone calls. Have a set time/way to get off the phone with her. Like "I can only talk till 3, then (blank) starts!", or have your DH say "Hey, i need your help with something!" really loud by the phone.
In the hospital, state it's just you and your DH. Covid should make that a pretty easy thing. Do not depend on her at all for helping with the baby, or take any help from her that would make her think you owe her something.
I'm an introvert who likes my space. I do those things even with people i like!