Might be the beginning of the end - LONG
I don't post much, but I read regularly. My SD graudated (luckily) in May of this year and turned 18 in August. She was gone for her summer visit with BM on her bday and we weren't sure if she was going to come back to our house or not. My DH and I thought she would choose to live with her mom, or at least stay for quite some time. BUT, on a Saturday night 1 month ago, at 10:34 p.m., DH gets a text that says, "I'm coming home tomorrow." DAMN IT, was my first thought, but I digress. My SD is very unmotivated and lazy. She has never really had a job (she was given a job from a friends mom and worked 3 week before all the COVID crap happened, and then got let go). Soooo....I say she does not have any relevant work experience. She is also not very smart. She cannot count money, at all, and has my bios count her money for her before she goes anywhere. She also reads at about a 5th grade level, and does not remember nor comprehend much of she reads or what others tell her. Even BM, who isn't much brighter, has gotten on her about her forgetfullness. She is not just playing stupid, it is legit that she doesn't rememer.
Over the summer, while SD18 ws gone, and we weren't sure what was going on, my DH and I had many discussions about what our expectations would be IF she came home. Once she graced up with her presence, he gave her one week until we had the "come to Jesus" talk with her about being 18 and opting not continue her education, etc. She was told things like, you HAVE to get a job, you will continue paying your portion of the phone bill until you are 19 and then you get your own plan, you are now responsible for your own toiletries except TP and toothpaste (these things are always in the bathroom because of my bios), you will start paying rent (DH set it at a whopping $20/month) in March and it will gradually go up, and you are responsible for you own transportation for work (she does not have her permit or DL). There were more expectations, but these are the key points. When I was allowed to chime in, I added that we will be giving her a launch date and to expect it to be near January 2023 (I know this is a very long time, but SD needs A LOT of help and DH claims he is going to start helping in that area). I then added that if she doesn't like our rules, then she is free to leave and that if she chooses to not follow the rules, we will ask her to leave. DH jumps in real quick and tells her he will NEVER KICK HER OUT. I stopped talking and let him finish the conversation.
The next day, after I thought about everything and collected my thoughts, I sat my DH down and told him how I felt. I told him you basically just told your daughter that no matter what, even if she chooses to not get a job, she will always be allowed to live with us, and that is NOT ok with me. My money goes towards keeping this house running too and I will not continue to enable an adult freeloader. I continued that there needs to be an end date, period. She needs to know that she wil not live with us forever. I added a few other things, such as if she finds herself pregnant she has signed her own eviction notice. He agreed and we left it at that.
Fast forward about 10 days. She has not even started lookign for a job yet, which pisses me off to say the least. Not to mention that she has ZERO chores around the house, which pisses me off even more. Soooo, I talk to my DH yet again. He gets upset this time and gets defensive. He tells me, I give you an inch and you take a mile with her. I stopped him in his tracks, because it is my house too and I have just as much say over an adult living in my house absolutely FREE. He then proceeeds to tell me that he told her she doesn't need to look for work until after we move into our new house (we close at the end of October); WTF!?!? He thinks it is silly for her to find work by our current house (in his defense, we are moving an hour away) because she cannot drive and it would be crazy to go that far for work anyway. I explain she can still start looking for work closer to the new house, because without any experience and not able to work with money/numbers, she isn't going to have many options. Therefore, she needs to start looking now. He stays silent. A few nights later at dinner, I asked if she had started thinking about what she was going to do or if she was looking for work; she answered no. I asked if she had any plans; she said no. Sadly, I then exploded in anger at her. It was a very short, loud rant about having to get a job and start plannign to move out, and she sat there in silence, occasionally glancing up at DH for help, but he ignored the entire thing. I am not proud of how I acted, but it happened, and I felt better for getting some emotions out.
Anyhow, I did talk to DH the next morning and I told him that I will not bring up looking for work to SD again until after we move, and I will only bring it up IF I notice that she isn't actively looking. I also laid out my expectations. If she isn't working by March (the month her 1st rent pmt is due), then she will be off our family phone plan and she will need to get her own. If she is not working by April, she will begin paying 1/5 of the water bill, no job by May - 1/5 of electric bill, June - 1/5 of Wifi, etc. If she is stil not working by January 2022, she will need to go live with her mother; period. I explained I will NOT compromise on this. No job after HS graduation for 19 months is not acceptable. He somewhat agreed and that is where we have left it.
He has NEVER followed through with her and I truly believe that he won't force her to grow up. I have not said one word to her unless she has directly asked me a question in over 2 weeks. The few times she has asked me a question, my answers are very short and to the point; I would guess no more than 10 words spoken in total. I act as if she is not there. This is not how I envisioned my life being and I am not sure I can continue like this. The only thing I know for sure is that if she does not get a job and my DH is not on her butt about growing up, then I am done. I will not continue to put myself through this.
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SD21 Feral Forger Chronicles
Greetings. If you would like a look into your future, check out my journal entries. Your SD probably isnt as bad as mine, and I know that mine is a bit smarter, but well, I am relating to your post.
Firstly, however, Im curious: you are giving payment as a repercussion for not having a job. Rent payments, water bill payments, etc...my confusion is how is racking up debt (because with no job = no ability to pay anything) going to encourage her to get a job...my SD has purposely not had a job because that means she doesnt have to pay for anything and doesnt have to pay off the money she stole from her mother, Toxic Troll. (see my posts for THAT humdinger).
SDnow21, when she turned 18, she then had the ability to take a driving test and start driving without the exxpensive drivers ed required for under 18.
She STILL has no license and STILL does not drive. Severely limiting her job opps. I think this is key for you to get that kid launched. Get her driving! Your DH needs to get on the ball with her "training". Honestly, Im also confused as to why you are not madder at your husband, her FATHER, than her. Im quite pissed at Feral Forgers parents that they just pretty much did nothing about her from a younger age, and now shes a useless, dirty, moocher, who just might be selling herself because no job.
You should be yelling at HIM. You should be frosting out HIM. And how dare he get upset. And how dare he make that decision without you (the not looking for a job until moving to new house thing.)
I can see that you are frustrated. So was I at the time. Now Feral Forger has been living with her mother off and on, causing all kinds of havoc. But it doesnt affect me in the slightest.
Good luck getting your SD to launch, without being able to drive...
I have read most, if not all,
I have read most, if not all, of your blogs. I am mad at him and he knows it. I go to bed alone, we don't have regular "adult" time, and I am always angry. The conversations with him, typically turn into me yelling at him. The thing is, when we start arguing, he goes silent. He has always been this way, so I know that after I rip into him, he needs time to think about what was said, and then we can have a civil conversation. I blew up at her because I was just so damn frustrated at everything.
The making her pay bills thing is because she is able to pay for things because she hoards all of her money. She just graduated and got around $650 cash, which she is going to try and use to get out of getting a job. She has been doing this since she was 16. She was supposed to get a job to help her pay her phone bill. She saved all xmas and bday money so she didn't have to. She found a loophole. If we slowly start to drain that money, she will have no choice but to get a job, or go live with BM. ETA: once she gets a job, all the "extra bills" will not have to be paid anymore, she will put that money into savings. Then if she decides to quit that job, those bills start up immediately.
Wow.
All that anger. And COVID isolation on top of marital isolation is no fun.
Ok, so I am preaching to the choir!
Get her driving. Thats my only advice.
We have both tried to get her
We have both tried to get her driving. She just does not want learn. She is terrified about it even. I am not sure what either of us could do at this point. Her response now is that mommmmeee doesn't drive (shes 39 BTW and has never had a DL) and she is doing just fine, why do I have to learn? Well, if your life goal is to live in a run-down trailer, living with yoru bf and his other child, working PT at Dunkin Donuts, Pizza Hut, or some other menial job, and being support by welfare, then go for it. At least you won't rely on us anymore.
You and DH are being
You and DH are being extremely generous with your timeline. I think SD knows she won't have to do anything, she will just have to wait you out.
I have to wonder if your SD is special? If she is it might be a good idea to look into programs that can help adults with special needs live independently.
I have thought this for quite
I have thought this for quite some time, but my DH sticks his head in the sand. I have been bringing it to his attention since she was in the 2nd grade; THE 2ND DAMN GRADE! He just blew me off becasue "not everyone can be as smart as your bios." Note: my bios are very smart and set to graduate early. I took the advice on here and repeated, not my monkey not my zoo. I cannot care more about her well-being than her bios, and neither of them seem to see any huge issues.
You may be right, she is waiting us out. Well, I will be gone if things don't change and my DH is well aware that I will not tolerate this crap. I have zero issues leaving and will not hesitate when the time comes. I am really hopeful that she will get sick of our crap and constant nagging (probably more from me than DH) and choose to go live with BM.
OP, you're in luck. One of
OP, you're in luck. One of our long-time members recently made a post retelling his story of the highly effective strategy he and his wife used to get his SS to launch after high school:
https://www.steptalk.org/forum/parenting/teenage-stepchildren/burning-pl...
Has your SD ever been tested for cognitive delays/ learning disabilities? Diagnosed with any specific deficits? Did BM use drugs or alcohol while pregnant? What feedback did SD's teachers offer over the years? Has your DH ever sat down and tried to teach SD how to count money? I agree with Clove that imposing financial consequences on someone who isn't working isn't the best way to acheive your goal, AND it's going to pit you against her daaddee, too.
There are battles, and there are wars. Your goal should be to launch SD permanently without causing damage to your marriage. You need to approach this as a campaign - a mission with a series of objectives requiring strategy and tactics - and keeping your DH involved and committed is a crucial part of that.
As dumb as this girl is, instead of avoiding her you'd be better served turning her into your Chore Girl (thanks Rags!) and enrolling her in the Agitated School of Life Skills. It sounds like as with a lot of skids we read about here, she has been warehoused instead of reared - meaning her bio parents kept her fed, clothed and housed, but didn't prepare her to be a self sufficient adult. It sucks, but she still needs someone to teach her things like cooking, cleaning, laundry, budgeting, banking, shopping, driving, etc. The thing you don't want is for her to leave your house without the skills necessary to stay out. She'll become a toxic ping pong ball that bounces from mom to dad to whomever will keep her temporarily, bringing drama and needing bailouts forever.
Google "Life skills every 18-20 yo should have" and sit down with your DH to create plan together. Choose your words carefully, from a place of wanting to help SD - you're worried for her, you want to help her, you want her to be a strong, independent woman that no one can take advantage of. SD deserves to be able to make a happy life for herself, and you don't want to be selfish or hold her back. Avoid blame, and use language that will soothe his ego while getting him on board.
If you present as the bad guy, your DH will want to protect his useless lump of flesh daughter, so creating a united front is crucial. Play the long game, get her employed/driving, grin at each pathetic accomplishment, and hope she lands a job as a nanny for a family that travels year round.
I Agree
It sounds like your SD needs some training in basic life life skills. Very sad that she does not have these at her age. This doesn't seem to be her fault, but that of her parents. That being said, she is an adult now, and I don't believe she should be given reign to freeload. I think a specific plan is needed here. She might benefit from finding a literacy tutor. There are free programs for adults who are illiterate or just reading at a low level for their age. These tutors will work with their students to achieve life goals, whether that be improving reading skills, passing a citizenship test, registering to vote, etc. Maybe money skills could be addressed. She'll have a hard time finding even a minimum wage job without this basic skill. This is something that could be done immediately. Do some research to see what your local library or county offers. Hopefully even with covid these resources are available. I would try that as step one. Step two, research what possible job opportunities she is currently qualified for are available near the new house. I don't think it's unreasonable that you asked she start now. It typically takes awhile to find a job, and to go through all of the tasks to get to the point of actually working. I get how you acquiesced on this, too, though. I think researching is a good happy medium. So, okay, by move time she has a list of places to apply to once there, and a timeline for things to get done by. How these things are to get done, I don't know. It doesn't sound like she is capable of them on her own. What do you think? If not, your H will need to hold her hand a bit during the process. Not doing it for her, but with her, teaching along the way.If he is unwilling to actually do this, then who is? Here is where I think we as steps get caught sometimes. We may see what is needed, we may be willing to give it, but then we deal with the conflicting feelings towards our spouses and their exes. Why are they not giving these things to their children? And then sometimes things are made worse by their not reinforcing what you have given. So we just disengage, like you. It's a horrible place to be. And the bios are largely to blame, especially in your case, where you have been mentioning these things since 2nd grade. So many years for improvement between then and now wasted. I don't understand parents like this. I don't understand why a spouse feels okay about making their spouse out to be the bad guy for bringing these things up. It's just complete denial. I agree with Julie's plan to get your H on board. I would ask him, too, how does he see his daughter succeeding in life given the current state? What does he think needs to change to see success? But here's the worst part, he needs to want it, or else this is just an uphill battle for you. If he truly doesn't want her to succeed, why? If this issue is enough to strain your marriage, why doesn't he take action for the marriage? These might be questions to ask him, not sure about this. But they are definitely questions I was asking myself as I was reading your post. In the end, seriously consider your SD in an honest light. I have never read any of your other posts, so I am just going by this one. I love the burning platform idea posted and reposted here. I think it's an awesome strategy for those failing to launch who are doing so because they are just spoiled and entitled and enabled but fully capable. In your case, your SD might need the same approach but with some hand holding. If she is not capable due to disability and lack of guidance and instruction, then she needs these alongside discipline. She may very well be afraid and unsure of what to do. This doesn't mean she should be coddled for the rest of her life. It just means she might need some help to get to where she should be at her age. Now if she truly is capable, and just being a brat, then go full force with the burning strategy, I think. I hope you see improvement soon. And I truly hope your H opens his eyes to how to parent his child in a truly loving and active way. I say these things through the lens of someone who has worked professionally with adults with disabilities. If this is what your SD is facing, I can say that much compassion, patience, and hard work are needed. You can't just allow someone to sink or swim in this situation. You also can't deny the capacity for growth. It's a fine balance. Expectations about her capability need to be realistic, so that you know when it is appropriate to offer help, and you know when you can step back. And when your help is successful in helping her to gain more independence, then you get to take a step back further. And so it goes. But first, you need to determine once and for all what is going on with her. Either way, I think finding a tutor and getting a list of potential work places going is totally reasonable here, whatever her situation may be. Best of luck!
Thank you for your repspone.
Thank you for your repspone. A lot of what you suggested as been spoken about or done already. When talking to my SD about our expectations, she was told once she starts working we will sit down on work on budgeting and whatnot with her. We will look at the prices of apartments so she can start to plan for those costs. I have been looking at jobs she is qualified for and told DH where she can start looking. Surprisingly, there are ton of FT time jobs that require no experience and do not require money/number skills. For instance, hostess positions at many restaurants in the area we are moving. In less than one month, we will own our new house, and if he hasn't already, I will be bringing this information up to her. At this point, if I don't see pushing from her and/or progress from her, he and I will have to have "the talk."
I completely agree with you
I completely agree with you and that post from Rags is fantastic. If I had typed everything from the 2nd grade up until today, my post would have been a novel. That said, she has never been tested because DH never took her deficit seriously. He thought she would just "wake up" one day and start doing better. He has never helped her try to learn, it always came from me. I know BM drank wine occasionally, and according to DH, the doctor was aware of it and okay with it. SD did have a seizure as a baby that almost killed her; that may be the cause, but who knows. Every time she received money (bday, xmas, etc.) I would make her count what she got, which would piss my DH off (this was around the time I had one foot out the door). At this time, we had a very long talk and deciced to work on things and he promised he would do better with her. Well, he didn't and that is when I found this place and disengaged as much as possible.
Surprisingly, DH gave SD chores that started this week, but it isn't much. She sweeps and mops one day and vacuums another. (My bios are still in HS and do the dishes daily - One unloads the dishwasher, the other loads). I don't trust her to do my laundry and there isn't much more to do in honesty. All the kids have been responsible for doing their own laundry for about 7 years, as well as keeping their rooms and bathroom clean (with a once a month deep clean).
My issue is that DH and I have sat down and have a game plan, but I don't think he will follow through when the time comes. He coddles her and it drives me crazy! I have brought things up and tried to teach her (as well as my own) how to start growing up. They have been taught how to cook, how to clean, and are supposed to get jobs at 16 to learn to handle money and be responsible (car ins./gas/etc.). She found the loophole and never had to work. My bios will be 16 in two weeks and know that I am not playing that game; they will have jobs, period. They will not like me if they don't get a job. However, I have tried everything with SD. She wanted to do culinary arts and was accepted into the program her Junior year of HS, but something happened and there was a mistake on her schedule. My DH was out of time the first week of school, so I called and talked to everyone I could to get her into that class and she only lasted one fracking day! She said she just wasn't ready. Well, switching classes requires a parent signature and DH didn't batt an eye to let her drop out so soon. I vowed to stop helping after that. Over the years, I was the only one helping with homeowrk, taking her to the library for books (required AR tests, etc), and getting on her about grades, because DH just didn't give a damn. When I brought issues up to him, I was an evil and mean stepmom. So, I handed over the reigns to him and washed my hands of her. THIS is probably when I should have left, but here I am. I really don't think there is anything else I can do EXCEPT keep reiterating to my DH that we have a plan/schedule for her and he needs to stick to his guns.
I feel your pain
Agitated, I feel your pain. Just before DH got YSS out of our house I was at the end of may ability to cope. I told DH I felt like I was living with the worst room mate ever with the added bonuses of not being able to evict them and being at an age where I didn't want or financially need a room mate. I also felt that YSS was like a parasite, sucking up huge amount of my resources.
The solution was that DH told YSS it was time to live on his own. Due to his health issues, we subsidised his rent. I was ok with this compromise. If YSS had sayed I wouldn't have. I was looking at the prices of single bed room appartments to buy or rent. I was that serious about leaving.
Does your DH understand that you literally can't do this any more and are serious about alternative plans for your life? It might help him to get clarity on what he needs to do about his daughter.
I have expressed my feelings
I have expressed my feelings about this, but I don't think he takes me seriously. Then, I begin to think that she just turned 18 and needs time to save up money and get into the feel of adult life (it doesn't just happen bc you turn 18 is what I hear all the time), which obviously I know). However, this will never happen if my DH doesn't enforce the rules. His dad was the same way with him when he graduated HS. He said, I didn't work and it took my dad about 6 months before he started getting on my butt about growing up. I then tell him she has been out of HS since May, and it is about time to ride her a$$. I grew up completely different. My mom got child support (enough that if my dad could have sent it directly to me, I could have lived on my own), and she didn't buy me a damn thing. She kept a roof over my head, but at 16 y/o I bought all my own food, clothes, school supplies, toiletries, hair cuts, etc. He and I had very different childhoods and we are clashing now. We are trying to figure out how to navigate this road and find a plan we are both okay with. I just know that if he cannot follow through and enforce our plan, then I am gone for good. He gave her a timeframe (although I am a tad upset about it, I can live with it for now), BUT after that timeframe has passed, which is coming up very quickly, then it is open season and he will know exactly what needs to be done otherwise this marriage is over.
You've been a member for
You've been a member for three years, so I'm not going to blow smoke. There are only so many things left to try, and at a certain point you're going to be out of compassion and f@&ks to give.
Has anyone ever told your SD directly that she won't be allowed to live there indefinitely? Just curious.
Requirements and expectations need to be steadily increased, even if that means SD is forced to leave the house each morning to job hunt full time. At least that way you'll be compelling her to get out of her safe space. Continue to take away her creature comforts - limit her phone data, no internet except in the evenings for your bios' homework, no cable, etc - and speak openly about her "goal" of independence. Drag that problem right out into the open and make all the kids launching successfully part of family culture.
I'd consider getting back into marriage counseling. You need a third party who will also apply pressure to your H. SD isn't the only one who needs a burning platform, and you need to find new buttons to push that will compel your H to stop crippling his daughter and engage in helping her.
Lastly, you might consider bypassing your H entirely and taking full control. Some SMs have had success with this in situations where their SO is just straight up incapable of doing what is required, but it only works with men who won't resist you doing so. We've also had SMs who've matter of factly told their Hs that either they launch their kids themselves or SM will, and the way she does it won't be pretty.
Stick to your guns, OP. You're dealing with two troubled people who've built up a toolbox of avoidance behaviors, so keep seeking your own new tools to effect change.
Thank you. I have told her
Thank you. I have told her repeatedly, as well as my own, that they will NOT live in my house forever. She has been told a few times over the course of the past month (until I stopped putting myself in the middle). However, once we move, my DH knows that I will be speaking my mind about her lack of motivation if he chooses to ignore it. The idea of her not allowed in the house while we are working is also a great idea (this one my DH will demand won't happen though). Is poor princess doesn't drive and will not be able to walk everywhere she needs to go. **GAG ME**
I think counseling is a great idea. I will bring it up to DH.