Do Parents really know the truth or not
When a spouse or significant other tells their partner how awful their kid or kids are does this go in one ear and out the other so to speak? Does the partner whether it be a mom od dad already know the truth? How many of you know for sure you are the first to try to open your partner's eyes about their kids intolerable behavior and/or their failed parenting? I had someone tell me that I never had to tell my ex the outright truth about his adult kids's behavior because he already knows the truth. I have wondered if this was accurate. I mean the fact he lied about the kind of adult kids he had during our dating phase and early part of our relationship does mean something right? Like perhaps I wasn't the first to call him out on it. What are others experiences and/or thoughts?
Yes, they know already but
Yes, they know already but they will throw you under the bus to keep it hid because to deal with it they would then have to face their failed parenting.
So they hide it to protect
So they hide it to protect themselves in terms of their failed parenting and not so much to protect their adult kids?
Oh forgot to mention they
Oh forgot to mention they will even destroy evidence of their bad behavior to perpetuate the myth that their spawn are perfect.
The old sayings...
Turning a blind eye or Turning a deaf ear to anything they don't want to believe as truth, is the perfect saying for any Disney Parent. When SD38(Leech) was young, DAH made every excuses in the book about his precious snowflake. She wasn't lying, she was just making up a story. She wouldn't talk that way to anyone, she respects all adults. The list could go on and on. If that didn't suit his purpose, then he would get defensive, about how I hated his daughter. It took 30+ years for my DAH to finally see the light, to what a POS his daughter truly is. The eye opener for my DAH was Leech having the SGD10. DAH was so protective of SGD10, that he didn't want her to end up like Leech.
24 years as a SM, do you
24 years as a SM, do you think if your SD had not had SGD that your DH would have still been in denial? At what point does the denial become pathological? My ex would act completely stupid when it came to some the obvious things his youngest daughter would do. I just couldn't believe the extent of it at times. It was just sickening.
They might not know the terms
Like emotional incest or miniwife...or that these things are abuse or at least crippling to the kids... then they would have to face their own issues as to why they cause their children to become like this...maybe they have no adult friends, maybe they were wounded as a child themself and never healed it (abuse carries on thru generations)... and to learn that not only have you been a crappy parent, but have actually abused and warped your kids...that's hard for ppl to swallow. I hope they DO choose the path toward healing..
Alas, none of us likes to own up to our failures especially when it comes to our kids
Jojo4124, you said "then they
Jojo4124, you said "then they would have to face their own issues as to why they cause their children to become like this." Do you think most of them actually have a clue about this? In the beginning I think my ex thought he was helping them. But as time went on I started to realize he was trying to purchase love from them. They would contact him for money then he would get a bad attitude about it. However he would still give in to them. It was quite ridiculous.
Movingon...
I don't know. Maybe they kind of do if they themselves weren't raised that way...for example I asked my dh if HIS dad would put up with an adult child not paying bills or acting like a 12 year old pouting n huffing when asked to do a chore. My dh immediately said no, they would have had consequences for disrespect. I just looked at him and raised my eyebrows. I think he realized that he was enabling a lazy, mooching child...but then chose to continue on as always.
I think as sms we can help bring enlightenment. But the choice to admit his ball less parenting, such parenting that his own deceased father would be ashamed of, and change it , will take a lot of work because the enmeshment is so deep. So he chooses to go with whats comfortable.
I think maybe these parents don't know fully...and if they ever question whether they are not parenting well I think they shove those thoughts away and continue the charade. I don't think my dh understands that he has crippled his kids and actually abused them, as in my case, emotional incest is abuse. For him to face this will NOT be fun or easy but it is my reqirement ...heal or I am out. I won't pretend I don't see the sick dance going on that is hurting his kids, me, and probably will hurt the kids' future relationships ans kids.
I might lose, but I am gambling that He will choose to heal. My dh said he will read the Emotional Incest book that is on its way with me, and we have marriage counsel set up for Sept.
I WILL poke the psychological elephant in the room, say that the emperor has no clothes on. See how they react with the info. If they don't change, I know I tried to help healing happen while at the same time not allowing myself to eat tgeir crap sandwiches and live with emotional incest in my home. Because to me his incest with his dd is adultery on me.
These dysfunctional families may not know, but maybe God puts us sms in their lives to shine light on their darkness and ONCE THEY KNOW FOR SURE what they are doing, then the burden to either heal n change...or to continue the abuse...is on them.
If the abuse/incest/adultery continues after my dh understand what he is doing, of course I will leave because now I know that he knows yet continues.
So in conclusion lol sorry so long, I say treat them as if they don't know...inform them of the dynamic and pain it causes all involved...then see how they act after YOU KNOW they know
I didn't know about miniwife syndrome til i came here but i knew something was wrong. This grouo gave me the name for it and now I have tools to heal. Same with the incest. I pray for healing for all!! It is possible!!!
Moving on, also
For your dh, sounds like the kids use him as an atm, he feels used and gets grumpy but maybe feels if he says NO to them that he doesn't want to deal with their bad attitudes, fits, manipulations, etc.
Tough love is a good term. Boundaries is a great book. Maybe ask hubby why he feels grumpy when they ask him for $. Or maybe say no one time n see what happens. Could be guilty dad syndrome...could be he IS buying their love and is ok with that...that they love him for his money and not for himself. If they really love HIM, they will respect his no. Hope the best 4 u!
ATM Dad
One time, my DH admitted that if he said something negative, SD58 would cease contact. I laughed. Who else is going to give her money? What a joke.
It is sad
It's like the kids are making them pay for their crappy parenting. And they willingly pay, and pay.
Jojo4124, don't apologize for
Jojo4124, don't apologize for your comment being long. I enjoyed reading it. It was insightful and really got me thinking. From the way my ex talked about being raised, he didn't learn this parenting style from his parents. I met some of his family and the ones who have adult kids, their adilt kids seem to be independent. Their are some blended families in his family and the adult kids seemed to be kind and respectful towards their stepparents. I don't fully understand what the underlying problem is in that he seems to be the only one with this sick dynamic with his adult kids. None of them work enough to take care of themselves and all live with other people. The ones who have kids can't afford to take care of them. He has a daughter who has been in college for years, but not progressing and lies and manipulates him to get money. They live in a different state and he has seen them in many years. However, they regularly call and ask for money. One is also very disrespectful and verbally abuses him. Again, according to him this is not how he was raised. His parent style is horrible because he really doesn't parent and is actually teaching them it is ok to be abusive. I never knew people treated their parents like that until meeting him. My adult kids are independent. I actually parented them. I also showed tough love when needed. So to see my ex allow his adult kids to use, abuse, and treat him like dog poop was frustrating. I broke up with him. How old are your skids? How do they treat your DH and you? Are you new to the message boards? I will have to take a look at your post. It sounds like you are lucky your dh is willing to try.
Do you feel
More peaceful now that you left that family dynamic?
I often think how my life would be if I left. Get home from work to a peaceful home...eat dinner...relaaaax. No drama. No hyperviligence like trying to catch sneaky 23yo SD who lives with us for free (works pt n spends her money partying n travelling...does no chores etc) and sneaky dh ...I currently suspect they are involved in some type of actual incest.
Dh has 23 yo triplets ...one dd lives with us, the other dd may move in with us in 2 months, the boy lives with his mom. Dh has a 28yo son who is in the military. Both boys have one kid and a failed marriage each. Both dds are supported financially by dadddeeee, from birth. Neither dd has a boyfriend even tho they are pretty.
Sad that these men became parents like this despite how they were raised. I totally blame the parents for how their kids are.
Dhs kids are actually nice ppl and nice to me. Part of that is because they know I am not gonna get any of dad's money or assets as he willed half to the kids n half to the ex. I deal with the thought that he still loves his narcissistic ex. He has told his dd that lives with us that she reminds him of her mom. I suspect physical incest too.
Dhs dds totally disrespect him. If he DOES ask them to do a chore like vacuum, their act like 12 yo, throw up their hands n huff...then still don't do the chore.
I refuse to let my heart get close to his kids. I stay polite. But when/if dh starts healing n changing, I will b prepared for the crap to hit the fan.
I am hoping for the best, but also getting info from here and have a plan to get out if things don't change or get worse.
Crazy thing is that dh has a heart of gold and shows me he loves me. I think he has a harem complex, lol. But I will leave in a second if he doesn't do the work to recognize his abuse of his kids and actively change.
Yes I am new here and so thankful for this forum! I hope peace n healing for you!
Did I read that correctly? He
Did I read that correctly? He is leaving half to his EX WIFE and half to his kids in his will??? What ??? You can't be serious?
Yup
Dh says he doesn't love his narcissistic ex but gives her half his salary, for life, plus pays 600 a month on her debts, plus pays for the huge life ins. policy she is beneficiary of. The kids get his 401k.
I don't care what he does with his money but because he gives her so much it seems he still loves her. I kniw I can never change that.
He lives on 35% of his income plus a recent inheritance. I do not and will not contribute financially because to me that is supporting his ex. He can pay all the bills. I do groceries etc. But if he can pay his ex so much, yet wants to be married to me, he can pay my way, while I save my money in case the day comes I leave.
I have zero respect for him. And I knew none of this til 3 months ago when I married him.
I think he married me to have a 'cover'...to appear normal while he pines for ex and plays out his incestual behaviors with his dds acting like they are his ex.
At this point I hope for change, but don't expect it. I don't want the embarrassment of a failed marriage after only 3 months. So I will hope, love as best I can, learn, and save my money
I don't want the
I don't want the embarrassment of a failed marriage after only 3 months
I would be looking into getting an annulment.
I would rather be divorced after 3 months, than continue being someone's "cover", while he pines for his ex. How demeaning.
Now that you know what the deal really is, get out of the deal.
I have found ...
... that parents in general--mothers and fathers alike--are blind to and defensive about their children's faults. It does not take a divorce to set this dysfunction in motion. I suspect that people who behave this way are confused about where their children end and they begin; they have boundary issues and over-identify with their kids. Add to this a man creepily attracted to his daughters, who obviously share quite a few characteristics with a woman who once caught his eye. Throw in a dash of "love me, love my dog," and you have a huge mess on your hands, which frankly you should have had the sense to stay the hell away from to begin with.
But here you are, trying to live with someone who is oblivious to the fact that they are ruining their children and causing misery to other adults who have to deal with the brats--partners, teachers, babysitters, old ladies in cross walks, etc. I don't think there's a solution other than the offending parent figuring himself or herself out--hah!--or a third party (that would be you reading this, I'm afraid) constantly calling out the offender until it stops. Often it never does.
The only question is, are you willing to live with it?
With my ex, he intentionally
With my ex, he intentionally lied about this sick dynamic he has with his adult kids. It got to the point where he would actually sit there and try to find ways to get handouts for them. It was kind of like where the heck is his self respect and pride? What's the issue he didn't think his adult kids should work like a ton of other young adults their age? I mean just so pathetic.
Lying not good
But my dh lies by omitting info.
Sorry he lied to you, is that the only way these ppl can get an adult partner, by deceiving them?
Your ex might have guilt as a dad for not being there enough when the kids were little, etc... Could be a million reasons why, but how dare these ppl expect a partner to play their game?
The guilt may be part of it.
The guilt may be part of it. However, I told him that is his problem not mine. Im not living a dysfunctional life because of your guilt or whatever reason that occurred long before we even met. I wasn't settling for that. I even told him that since his life is such a big mess he should stay single rather than expect the woman in his life to settle. He tried a bunch of stuff to get me back into a relationship with him. However, his actions weren't matching up with his words. This was a big mess that I didn't want to be apart of my life. An unnecessary burden.
Excellent points
Yes...we sms can be a catalyst to change these dynamics as WE learn why the dynamic causes US pain...then share the info. Once they KNOW, its on them to change or not. For me, if he chooses to change then I stay. If not, then whats the point of being hurt by soneone who KNOWS he is doing it, choosing to... is how I feel about it.
Mine had already been told by
Mine had already been told by an ex. I would not say she fears facing up to her incompetent parenting...what she fears is SD herself. She has turned into such an aggressive, devious, manipulative cry baby of an adult that if she now dare to stand up to her she will create a s**tstorm which will last until DW sees the error of her ways and falls into line.
Goneforsix, that is horrible.
Goneforsix, that is horrible. How old is your SD? That couldn't be my adult kid, because if she was 18 or over I would make her find a new place to live. Smh
And cutting off dd
Seems to not be an option right? Its normal to cut off narcissistic or abusive ppl. So these parents created little narcissists then don't have the tools to deal with how they are treated... If some other person like a coworker treated them like that, would they give them money n invite them into their house? No. With a narcissist you have to go no contact if you want peace. Sad
A week ago DP witnessed first
A week ago DP witnessed first hand how atrociously his darling little angel treats other kids. He had a talk to her at the time and has since forgotten all about it. So yeah, he knows but he brushes every misbehaviour off as a one off incident that's in the past so doesn't matter anymore.
I think they know, but there
I think they know, but there's a huge element of denial. It requires them to admit the faults in their perfect spawn and their own parenting. It took a complete breakdown in SD and I's relationship for DH to wake up and smell the coffee.
Most of the time, this type
Most of the time, this type of parenting meets the parent's needs. They feel like good parents who would do anything for their children. Giving and giving and never setting limits reduces the parent's short-term anxiety about losing the kids.
It's the same with parents who enable drug addiction - they do it because it eases their anxiety about losing their kids. They can't see the long-term consequences, or if they can see them, they can't deal with their negative feelings in the short-term, so they keep on enabling.
The men who know full well that they are being used as ATMs, but continue anyway fall in this camp. They can't deal with the anxiety of saying "NO" and possibly losing their kids, so they keep on with a destructive dynamic that hurts everyone long-term.
Yes, on some level they know this isn't okay, but they can't stop.
Tog redux, you are right the
Tog redux, you are right the destructive dynamic does hurt everyone long-term. My ex's youngest daughter has been in college, in some instances long enough to have a master's degree, yet hasn't even made it past her second year of college. Someone here on the message boards told me my ex's youngest daughter would likely be the perpetual student. That definitely seems to be the case. One of his other adult kids is in legal trouble again. The adult kids who have kids of their own can't afford to take care of them, regularly call him for financial help, yet are still having kids. What a mess. And the thing is when I haven't seen my ex in a long time, and then do see him, he looks like the life is being sucked out of him. In my opinion it is much more easier to tell Adult Skids no than to allow them to take that much of a negative toll on you and your health.
Yes they know, but they will NEVER admit it or own up to it
and I've said that many times. Admission=failed parenting. They will never allow that to come out and be exposed. Rather, they draw people in like "us" who think they are good people, however, until issues are addressed and a plan of action is in place and consistent, nothing changes. Only the names and faces change. Wives are interchangeable like "Mr. Potato Head" parts, but kids are here to stay FOREVER, no matter how manipulative or horrible. They've been doing this "dance of dysfunction" long before any of us ever met them.
They are careful to keep their sick mess under wraps until they know they have you. By then, for many it is too late(for whatever reasons; shame of ending the relationship, too many years invested etc.) but lucky for you that you found this site and stopped it before the crazy train jumped the tracks.