How do you explain CS to the stepkids without feeling awful?

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I feel like banging my head against the wall. I have mentioned before about how SS comes here more then he is supposed to and how we are buying things for basically BM's household as well.

Well, we had him last weekend again. We weren't supposed to. My husband got the idea to leave to a park early in the morning before BM does her drive by drop off.

But we ran into BM on our way down the country lane we live on. SS basically got out of her car and got into ours. Are we really supposed to wake up at 6 am on a freaking Saturday to make her keep SS on her scheduled days?

So that was extra meals, life jacket rental for SS. I know it sounds petty but all this really adds up. And again, SS asks my husband in the car that he can't believe my husband would plan a park visit without him.

It's like he knows exactly what buttons to push to make my husband feel like crap.

On Sunday, after SS ate dinner at our home, BM messages that she is coming to pick him up. BM texted him to make sure he ate so she wouldn't have to cook for him.

SS sees that we bought Nutella so he proceeds to make three Nutella sandwiches so he can eat them at his mother's house. He also grabbed 4 caprisun drinks.

This happens often by the way. BM refuses to buy any "treat" food for SS so he just takes stuff from our house.

My husband was just complaining the other day that our grocery bill was too high so I point out to him in private that this is why.

So my husband tries to have a talk to SS again about how much he pays in CS and that SS cannot take food and clothes from our home anymore. SS starts crying and that he just wanted to take a few for the week and it wasn't fair.

Of course my husband feels bad. Who wants to tell their kid they can't eat something?

SS shuts himself in his room. He refuses to eat the cake for dessert that the kids were excited about all freaking day. He goes home without the sandwiches and caprisuns even though my husband said he can take them this time.

Both my husband and I couldn't sleep that night. I honestly hate doing stuff like that with food. I grew up really poor and I hate the feeling of being denied food.

Today BM texted my husband and asked him why SS is saying he doesn't want to come over anymore. He has never said that and it's my husband's biggest fear. And of course she has also involved my MIL who I can expect a call from today.

I thought my husband was very kind in his explanation but clearly it backfired.

How else do you do approach this topic?

Document

Are you in a state where the number of days dad has the kid affects child support? Document days and go back to court.

We have. We had a journal for

We have. We had a journal for one year. The judge basically said it was he said/she said, took BM's word, increased support and kept visitation the same.

Judges dont 'basically" say

Judges dont 'basically" say anything.

What is your deal exactly?

What is your deal exactly? Projecting your own insecurities about your husband onto mine?

Judges can say a lot of ridiculous things.

OK, I know this is not a

OK, I know this is not a laughing matter, but I did chuckle at the image of you guys frantically trying to drive away at 6 am and running into BM coming down the road. Why did you guys stop? How did she know you'd be leaving at 6 am? Dumb luck, or a spy in your house?

I think it's perfectly reasonable to tell him he can't take 3 sandwiches and 4 drinks. Just broken record it - "One drink and one sandwich, SS," (DH should do this), over and over and over. That has nothing to do with CS, just common courtesy and rules of the house.

As for the whining about "planning things without him," the answer is - YES, we do things for fun on the weekends you aren't here. That's life. Get over it. That shouldn't make DH feel guilty at all.

The rest, I think you have to put up with, unfortunately. Or, he has to get the balls to tell BM NO, I'm bringing him back now, and endure the guilt trip she will give him.

We actually left at 8 30

We actually left at 8 30 because she normally drops him off at 9. But she was a littler early today and SS basically yelled out the window and was waving while they were driving up.

My husband gets a quadruple whammy of guilt from BM, SS, his father and his mother. He can't stand up to it. I feel like we waited too long to enforce these things and now it's out of control.

Yes, that's the real issue

Yes, that's the real issue here. He lets everyone manipulate him. SS's little game of sulking and refusing to eat cake because he didn't get his way is just pure manipulation.

Might he be PAS'd? Yep, he's on his way - your saving grace is that BM doesn't even want him around the time she has him, she's sure as hell not going to cut him off from going over there at all.

If DH doesn't act like someone people can respect, he will keep getting this treatment. You guys should have just waved back out the window at SS and kept going. Tell him later that you had plans and didn't realize BM was going there to drop him off, as it was her weekend. Let him pout and sulk.

And tell BM to cut it out. If she berates him on the phone with SS in the background, he can yell, "Love you SS! Gotta go!" and hang up.

Can't be walked on if you aren't laying on the ground.

Oh man. THhe very thought of

Oh man. THhe very thought of us coninuing to drive off and the resulting drama is giving me nightmares.

The whole situation is very dysfunctional and there too many parties involved in this mess.

My husband is so used to being beaten down by everyone and the courts I think he will be lying down forever.

Right - so then you and he

Right - so then you and he just have to accept this behavior if he isn't willing to stand up to her. If he set limits on her, yes, the drama would escalate - for a while. But then it would subside and go away and you would have no more extra visits.

My husband probably knows

My husband probably knows that by taking a stand that BM will just escalate and he will lose SS. I think he needs to decide when enough is enough for him.

I think it's time to file for

I think it's time to file for modification again. Ask for more time with SS. Even if you do it without representation knowing you won't win, I think that would paint a clear picture to your SS that DH wants him, but can't afford to not have him.

Then, everytime SS wants to take something:

"SS, if you want Nutella at home, you need to ask her to buy it for you. If she won't, I can't make her buy it for you in her home. Her home, her rules."

"No, SS, you can't take food to your Mom's house. If you would like to make a sandwich before you go, you can. However, just as your mom doesn't get to tell me what I can serve you here, I can't tell her what she serves you there."

And when he asks about trips:

"SS, we take trips when you are here. However, when you aren't here, I also take trips. And go to work. And take care of your siblings. If you want to do something on the weekends with your Mom, you need to tell her that."

"SS, I am happy to take you on trips. Why do you think BM doesn't want to take you on trips, or keep you, on her weekends with you?"

I am not usually pro-involving the kids, but SS is actively being PASed out. Your DH needs to fight back with logic. He needs to explain that he is responsible for taking care of SS in HIS house, and he pays CS so BM can take care of SS in HER house. That, like DH, BM also needs to work and provide for SS. That she should have her own weekends and trips with SS. That CS helps pay for those trips between SS and BM, and if she isn't using the CS to make SS's life similar to what he has with DH, that DH can't do anything about that.

And, when DH tries to get the court to give him more time that BM won't give it to him. He can explain that the more time BM gets on paper, the more money she gets. That when she gives SS to DH, he doesn't get that money back. Eventually, DH won't have money to take SS anywhere or do fun stuff because his money goes to BM to do those things with SS, and if she doesn't do it, then the money just isn't there.

My DH had to have a similar conversation with OSS. It wasn't fun, but even at a young age, OSS understood. Kids are smart, so just give him the facts. Let him come to his own conclusions. BM is banking on your DH being silent, and that approach is working against DH. The more level-headed and matter-of-fact he is about it, the worse it will look on BM.

Or he'll be PASed. And he's already on that path, so you all have very little to lose now.

This

I am not normally in favor of discussing CS with children, but OP's situation warrants it, imho.

It's wierd. SHe is PASing but

It's wierd. SHe is PASing but she is also dumping him at our place whenever she wants.

And she has SS convinced that my husband should keep spending money on him because he does on our kids together. Even after he has seen how much my husband pays in support. SS is just too brainwashed.

Not all alienated kids cut

Not all alienated kids cut off contact with the other parent. Some stick around being miserable and nasty to that parent.

Yep - they want the alienated

Yep - they want the alienated parent to feel the pain they feel from the alienator parent.

At 13, your DH doesn't need to skirt the issue. He can be blunt and tell SS how it is. At that point, if SS chooses to be obstinent, it's because he WANTS to bury his head in the sand. He doesn't WANT to believe that his MOTY GUBM is trying to hurt him. And yes, your DH may lose his son temporarily or permanently.

PAS is very real and very damaging. All your DH can do is show your SS that he cares and will fight for him. Your SS has to choose if he believe your DH's intentions or not.

My SS is 18 and still has

My SS is 18 and still has zero clues about BM (or pretends not to). It's no better than when he was totally alienated for over three years. He's still a BM-bot.

Although PAS usually ends in

Although PAS usually ends in not seeing one parent it's about control and feeling wanted/ favored. I see quite a few stories where kids get dumped because parenting is inconvenient. In my situation once BM felt SD was old enough to stay home alone and no longer needed us we no longer saw SD at all.

you don't mention how old SS

you don't mention how old SS is but sounds like he is ready for the talk about mom's house and dad's house and how they can be different and that's ok.

How mom spends the CS is out of dad's control, he can show paperwork showing the amount and how it gets to his mom and then after that, if he has a quesion about how mom runs her house, he needs to ask her, not take from you house.

Giving the boy facts and teaching him to think critically is the way to handle this. It gives the boy life skills and when he starts quizzing BM on her choices, also annoys her. (a great thing to do! lol) "gee mom, dad gives you $$$in child support, why can't I have Nutella at your house?"

DH does no good for his son to teach him that men need to put up with poor treatment and are only good for money. As for the pass by, wave and keep going. SS and BM both need to know that DH has a life separate from them , with you and SS isn't a part of that life. New training for SS and BM. Eventually SS will grow up and move on. Remind DH of that when the guilt sets in. Seeing adults have fun and freedom is a good motivator to grow up and become an adult. Give the kid everything now and he will flounder instead of launch. What's the point of growing up when its given to me free? Did you and DH tag along with your parents for everything when growing up? I didn't with mine.

The other ways to get DH with the program are great times alone, great sex, and making him feel the burn of spending too much money on SS. The marriage he is in now should be his first priority, with SS being his first responsiblity.

He just turned 13. I think

He just turned 13. I think the fact that we have our own two kids is what 's complicating matters.

And BM has put it in SS's head that my husband is doing more and cares more for our kids. I hate that woman.

She won't take him anywhere but won't give up visitation. My blood is boiling.

You say BM doesn't buy him

You say BM doesn't buy him any treats. Is that a financial thing or is she just trying to keep things healthy? I ask because if she doesnt want junk food in her house, then your DH should put a hard stop on his son taking any food. He can tell him that he needs to respect his mom's rules at her house. I agree that your DH shouldnt feel guilty. His son is playing a manipulation game Nd he is winning.

It seems to me that your DH needs to grow a spine. If BM drops SS off again on her time, he needs to call her back to get him or drop him off at her house. Then he should turn his phone off. She keeps doing this because he lets her.

She just doesn't care. She

She just doesn't care. She goes out to eat with her friends and bf all the time.

And she probably knows my husband will end up provinding stuff anyway.

If only he would grow a spine. He would never drop SS back.

I don't know how old he is

but he probably won't understand child support. Could you do something like this to address the snacks/food? empty one of the fridge bins and put stuff that is specifically for him in there? tell him that it's only going to be full once a month or once every 2 weeks and that if he chooses to go through it all at once then there is no more until next month. If he's getting to young teen age, then they eat like crazy people. my son will eat a pizza then a box of cereal. I quit buying any junk/sweet food and have fruit in the house because couldn't keep up lol. I have 2 teens that love ramen noodles, I know nutritionally they are not great but they are cheap for an in-between meal that they can cook themselves. other than that i have veg/fruit and stuff that has to be physically cooked and since most teens are lazy they don't want to have to cook.

He is 13. He should know by

He is 13. He should know by now. But BM just has him brainwashed. It's not even that he is hungry. He wanted to take stuff for the week. BM is too lazy to do grocery shopping more than the bare minimum and probably expects him to get it from our place. She is very high conflict.

Stop buying junk at your

Stop buying junk at your house. If you're having money troubles, buying junk is a waste of money. Capri suns are expensive crap.

Our kids are very active and

Our kids are very active and healthy and it is entirely my right to buy them treats.

And no, we son't have money troubles. I have split finances. But my husband is finding it more and more difficult to fund his half of extra stuff, which affects me.

And why does your husband

And why does your husband keep allowing this to happen?

I remember that you wrote previously, that the Judge told dh he should be happy for the extra time with his son so no extra credit for massive additional over nights. He didnt say dh was required to accept his son, right?

Often I wonder that too. It's

Often I wonder that too. It's a lot of misplaced guilt i think.

I know all too well about the

I know all too well about the guilt and the irrational behavior because of it. I'm sorry you are going through it.

At 13 your SS is old enough

At 13 your SS is old enough to have certain rules explained to him.
Things at your house, stay at your house.
It is simple enough to understand.
He can have food at your house - not take snacks from the house to his BMs.
It boils down to respect for your things at your home.

This child is old enough to understand that he lives in two homes.
If there is neglect in what BM provides whilst he is under her care, I am sure she can explain it to CPS.
Your DH needs to grow a backbone with both SS and his ex and overcome his guilt which is causing more harm than good.

To try and get to the root of

To try and get to the root of this issue is addressing why your H is so guilt ridden? To h@ll with what his mother, BM, or anyone else says or thinks. His inaction to put his foot down is causing issues in your marriage and with him being respected as a parent. Every time SS does something you do not agree with..... like taking 3 nutella sandwiches, just say no. You can only take one and thats it. If he's going to pout and be upset about it ....oh well he'll get over it! If your H always gives in every time he feels his son is feeling slighted, you are both in for a long miserable time with this spoiled kid.

What do you think this shows your two other kids? What does this teach them and what example is your H setting for them?

IF your husband has guilt for

IF your husband has guilt for ending his miserable marriage with his ex wife (or ex gf) then he should go back with her.

Sure sounds like he wants to---to me.

Sorry for your troubles *as one poster sometimes writes*

(stepping out of this --???)

Fathers often feel guilty

Fathers often feel guilty about divorcing mostly beacuse of seeing their kids less. My own husband feels endless guilt that his kids had to be raised by his monster of an ex.

It's quite rude of you to insinuate otherwise.

Exactly. What was up with

Exactly. What was up with that comment?

I think it's less guilt than

I think it's less guilt than it is fear - he's afraid of what will happen if he sets limits on SS and on BM. And BM knows that.

So if he can't find the strength to do that, I think you guys just have to figure out how to support SS on those extra days. But I would suggest making sure that in a nice way, SS knows that DH is always there for him on BM's time. He may dismiss it, but maybe it will stay in his head for the future.

So when he whines about how things are planned without him, your SO can say, warmly, "You know SS, this is the weekend we didn't expect you here, so yes, we made plans without you. We are always glad to see you, but you are aware that this is the weekend your mom is scheduled to have you, right?"

SS: Grumble, grumble, don't love me, grumble

DH: Have you noticed that Mom often drops you off here on her weekends? Again, I love you and I'm happy to have you here, but our plan says this is mom's weekend. Why do you think Mom drops you off here so much?

SS: She's busy! She needs a break! She's mother of the year! You're mean and bad!

DH: OK, just wondered if you noticed.

Combating alienation takes skill and has to be done without badmouthing BM. It has to done as a way to make the kid use critical thinking.

That's actually a great

That's actually a great tactic. We have just accepted it for it is now and never mention anything about SS being here extra. Of course, we never want to badmouth the BM. But maybe make it clear to him that we are having him on time that is hers.

That was really good advice thank you.

The other thing is, he can't

The other thing is, he can't stop parenting out of fear. He has to continue to set the same limits your kids would get around taking too much food, etc. And if he says, "You spend more money on these other two kids!" DH can again use the "Socratic Questioning" method to get him to think:

DH: SS, who are your parents?

SS: You and Mom

DH: And who are half-sister and half-brother's parents?

SS: You and annoyedSmom.

DH: Right - so who spends their money on you?

SS: You and Mom?

DH: Right! So you have stuff at both houses, right? Food and clothes? How many houses do half-sister and half-brother have? Who buys their stuff?

Etc, etc. Get him to think.