Welcome back pluto.... get your head outta Uranus
Well someone suggested I take a look at Welcome Back Pluto; Chapter 6. I did. At the risk of getting totally flamed here.....what a load of crap!
It's not like I don't believe in PAS or MMS. I most certainly do. I just don't like some sing-songy BS about how the rejected parent should be doing A...B...C... Plus, I noticed that this particular Chapter was very inconsistent. Do this, and 2 minutes later.. don't do this. And exactly where is the kids responsibility in how they treat their parents? Sounds like a boatload of excuses for piss poor behavior. Maybe I just don't get it. Maybe I should watch the entire series (kinda thinking I'd rather have acid thrown in my face.) 
Maybe...maybe...maybe.
Flame away.
*Note* If I don't respond right away, it's b/c I have 4 dogs to bathe, 8 ears to clean, and 16 feet that need pedicures today, lol.
Let's keep name calling to a minimum 
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Comments
NOT flaming at all. Totally
NOT flaming at all. Totally agreeing with you so flame me too.
Thanks BFK!
Thanks BFK!
Sounds like "Divorce Poison"
Sounds like "Divorce Poison" would be the better book on PAS.
These are what I call
These are what I call "reference books" not advice books. Most situations that I read / see are far beyond anything that has been wrote in these various books. (and I read them all)
I used to go back and forth to many of them, yet they did not quite have what I was looking for. There should be a new, more "realistic" book written.
It is not as easy as " A-B-C-" in most cases. That would be nice, but not realistic.
"There should be a new, more
"There should be a new, more "realistic" book written."
Agreed and it should probably be written by step-parents!
I do believe " StepMonster"
I do believe " StepMonster" was authored by a SM: Wednesday Martin
Not sure about the other "traditional" readings / books though? :?
StepMonster is an awesome
StepMonster is an awesome book. I loved it. My SM sent it to me when she heard that I was involved with a man w/kids and a psycho BM. I really love that woman.
Wish I had read the entire thing. Just read enough to know that I am staying as far away as possible, lmao. 
http://www.youtube.com/watch?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6Puy0hjtedU
For reference.... and anyone interested in watching this little doozy. :sick:
I understand the video is
I understand the video is geared toward the kids. As to whether it teaches the kid how to handle being in the middle of a PAS situation or helps them to understand the feelings of the rejected parent is hugely debatable... in my personal opinion.
If you think about it, the video is a contradiction of sorts. How many brainwashed kids realize that their actions are hurting the alienated parent? How many actually know what an alienated parent is? How many kids know they are brainwashed? And if they aren't aware, then how would they ever come across this video? The alienated parent, correct? But wait.... the kid is brainwashed so why would the the kid believe anything the alienated parent says or does? You get my point. Also, as the kid ages, he/she will begin to see the inconsistencies of the alienators words vs. the actions of the alienated. I'm sure that in many cases, the kid doesn't necessarily even believe the PASer over the rejected parent. They simply fear the wrath of the PASer should they attempt a realtionship with the other parent. Add to the fact that the video is inconsistent as to just what a rejected parent should do. Example: Sometimes walking away is necessary to keep the damage at a minimum. Then it is said that walking away could produce even worse results to the childs psyche. As I stated INCONSISTENT. The video even talks about the importance of being consistent. See my point?
I honestly think the public at large does believe PAS and MMS occurs. It's the court systems and many mental health care professionals who refuse to accept it as a legitimate concern/occurence. They don't like to believe that some people are just plain born evil either but, it's true.
I guess what my point is/was... if we need to educate about PAS, then shouldn't we at least be sending a consistent message? Shouldn't we at times forgo the feel good, peaceful vibey thing and just be honest with these kids. Maybe this song and dance routine is what's most harmful to them anyway. Maybe the alienated parent needs to be more like the PASer (minus the mind fuck games.) There was a point in time when a kid could fall down, skin their knee, and NOT require a trip to the ER. When a beloved family pet could pass away, and the kid NOT require 52 weeks of therapy. What happened to simply being HONEST with kids? Kids are more resilient than many parents want to think these days. Somehow, that gets conveniently forgotten.
You may be mistaken and think I don't believe in PAS. I most certainly do. I just don't see why we are still being forced to deal with it the way DR. Spock would have wanted us to.
As far as my 'type of attitude' goes. Sorry, I'm old school and from what I'm seeing out there with these spoiled and entitled kids, more parents NEED to be.
Wow! It seems to me that
Wow! :jawdrop: It seems to me that YOU are the one with the issue here. Exactly WHERE did I state ANYTHING in regards to slapping kids???? If that's YOUR idea of old school, you are in serious need of therapy lady. When I say 'old school' I meant not for all this coddling type behavior.... 'wipe your ass and you nose until you're 20 yrs. old. OMG, you poor thing, you don't have a brand new _____ &______& _______ CRAP!' In old school, kids were given what they EARNED not what they frigging demanded b/c they were taught that they somehow have the right to demand ANY damn thing THEY decide. Good grief!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
And the GD chapter 6 part of that GD video is frigging INCONSISTENT! PERIOD!
Oh my, is what I've written somehow proof that I'm abusive or back up the abuse of children being acceptable??? Whatever lady. You don't know me from adam and getting in to a pissing contest with me isn't going to work. Not on MY blog. If I don't allow my 135 lb Rottie to bully me, I won't be allowing you to either. Flame away, just come back when you've mastered reading comprehension.
^^^^This^^^^ Exactly my
^^^^This^^^^ Exactly my point. Very well said. I 'respectfully' agree!
"It seems reference to "old
"It seems reference to "old school" typically refers to physical punishment."
This is merely YOUR perception. An incorrect one, I might add.
"But please explain, how are you going to give a kid something that was earned while dealing with PAS???"
It's not necessarily a matter of giving a PAS'd kid something that was earned. It's more about NOT GIVING INTO THE PAS itself, by turning to 'guilty-parent' behavior. 'If I give him/her XYZ... certainly they'll learn to love me again.'
"Is wiping the asses and noses of 20 yr olds somehow related to anything at all?"
Yep, it sure is when these kids grow up and act like self centered, spoiled, entitled, demanding, lazy mini-beasts b/c their poor wittle feewings got hurt by a PSYCHO BM and a Disney-Dad. These kids typically grow up with the belief that the world OWES them something and they don't have to work to get it like other people do. They are typically incapable of doing ANYTHING for THEMSELVES.
"Do you know of anyone that does that?"
Umm.. Hello....Do you even read the posts and blogs here???
"Perhaps you should save your shoot and run type of discussion for that person."
If you don't like or agree with what I've said here on MY blog, there is a quick remedy... STFU.
"I don't think you do know how to deal with ANYTHING primarily since you have never cared for any children."
Opinions are like a$$holes, we all have one. For future reference, you don't have to raise a child to see the crippling effects of poor parenting. FYI. I shared the responsibility of helping to raise my neice and nephew (7yrs) when my brother passed away so you probably shouldn't ASSume you know something that you don't. It really is an unattractive quality in a person, ya know?
"You have never met your two step kids and somehow you feel your an expert on child rearing? Shit join the club, there are childless idiots all over this country that think they know everything too."
That's right, I have NEVER met them and you know what.... that isn't some big secret here. I have been more than honest about that fact. What you don't know is WHY and to be quite blunt with you.... it's none of YOUR damn business. See, you have not EARNED the right to know.
I NEVER claimed to be an expert on child rearing. Apparently YOU are, since you seem to think that ANYONE who doesn't have kids of their own and/or subscribe to that BS video is.... how did you say it??? Oh yes, "childless idiots." So is that to say that anyone here who is childless, couldn't possibly have an ounce of intelligence about the right way to raise a child??? Because after all, it is rocket science, (sic) right? Oh yeah, and my God... the BP's are doing such an EXCELLENT job.... that's why there are so many posts here every single day about that very topic. ANYONE with the ability to SEE and HEAR can figure out what's going wrong. Most of the time, it surely isn't the SM.
I'll say it again, YOU sound like a problem BM with an ax to grind. My suggestion is that you find somewhere else to sharpen your claws and your ax. I'm growing very impatient with your name calling and ridiculously senseless rhetoric.
Now, you have a splendid day!
I just saw this clip and I'm
I just saw this clip and I'm sorry, this is just BS. Seriously it is very inconsistant. Why does the "rejected parent" have to get the blame for everything? There comes a time when these kids are old enough to take on responsibility for the words and their actions. I saw this clip and actually felt sorry for SO (okay well ex-so.) Because when he tried to back away and give his kids some space because that is what THEY wanted it backfired. He tried to call them and stay in contact with them and when he did the oldest would have a tantrum that she was busy and didn't have time for him. But she sure as hell has time to ask for a ride or money somewhere. I have heard his kids (especially the oldest) tell him how much of a horrible father he was how he didn't do anything for her and in the same breath say "if you love me you would do this for me." WHATEVER! One point it says that sometimes the rejected parent should just accept the situation but then it says never give up. Why should he continue to try to call and text them when all they do is curse at him and use him as an ATM and Taxi? He isn't good enough to talk to him for 2 minutes but he's good enough to car their asses all over town and hand hout money whenever they want. I am so glad I never wasted the money on this video. I am in complete understanding that there are children (and I am referring to the younger ones) that don't know what is going on, or that the BM is keeping the kids away from the father. But kids are smarter then we give them credit for and some know the art of manipulation.
Seems we are in the same
Seems we are in the same club. Are we having fun yet???
There is a distinct
There is a distinct difference in between being a spoiled BRAT and being a victim of "P.A.S."
I've seen both and one can't blame any diagnosis on just being plain spoiled.
That is why I am not so quick to jump on the "PAS" crusade- FYI
Bitching about not getting everything you want, not NEED has nothing to do with "P.A.S." It has to do with being a brat.
Suffering and acting out emotionally on a plot on behalf of a mentally ill mother is indeed "PAS."
Big differences.
Agreeing that there is a diff
Agreeing that there is a diff between 'PAS'd' and 'spoiled.' However, do you think that PAS'd kids are more likely to become spoiled as well, when the alienated parent attempts to undo the wrongs with monetary gifts and NO rules, boundaries, etc.? I believe it takes the PAS'd child closer to the edge of a real mental disorder and why I think we are seeing more kids dx'd with PD's and/or other serious behavioral issues. Just my thoughts though.... I am in no way an 'expert'... I just play one on TV, lol!
I think PAS'd skids are more
I think PAS'd skids are more likely to be spoiled. The alientating parent wants to win over the kid and uses gifts as a way to control (our BM used to tell SS that she bought everything for him while DH never paid CS - the truth was that she used the CS to buy those gifts and then claimed that DH didn't love him or care enough to do the same). In return, the targeted parent tries to buy back the affections of the child resulting in guilty-daddy techniques and furthering the entitlement of the child. It's a vicious cycle.
And I think you're exactly right. These tactics lead skids to have more mental health issues along with their behavior problems throughout their entire life.
I am inclined to agree with
I am inclined to agree with you. ALL children can be spoiled and I have seen plenty of 'intact' families where the kids are massivly entitled and spoiled. Still you can even witness them alienating either parent if denied their way. PAS'd kids learn the 'tricks of the trade' (so to speak) even better, and act on them moreso, IMHO.
10-15 yrs ago, most never heard of PD's. Even PAS was a relatively 'new term' thrown in the mix. Today, it is thrown around like confetti. (Again, I am in no way saying that PAS does not exist nor am I holding myself out to be an expert on anything. These are simply MY observations.) Everyone I know either knows a kid or has a kid with an emerging PD and/or some other type of behavioral issue. Didn't see that so much when I was growing up so all this DR. Spock CRAP is really starting to come unraveled. IMHO.
Intresting question. My " .02
Intresting question. My " .02 cents worth- LOL
I do believe that the child must be spoiled originally to make the "PAS" crusade effective. (if that makes sense.)
BUT IF they are aware and old enough to notice that they are being spoiled and or entitled and continue to do such, PAS would become void. IMHO-
What age do you think a child becomes aware that they can get whatever they want by "acting out" ? My age group seems to be far younger than most, just by mere observations.
"I do believe that the child
"I do believe that the child must be spoiled originally to make the "PAS" crusade effective. (if that makes sense.)"
You make a valid point BFK.
I have often thought that a BM who PASes has probably been doing it throughout the entire marriage and as a result this child is set up to believe that the sun and moon rise and set on their little hind ends as well as the PASer's. You see, there is significant evidence (yes, I have researched it, btw
) that mothers who PAS are mentally disordered. Now, that doesn't happen b/c of the marriage... it is genetic/environmental... the way the BM herself was raised. I know that is certainly the case for my particular situation.
"BUT IF they are aware and old enough to notice that they are being spoiled and or entitled and continue to do such, PAS would become void. IMHO-"
I guess the question would then be... do they become aware as they age that their behavior is wrong or does it take an adult to point it out? A problem BM can't sort out her own erratic behavior enough to actively see it in her own child (unless this behavior costs BM something or causes an injury to their delicate psyche.) The BF possibly doesn't have the skills or the patience to change the behavior himself especially if he is constantly embattled with a disordered BM.
"What age do you think a child becomes aware that they can get whatever they want by "acting out" ? My age group seems to be far younger than most, just by mere observations."
That's the million $$$ question. Maybe it depends on the mental health of BOTH parents as to what age actual comprehension comes about. No doubt, it's different for everyone. From research I have seen, children are quite young when they learn that a certain amount of manipulation gets them what they want. Have you witnessed a child of 2 in a store checkout line 'acting out' b/c he/she wants that candy/toy? I have. Obviously an 'acting out' situation had to have occured previously with the parent giving in, for the child to understand that acting out again... gets them what they want. The candy. If that makes sense, lol.
Food for thought.