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My DD and State Department of Education

Ursula's picture

This is kind of a weird story and NSMR at all, but I wanted to see if anyone has been through something similar.

My DD is 5, currently in a private preschool and will be going to kindergarten in the fall.  She is attending a summer camp program at the same preschool she's gone to since she was 3.  A mother of another child confronted me at the school about something she thought my daughter had done to her daughter.  I had never heard about the incident before.  When she brought it up to me, I mentioned that he daughter had cut my daughters hair a month prior to this and she didn't try to have a conversation with me about that incident.  I walked away from her and the mom called me the b word at the school in front of her daughter, and my daughter.  This exchange was also overheard by a teacher at the school. 

Now, this mom has gotten a lawyer involved and had a lawyer sent to the school alleging that my daughter is a bully, verbally harasses this other child, physically assaults this child, and they are threatening to call the state department of education.  The director of the school and the two teachers for the two girls classroom have told the mom that there is nothing going on between these two girls outside of normal kid behavior.  This other mom seems to have some kind of vendetta against me and my daughter.  The mom is insistent on having a face to face meeting with me but the school has told her multiple times that is not how they deal with these kinds of situations, and that there is nothing to even have a meeting about.  

I'm worried that this is going to end up with my daughter being labeled a bully and maybe ending up with some kind of IEP even though there is literally nothing going on.  Has anyone had a situation like this occur?

Comments

SteppedOut's picture

My first inclination is to tell you to ignore her. But I feel like we are living in some crazy times - I feel like I am in the twilight zone most days when I read the news.

If this happened to my child there is NO WAY I would let this happen if he was innocent. I feel like since the director/teachers say she is, you can be certain of that. Fight this any way you can to ensure your daughter isn't marked - because sadly these kind of things can stick and affect a child's entire school experience.

What is this lawyer wanting done so they don't call the DOE? What action or inaction is the facility taking?

Ursula's picture

That's exactly my worry!  I don't want her getting labeled as a bully by the department of education.  This letter from the lawyer is insane.  It's saying my daughter kicks her, knocks her down, punches her in the face.  This other little girl is literally twice the size of my daughter!  And crazy enough even though this mom is alleging the school is not providing a safe environment for her daughter, she was offered a refund for the summer camp fees and waiver of the two weeks notice to withdraw from the school, but the mom says no, she's still going to send her there.  

The school told me that if the lawyer files a complaint with the department of education their credentialing officer will come out to observe the classroom and see that there is nothing going on and that should be the end of it.  They won't know a complaint is filed until someone shows up to observe the classroom.

Cover1W's picture

Is the woman's daughter making things up to get attention from her mother... we've certainly seen that here on ST!

I hope your daughter isn't being bullied by that girl, we know that sometimes the person doing the bullying complains about others doing them wrong when it's them actively participating...my OSD was one of those.

I feel for you. The woman sounds like a lunatic and you should start documenting things like the haircutting and teachers reports.

Rumplestiltskin's picture

If it comes down to the word of a teacher vs the word of a woman who is reacting to second-hand info from a 5-year-old, you should be fine. I am concerned about your daughter's hair being cut, though. Do you think the kids are adequately supervised? Is there another place your daughter can go for the 2-3 months until kindergarten starts? This sounds like a lot of bullsh!t for a preschool. 

Ursula's picture

I was very upset when my daughters hair was cut.  I kind of let it slide thinking it was a one time thing and now I wish I hadn't.  

Mominit's picture

If you can, get a report on your child from the camp in writing.  Something that states they have no behavioural concerns and expect her to thrive in her new school. If crazy-Mom goes any further with the lawyer it will be to sue the school for poor supervision.  She won't go after just you.  And I bet the school would lawyer up and defend themselves quite nicely. Bonus points if you have anything in writing from them that shows that her child cut your daughter's hair (which is assault I believe!).

Then, you have a letter just in case.  If she does ANYthing to influence the school against your daughter I'd go to the school with the behavioural report, explain that she is one of "those" moms, you know the helicopter mom who thinks their child is perfect,   And then threaten to sue her right back for defamation. 

Hopefully the lawyer is just one of those people who will take on any case (or more likely some friend of her family who's happy to write a threatening letter for free, but won't really be doing anything with it).  

If the school has a process for resolving issues, that policy is also your back up (if they have a policy and choose not to enact it, then it must not be something major and was (as they said) simple childhood behaviours).  What does the lawyer want out of this face to face?  If it's as simple as asking the camp to separate the girls, you don't need a lawyer for that, and I think it's a good idea to keep them away from each other for the rest of the summer.  If it's money or to get your DD kicked out, she can go kick rocks.  If it's an apology, then I'd say that's fine.  Her son apologies for cutting your daughter's hair and any other behaviours, and yours apologizes for her part.

And that may actually be worth considering having a chat with your daughter.  Just because her behaviour is "simple childhood" misbehaving, doesn't mean that there's no less to be learned.  If she is indeed behaving poorly toward the boy and he's behaving poorly toward her, what should you as a Mom be doing to ensure she gets some value out of the encounters.  Either how to ignore a bully, what parts of her behaviour would you be disappointed to see etc.  Not saying she's a bully, but obviously there's some poor behaviour that the school sees, even though it doesn't warrant a parental intervention.

Ursula's picture

I believe this mom wants my daughter kicked out of the school.  The director has said that she seems to have some kind of vendetta against me, which is so strange because I don't even know this woman.  My daughter was invited to her daughter's birthday party last year, I took her and was friendly with the mom.  

I've had a lot of conversations with my daughter about making sure she is kind to everyone, doesn't hit, making sure that if someone hits her she lets a teacher know, etc.  The teachers and the director feel strongly that this mom just has a victim mentality and is on a war path for some reason.  

ESMOD's picture

It may be time for you to get a lawyer and get this foolishness put to an end. 

I am unclear as to what is happening at a private school and camp would have on her school next year in Kindergarten? or is that other girl going to the same school? next year also.

If the school and teachers are aware that the girls are not getting along well.. then they should be taking proper steps to keep them separated.. if both girls are giving as good as they are getting.. then both girls could be subject to discipline.. so this is a time to drill into your kid that she needs to avoid this child and any interractions.. and that she should go to a teacher if the girl starts anything.

Your lawyer should give advice on how to best approach.. I would be really cautious about going further without legal representation honestly.. because you may have to file paperwork against the mother if she is being aggressive.

Ursula's picture

The preschool they go to is credentialed through the state department of education.  I'm worried that anything that she gets labeled as at this preschool could follow her to elementary school since it will be a public school.  I could be wrong about that though.  

I have been hesitant to tell my daughter to stay away from this other little girl because from what I hear from teachers they play together all the time, but I think it probably is time to do that!  

I have a call in to a lawyer through my legal sheild plan at work, waiting on a call back to see what they think.

CajunMom's picture

Talk to your own attorney. And don't be shy about letting it known so Crazy can know you aren't messing with her crazy azz. As she will "fight" for her child, so will YOU (fight for yours). Also, as someone mentioned, get documentation from the school about the two incidents and also how your child is doing in the school. It will cost you a bit of money but I would not back down from this crazy woman.

notarelative's picture

The only thing that will follow your daughter to elementary school is her academic knowledge. But, if you are concerned, ask for a copy of whatever the school sends and keep it. Insane parent complaints about a child are not passed on.

The chances of someone from the state department of ed showing up to observe before the summer is over are slim. Accusions of preschool bullying are not what they urgently prioritize. Frankly, they expect the school to take care of it. 

I'd stop worrying unless the lawyer sends you a letter. And then, I would not worry, I'd just bring it to my lawyer. What will most likely happen next is that she will try to get the teacher fired.

Do not talk to this woman again. The school should move one of the children to another group, and the child moved should be her daughter.

Next school year this parent will have moved on to accusing another child.

Survivingstephell's picture

Do a little social media investigation and see if there is any connection to BM or crazy GF 

SteppedOut's picture

I was coming back to say this.

loveallmygirls's picture

First off, I'm a school administrator so unfortunately I see things like this a lot. I am in California, but I am sure processes are similar in your state. Your daughter has due process rights like any other US citizen. She cannot be punished without witnesses or evidence, and there needs to be a preponderance of evidence that she is guilty of what this lady is accusing her of in order for the school to discipline her. Have you asked administration to look into these accusations to see if there is anything caught on camera, or if there are any teacher or student witnesses to this alleged behavior? If not, how likely is it these children can ever be alone long enough for anything to happen. That's a supervision issue- the fact that the other child had time to cut your child's hair concerns me. If they find something on camera they won't be able to show you, but they will be able to tell you what they do or don't see.
 

Bullying is a repeated act that attempts to impose power over another person, whether that be physically, socially, or emotionally. The term is thrown around a lot. If your daughter called her one name or wouldn't let her play a game with her, that's not bullying. That's normal childhood behavior. Unless the actions are repetitious, and the parent brought it to the teachers attention prior to this incident, there is no history of bullying. If she knocks the other girl down or punches her in the face, I imagine there is a report from the health office? Especially at such a young age where children would definitely tell an adult about something like that, in which case the child that did it would be disciplined for assault. 
 

Secondly, an IEP cannot be imposed on your child. You must consent to an individualized education plan, and the process for this requires extensive psycho-educational testing. There is nothing to worry about here :). 
 

I would absolutely not allow two parents to meet with one another over a potentially caustic situation.  There is too much liability involved there. The administration is correct on not supporting this. 
 

I would do two things, first thing tomorrow: request a no-contact agreement between the girls. I am at a middle school and we typically end up with 50+ kids on one with other students by the end of the year. Of course, you would have to decide if your child understands what a no contact agreement means. I would also request from her elementary school that they have scheduling exclusions put into place so they cannot be put in the same class together. When you drop her off tomorrow, be sure to stay near others who can act as witnesses in case this mom tries anything. 
 

I hope this helps. 

ESMOD's picture

My nephew was actually subjected to bullying by a set of twins in his class.. he ended up with visible injuries from the kids.. including a black eye.. bloody nose.  The teachers and witnesses agreed that the twins were 100% the aggressors and that my nephew did nothing to incite this.. it was complicated by the fact that my SIL (his mom) also worked at this private school... at first the school was reluctant to take action.. and the actions they took were not very strong and in the end.. my brother lawyered up.. and put them on notice that if his kid was harmed again they would be in court as defendents along with the family (parents of the other boys) for a nice big lawsuit.  It was a kind of bad situation.. t he father of the other boys was not a nice person.. had some drinking issues and probably was abusing his own kids which led to them acting out.. but my brother did not feel it was his job to offer up his kid as a sacrifice because those other kids had a crappy home life!  (the kids ultimately chose to not return to the school after refusing to sign paperwork acknowledging they would prevent future issues)

strugglingSM's picture

Document, document, document. Meet with the school adminstrators and ask them to also keep documentation of every incident with your child and this child and between you and this mother. If the mother continues to harass you, consider getting a restraining order against her. 

IEPs are governed by federal law (the Individuals with Disabilities Act). They are meant to provide services to help students with disabilties. They typically cost schools money, both in the time and resources needed to create them and the services needed to meet the stated goals and requirements in the plan. 

Five year olds get into tussles all the time. The vast majority of the time, they are minor, but bullying can start early and oftentimes the accuser is really the bully. If you can, I would request that your daughter not be in the same class as this other child. If you suspect bullying, I would request a safety plan that requires that your DD be kept away from the other child. 

Your daughter does have due process rights, so no determination can be made without following a thorough investigation process. 

Finally, if this mother has a lawyer, do not talk to her directly. Her lawyer should also be advising her not to talk to anyone and should know that he/she should only be talking to a lawyer for the school or for you. I'm assuming you don't have one, but typically, lawyers are only supposed to talk to other lawyers, not to harass individuals about possibly legal action. If she wants to sue, then she can file a suit and have you served, otherwise, she's just trying to use a lawyer to manipulate to get what she wants.