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Living the disengagement dream

Sadielady's picture

Thought I'd do a little update, since it's been awhile and all of you got me through some pretty dark days. In the months leading up to Christmas, SS30 was doing his best Eddie Haskell routine (I'm aging myself here!). Like  ignore my texts and then tell DH he hadn't received them. DH has come a long way, but still wanted to believe that things were salvageable with SS (especially with SS planning a wedding). I couldn't stand the thought of going into 2024 with this dark cloud still hanging over my marriage. So I forced a confrontation with SS, and he showed his very ugly colours. DH hasn't seen or heard from him since late December. Of course, DH's uncle caught wind and decided to try and "fix" things. Asked DH to meet him for lunch. DH has already met with said uncle twice and attempted to lay boundaries. Prior to this big mess, DH and I often met uncle/aunt for dinners out, so DH asked if uncle was proposing lunch for the 4 of us. Uncle then showed his ugly colours (which was heartbreaking for DH bc this uncle has been like a big brother to him, but validating to me bc I'd already been treated to a viewing of the darkside). The uncle said some hurtful things to DH, and now they haven't spoken for over a month. It's been a lot for DH to process, although I think he knew he was grasping at straws for any sanity in his family. I still feel sad for DH and am supporting him through the grief, but I can't tell you how light I feel. And how guilt-free. I've stopped caring if anyone thinks I'm keeping DH from his family. And I feel justified in my stance that I won't have relationships with people who are unapologetically sh*tty to me, and I won't be married to someone who does. If that means I'm keeping DH from his family, I'm okay with that.

Comments

ESMOD's picture

At the end of the day.. our spouses need to manage the relationships with their kids.. when we try to intertwine.. intervene or fix things.. it seems to most often result in somehow being "our fault".. even when we had nothing to do with how things started.

I think that you fell into that with your SS.. a hurt situation got turned around on you.. and whatever small relationship was there was damaged.. if your husband had simply set more clear and consistant boundaries with his kids.. this likely would not have come to this.. if your husband had better communication with his son.. this would not have ended up in your virutal lap to feel you needed to "fix".

I agree.. life is too short to spend it on unpleasant people and things.  If your husband wants a relationship with his son. that is on HIM.. and his son is an adult.. if he wants one with his dad.. HE can reach out.  And.. in the end.. they could even do that if it didn't outright include you in the mix.. nothing to say that a father and son can't have a phone call.. go to lunch every now and again.. you don't have to be "involved" in their relationship.. BUT.. they don't appear to want it.. so it is what it is.

Sadielady's picture

Completely agree with everything you said. DH had guilty divorced dad syndrome, so he necver held his kids accountable. I stayed out of it because they were adults and not my kids. And I thought we had a good relarionship, until the thibg they needed to be accountable for was their treatment of me. It's clear now that their  "love" and "acceptance" of me was conditional on the benefits it brought them. Someone told me recently that Takers raise Givers and Givers raise Takers. I don't know if that's always true, but it certainly is in my DH's situation. He's a giver surrounded by a family of takers.

Lillywy00's picture

You're not putting a gun to his head so you're not forcing him to be away from his family. He has his own free will and he's choosing to live his life as he sees fit. 
 

As a spouse in a marital relationship you are a unit of one team. You have a right to say something to him especially if he's in your home wreaking havoc. If your husband didn't want you to talk to him he should have informed you of such but he didn't.  
 

If these kids and extended families don't like it then they either grit their teeth and suck it up (heck it's a lot of stuff in the world I don't like but I don't get into unlimited pissing matches, try not to act in a way that's counterproductive to my goals, and I go about my day regardless) or respectfully remove their negativity/their presence. 

Sadielady's picture

Agreed. Growing up, my dad turned every gripe I had to a conversation about "how are you contributing to this situation?" And "what are you going to do about it?". I hated it. I just wanted to vent. I'm very grateful for it now and have very little patience for people who sit in anger or pity instead of acting. (My kids now hate my approach, but I hope they, like me, eventually realize the gift I'm giving them).

Harry's picture

That people [SS] has to cause your DH so many problems.   SS lives away, he only has to be social, get along with you, Doesn't take that mush effort. Answering text, .. Saying hello... wishing you a happy. ..?..    

But chooses to cause trouble.. making the family take sides...  He upset because he lost control.?.. Did  he ever have control ?  Since. DH has your back. SS never had control.  What did he lose , ?  Was SO giving him money, gifts, ??? 
'SO knows his relationship with you is what makes him happy.  Sharing, time. . Dinner,, playing,, his life with you make him happy.   SS  was plays a challenging game ,,, He lost, now he trying to get the uncle, family on his side, what does him nothing 

Sadielady's picture

Exactly true. Part of the sadness for DH has been realizing how little happiness/joy his kids brought ito his life, even before all of this. When family members push him to try to "fix" things with his kids, his response is now "It would be great if things with the kids were resolved, but my life is happy and content and I'm not chasing after them".

CLove's picture

So sorry you went through all that.

Glad you are on the other side.

CajunMom's picture

It often comes at a high price. Good for you on confronting and getting closure. And now living in a "happy, disengaged" world....that is the best revenge any of us can have in the crazy StepHell. It's where I live also....and I love it. I can't add much...ESMOD's comment says everything.

Glad to hear from you...I was wondering how you were doing!

 

Rags's picture

Letting things settle into the new normal isn't a bad thing.

My brother and I had to work through a similar transition for a number of years after we had both married.  Neither of us chose the partner the other would have chosen for us.  The difference being, I chose well. He did not.

Over the 3 decades we have each been with our spouses, he has developed a huge amount of respect for my DW.  While I do not dislike my SIL, she is not a quality partner for my brother.   Or a particularly quality mother for my niece/nephews.  

My brother still maintains that he has 4 children.  He has resigned himself to his life with her, but..... I know he has regrets.

I was the one to drive and maintain contact and relationships.  For many years my brother completely disengaged. His wife basically told him to end contact with his family or he would never see his kids again.  Instead of ripping her head off and shitting in her lungs as I recommended, he caved to her threats.  I lost him. For a very long time.  In hind sight I probably should have taken a more moderate position on how I advised him to deal with her threats.  

As self preservation I stopped chasing, calling, engaging, etc....   After many years, he started calling me.  I have not reset to my old normal with him. I let him set the freqiency of engagement. I can't have my heart ripped out again.

My parents would ask if I had spoken with my brother.  My answer was always no.  I would remind them that he was the one that abandoned our normal family dynamic for many, many years.  I applaud that my brother is investing in rebuilding what the 4 of us once had.  I have an extremely close relationship with my parents.  My brother's relationship with them is far less close, but it is beginning to improve.

With the history that your DH is working through with his kid and now with his Uncle, letting the new normal sink in and putting the onus of contact on them is a self preservation idea in my opinion.  And what DH needs to do.  Keep the message forward that he will engage if they initiate and if they are absolutely respectful.  Disrespect was not something my brother ever did. He just disappeared nearly completely,.

 

Sadielady's picture

Thanks Rags. It's interesting to hear your perspective on ypu SIL because I think my inlaws would probably say the same things about me (despite the massive love bombing they sent my way for the first 12 years). I don't think they'll ever return to engaging with me respectfully. They don't regret the way they've treated me because they think I deserve it. There's no getting past that on either side. 

Rags's picture

Marriage can cause incredible disruption in even very close families.  Mom, dad, my brother, and me were exceptionally close.  My first marriage was far closer to my XILs than to my family. Not surprising as my parents were Expats and my brother was of at boarding school.  A few months after the divorce my brother and I started Engineering school together in a different State.

I had spoken with my parents shortly after my divorce outlining a disagreement that I had with a business partner and that I had given him an ultimatum that I continued to run the company under the original model of operations or the conversation was my two weeks notice.  I told mom and dad that I had tendered my resignation and had called for buy out of my ownership shares in the copany.  My business partner had called my parents, who were also my business partners, and demanded that they instruct me to do as I was told and that I could not resign.  Dad summed that up succinctly "He already called.  I have one thing to say to you son.  What the hell took you so long.".  So, I got my buy out check.  The company folded 5yrs later.  My model worked. The partner's model didn't.

A few days after my conversation with mom and dad my brother called. "Mom and dad said you sold out and are going to engineering school in Dallas."  Yep. That was the plan.  He then asked why Dallas and why not Phoenix.  It was closer and cheaper for me to move to Dallas and after my resignation the business partner I had disagreed with called to ask if I would stay in a paid consultant role so I could have made great money and spent portions of every week commuting to the business.  I told my brother that I would actually prefer Phoenix.  Less than 24hrs later there was a knock on my door. My brother had withdrawn from school.  A  month later we headed for Phoenix.

The 4 of us made our family connection even stronger during the nearly 4yrs of engineering school.  Then... my brother met, got pregnant with my SIL, and they married.  DW and I married 9mos after my brother and SIL marriex six mos after their eldest was born. We were all very close for several years after that.  Then... my SIL started her destroy our family crap.  She almost succeeded.  She is a trust fund baby.  Her dad was wealthy, her mom inherrited wealth and her second marriage is to a very wealthy heir who also had a very successful career.  So when SIL started her threats to take my brother's kids, he shut up and did what he was told.  SIL had access to  huge resources that my brother did not think he could protect himself or his kids from .  So, apparently he stayed to protect himself and his kids.

My SIL is really incapable of living as an independant adult.  She is incredibly naive, is easily manipulated.  Her mother is the master of that and it would have been his MIL that my brother would have been battling had he chosen to assert himself during the threat of losing his kids years.

As my brother's career has boomed, things are far more balanced in their marriage.  Their marriage nearly did not make it several times over the years.  But is now in the best place it has ever been.  Their kids are basically raised. Two are Uni grads and married.  Their youngest graduates in a few months.  My bro is in a C -suite role, my SIL is the poster wife of a successful executive.  Runs marathons, hits the club regularly, travels with her wealthy girl friends, etc...

We have never treated my SIL as anything but family and been welcoming. She has been a cross for us all to bear. Sadly.  Those who don't really know her consider her to be a sweet, good hearted, dedicated mom, commited wife.  I know most of that is a facade.  I care about her, I do not trust her.  Not that she would or is capable of any nepharious actions, but because her naivette is dangerous.  She has done absolutely nothing with her life. Other than marry my brother.  She is entirely self centered and she is not evil. Which is what makes her so dangerous IMHO.  Her naivette and self centeredness plays as good heartedness.   My brother's kids are kind hearted, extremely intelligent, and accomplished young adults.  They love their mom. They love and respect their father.  He is the one they call for advice, the one they go to for hugs, and the one who has set the quality adult example for them.

Your ILs, resemble my SS's SpermClan to me. Disrespecful, manipualtive, and willfully delusional.

My SIL is not knowingly disrespectful, willfully, evil nor willfully delusional.  She believes she a good person.  Sadly she is destructive to good people and close family relationships between good people.  Not that she is not a good person.  She is not evil. Though her influence on the lives of others are not generally positive.

Even my completely kind hearted amazing accomplished brilliant successful bride struggles with my SIL.  Just the other day, maybe not ironically, my DW made a comment about our house. We live in our home. None of them have ever been a museum. They are clean, neat, and lived in. My SILs homes have all looked like model homes.  Just don't open a closet door, or cabinette, etc... That can cause serious injury.  On the surface her home is pristine.  But shit is crammed packed into every space with a door to the point that if you open it, you can get hit in the head with falling debris, dishes, pots, pans, etc.... I know, I have had to dodge all kinds of falling items.  When they would take trips they would ask us to keep an eye on their house, feed and walk their dog every day, etc...  Those were some data point experiences that added to other observational learnngs regarding my SIL.  

Her penchant for the facade of a model home yet cramming shit in the corners of cubby holes, etc... has cost significant money several times over they years. When our GrandDad died he left my brother and I a van he had.  We cleaned it up to sell it.  We were doing that in the driveway of my brother's house.  We bought a home about 1/4mile down the same street a year after they bult their home.  Which pissed off my SIL. Anyway, the file with the car title and maintenance record was on their kitchen island while we were getting the van ready to sell.  On top of the file was the key for the wheel locks that were on the nice wheels on the van. When we finished we put the van in the local paper and parked it in a parking lot on a cross roads corner not far from our neighborhood.  A week later we got a call from someone who wanted to buy the van.  We negotiated, reached an agreement, and went to get the title, etc... Gone.  SIL had stashed it and could not recall where.  We looked for hours. Never found it.  Had to file for a lost title.  It toom a month+ for the new title to arrive. We lost that sale.  We did sell the van not long after we got the new title.

Opening the pantry or utility room door to get the dog food, a dog bown, etc... is dangerous.

Anyway, DW & I  were talking family the other evening and DW made a comment that someone had once told her that they were not comfortable in our home.  I was taken aback by that comment since anyone who has visited us has always commented about how nice our homes have been, how comfortable they are, and how much fun we all had together.  I asked who had said that.  My SIL.  As I said above, she has accomplished nothing in her life. Zero.  Her one accomplishment is that she married my brother. Where my DW is exceptionally accomplished in her own right.  Educated, certified, professionally successful, etc....   An interesting element of my SIL and my DW is that my DW is 6yrs younger than my SIL.  When we married my SIL made it clear that she was the big sister and had always wanted a little sister.  My DW is the eldest of 4.  SIL is the youngest of two girls.  So, being the side kick was not a thing for my DW.  This injected some hurt into the situation for my SIL and some irritation for my DW.  SIL felt as the elder she was the advisor, etc... As a woman, and as a mother. Though my SS was 18mos old when my SIL had their first child.  So, DW had been a mom to an infant, a mom to a toddler, etc... while my SIL was a brand new mom.

I was so pissed when DW told me about the "we are not comfortable in your home" comment.  For my DW.  That comment by my SIL hurt my wife.  I do not deal well with idiots who would hurt a good caring person.  I am happy that my brother is finally at a spot where he is at least somewhat content.  I do care about my SIL. Though I do not trust her and I do not respect her.

Just a couple of months ago my brother and niece gave us Christmas gifts to remind us where home is. They have all moved back to the city where we all lived before my brother and his family and DW and I went on our respective Expat adventures. They want us to move home so the family can be geographically close.  Mom and dad are elderly so it has been on our minds quite a bit for a number of years.  My SIL was decidedly reserved compared to her DH's and DD's energetic message for DW and I to return home.

Anyway, my blather is intended to support you and point out that your ILs, are the problem.  More likely than not, they are disrespectful because they are uncomfortable that you are a far better person than they are.

For decades of raising their kids, my brother worked 50+ hour work weeks. Every evening when he woudl get home from work she would tell him to cook dinner and that the kids were his to deal with. Then... gone.  I always expected a phone ringing to be the call telling my brother was gone from a heart attack.  I had two notable nightmare sleep events during the worst of that phase when I woke up from a dead sleep gasping and choking, I literally could not breath.  In both of those nightmares my brother was dead.  As he was lying where he had dropped I was trying to help him and my SIL galavanting around living her self absorbed life paying no attention to my brothers prostate dead body.  Just typing this I have tears running down my cheeks.

Not that she was celebrating, she just had zero cognition of anyone but herself.  Fortunately it was only a nightmare and not real.

Now, I feel a bit guilty.  I wish I could feel far differently about my SIL than I do.  

Take care of you.  

 

Rags's picture

And... my parents consider my DW to be their daughter. They call her their daughter.  My SIL, is their DIL.  Though when she does deign to spend time with my parents, they treat her no differently than they treat my DW.  They just are not close with SIL. Where they are very close with my DW.

SIL set this dynamic 25+years ago.  When mom and dad were Expats they would split their home leave time between my brother's house and our home.  Bonding with their GKs and with ther sons and DILs.  After a few years of that, SIL informed my brother to tell mom and dad that they could not stay with them anymore.  When my brother, SIL, and their kids were Expats, mom and dad's home was bro and SIL's home.  I have always found that double standard from my SIL  to be a gut wrencher.  Mom and dad have never said a word about that to SIL. Though they have made it very clear to my brother that it was heartbreaking to be told they were not welcome in my brother's home.  That put my brother in tears, but he would not do anything about it.  SIL cost us (mom, dad, bro, me) decades of closeness with each other that was not necessary.  I would not be with a partner who was detrimental to my relationshipw with m mom and dad or with my brother.  That my brother tolerated that, still breaks my heart.

Interestingly, if you ask my SS, niece, and both nephews where home is, they all say energetically that my mom's and dad's home is their home.  All of the GKs take periodic pilgrimages to mom's and dad's to hang with them.   My nephews tend to stay with my niece when they are in town rather than with my brother and SIL.  Occassionally they wills stay with mom and dad, though only for a night and they pretty much do not broadcast that fact to their mother.

Mom and dad used our home as their base of operations towards the end of their Expat career.  Our home is there home.  They beat the drum that their home is our home. Always. As it was during our Expat years. 

Of course I have no issues with any of this... regarding my SIL and her detrimental impact on mom's and dad's family.

Being facitious of course.  Grrrrrr.

Your impact on your DH's family is because you are of quality where they ... are not.

 

Sadielady's picture

Thank you Rags. I don't know if I'm a quality person. I do klnow that I try to be. And that I'm a straight shooter, and that's been difficult for my inlaws to deal with. They would say that their a very close family, and I think they actually believe it. The truth is that their relationships and superficial and transactional. Even DH, after our 18 months or so of counseling to deal with his family, now acknowledges that his family is toxic. 

Rags's picture

That. is quality... beyond a shadow of a doubt.

We have had challenges with my ILs as well.  Part of that journey for us was getting to the point where we defined the boundaries, held those boundaries, and embraced that within thouse boundaries my ILs are people that we love and care about.

It is far harder on my DW than it is on me.  She periodically struggles with the reality that they are not the highest quality people out there.  Not that they are overtly terrible, other than my SIL who is a dirtbag lying thief who is terrible. 

We have learned to invest our relationship assets in people who are worthy of that investment.  Those who are not, we keep in their place.  Though we do engage with them, we do not allow them to infest our lives.

I am thrilled that you and DH are investing in counseling and in the quality of your lives together.

Don't be so hard on yourself.

*give_rose*