Subtle Gaslighting by DH?
Probably about two years ago, I told DH somewhat jokingly about how I felt he was manipulating me in subversive ways. Like, he would ask me for my opinion about something (usually related to the skids) and my thoughts did not align with his, so he would repeatedly badger me with his logic until I would give in. Then, much later, when I’d be pissed at whatever was going on, he would say that it was all my decision, so how could I be upset. I didn't know what the term gaslighting meant, but he explained it to me that day and we joked that he was gaslighting me. Now, two years later, I really think that I'm being manipulated by him. I don't think that he's doing it maliciously or maybe even consciously. But, I think he's definitely doing it on a consistent basis to get me to buy into what he wants for the kids. I've been feeling like this more so in the past few months as we deal with SD's college.
I haven't brought this up with him yet. I'm trying to subdue my anger that is now bubbling at the thought that he's may be consciously manipulating me. Even though I don't think he's doing it consciously, I know he's learned how. He has had to play this game with his ex. She's an unreasonable person who has at times put the skids in danger. Sometimes, the only way to get her to go along with something beneficial was for him to make her think that it was her idea. I'm worried that he's now playing games with me.
The two biggest issues that have been bugging me has been (1) our talk of possibly moving and (2) SD's college expenses.
(1) DH knows that I’m unhappy where we live. I think he’s forgotten about the details though. When we were first talking about buying a place together 6 years ago, he told me that we had to live in a particular outer suburb because he was afraid he would lose the skids if he moved elsewhere. We sought the advice of my therapist and our friends – everyone thought we should be close to the city, culture, and jobs, but he was relentless and I gave in and we bought the house in the outer suburbs. Not three months later, DH’s ex left the country and we got the skids full-time, so, we could have moved close to the city and he would not have lost the skids.
Fast forward to now. DH’s ex came back and moved within walking distance to us. Custody is half-half and SS is a hot mess, so I never want him full-time ever again. DH tells me that he doesn’t want SS full-time either and he’s also telling me that he is ready to move. When I asked him what would be the arrangement if we moved, he said his ex would have him full-time during the school year. But, he’s looking at neighborhoods with highly ranked high schools (I don’t know why it matters as SS is a C student) and houses with a bedroom for SS rather than a guest room that would double as his bedroom. Although I’m already pretty sure his ex will likely dump him on us if we move, I think DH is happily wanting to make this move so we get him full-time. Plus, he reminds me that it was my decision to take on the skids full-time even after his ex returned to the US. Like, it was something I really wanted as opposed to the better option of a sh*tty situation. I think he’s trying to get me to want SS full-time, which will never happen. I want to see him as little as possible now.
(2) The other issue is that SD is now going to college. When I met DH, he had a good paying job. But, it was all misleading or I had my head in the cloud/sand. He and his ex filed for bankruptcy while married - he had bad credit, no savings or retirement savings, let alone college savings for the skids, and poor spending habits when he divorced. His ex was and still is worse off than him. I, on the other hand, had pristine credit and lots of savings. I told him early on that I expected to be with someone who was going to equally contribute to retirement and the fact that he didn’t even have $3k in any type of savings for a car repair meant that he really needed to change things. I told him that paying for the skids college was just off the table. He needed to start saving for retirement. I felt bad, but he and his ex made poor financial decisions and it wasn’t like she was putting anything aside either. At the time, he completely agreed with me.
However, over the years since that initial conversation, he has worn me down. He first asked what I thought about giving SD money while she was in college. Then it was, “well I’ll also put aside money for SS during the same time so he gets interest.” Now, that we’ve been in the mist of financial aid packages from schools and SD refuses to go anywhere but a private school, DH also at one point said, “why don’t we pay for the whole thing” Grrr!
My recent life with him has just been a negotiation about how much we are giving SD for college and we shouldn’t even be having this conversation. He keeps trying to up the amount, but the way it’s happening makes me feel like he’s manipulating me. Like, he'll say, “well you want to give $5k a year and I want $9k, so lets meet in the middle with $7k .” No, dude. I didn’t want to give that, I acquiesced to $5k. Please just stop. Part of it doesn’t matter anymore. SD got a great scholarship (all kudos and credit to her, but I will pat myself on the back for helping her make that happen) and she wants to go there so she wants to take out the loans. Plus, she is grateful for what we are providing to help her out. I know I would have helped SD with college because of her achievements without all of DH’s pressure and manipulation, so all of it just leaves me feeling crappy.
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Gaslighting is abuse. If you
Gaslighting is abuse. If you genuinely think that your husband is gaslighting you, then you need to take a step back from your marriage to examine what is going on, decide if there are any other abusive behaviors, and investigate whether the gaslighting happens cyclically.
I'm sorry. I probably shouldn
I'm sorry. I probably shouldn't have used the term gaslighting. He's not abusive. I am concerned that he's manipulating me. But, like I said, I'm not even sure if he's even aware of it.
Both of you are aware of what
Both of you are aware of what he's doing. The question is why do you put up with it?
He knows
He explained the term gaslighting to you, so he knows. He may not be doing it totally maliciously, but it’s still abusive because it makes someone question their sanity. It sounds like you need a counselor or maybe a mediator because he won’t stop pushing for more for his kids. He needs a third party to call him out on what he’s doing. If he didn’t save the money himself than he should not be allocating it for an expense that many parents don’t cover. Also, if you agreed that your SS would live with his mother full-time, yet your DH is acting as if SS will still live with you, then you need to set that boundary fast and hold to it.
Your present sounds a lot like I fear my future will be - complete with the bankruptcy for my DH during his first marriage and living in a suburb that suits seeing more of SKids, but which I do not like (when DH and I met, we were both living in / near the city, then BM moved the SKids 20 miles further south, we now live where they used to live). When my SKids are 18, DH and I agreed that we would move closer to my family (who live 2500 miles away), but I’m already fearing it won’t happen, for all the reasons you lost.
Like you, I also had a lot of
Like you, I also had a lot of fear that what I thought would happen in the relationship would happen. This was why I was trying to stop things early on. As of now, I would say that most of my fears were founded because almost all of them came true. I live in a place that I never thought I would and with all the promises that this would be a short-term location, it now looks like we are stuck here until SS leaves for college or BM moves first.
One of the problems with the money thing is that DH now has money. He now saves, so I think that he thinks that the money should go to skids college instead of retirement. What he fails to see is that he didn't have much ability to save before he met me. The fact that I'm frugal and cook at home and I don't spend, the fact that I made a very large downpayment on our house and paid for all the costs associated (inspections, closing costs) and allowed him to be on the mortgage so that he could build credit and lowered our mortgage by well over $1k per month from payments. All of these things have allowed him to save for our future, but I think that he sees it as "I'm doing really well, so I should be able to give it to the skids," and not understanding why he is now doing really well.
So relatable
I think my DH realizes that his is on sound financial footing because of me, but will still want to pay for SKids even though he doesn’t have the money. MIL is running into the same thing, where she’s paid for law and masters degrees for DH’s siblings, so is now paying student loans well into her retirement and can’t afford to pay expenses for the vacation home she has (which is DH’s beloved childhood vacation home, so he wouldn’t dream of selling it). She’s also renting the place, so we can’t even use it, but she’s also taken out a lot of debt to cover repairs, so needs to rent it.
I’m going to try to cut DH off at the pass around retirement savings, by just putting money into an IRA for him. He has a pension at work and a couple of annuities, but they will not provide enough money for him to survive on.
I feel like I’m planning around all these things beyond my control - MIL’s finances, DH wanted to pay for SKids even though he and BM didn’t save, etc. I’ve been diligent about managing for myself, but I feel like having to correct for everyone else’s poor planning shouldn’t be my problem. It would strike me as terribly ironic if we had to bail MIL out. She is extremely bitter that her father provided for her SM in his will and has told DH in front of me, that he should make his brother the executor of his will to ensure that SKids get “what is rightfully theirs”. I would love to tell her that we can’t help her out because it’s my money, not DH’s and therefore, it should go to my parents, not her.
I’m living the same life as
I’m living the same life as you right now. DH has bad credit. Him and BM also filed for bankruptcy while married and she continues to drag his down due to things still in his name and her not paying the bills. I was married previously to someone that made a lot of money so when I divorced, I got half of our savings and it was quite a bit. Needless to say I’m the only one who brought money into this marriage. DH will try to downplay it and say that it was my ex’s money, not mine. Whatever! It put him in the House we are living in! SD is going to college in August also. Because mine are in college, he expects us to give SD the same amount per month as child support. We don’t do this for my kids. Their dad luckily has made good choices so he helps along with the GI bill. He thinks since my kids have a GI bill his daughter should be able to go. I don’t like my ex, but him, myself and my kids put up with the military life for a very, very long time and the GI bill is well earned!!!! DH and his ex didn’t prepare for college so why should we have to keep doing without? It’s time for her to get a job and help out some!!! BM thinks DH should keep supporting her and take on even more of their bills. It’s jist crazy. And yes, BM makes him feel like he’s not a good father if he doesn’t do it.
I feel you. It took 4 years
I feel you. It took 4 years after being in my relationship with DH for me to finally be able to say that he had no financial ties to his ex besides for the skids. He was paying for her car. They owed money to the IRS together. I was able to get DH to pay off the car and his portion to the IRS quickly (I'm a freakin accountant, it looks bad that he isn't paying his share of taxes), but his ex was taking her time to pay it off even though she had the money. I did manage to scare the both of them into getting her to pay it off though. She has a security clearance and the government was thinking of pulling clearances of people who owed the IRS money. I sent DH the article and lo and behold she paid off the bill that month.
I also paid for the house we all live in, so I understand your pain. Plus, DH is also telling me that we are not going to give DS money for college. But, I have money for retirement and I also can save money for his college. I feel like DH is being spiteful, whereas, I'm stating facts.
IRS debt
When I met DH he had just gotten an Innocent Spouse Ruling in his favor. He and BM owed $50k (!) to the IRS because she did not file taxes for 3 years. She didn’t file because she was self-employed and never paid estimated taxes, so she always owed all her taxes and whatever penalties in a big lump sum. Her job? She’s an accountant!!!
I also know - based on bank statements that DH kept that she expensed a lot of personal expenses to her business account. In fact, until she went to work for a firm, she paid for every sport and activity for SSs out of her business checking account.
I hope she knows that if she pushes me too far, I will send all those IRS docs and maybe her business checking account statements to her current employer (a CPA firm), where she is somehow a partner. She was previously in a small firm with one other partner and he broke up the partnership because he noticed she was doing shady things. She also logged on to his email because she wanted to know what he was telling people.
She’s a class act! DH got $60k in an inheritance from his grandmother. He put it into a college fund for SSs, BM raided it because she “needed” it, to cover business expenses. There’s no way I’m paying for college after that. She can cover it.
Right now, there is nothing in their CO about college expenses. When they have to go back and renegotiate, I will play hardball - especially since neither SS is really college material, but will of course, want to go.
The Girhippo
raided all 3 skids' college funds before the divorce, didnt tell the IRS (premature withdrawal) and tried to stick Chef with the entire bill! AND CHEF WAS GOING TO SHEEPISHLY PAY IT (with MY money). HELL No!
Yes, he’s manipulating you
Yes, he’s manipulating you and you know it. You know what you want and how much you’re willing to give. He’s badgering you and manipulating you because he knows he can.
Write down what you’re will to pay for, where you’re willing to move and what type of house you’re willing to move to. Decide if they are hills to die on.
He is absolutely manipulating
He is absolutely manipulating you. Firing at you until you give in, wearing you down. No means no and he should respect ANY decision you make. Big or small. Guilting/badgering/pestering/wearing someone down until they change their mind to something that the other person likes better is manipulation.
And abusive. Very abusive. He doesn't respect you enough to take no for an answer. To take any answer, for that matter. He just keeps at you and at you and at you until you're so sick of it you give in to what he's demanding.
Not a respectful, healthy, supportive relationship. Question is - what do you want to live with?
????
There are two people who made SS and SD. Your SO and BM. There are the ones to pay for SK. Not you
SO and BM can get a second job to pay for collage. If not then SK can get a job and pay for there own college
what ever you will do, you will never get a thanks from SK
First, re the house and move.
First, re the house and move. It is possible to be looking at a house in a good school district because it vastly helps resale to make sure you are in a good school district. Even if you don't have kids in school it is possible your next buyers will. However, since you know BM is inclined to give up her full custody at times.. I don't think you are being too cautious to be thinking that could also be a possibility. I'm curious what the boy's issues are and whether they only arose when BM took back custody or whether they came out of time he was living full time with you.
Second about college money for SD. This is a situation that I think will be best handled by meeting his "manipulation" with direct response. "DH, when we met, you agreed that you would make saving for retirement a priority and that you realized that meant you would be able to save little to nothing for your children's education. If they went to school that would mean that they would need to save, work or borrow the funds (get scholarships etc). Now, I agree that SD has worked very hard and has gotten a good scholarship but that it doesn't cover every need especially since she is insisting on going to a private institution vs a public one that would be more reasonable. Now, ultimately this is her choice, but it's also her responsibility to figure out how to meet the difference in her expenses. I have already compromised and allowed for us to provide her with $5k per year. THAT was my compromise because we were starting from the mutually agreed upon position that you would be unable to give her ANY money. The more that I feel badgered and pressured into increasing this amount, the more resentful I become about giving any money to her because anything is against our original agreement. Of course I'm proud of her accomplishments, but when you keep on pushing for more, it really takes all the joy of giving any assistance away from me. I am going to be very clear. $5k is the amount that I am happy with... it is a compromise from $0. I will consider this our last discussion regarding this subject. Further attempts to get me to change my mind are going to result in a change to $0."
Personally I already told DH
Personally I already told DH we're not paying for the skid's college. They can work hard and get scholarships if they want help...
Your DH isn't even being subtle... He seems controlling and manipulative... Make sure you're taking care of yourself and take a step back for a second. Make sure you know what's going on, particularly before you financially invest anymore.
Go get an index card and
Go get an index card and print "I am not paying more than $x for college for SD" in large red letters. Anytime this subject comes up hand him this card and walk away.
Do the same with "SS is not going to live with us fulltime."
When you have decided on something just state your position and refuse to debate it.
This is a great article by
http://wednesdaymartin.com/blog/stepmother-top-concern-3-they-dont-appre...
This is a great article by Wednesday Martin that mentions having a stepfamily contract. So you can have one that says I will not pay for skids' college or I will pay x amount. We will put x amount in our retirement every month, etc. etc. My DH and I did this regarding SS9. We went through all of the expenses related to SS (which came to almost half of our mortgage payment every month!) so we decided that the excessive amount of CS can be used toward college, a car, etc. by BM.
It's not right for him to wear you down and expect you to contribute to skids who may or may not (most likely may not) appreciate it at all. Your DH and you are a unit and as a unit should be putting your marriage first, then your shared bio kids, then skids (as skids are already "put first" in most stepfamilies financially already).
Game's on
This is a game you play with him. He badgers you until you give in. You gripe about it and he wins. You aren't leaving, you love him. So stop playing the game.Just stop.
Tell him he can give SD the same amount he puts into retirement savings. He puts in $100 a month, she gets $100 a month. Does he want to be limited to his retirement to trolling the local supermarket? Or does he want to travel? Or does he want to buy a boat? Or a camper? Or retire and buy a hobby car or even a better car than now?
So change the rules of the game. He wants to spend? He has to match it into retirement savings. He can send SD all he wants but has to put the same amount into savings. This way he cannot touch it. If he doesn't want to do this, the girl gets nothing. This money is for the future and if he has kids heading off to college ... well he better not blink or he will be retiring before he knows it. And he is off on the back foot anyway having a bankruptcy and divorce under his belt. He has to run to catch up. Now if he wants to give her $9K a year he better have $9k to put into retirement savings and not change your lifestyle as it is. Good luck!
Thanks everyone for your
Thanks everyone for your comments. They are very helpful. And, although I would never want anyone to go through the similar things that I am, it's nice to be able to commiserate with others.
I've come to the conclusion that he is manipulating me because he wants to give more to his daughter for school. I understand that he wants to help her and he feels like he has the money, so to him it's no big deal. And, I think he's doing it manipulatively because he did make a promise to me that he was not going to give the skids money for college, so he's trying to make himself and me think that it was completely my choice to give her the money. I'm pretty upset with this revelation because I know this is not the only occurence, just the biggest one. He's gone back on many things that he's promised me, probably because if he didn't make those promises I would have left him long ago. Now, we have a child together, so I'm not leaving him; I'm going to work it out. But, at this moment, none of his words are believable to me and I have to figure out how to address this and fix it.
Thanks again everyone.
Please please please if you
Please please please if you're going to stay with him - don't make the reason as "for the sake of the child". That is not a reason to stay. There are plenty of single parents who do it just fine on their own. My parents " stayed together for the children". Let me tell you - it was awful. My brother and I used to wish they'd divorce! Then at least we could have lived in 2 happy homes instead of 1 miserable, cold, distant and tense home. It sucked.
I tried to make it work, for better or worse, with my exH. For better or worse. Worse means unexpected job loss or illness or injury. Worse does NOT include abuse. Any sort of abuse or cheating or purposeful mistreatment of any kind. My exH was an alcoholic who tore our lives apart.
If you're going to stay - be it because you are both working on building a better relationship. NOT because you have a child together so will endure the abuse. Children pick up on that. PLUS they observe and you will unwillingly teach your child what they should put up with in a relationship. How they should act to their partner. The mistreatment they should stick around for...cuz mommy does...
Think about that. Please.