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Daycare Reimbursement Insanity

NeverendingFightmare's picture

PLEASE HELP ME GAIN INSIGHT ON THIS, if there is any. 
Before I get into it, let me give you the facts. 

Facts:

State: NY

DH income : around 55k gross 

CS BM1: 300 every other week, age 10

CS BM2: 400 every other week + 46% of daycare or medical , age 2.5

BM2 Income: around 110k gross 

Original court date : July 2020

Taken back to court : BM2 filed in January 2021 (court date soon) for inconsistent daycare reimbursement 

CS ARREARS: No

Daycare Reimbursement Arrears: Yes

 

BM2 enrolled child in daycare at the rate of 350 a week. She also does not work year round and enjoys summers off, etc. I'm sorry, but if she is demanding another $322 dollars (in addition to the 400) every other week (his prorata portion) out of my DH 55k salary, then I want to stick by what the actual law says, which is that reimbursement for daycare must be work-related or for the mom to attend school or looking for work. 

I found the actual section of the state law where it said just that ... word for word and we sent it, but she states that this is just our interupption of the law and we are liable to pay whether she goes to work on not. 

do you think we are actually liable to pay this year round? 

DH only communicates with her via email at this point due to the vindicating, lying and sick ways on BM2 to do whatever it is she can to ruin our lives (for some reason). 

The first time in court, all required documents were sent and the support magriagtate did not deduct prior CS order in place that was paid per his divorce agreement with BM1. Our prorata was also based on her 2019 income for the only year she happened to make 30k less then normal. Husband made slightly more. Her payroll records are posted online so it's not that hard to see for myself that she filed for CS after the only year her pay dipped 30k. 

We hired an attorney prior to her sending a violation for inconsistent payment of add on expenses. That was 3500 we borrowed. He Doesn't guarantee or give me me hope future payments will be based on what is fair. He just now got around to sending us a 2 page affidavit after being retained for almost two months. court still doesn't even know my DH even has a lawyer. It's like a waste of 3500 at this point. 

The child started daycare in November. My DH gets paid every two weeks. In December, our whole house had Covid and he did not get paid time off because he used it all for our child's major surgery and complications thereafter, also in the late summer of 2020. My husband qualified for no Covid assistance during that time frame. 

It feels literally impossible to catch up with the daycare reimbursement on top of everything else. My DH does have expenses related to actually getting to work and im Not sure how much more I can take on. Do they expect me to just pay his entire full net check without any additional for things like his food  or his gas to get to work. Or is that just my responsibility now ? 

I have gotten a second FT job at home to keep us afloat. I am a professional and was able to be a single mom supporting me and my daughter (with the house I owned) but it was tight. Now it's like I have to support two additional people plus cover everything support related that his salary won't, as well?
 

I'm sorry,  this is why I don't feel like we should pay for daycare for summers off or even weeks off when child  is not even attending. even if he did attend, why should we paying so she can have some time to herself ? The law states work related only. And I'm over here working two jobs to support everyone. 
 

For example - his paycheck Friday was net 1344 for two weeks. So 400 + 300 mandatory support child supports and then 600 paid to try to catch up with daycare payments. I was only left with 44 dollars from his check? How exactly am I ever supposed to catch him up when it grows at such an increasing rate and there just isn't enough out of his check every paycheck  considering he does have his portion of cell phone and car insurance.... or even simple items like his own food. 
 

I can't imagine if he had to afford any basic necessities of life. 
 

I am growing extremely bitter and angry. Not about being the breadwinner, but for being indirectly responsible and bullied into paying this money. It feels like I am working so much harder in life that really is just for her benefit.

I never met or spoke with BM and due to all that has already happened (which I did not even include in the info above), I just can't stand to think the next two decades will consist of having to keep going to court for more and more and more money that just is not there.

Not looking for  judgements or advice to simply get divorced. I just want to know if YOU think we are required to pay daycare year round when not always needed ? 

Comments

tog redux's picture

I'm in NY too and I know the non-custodial parent pays full support regardless of overnights. But my DH paid 1000/month for one kid on a 99K salary. How on earth is yours paying so much on 55K? Did he agree to it? In our case BM made 100K and they capped their combined income at 136k and took the share each owed from there. So your DH's CS should be much lower.

As for the daycare, we never had to pay it, but that needs to be fought too. 

NeverendingFightmare's picture

I understand paying a correct prorata share based on actual incomes, considering the other child support paid and it being for only work purposes. But to be responsible during the summer for her to sit on the beach for example or vacations or when he is not in daycare, it doesn't seem right. At least not when it's care that costs 350 a week.

I know she will fight this saying she needs to reserve his spot and therefore full year payments are required. but the actual law says work purposes so I don't know what will happen but it's scary for me. 
 

The constant demand for extra is killing me. 
 

Her w2 salary was mid 70s in 2019 (online it said her rate of pay was 110k a year but somehow got paid less ) . She filed in early 2020 but got delayed due to Covid. It seems like fraud to me that she coincendetally filed after having such  drop in income for one year. 2020 she is back up to full earnings per online records. 
 

His earnings was low 60s. That's how they came up with the 46%. 
 

there should be a major adjustment considering support 1 was never backed out and correct % based on correct incomes. 
 

ugh ! I can't stand this. 

tog redux's picture

If your DH is able to be confident in court and argue his own case, you can do it pro se.  And he should argue that HE can be daycare for the kid.

NeverendingFightmare's picture

She will not allow the child to be with us without supervision. And we have absolutely no money to fight this. She has already made so many false accusations and threats, that to start a custody war would be way too much. She already threatened psychological evulations (which we would have to pay for) and already threatened CPS. Why? Not sure. Her child never once came to my house. Yet, she wanted pictures of every room of my house. She does not even know our address. 

NeverendingFightmare's picture

She is a guidance counselor (how scary) so she knows the system as far as what would if she did such and such. 

Aunt Agatha's picture

Honestly, your lawyer should be telling you the laws in NY.

I don't mean this to sound harsh.  Why is your DH having kids he clearly can't afford, then leaving you to be upset and trying to figure it out? This should 100% be on him with him taking on extra jobs to make this work.

It sounds like you'd be better off going back to your single life until he figures his problems out.  
 

As you are headed right now, your relationship with DH isn't likely to survive the anger you have.
 

 BMs can ask - and many times get - what they want.  $3500 is very cheap for a lawyer so odds are good he's not the cream of the crop as you are seeing.
 

Plus, if I'm not mistaken, Child support in NY state goes well above 18 years old. So you have literally YEARS of this.

Is poverty what you want for the next 20 years? Because unless your DH makes some serious changes, with 2 BMs the nonsense will be ongoing.

I wish I had more to offer.

tog redux's picture

Yes, it goes to 21. But he is paying an unfair amount. My DH got a better deal than that, and he went without an attorney. They need to beg borrow and steal to get an attorney to fight this. He's paying $2800 in support plus daycare on a 55K salary. NY is mother friendly but he got screwed worse than usual. 

NeverendingFightmare's picture

It's cheap if it's a custody issue, but for a child support modification, I still feel like the attorney is screwing us too. She does not have an attorney, yet. 

DH could take the extra jobs but I have the earning potential. He watches our baby so he doesn't have to go to daycare and he works nights. If he got two jobs, and had to pay support out of additional income, it would be peanuts actually gained for our family. 
 

Yes, child support until 21. 

 

tog redux's picture

DH went without an attorney, but he only had one BM to contend with. She did have an attorney - but it was all cut and dry. They just applied the formula and that was it, BM didn't get to argue that she deserved more or anything.  The only unfairness was that his 99K salary was actually only 85K, he'd gotten a stock buy-out for that one year, so that was crappy. And he paid another 100 a month for health insurance for him.

Your DH got royally screwed somehow. If he's good at arguing, he should just go pro se and give it a try.  It's a magistrate, not a judge (at least in my county), and they just apply the formula based on financials. He should also revisit it with the other BM, he's paying way too much for her too.

 

Aunt Agatha's picture

They should fight if it's an unfair amount.  I just think it's also unfair that he is not doing the extra work - home based or not - to pay his bills.

OP, you are truly getting the wrong end of the stick.  What other options do you both have?  If he is at home, is he looking at getting additional education online so he can make more money once the coursework is completed, for example?  What options/resources is he looking for?

You seem to literally be doing it all.

tog redux's picture

The problem is, his CS will go UP if he takes another job, unless he addresses this first (or works under the table). He's paying way more than 17% of his income for each of these kids.

And he should be able to argue that since he's home every day with their baby, HE can be the daycare provider for the skid.

NeverendingFightmare's picture

Clarification : he is home everyday with the baby we share together, who is disabled. Even if I could pay for daycare for our child and we both worked 24 hours a day, it would be hard to do considering his disease. I'd rather work my two jobs from Home and husband works nights. He needs frequent doctors visits and specialists so it's just not feasible to put our baby in daycare. 

tog redux's picture

He couldn't watch the skid along with your baby? NM, I see your other response about BM.

 

NeverendingFightmare's picture

As I mentioned above, she will not allow us to see him without supervision. We would have to go through a separate custody court for that, which then gets very pricey and there is no way to pay for this. She has already threatened to make claims of demanding psychological evaluations (which cost thousands and we would have to pay for). The drama with this woman has been nonstop. 

NeverendingFightmare's picture

He does everything he can in addition to working FT nights and watching our baby during the day. Example- laundry, cooking,  helping clean up, he also takes care of my daughter while I'm working. He appreciates all the hard work I put in to financially support the family.  He does whatever I need or ask for. 
 

Also, we are in a unique position because we have a child born with a critical defect that already underwent major surgery and needs lifelong care and also, came close to death.
 

Because of his condition, and that major trauma we faced together, it's not all about the money and who can bring home the money. We are best friends. He is not taking advantage of me and he literally does not spend any other money. He asked me today if he could get a windshield wiper for his car. If he was a man that went out with his friends, bought a crap for his car, spent money on booze or at bars, I would totally understand what you may think, but that is definitely not the case. Whenever he is not at work, he is home and helping me get it all done in whatever way he can.  
 

and if we did spilt, it's not like I could ever get support since there is nothing left so I am not sure what I would gain in that situation? 
 

lastly, my almost 5 year old daughter hasn't seen her dad in 4 years and he has become that role in her life. It would probably hurt her too if we separated. 
 

I just am so tired of this woman's drama and her demands and what extra stress she adds. Without that, it would be a great situation all around. 

ESMOD's picture

I like the suggestion of him asking that he could provide the daycare (since he already is at home caring for the other child right?).

I can see why they get daycare all through the year because most daycares prefer to not have kids coming in and out.. they want a full "baseload" of income.  So..if she needs daycare for the child... she likely has to pay year round.. remember.. she is also paying more than 50% of the daycare for the child.  It's likely she coulnd't find a daycare that would allow her to stop paying for chunks of the year.  

I agree with the others offering that he needs to work towards a review of CS and other obligations.

I mean.. I get that he needs to support ALL his kids.  It was his choice to continue to have more kids.. even after he had a first and then a second CS award that wiped him out financially.  Honestly, I would be fairly frustrated with the situation too.. but he should be the one that gets a lion's share of the blame because he is the one that set this all situation up... by having all these kids when his income was not really enough to fully support everyon including himself.

That doesn't mean that you should have to bear it all... but if you are with him.. it sounds like that is how it works out.. and that's not fair...but I guess that is part of the "package" he comes with.. hopefully he has some success in reducing his financial burden.. but how much.. who knows.. right now he brings in 88/month.. how much more could be expected... he couldn't rent a cardboard box for the weekend at that rate.. you will have to get comfortable toting most of the load for him if you stay... otherwise you would be better off alone.

NeverendingFightmare's picture

Well, also the timing of watching the two kids would Not work. She would need 7am-3pm and I need 12-6. We do not live close (hour or so away) and he is only getting home from work at 5am. He would have to skip sleeping althougher to then drive and pick him up then travel back and forth for drop off and watch my son till 6pm and then go to work again. That would be logistically impossible.... even if we were allowed or had the money to fight for right to see the child. 
 

BM1 is from a 10 year marriage and BM2 got pregnant 2 weeks in. Should he have been more responsible, yes. However, there is absolutely zero to be done about that now. And to keep bringing that up in our relationship is pointless because everyone makes mistakes. Would I want someone badgering me on a mistake I made that had such severe consequences that I deal with on a daily basis ? Not really. 
 

as far as child care, I would hate to be obligated to pay all year when not required for work purposes especially when it cost 350 per week. I wouldn't fight it as much if I had to pay a percentage on 600 a month (which I pay for care for my daughter) . Keep in mind all that money is deduction on her tax return, as well. She is reaping all the benefits too. I just want things fair. That is all I am looking for. 

ESMOD's picture

I do get that you would like to see things more fairly distributed.. but there is fair from "everyone's" perspective.

His first BM likely doesn't see it as fair if her CS were to be reduced because he chose to have a child with BM2... and BM1 and BM2 would not see it as fair that he chose to have a THIRD child with you as a reason why his CS should be reduced to THEM.   They don't care that you are bearing the cost of your household ... they just want him to pay his CS to them for the kids he created with them. And I guess the courts are inclined to agree to the benefit of the children that his decision to have more kids isn't supposed to cut his other kids short.  I know in a "bio" family.. that a joint decision by parents to have more kids may result in fewer resources per child.. but in divorce.. they don't like the idea of dad moving on to make more kids and wanting to force limits on pmts to the first children.

I get that you love him.  I get that it is not sustainable for your relationship to dwell on the fact that this situation is almost 100% his doing.  The best you can hope for is that you can get legal support that will figure out a way to stem the bleeding and leave him with some small amount of income.  The CS you mention is not unusual for daycares.. my OSD  has two kids in daycare in a rural area and she pays almost $2K per month... I can only imagine in a higher cost area it would be more.  And.. again.. his EX probably has to keep the kid enrolled and pay "full time year round" to keep his spot in daycare.. whether she "needs" to keep him in there during the summer or not.  

It sounds like she is a teacher.. perhaps in a few years.. that CS obligation can be reduced or go away when the child starts attending school... but there will likely be a ramping up of requests for extra curriculars.. camps.. sports..etc.. the handouts from his two EXes is not likely to end for many many years.

So... right now, he needs to try to get the best "deal" he can paying CS.. and you need to decide whether it is something you can live with.. because right now it sounds like you are covering 100% of his cost of living.. plus yours and your child's..  It can't be easy... and unfortunately.. it may be something you will have to learn to deal with because it comes with the "package" of him.

 

tog redux's picture

He's overpaying by a huge margin.  He should only be paying 17% for one kid, he's paying way more than that for each of them.  And typically it does go down some for the second one.

They got screwed for sure.

ESMOD's picture

Is it supposed to be "net" or gross?

55K x .17% is 779/month.. which is a little more than the 600/mo he pays on the first.. and a little less than the 800/mo he pays on the 2nd.   

does the 17% normally include "extras" like medical costs.. daycare etc.. or can they be ordered over and above?

It sounds like he has been hit with the "max"... and maybe from what you are saying.. he has a good case to have some reduction.  I certainly hope so.. because that burden is non-sustainable.. and is absolutely going to push all the family cost onto OP otherwise..which I don't see anyone able to do without resentment for only but so long.

tog redux's picture

Oh right, I read it as he had to pay it EVERY week. It's not as bad as I thought.  But he shouldn't be paying the same for both - I don't think you pay 17% for the second as well, but I'm not sure.

No, that does NOT include medical, daycare or anything else - those are above and beyond.

NeverendingFightmare's picture

They should have deducted the cost of the first support from the second support, which would lessens the gross income and biweekly support. Also with their actual incomes, his prorata share will be 31%, not 49%. 
 

This will help. I just wanted to know everyone's thoughts on full year daycare if the parent does not work full year. That part seems really unfair to me because the actual state laws state otherwise. Technically, we shouldn't have to legally pay. I guess it's up to the magristrate/ judge, whichever it is at the date next. 
 

also, it bugs me she thinks she can demand whatever she wants and make up whatever lies she wants. My husband has pretty much lost his entire family because of this as well. 
 

she is the type to send the kid to private school if it meant we had to pay more. Just for the vengeance aspect of it I guess. 

tog redux's picture

Welcome to the world of high conflict BMs.

BM here did send SS to private school, but she had to pay for it. I don't think he would be ordered to do so. But he will likely be ordered to help pay for college, unfortunately.

ESMOD's picture

I think that it probably qualifies because she needs daycare to do her job.. even though her job may have some periods of time off.. it can be difficult to find daycare for "only certain times" of the year.. because the daycare may not be able to "fill the spot" vacated for those couple of months.. or weeks here or there.  So they require full year commitments.. or they won't hold a spot leaving the parents scrambling when they return to work.. and the daycare may be preferred for a variety of reasons.. proximity to home.. quality of care/enrichment of the child etc.. 

In other words.. BM may not have a lot of options other than to arrange for FT throught the whole year care.. even though there are periods of the year where she doesn't necessarily need it due to her work schedule.

If she were to pull the child from daycare for the summer.. the daycare could fill his spot.. and it might not be open when she does need it for her work.

So... since BM is employed "full time" for her profession.. even though there is a seasonal component to her job.. I think that the state would still consider this a reasonable expense.

 

tog redux's picture

I just googled it and I don't believe so. I don't believe they would consider her holding the spot through the summer as reasonable for him to pay.

ESMOD's picture

Ok... I could see someone trying to use that as a reason.. like my SD uses a daycare.. and there are not tons of them around.. and not tons that might offer flexibility or proximity.. so I could see the daycare insisting on the child attending or at least paying for a fairly set amount each month.. to hold the spot.  That is different than the state considering that time still needed though.

I would have a lawyer look at the wording in THEIR contract order specificially.. what she found may be a state minimum guideline.. but that doesn't mean it applies in their situation.

NeverendingFightmare's picture

We already retained the lawyer in the first few days of January and he has not even filed anything yet. He took way too much time preparing two pages of an affidavit. Hopefully, he will represent us somewhat. Technically, since they never acknowledged our original paperwoek or prior support, we were told they would not acknowledge it with any future changes. 
 

BM makes her own laws and distorts it to what she wants. Example - she demands reimbursement claims must be paid in 2 weeks or we are in contempt per Judge xxx. No matter what the amount. He never specified a time frame. He just said reasonable, which she now determined to be 2 weeks. 

tog redux's picture

Do you go in front of a judge or a magistrate? Here it's the magistrate and it was much less formal and easier to go pro se.

NeverendingFightmare's picture

It was a magistrate and he was horrible. I'd almost rather go to a judge who will actually even glance at the information I submitted, including valid deductions such as prior support orders. I'm not sure why they even ask for all of the financial information if in the end, it does not even get looked at. 

tog redux's picture

Yes, that's true, they don't even look at it. They just apply the standard formula. Sounds like you do need a good attorney - can you borrow money to pay one? It will be worth it in the end.

NeverendingFightmare's picture

Yes, we already retained one in the beginning of January. We borrowed it and have to pay it back with our tax refund. It was 3,500. He has not filed a single document in court as of yet. IMO, we got scammed and it's professional negligence. But, I cannot afford to hire a second attorney. 
 

hopefully something gets done! 

tog redux's picture

So have DH immediately demand the return of his retainer, minus any amount he's used already in phone calls, emails etc.

He should have filed the following week after getting your retainer. Cut him loose.

Winterglow's picture

Eh? Why are they looking at your finances? The leeches want a cut of your earnings too? 

tog redux's picture

If they have joint finances, they have to be submitted. We had to submit our tax return and any joint finances we had.

Exjuliemccoy's picture

When I married my DH, he was paying cs for his three kids (seven, ten, and twelve) by two BMs. Like you, I had love goggles on and didn't fully consider the financial ramifications of legally joining myself to someone with so much debt. Had I ran the numbers dispassionately, I would either have moved on to someone else or just lived togther. DH was kid poor, and lucky to find a woman who was willing to help support him.

We too went through the hassle of hiring an inept attorney. He took our retainer, then did nothing for months. It took a visit to his office and an uncomfortable face to face, but we got the full retainer back. Your H can threaten to file a complaint with your state Bar Association.

Have you considered divorcing on paper, but staying together? There can be advantages to this, so look into it. Then you could file for cs.

Bottom line is, look out for your own interests and those of your bios FIRST. And for goodness sake, double up on the contaceptives.

thinkthrice's picture

Although Chef only had one BM, but 3 ferals which the BM (Girhippo) would withhold visitation routinely or do a dump and run when she was internet dating. 

Chef would often come home with less than $50 a week as well after exorbitant CS was paid which was plumped up with extra monies allocated for extra curricular activities and non existent daycare (Gir's BM would claim to babysit for more than what a daycare would charge.)

They photoshopped and acrobatted pay stubs and receipts, all phoney, but the anti father magistrate bought it all.   Especially when  Chef overpaid the middle class status braces three times over and the magistrate shrugged his shoulders. 

I would definitely divorce and just live together so you don't show your info.  They DO count the "other members of the family's income" to the extent that it "frees up" biodad's income to pay even more CS.

New York SUCKS!

tog redux's picture

I think it's a county by county thing, they didn't do any of that to DH - they went solely on his income and actually capped the combined income at 148.

 

thinkthrice's picture

You are in,  but OP's and my case are the rule rather than the exception.   I see what goes on in the surrounding five county area under CSEUs.