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OT- Covid Vaccine and DD13

justmakingthebest's picture

First, please move on if you want to debate the vaccine. 

Everyone in my family is vaccinated with the exception of my sister, her husband and DD13. My sister won't get it because they are going to start TTC soon (ok... Kind of get it, I would be more understanding if she were actually pregnant). Anyway, because of my sister and TicTok crap DD is refusing. The vaccine clinics won't force someone to get it. They can't treat it like a required vaccine. 

DD is very head strong, bigger than me and I can at my wits end. The school district we are in is 'masks optional' and with the delta variant I am not comfortable pushing this off any longer. 

Any ideas on how to get her into the clinic? I am to the point where if she refuses when she gets back from her dad's I am going to take everything she has from her and keep our TV's all playing scenes of covid and intubation! 

DD says she doesn't want it because of fertility issues for her later in life (I am seriously not worried about this), she has also been watching stupid videos about it being tracking devices and that you become magnetic after you get the shot - I swear to DOG this girl is driving me up a wall and if she calls me a "sheep" one more time because of this vaccine I might slap her. I love my daughter, I swear I do but I am not good at dealing with stupidity. 

Comments

TheAccidentalSM's picture

Here's an article I read today which might help a bit.

Here’s why your efforts to convince anti-vaxxers aren’t working | Brooke Harrington | The Guardian

Seems like you need to get someone from her tribe to do the influencing.  Is there anyone she admires who has changed their mind recently?

Edit:  On the tracking devices, ask her if she'd like to give up her electronics since she's so worried about being tracked.  None of the big tech need to inject a chip into us, we are already addicted to our tracking devices aka phones.

justmakingthebest's picture

I will look for that article. I wish that my sister would talk to her but they are very anti-vaxxer people in general, fertility is just her excuse right now that people will say "Oh, ok, we just don't know". 

We have tried the phone argument.. she rolls her eyes and calls DH and I "Sheep" and "Stupid Democrats" (which is far from the truth!- but that is neither here or there)

justmakingthebest's picture

Oh no, she gets in trouble for that! I refuse to allow disrespect for either DH or I in my home. 

It is just this is her hill to die on and she is willing to burn it to the ground apparently! 

TheAccidentalSM's picture

I wish the link had worked to the article (my tech doesn't interact well with this site).  The gist of it is that you have to help/con her into having an off ramp from her current position that doesn't lose her social standing.  She's built a part of her sense of self about being her own person when it comes to the vaccine.  She needs to feel that she's the one making the change.  The psycology in the article is all about how to get the Mark in a con not to react badly to the Con artist by getting a person known as a Cooler to get the Mark to see the con as being their own fault.  Not explaining this well, but the point about an off ramp where she can still hold her sense of pride is pretty vital.

justmakingthebest's picture

Awesome! I will definitely look into that article. 

I don't want to have to FORCE her and if there is a way of getting her to see the other side, I would much rather that happen! 

advice.only2's picture

God Tik-Tok is the worst when it comes the anti-vaxing crap. We got our BD15 vaccinated, she really didn't get a say, they opened up a shot clinic for her age range and we took her, it was a drive through one so that helped. I would honestly take your BD13 to an actual doctor and have them explain to her about the vaccine and what it really entails. Remind her that just because a person puts on a lab coat and does a Tik-Tok video does not make that an "expert" or even an actual doctor. Also I had a friend whose daughter was pregnant and got vaccinated and has no issues and the plus side her baby could potentially be born with antibodies.
ETA: BD15 breezed through both her shots, her arm was sore on the second one and that was it. BD15 is starting back at in person schooling, but here in CA she will still have to wear a mask even with her vaccine.

Cover1W's picture

This is what I was going to say.

Articles from local medical research facilities? I'd stay away from CDC stuff since she's likely reacting to that due to misinformation.

She's 13! I get bodily autonomy but this is not exactly something a teen understands, it's more serious. Hopefully she'll get vaccine for the flu, measles, HPV? Take her to the doctor.

The above info for removing her devices is good too if she's afraid of being tracked....too late darlin. Also ramifications...no going out without a mask, no going out much at all really, no friends over, etc. Until she is vaccinated. 

HowLongIsForever's picture

The Pfizer vaccine is expected to be authorized in the coming weeks (not just EUA).  

That may not make a difference in her thought process but it does open the door to mandates.  There is plenty of precedent here.

There is also considerably more data available on the COVID vaccines distributed via EUA (on sheer volume) than many authorized that we don't give a second thought. 

If her hang up is the COVID vaccine and not vaccination in general I think that requires a different approach then general vaccine education, though the latter would be helpful either way.

As for bodily autonomy and the power of choice, I wouldn't focus on making the decision for her but on her understanding that decisions have consequences.  

She is free to remain unvaccinated but that status will require her to play by different rules than those in the home that are vaccinated.  It will impact her outside the home, as well (even if locally you see a considerable resistance to the vaccination efforts).

Just remember, consequences are not punishment.

justmakingthebest's picture

Thankfully her dad and I are on the same page, she has to wear masks with us in public. It is easier for him because they have 3 at home that are still too young. Things are about to get really hard for her when it comes to life at home. She is going to be on basically quarantine with the exception of school. I am also going to personally email all of her teachers saying that she needs to wear the mask and if she won't to please contact me and I will come to school and sit in her freaking classroom until she can wear it like a big girl. 

justmakingthebest's picture

I just got a call from the husband of one of our clients. Wife is 28 and has covid and in the hospital with liver failure, we have to stop construction on their house. 

This is all so crazy. 

TheAccidentalSM's picture

I'm so sorry for your client.  This disease is so unpredicatable.

lieutenant_dad's picture

As a parent, you have to do what you have to do to protect your daughter. So do that.

To protect her, she will do virtual learning this year. She'll not get to go shopping or to enclosed public places. No intimate gatherings with friends. She can see them outside with 6 feet of distance between them. She double-masks anytime she has to go anywhere (unless you can find a KN95 mask). 

She has a choice, but that choice comes with consequences. If she really is worried about tracking devices, then you have a calm conversation with her about how her phone is used to mine data and track her internet searches. Then take the phone and give her a flip phone without data. If she's worried about fertility, give her reading assignments from doctors and researchers in the field about how that's not a concern with the vaccine, but very much so is with COVID and men.

What she is is uneducated. You need to provide that education, and consequences. I think a great question to ask her is "if you do get COVID, how much medical intervention do you want?" When she looks at you confused, explain that since she is having trouble trusting health care providers now that you want to know how far she wants the doctors to go to try and save her since there is very limited treatment and intubation is less life-saving and more life-sustaining (in a coma until your body just gives out) and extremely expensive. Y'all will go bakrupt trying to save her, and is she cool with that?

If she is going to make the decision to not get vaxxed, then she needs to think it all the way through. I highly doubt she has, but if that is her decision, then you do everything else you can to protect her.

justmakingthebest's picture

Thank you Lt dad! 

This is going to be a miserable battle. 

fakemommy's picture

Ugh. I'm sorry, this is really hard. I understand body autonomy, but the vaccine isn't just about her health. Have you tried bribes instead of threats?

justmakingthebest's picture

I am not even sure what I could do to bribe her but no, I haven't. Any ideas for a spoiled 13 yr old?? 

Crspyew's picture

have a wealth of information explaining the science behind the mRNA vaccines, how they work and why scientists were able to develop the COVID vaccine so quickly.  So much better than tik took or right wing conspiracy sites just maybe not as fun.

I would also recommend taking her to a trusted health care provider to discuss the vaccine so that she has facts not conjecture.

I would also start researching and sharing articles on the current case and hospitalization rates.  Fun little facts like the higher the vaccination rate the lower the hospitalization rate.  Or states where the sheep live (blue states) with higher vaccination rates are not running out of icu beds.

unless she's ready to give up all processed foods, all electronics and cosmetics her argument abt future fertility concerns is moot.

finally I'd assign her a research paper on how polio, measles, smallpox & chicken pox have been essentially eradicated, how the polio vaccine was given without any government approval, why and the outcome.

I am sick sick sick to death of the selfishness of antivaxxers.  Your body autonomy is not superior to mine. 

Merry's picture

Well, she probably won't accept information from NIH or CDC as that's all part of the conspiracy narrative.

If you can get her away from TikTok and other unreliable sites, she might learn something. While all media are biased to some degree, there are ways to identify that. This chart shows one analysis of where various media outlets fall on the scale: https://www.allsides.com/media-bias/media-bias-chart

I know there is more to this than just fact -- but it's a place to start. Science literacy is abyssmal, as is media literacy. Combine the two and it is quite literally deadly.

 

 

Crspyew's picture

I just can't get past the fact that we have politicized a public health crisis.  Science literacy is a thing of the past.  My social media feed is full of "facts" from non-qualified people.  People do not understand that medical guidance and science change as more data and knowledge accrue.  We don't see leeches being applied much any more do we?  I thought a little bit of research might be helpful.  This young lady will never have chicken pox and it literally almost killed my sister less than 40 years ago.

justmakingthebest's picture

That was my big thing with masks in schools. Yes, masks suck. Yes, they are horrible to have to wear all day. 

HOWEVER- your family being cool with not wearing is not ok with me. My kids deserve all the protection that we can give them and when it comes to young children that have nothing to protect them BUT the masks, sit down, shut up and wear the damn thing. 

Survivingstephell's picture

My dad died of Covid in May.  In Florida on a ventilator.  His last words were "I wish I would have gotten the shot".  I have a 12 BD and fortunately we had no fight with her, in fact she was more apprehensive about the poke than the vaccine.  She also had no choice. As soon as she qualified we got her in.  Why? We don't want her to die.  I'm with you that kids (who's brain in NOT finished maturing until 25 ish) is not qualified to make a decision like this.  I don't know if she works or babysits for people but if she does, or spends a lot of time with little ones who are not old enough to get a vaccine, but you could point out she will have a harder time getting work.  
 

Im kinda hardcore about this and I would just take her and force the issue. It's not like buying school supplies, this can have death as a consequence.  Or long lasting health issues.   I respect your judgment as her parent and encourage you to stand tough on this.  

justmakingthebest's picture

I am so sorry for your loss. My husband and I were quick to get ours due to my mom and cancer treatments. That is really why we all jumped at the chance. Once it opened up to teens, BS15 was one of the first in my dr's office to get it as a teen. DD13 just had dug her feet for some reason. I just can't keep letting her take this risk.

advice.only2's picture

Have you tried that angle with her? Not only will she be protecting herself from possible death, but she will also be helping to protect her loved ones (grandma, her littlest siblings) from possibly getting this and dying?

Stepdrama2020's picture

I have covid as I type. I was only partially vaccinated, I am fully now.

I can only imagine how sick I wouldve been without partial protection.

DANG people need to wise up. Hello anti vaxxers the way the world has been the last 18 months wouldve have been our world in entirety without vaccines. Be smart PLEASE.

If you were told one M&M was poisoned among your packet would you eat them? Your small chance of getting sick and dying can be minimized with the vaccine. Choose wisely.

Quartershu's picture

I am pro vaccine, but wanted my pediatricians opinion on my kids getting it. She does recommend it and could tell me why. Maybe take your daughter to the Dr and get the Dr to explain to her why she should get it and why it's safe.

ImFreeAtLast's picture

Does the Pediatrician have young children or young teenagers? I would want to know if he will or would honestly give this vaccine from a rushed new science to his children. I get a Flu shot every season as does my family. I have no qualms. The flu shot has been around for a long time and has reams of efficacy, safety, data for it. I chose to be vaccinated against COVID but I used critical thinking skills and a pro/con system. I'm way past child bearing years so my fertility didn't factor into my decision.

Also, the side effects from the covid vaccine we got was very, very intense. Way worse than I've experienced from flu shots. 

ImFreeAtLast's picture

I'm pro vaccines but I'm nervous for my under 13 children getting whatever COVID vaccine gets greenlighted for children. It won't be tested for a long time, nor have years upon years of use and lots of data like flu shots, pertussis. 

I'm also nervous because children get very ill with COVID and lots die from it. 

Maybe show your daughter articles of teens her age on ventilators or severely ill with COVID?

superlado's picture

Take it. Tell her no more so called researching by listening to randoms with no specified education on tik tok.  Tell her she can have her phone back after a visit to a doctor who is qualified to give actual medical advice.  
 

My body my choice is a narrative used for abortion rights.  Not a public health crisis due to infectious disease.   These are two completely different things with completely different public and social implications.  Someone posted a meme on my Instagram that those who push vaccines are pro-life, anti gay marriage, and I can't even remember the last one.  How are these different things even comparable or correlated ? Beats me. 
 

Good luck.  A 13 year old who wants to make her own medical decisions and act like an adult, can act like an adult in all aspects of life.  Go get a job and start paying rent kid.  

Powerfamily's picture

It's not just about dieing through is it.  A lot of younger people who get Covid and recover from it are suffering from Long Covid and are suffering from a lot of different long term health issues which are having a bigger impact on them and their futures.