E-mail to our lawyer
Last night DH texted SS trying one last time for a response to the cruise we booked for his spring break. Keep in mind when we spoke to him (the last time we spoke to him at the beginning of November) he was excited and wanted to go. However his behavior towards us after that point has really been horrible.
DH: Would love to talk to you about the upcoming cruise would appriceate a call back
SS: NO I am not going.
This response came in around 11 last night. I was asleep and DH came into the bedroom and was in tears by the end.
This is what he wrote the lawyer this morning:
Mr. Lawyer,
We need advice from you on what to do.
Please see the attached text from my son SS14. This is the first
communication with my son since November 18th via text, I haven't seen him
since November 19th, haven't spoken with him in person since September when
I left SS's TOWN during that trip back for the
wedding/conferences/football game and have not had a phone conversation with
him since we told him about the cruise prior to us leaving for Kansas and
Thanksgiving/court in November.
I have called two health and wellness checks and you have seen the response
I got from the second one where SS14 asked for me to stop calling the cops.
Do I continue with Health and Wellness Checks if my son isn't talking to me?
If so how often to excessive once a week, twice a month, once a month?
Should we go ahead and get a case opened with the military support services
on this? I'm leaning more and more towards doing this, am I over stepping?
Will it hurt the case if I do? Should we wait until we talk to the GAL?
We have until December 4th to make a decision on moving the dates. We have
until Dec. 30 to change his name. If we move the cruise and he doesn't come
out for Spring break because "SS14 doesn't want to" what happens? Is BM
in contempt? Is SS in contempt? If so what happens? If we do not move the
cruise and we book SS on it and BM doesn't send him, or SS refuses to
get on the airplane what happens? Is BM in contempt? Is SS in contempt?
If so what happens? I feel short of a judge telling BM and our son
differently they view the status que is fine with SS not talking to me,
seeing me, communicating with me his father, and nothing bad is going to
come of it. I get the feeling BM thinks if SS14 doesn't want to go see
his family in OUR STATE or go on a cruise, that is fine and nothing bad is going to
happen from it. I feel BM is perfectly fine with me not seeing my son
SS in SS STATE when I go back to visit and she truly thinks nothing bad is
going to happen from that either. Something has to give MR LAWYER!
We have not received the letter from the GAL yet and are afraid that we
won't be able to talk to him before we have to make the above decision.
Additionally we are very concerned that SSs response to talking to his
father is No, and paired with the statement "I am not going"-- seems like
very strong words.
To us this kind of behavior from a 14 year old is the beginning of "I am an
adult and can do what I want mentality". Kids that think they can make these
choices are kids that wind up making other choices like drinking, drugs,
sex, ect. We fear that this is the start of a very unhealthy path in life
for him. We feel that SS14 thinks that he can make a choice that not even
the judge can change it or do anything to him or his mother- THIS IS NOT
HEALTHY.
One of our ideas was to request counseling. DH can do teleconference and SS14
can be there. Something has to be done to get to the bottom of this. Not
being local is making this very difficult.
This kid has done an 180 degree flip since he was with us in OUR STATE in
August and it is really scary. We have never done anything wrong, we have
never done anything to get this reaction from him. A few weeks ago he was
excited and wanted to go on this trip with us. He asked about going on
another cruise almost every time we talked to him since the 1st one. Mexico
was one of his top choices for the 2nd Cruise! This is all so crazy!!
Whatever happened in that house since he spent the summer in OUR STATE had to be
major.
Please let us know what to do because we are lost.
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Comments
I don't know that there is
I don't know that there is much you can do. It seems that BM is trying her hardest to convicne SS of something. I honestly doubt it's something you did, it's really just whatever is going on THERE, with SS and BM.
Keep us updated on what the lawyer says, so sorry you're going through this
You left SS' name in there
You left SS' name in there toward the middle so you may want to edit that.
This sucks. I hope the lawyer's answers give DH the confidence to do what he has to do.
Thanks! Got it! :)
Thanks! Got it! :)
I would give up on taking SS
I would give up on taking SS on the trip. There's too great a risk that you'd be throwing your money away, and even if a judge says he has to come to you for visitation, he might ruin the trip for everyone. Change your dates and move the focus to the bigger picture. I'd be curious to see how the lawyer responds, although things have never gone your way no matter what the lawyer says. I hope that changes soon. At what point is your husband prepared to drop the rope? I thought he was close to that point.
I was going to post
I was going to post essentially the exact same thing.
I thought be both were. We
I thought be both were. We talked about it before he texted SS. We both worked through it, came up with a plan. Already have a back up person to take on the ship. Then when he texted it we were like... wow... (heart break).
Now making that change... it just hurts. We are struggling.
I'm so sorry, we went through
I'm so sorry, we went through this too, and it's awful, especially at first. My DH also did a wellness check and got an icy phone call from SS telling him it was none of his business how he was doing and to stop trying to find out. Click.
Nasty texts full of words that only BM could feed to him. DH struggled a lot at first, but after a few months of this, I convinced him that "giving up" and "letting go" are not the same thing. The more pressure DH puts on SS or the courts, the more BM will put on him in return. Dropping the rope, but keeping the door open, reduces the pressure.
DH should text SS that he's sorry he isn't going, you will all miss him, then put someone else in his spot. Finish this court process, but as DH already knows and said in his letter, if the judge doesn't see the issue, nothing will get done and SS will keep refusing visitation with no consequences for BM.
If that's the case, then DH has to "let go". Keep sending texts, emails, gifts, etc. to SS and make sure he knows DH is still there and still loves him, no matter what. SS still loves DH, but splitting his world into "Mom Good" and "Dad Bad" is the only way he can cope.
If it helps, my SS came back into our lives after 3 years of alienation (though mostly because BM wants more $$$). So it likely won't be forever.
This is so hard. I feel like
This is so hard. I feel like for this trip our hands are really tied. We have to change the dates. If SS still comes out for spring break, which is honestly likely, he will just spend it at our house instead of on a vacation. It will be a miserable week.
I am really struggling with that whole keep the door open and always "I love you no matter what" stuff. DH has been doing a lot of reading. Most of it says that up until now we have made all the right moves and we need to focus on reminding him that we love him no matter what.
My problem is - I am not a doormat. I am not a piggy bank. I refuse to be used. So where do we go? DH is feeling like I am. He even said more than once now that if he is expected to just fund the kid and never see or talk to him he is going to terminate rights. I guess that is something you can actually do in these situations in SS's state. Our lawyer did confirm that it was an option for us if things keep going this way.
"I love you and miss you"
"I love you and miss you" doesn't mean "What will it cost to buy you back?"
My DH did not respond to any efforts on BM or skid's part to manipulate him. At one point, SS was demanding stuff from our house, some of which DH was willing to give him. DH insisted he come to our house to get it rather than just putting it on the porch as he wanted. After a lot of back and forth, he did come over! (He'd been alienated for a year or so at that point). He stayed for two hours the first time and actually hugged DH and told him he loved him. We had one more visit after that before he PAS'd out again for 2.5 years. DH did not allow himself to be used and he still won't.
"I love you" just means that - I love you and I know this is a hard situation for you. The kid is being an asshole, but he's in a cult, effectively. He's in an abusive relationship where his best coping and survival strategy is to make DH the enemy to please his mother. It helped me to think about it like your kid has an addiction - you don't stop loving them, but you also don't enable and don't let them abuse you.
It's hard not to be angry though, I was very angry at SS, and even though he's back, he's still BM's pawn.
Even if your DH terminates his rights, will he really ever stop loving his son?
You guys are very wise. I
You guys are very wise. I hope we can be as strong as you!
Are you
100 percent positive that it is him answering the texts on his phone? Can you set up a time with the school counsellor where you can call and then talk to him at school verbally?
We went through this exact
We went through this exact thing with Ss-then 13 and BM. We had a trip to Hawaii planned and suddenly he didn't want to go We went without him and had a great time.
Recently SS18 is back with us (I need to post an update, BM is homeless). He says one of his greatest regrets in life was the Hawaii trip he missed. Wouldn't skip it again. He doesn't know why he bailed, it just felt right at the time.
But says he needed also to take care of his mom.
I don't know if that's the case for you but just know that as much as it feels like rejection its not always. I believe a lot of this is more about the enmeshment between mother and son in many of these cases.
Yes, yes. My SS said at
Yes, yes. My SS said at around 12, when asked by DH why he left with his mother on one of DH's visit weekends, "I just feel sorry for her. I don't know why, I just do."
Kids who are easily alienated feel a strong need to care for their parent. My SS is totally enmeshed with BM, and has trouble thinking clearly when he's with her about his father - he doesn't know what are his thoughts and what are hers.
It's really not one bit about rejection, underneath. In all the stuff I've read about adults who were alienated kids, they say the alienated parent can't give up on them, they still love them.
OP, your SS's best hope is for your DH not to give up on him. Believe me, I had the very same wish, but if he's ever going to have a healthy future, he needs a healthy dad to come back to.
What caused all of this was
What caused all of this was you guys sticking your noses into and disproving BM"s bullsh@t false claims of SS's health. How dare your call out and prove that the GUBM is essentially a LIAR!
So where do you go from here? Well you pretty much learn to let go and get on with your lives, that doesn't make you a failure or a quitter or mean you don't love and care about SS, it just means you aren't going to continue this down and dirty fight with BM.
Personally I have never had enough time in my day to find new and hurtful ways to screw people over, but some people do have that time, and it sounds like BM is one of them. She knows she's got the courts on her side and she's got SS refusing to even communicate with DH at this point, so for her the battle isn't all that difficult. You are the ones paying out the a$$ and having to come up with new strategies when BM is already 20 steps ahead because she's the one who is in control.
Ultimatly at this point all DH is causing is resentment. SS has told DH he doesn't want to see him...yes it hurts, but he's telling even the courts this and the older he gets and the more he says NO the more the courts will listen. Is it truly what SS wants, probably not, but he's getting fed the kool-aide 24/7 and you know if he even shows a wiff of love for his dad, then PASing BM gives him a double dose of the kool-aide.
DH and I went throught this with Spawn, ultimatly she left our house and has never been back and we have not seen or spoken to her in over 3 years. DH loves her and misses her and he hopes for a day when she might wake up and realize all the lies, but then at the same time he realizes that will probably never be the case. Yes it's hard, yes it sucks, and no parent should have to go through it, but sometimes letting go and just knowing you love them has to be enough.
That sucks
Im sorry you are going through all this.
When Toxic Feral Eldest decided to ghost us 1.5 years back, DH tried to stay in contact, but it was all one-sided.
Then just recently she decided to unleash on him and showed her true colors. The only bright side is that DH does not have to pay any support money for her and she works full time and supports herself while she has been living this past month with her mother, Toxic Troll.
Good luck to you, I hope that he comes to his senses and grows a brain.
As you can read on here OP..
As you can read on here OP...what your SS is doing is common. The court know it and lawyers are VERY familiar with a custodial parent behaving this way. Notice I said Custodial parent. IF BM was mentally healthy this would not be going on.
Your husband has a decison to make. Albeit a difficult one . All the money in the world, all the court hearings in the world will not fix this OR change it. The only way to stop this is SS would have to be in protective custody and fully away from BM, any of BM family, minions of BM, friends etc. BM would need extensive therapy and 'work' her way by her actions to see SS.
The courts will not help you, they are not equipied to deal with Mental Health issues OR this would not be going on and on, case after case, year after year... but they will listen to the boy who would rather be with All Wonderful MOM instead of going with bad dbag dad on a cruise to hell.
Some ncp had to give the teens what they wanted----to NOT see ncp, not go on visitation, not go on vacation, no spring break no christmas.....This is the nature of this beast.
"Son,,you have told me you do not want to go on a cruise during Spring Break. I will let your mom know today/tomorrow that you will not be coming this Spring Break 2019 with us"............
Dont switch the cruise date, dont change your plans. It does not make a difference. BM's goal is 100percent custody with ss not involved with you. she wont tell you that and I bet she said "I want SS to have a realtionship with you xdh"..WHAT am I going to DOOOOOOOO....it's not ME it's SS who doesnt want to go Wahhhh wahhhh wahhhhh.
Sorry about all this. Your going to end up on the wrong end of the stick if you keep pushing this. THAT is not in your favor either with the courts. Isnt your husband still on float? Or deployed?
Look up zero overnights dates for Child Support and BM has all overnights just so you know what will happen. Just saying.
https://drcraigchildressblog.com/2014/07/29/stark-reality/
Thank you everyone. This is
Thank you everyone. This is brutal. I don't know what I would do if I couldn't get me thoughts out on this site!!