Two Party Contrast #2
Forums:
I'm starting a second thread on this topic and letting the other one sink to the bottom. It's already long and there's more to tell.
My SD36 has moved from beyond the boundaries of normal behavior to a level of aggression that there is no denying. Over the last 5 years a pattern has developed. Call it mini-wife syndrome, but she has it bad. So bad, that she made me want to sell our house and move away from her.
So sell the house and move.
So sell the house and move. If you and DH refuse to nip her crap in the bud then leave her drama far behind and go live the life you prefer to live without her in the picture or region.
Your reasoning works IMHO.
We already did and are
We already did and are building another one.
You can bet I am going to have ground rules in place before we ever take residence there.
The party last weekend had
The party last weekend had multiple examples of this unhealthy behavior.
She spent nearly all day saying and doing things that were deliberately acting like a wife and not a daughter.
It started out with her riding in my car with DH to the gas station causing us to be separated and unable to communicate.
Then when we finally find each other, she says coyly "DH! WE forgot to lock the camper".......like she has a key and could even do that? DH corrected her and said "I locked it" emphasis on the I.
She has never acted like a visitor to our home, but like she owns the place. Even when our home is the camper that DH and I bought together during our marriage.
From part two: "She spent
From part two: "She spent nearly all day saying and doing things that were deliberately acting like a wife and not a daughter."
From part one: "DH announces that he is going to pick up the boat, get gas, and SD36 is going with him. "
From part two: "It started out with her riding in my car with DH to the gas station causing us to be separated and unable to communicate."
From what you have written between the two part posting, it appears you may be blaming SD for some of your husband's doings. Adding too, the inability to phone communicate is strictly on your DH.
I'm not backing SD, but I feel at least a good share of your issues and resentment are big too easily misdirected. Admitting part of it is DH and/your he enables the situations might be helpful. Right now SD can't breathe without you looking for some hidden meaning or evil action behind the breathe and some hopeful sign DH is somehow on your side. That it's not him or him and her but solely her and somehow DH is working to 'put her in her place'. KWIM?
Maybe I'm way off base, all I know is what you've told here. I'm sue SD has some annoying habits and could at times be intolerable. Heck my own kids can annoy me and seem intolerable at times, not to mention I'm secretly thrilled to pieces my adult SS lives miles and miles away. I'm human. So are they
I just can't help to think that laying down your expectations and boundaries starting with how your DH behaves might improve expectations and boundaries for when your SD makes her appearances. If nothing else, plan parties for your side only and make a 'me' day when DH entertains his side. Just be sure to leave a jumbo size jar of Jif peanut butter and a couple loaves of bread out so Daddy can 'cook'.
LOL We do indeed discuss how
LOL We do indeed discuss how to handle her ahead of time, but then when faced with the loud and pushy SD, DH caves in. Whenever he backs me, she chides him for being "pussy-whipped". She has said this about both DH and her own brother because her brother consults with his own wife instead of listening to SD36.
Tell him to look her in the
Tell him to look her in the eye and say "Happy wife, Happy life"
We go out on the boat and
We go out on the boat and she's doing things with it that she shouldn't be doing. Trying to setup the canopy, etc.
She's beckoning DH to walk away with her so she can have her private conversations away from the rest of the group.
She shoves her food onto his plate at dinner (I won't elaborate on that one LOL)
She stays until 10 p.m., long after her welcome has been worn out.
The next morning, I find a tee-shirt that's not mine or DH's in our car. She marks her territory, and no I'm not going to give her the benefit of the doubt that leaving it behind was an accident. I know her M/O too well.
The tee-shirt says "It Suddenly Got Weird In Here".
Believe me, I want to see her
Believe me, I want to see her as little as possible. That's a big reason why I wanted to move farther out of town. I am taking action to make sure she doesn't interfere in our lives like she did in the past.
I've actually come a long way since the first year of our marriage. If you read my first year posts on here, she used to do things so outrageous, I was actually feeling myself become depressed, with no end to it in sight. That's when she manipulated herself into living with us for three months.
Then, when we told her she had to move out, she used to drop by uninvited without calling. Call at all hours of the day. Ask DH to come over as her personal fix-it repairman. I cannot even begin to list all the ways she tried to manipulate us both.
The way I handled that is educating DH on what is normal daughter behavior, and what is not. She is too needy because in the four years since her divorce, she has never found a boyfriend interested in her. It's too bad, because it would have relieved her loneliness. Whenever DH feels helpless about her, I have to remind him, it's not his fault that she is divorced and that he can't take the place of a boyfriend in her life, and he can't be her boyfriend. She has to invest and expand the friendships of other women her age, that maybe are in the same boat and single. That's what is in her best long term interests, not tagging along with us, acting like a little girl again. Or even worse acting like his mini-wife and pushing me to the outside, like she tried to do last weekend.
It is good you are moving
It is good you are moving away, but SD may still come to visit and overstay her welcome at your new home too. I think you need to disengage and let DH have whatever relationship he wants with her. If he doesn't see her daily, or even every weekend these annoying get-togethers could be your time instead of time resenting her intrusion.
Let DH take care of his entertaining and you do yours. Too bad if he can't cook...does he know how to read lol? If he can read - he can cook. Or he can hire a caterer or take them out to a restaurant. Making food for your annoying SD is not your responsibility.
I also agree with twoview, your DH is the main problem here as he does not put any boundaries in place and let's SD bull-doze over him. He needs to grow a backbone and put her in her rightful place as his daughter and not his pretend wife when she is visiting.
Edited to add: My SD and DH behaved much the same years ago when things escalated and malfunctioned. We also moved away, and DH is in charge of his relationship with his SD's (2 of them). I no longer do any entertaining or cooking when it comes to his DD's. They are 39 and 34 now and quite old enough to cook for DH instead of the other way around. I do not attend these events and enjoy my time alone when DH does to visit them. It is not that often either since it is quite a distance and he doesn't like to leave our comfortable home and long walks on the beach.
We weren't having a family
We weren't having a family vacation. DH and I have a seasonal site at a campground while our house is under construction. The steps came for the day, an hour drive for them, over to our campground to celebrate stepgrandchild's birthday. They invited themselves over to our place instead of hosting it themselves.
I was perfectly happy with what we had agreed to do with them ahead of time, go to the water park for the day.
Unfortunately, they messed with those plans and ended up causing a fight between DH and me.
It's rude to go off and spend one-on-one time when the rest of the group is there and waiting for them to show up. Wrong time for that. And those gossip sessions that she likes to have isn't helping DH and her relationship in any positive way.
I was handling the day pretty well, until it fell apart half way through the day.
As far as the driving in the car, I wasn't even invited to go along to the gas station with them, but left back at the waterpark wondering where and when they would return. So rude, it even makes me mad 6 days later.
DH knows he treated her like a princess that day, and walked all over my feelings. He was feeling guilty the next day.
Twirl, this really is
Twirl, this really is excellent advice.^^^
I've stayed out of the convo because things went so pear-shaped on your other thread, however I re-read it this morning. You got a lot of variations of the same advice:
Take a different tack. Stop all the pretense of trying to be a Happy Family, and stop participating in the competitive dynamic that is going on with your SD.
You need to accept that these people, including your husband, are who they are and will continue to be regardless of your feelings. Your frustration and anger are wasted on a family group that has existed for decades. How you choose to deal with with them should be based on this reality. Your husband's conflict avoidant personality isn't going to change, either.
Since you cannot reasonably expect these other adults to conform to your norm, focus instead on what you can change for yourself. Chiefly, limit exposure, and stop being the party planner/hostess/caterer for these grownups. Can you think of any intact family where the parents would be bending over backwards spending $$ to host a party for their adult kids at a water resort?
Make your H deal with his own kids in his own way, and stay out of it.
I agree with this. I, too,
I agree with this. I, too, had a bit of a mini-wife situation going on with my SD15 at the time (now 16). Nothing as bad as what you describe, but lots of texting at all hours,dozens of times a day, walking right next to my DH when we're all out together, like they are the couple.
Part of me knew that it's common for girls that age to get a little clingy...and part of me was grossed out by it. I don't have a bad relationship with this SD, so this behavior wasn't in addition to crappy treatment of me personally, which I think helped...and DH often put her in her place, slowing his pace to walk with me instead, making her change seats with me, etc. He wasn't actively trying to put her down...he just likes being around me, and there's no question in his mind who the wife is
Anyway. I still found the behavior gross and disturbing, despite all this support. So I actually started encouraging DH to go out with her alone...mostly so I wouldn't have to see the clinginess, partly so she would feel loved, and partly so that DH would get annoyed with the behavior and recognize it himself w/o me having to point it out to him. Most recently, I paid for DH and SD16 to go to NYC together as her 16th bday present. DH loved it...loved being able to treat SD and have some special time with her...and also said it was completely exhausting being there with her and w/o me and that he missed me the whole time. Mission accomplished!
My guess is...your DH is afraid of his DD and her demands and wants you there as a buffer / scapegoat in case anything goes wrong. Hence the feigned helplessness when it comes to cell phones and planning stuff. Just STOP going! STOP serving as his go-between. Let them figure it out! You may think: "But if I do that, SD gets what she wants! She wins!" Nope. She and DH BOTH want you there, I'm guessing. He wants you there as a buffer...she wants you there as a counterpoint to her and a witness of her behavior. They are both mistreating you, though in different ways. Just decide you don't care. Book yourself with YOUR family and things you like to do. Don't worry about what's happening while you're not there. Out of sight, out of mind. My guess is...doing this may in fact make SD less clingy and make DH appreciate you a bit more.
When I was 16 there is no way
When I was 16 there is no way I wanted to have a date night with my dad. Ewww. I wanted to hang out with my friends and flirt with boys my age. The whole concept grosses me out, and add to that the fact that my SD is a 36 yr. old woman creeps me out even more.
I really do think she wants to parade him around publicly and pretend that he is her boyfriend because she herself is divorced and without a boyfriend going on 5 years.
DH is very handsome and young looking, though he is 61. He has a full head of beautiful hair, naturally brown, and very smooth skin, (thanks to a little micro-dermabrasion)
Right, and he helped make her
Right, and he helped make her that way.
You do not have the power to change your SD. You DO have the power to change your mindset and approach to the dynamic.
Weren't you and your H in counselling before? After this latest debacle and his crappy behavior, you might want to go back in order to work on your marriage and establishing boundaries with all of his kids.
You really need to stop focusing so much on blaming your SD for everything and start acknowledging your DH's culpability. He helped create this, he enables this, and he's not doing anything to change it. You've been advised to stop involving yourself, stop being a buffer and facilitator, and I think that's excellent advice.
There's big picture here that you seem very resistant to seeing, and until you gain clarity and remove yourself from the equation your situation is unlikely to improve.
This site has been a big help
This site has been a big help to me and I want to thank all of the ladies for their input and advice.
Because I have all of you to compare notes with and come up with solutions, I can handle the stepmother role which is definitely out of my comfort zone. Because of this site, I can have a place where my husband doesn't have to hear my frustrations, but they are allowed to boil over and fall harmlessly into history after about a week. Ok it takes me about a week to process the latest SD drama.
Having said that, I am embracing this next chapter of my life. A husband that loves me, a new house out in the country. Children and grandchildren that do appreciate me and all of my grandmotherly efforts to make their lives a better place. I have been told that I have the gift of hospitality. I love to throw parties and make everyone happy. It's what I do. For most people, they appreciate it and I like to share my time and talents with them. Decorate, bake cupcakes, buy the perfect gifts, beautifully wrapped.
For the other people that don't appreciate it, well.........
The pastor of my church once told how he handled it when his teenage son tried to have equal position with the pastor's wife. He said "Son, you are temporary, she is not".
"DH knows he treated her like
"DH knows he treated her like a princess that day, and walked all over my feelings. He was feeling guilty the next day." NOT guilty enough to set boundaries with SD. Not guilty enough to demonstrate to his daughter that you two are a team. Not guilty enough to care how this is hurting you.
Twirl, I really DO see that your SD is a pain in the butt with her mini-wife antics. I've been through the same thing myself - and it's not fun. BUT as I stated in Part 1, and as other posters have pointed out, your REAL problem is DH. He needs to plan his own time with the skids, he needs to have his own phone, he needs to stop throwing you under the bus.
My SD tried to be a mini-wife too. I don't know whether it was guilt from the divorce or that DH was flattered to walk down the street side-by-side with SD with me tailing in the rear. He put me down in front of SD, treat me as if my feelings did not matter, like your DH does. It doesn't matter what the reason was. The cold, hard fact was he did it without any regard for me as his wife. This problem was resolved when I let DH be responsible for his relationship with SD. He is free to see her just about any time he wishes, but until he can inform her in my presence that she is to respect me as his wife, she is not allowed to enter our home, nor will I have anything to do with her. It has been 5 years since I've seen SD and it has gotten better with every year that passes by. I can guarantee this will work for you too.
Sandye21...Bleh. It's so
Sandye21...Bleh. It's so gross. My bf and his daughter were like this. Finally I told him how embarrassing their behavior was and I'd never go out in public with them again. He really didn't seem to know what was happening, he would just go along with his daughter railroading him. I laid it out for him, big time. Saying how embarrassing it was watching the two of them poke at each other and flirt with each other while I stand behind them in line, the two of them walking together, while I'm six feet behind...etc. I told him people weren't looking at them thinking, "Oh, what a great relationship that man has with his daughter...look at that..." they were looking at them thinking, "That's wrong...which one is the girlfriend?". It embarrassed him.
I'd tell your DH point blank why you don't want to be around the two of them. Tell him to go see her, have fun, but you don't want anything to do with her. Inform him that in your home, you WILL be the alpha bitch.
Sounds like all of our DH's
Sounds like all of our DH's have a problem with blurred boundaries.
My sister calls what SD does ' Triangling '. She sees it in her practice a lot she says. That's the clinical term for a third party family member that wants to divide a couple, making one of them their confidante, with disparaging remarks in an attempt to alienate them from their spouse.