My ex-SD
I haven't been on this site in years. This issue has been eating away at me for over a year now. This is a long one...
So I say my ex SD, but her father and I were never married. Still, I came into her life around 13-14 and her father and I split when she was 17-18. Some pretty critical years... and I was only 12 years older than her. Her father never really spent a lot of time with her (he was a broken human and had a lot of very unfortunate things happen in his life) so I think she clung to me when I gave her opportunities to spend more time with her Dad. We got along great- to the point we still talk and spend time together today. Her Mom and I even go get drinks every so often. It really was a dream- especially compared to my current BM situation.
anyway, she is 24 years old now, and her father died VERY suddenly in August 2022. He was 46 years old. After he and I split, he began seeing this woman who had always been sniffing around but they were "just friends." I do believe that he believed that. Anyway, I had worked with her previously and she was not a kind human. She was closer to his age and would tell him how immature I was (maybe in some ways, but I bought the house we lived in and took care of his daughter so...).
They were together a couple of years when she lost her job and needed health insurance.... so they got married. They already had a house together. Ex SD would tell me that she felt her father was being manipulated into pushing her away... she was still in HS when she turned 18 and he cut off child support immediately... not at all the man I knew.
They had been married 14 months when he passed. Ex SD had always been the beneficiary on his 401k- about $200k in there when he passed. Apparently about 6 months before, wifey became the beneficiary. She also was the beneficiary to about $300k in life insurance. Wifey took it all and peaced out to FL. Left SD with nearly 40k in student loans. She's given some money here and there- about $1500 she said what left in his estate. New tires for her car.
My ex's family attempted to address this with wifey and she just went off. It was insulting that they would suggest she is not entitled to her husband's assets. Insulting to go against his wishes. They (his family) have betrayed her.
So I'm trying to put myself in wifey's shoes (I very nearly was) and I still just can not comprehend this. I get keeping some to help you through the next few months or even a year while you get yourself back on your feet.... but you were married 14 months. You are really taking a half mil and giving his daughter basically nothing? Am I the only one who finds this to be unbelievably wrong? Am I biased here? I never really liked her much but love SD. Looking for some perspective here. Validation if you feel it's warranted. This just hurts me to my core and I can not let it go.
Commenting only on the 401k -
Commenting only on the 401k - A 401k follows federal law and belongs to the spouse unless the spouse signs off. The minute they married, the wife became the beneficiary (and any previous beneficiary was void).
I Can Attest To This
When DH and I first married, I had to actually sign a document saying I agreed to give half of the retirement package to his kids...which I did.
It's Sad
Repeating my comment above, I had to sign a document saying I agreed to give half to DHs kids, as once we were married, I was the beneficiary.
I'm sorry for your SD...sounds terrible. This is why I constantly "scream" to get Wills done ASAP, even in your twenty's and especially in a blended situation. DH and I have everything covered, from funeral directions/expenses, houses, titled vehicles, POAs, etc. While things have changed over the years (we've been together over 20 years), we still have all our kids protected within those documents (his and mine).
About the only good that can come from this story is that for anyone that doesn't have their last will and testament done NEEDS to get it done ASAP.
Again, I'm sorry for your SD. Hopefully, the woman will come around and be different.
Devil's Advocate Here.
I'm going to take the SM's position, as that is primarily what most of us on STalk are in the position of. Often hated and vilified.
Is it possible there is another side of this story that you may not be aware of, and facts you may not know?
You said your ex was "broken" and had "unfortunate" things happen in his life. You didn't specify what, but usually people in those kinds of situations may need money - attorney's fees, medical bills, legal judgements against them, bankruptcy, etc.
Unless you've seen recent documentation otherwise, the amount of money you thought was in your ex's accounts may have been spent. And not necessarily by his wife. You also said they purchased a home, and that could also be a souce of significant spending. Or maybe the wife had medical bills. Or maybe she had spent down a lot of her own personal income to help your ex with HIS bills. You can't assume there was $500K in cash available unless you saw documents proving it, IMO.
If your ex's wishes were specifically to leave his assets to his wife, then those are his wishes. If he didn't leave anything to his (young) adult daughter it is sad, especially since she had student loans.
However, another way to look at it - if her father hadn't died, she would still need to repay those loans.
I mean this kindly ...If you are ruminating over this a year later, I would look inwardly and wonder if you aren't projecting your own difficulties as a SM onto this woman.
Here’s what I know….
Ok, fair and YUP. Totally willing to admit I haven't liked this woman in the 16 years I've know her. She was rude and condescending to the employees she managed and two faced with her peers. She talked smack on me while I was still with my ex- he told me and saw the text messages. So yeah, absolutely never liked her. Absolutely some level of bias here.
He was broken- his Mom was undiagnosed schizophrenic and poisoned him and his siblings when he was about 12 years old, nearly killing all of them and leading to years of social service visits. He was the oldest and so unfortunately a lot of the responsibilities fell on him while his father was working. Before he and I got together, his girlfriend of 7 years passed away suddenly due to a brain aneurysm. He subsequently drank ALOT (main reason we were not together).
All I can say is when we were together he had no criminal record, no DUIs, no legal fees, no medical costs (he never went to the dr). I also know he has excellent health insurance bc we both worked at the same place (as did new wife). Also I case searched him after reading this and there was nothing except the 20 year old custody case. No debts, no criminal cases, no civil cases.
Supposedly new wife was not paying his bills- other way around. Known fact- when she got fired, she never found employment. Which again is supposedly why they got married in the first place- she needed health insurance- which also may not be true but came from a reliable source so... who knows.
with the 401k, can't say I had the same experience when I got married. I went into my company website, took my brother off, entered my husband's name and social, clicked a button and done. Same for my husband's adding me. Speculation but considering the access he gave me to his finances I'm guessing he allowed her the same, and the knowledge she had of his benefits (working for the same company and all), I seriously question if he knew about this. This just was not him. He never had much but he would always gladly scrape bottom of the barrel to try to help his daughter when she needed it.
And I'm not so sure about 401k going to wife no matter beneficiary... my husband's friend died and he forgot to change his beneficiary when he got divorced... ex wife got it all and new wife got nothing. It was terrible. Anyway- not the point.
When I was with this man, I handled his finances. He liked to be cared for (got old real fast). He gave me access to EVERYTHING. Might have been different with her.... I don't know, but having handled his finances, what I do know is that his daughter was his primary beneficiary on his 401k and his life insurance. I know bc I was the one who set her as the beneficiary because he had never set one. Also set up his life insurance bc our work gave it to us for practically nothing so stupid not to have it.
When we called those companies after his death thinking SD was the beneficiary, we were told the beneficiary was changed and so they could not disclose any other information to her.
The most recent documentation we have she found when she was permitted to go into his office and take what she liked (after wife took what she wanted). Yes, she probably shouldn't have taken that, but after the conversation with his company's HR, she was understandably curious. We know his life insurance was current and it was through his employer. We know there was a $200k policy and a $100k policy. There was a a quarterly 401k report that showed just shy of $215k- his wife listed as primary beneficiary and his daughter second. His checking account and savings he had basically nothing.
I don't know about after death expenses. All I know is
she sold his car and their home and moved to Florida.
So yeah, I don't know. I am definitely biased bc 1. I'm always on SD's side and 2. past experiences working with this woman have left me feeling not so fond of her- well before this happened. These are the facts I have....and yeah I'm biased...but preponderance of evidence seems to suggest....
That's why I can't let go of this. I can't find enough information to convince my brain otherwise no matter how hard I try. Forget the finances, you were the closest person she had to her father and you up and left 2 months after he died. Left her to grieve on her own. Text her a picture of her dog every now and then.
anyway, I totally sound like I'm making excuses to justify my feelings. Maybe I am. It's just so hard when I see her hurting so badly, feeling like her Dad didn't care for her and totally abandoned by her SM, and there is nothing I can do about it.
While you were with your ex
While you were with your ex his daughter was a minor, she still needed supporting to get to adulthood. Sounds like she is an adult now with a degree. She can support herself. This might explain the change in how he had his beneficiaries set out?
Yes and no.
Yes she's an adult, no she doesn't have a degree. She is in a very demanding medical program right now (not to be a Dr- she's not going to come out making a ton of money- just a decent livable salary). She can hold a job most of the summer, but during school it's almost impossible for her to work between the amount of school work and the time she spends in clinical- everyday. She's paying her existing student loans, trying to pay as much of her tuition as she can (her BM and SD help as much as they can) without gaining more debt, plus her supplies, car insurance, etc. She is living with her grandmother so she at least doesn't have any rent right now.
After her Dad died and SM moved away, she reached out to ask SM to HELP her pay for some equipment she needed for her clinicals. She had some unexpected car repairs come up and fell short of the $1500 she needed. She sent me the SM text- seriously said "This is not my problem that you didn't budget properly. Put it on a CC." Ok- you could argue that she is an adult and not SM's problem... but couldn't she just have said "Hey, I'm sorry I can't help right now." Why be critical? And btw this girl is not wasteful with her money.
I do know that when her Dad was alive it hit him quite hard that he wasn't able to help her with college at all. He always said that he hoped he had the money that he could help her with a house or a wedding one day so.... maybe that's why he changed it I just can't imagine it.
I'm with you
all legality aside, I couldn't live with myself if I kept everything as a fairly "new" person in a man's life, esp if he had children, no matter what. I didn't earn it, it's not mine. my SD drives me insane but I couldn't do that to her and I've been here for almost 20 years. this is such a a common story I think laws should be adjusted. I knew a woman who did this, with a guy for two years and kept everything, even though he was close to his ex and daughter. I was kind of disgusted. when my stepdad died my mother made sure his son, who barely lived with us much, was not forgotten. it's just being a decent human being. I swear there should be like a 10 year clause in late life marriages.
IMHO an X gets nothing. They
IMHO an X gets nothing. They are the X for a reason.
As for a more recent spouse, the onus is on the deceased to address heirs in their Will. If they did not do that or if their Will left it to their new spouse...so be it.
If the Skids are decent, repectful, and well behaved, I might include them in the estate distribtution if I were the SP left everything. That would be likely actually. However, disrespectful, entitled, ill behaved Skids.... I would give nothing.
My assumption is that your mom's SS was decent and worthy.
You know, it isn't on the SM
You know, it isn't on the SM to redistribute money she inherited to her late husbands daughter. It sounded like she didn't approve of them. Maybe she turned into a nightmare for both her dad and sm?
Ultimatley her Dad made a decision (wether active or passive) and that decision is why she didn't get much inheritance. Maybe SM manipulated him, maybe she didn't. We don't know. But he made those decisions and now isn't here to answer to them.
The daughter has to come to terms with this and I know it sucks and must be really hard to feel that your father didn't support you with his assets in his will. She cans see a huge sum of money that she feels she should have a portion of. But she has a whole working lifetime to earn her own money and build her own wealth. I assume she wasn't relying on that money to fund her future.
As for sm maybe she wants nothing to do with his family, sd and BM now that she doesn't have to. And how is she supposed to decide what amount to give to her sd? Does she give her 80%, 50%, 10%???? These are not decisions she should be making. Whatever she decides she is bound to be "wrong" in the eyes of his daughter and her family.
Your ex let his daughter down (for whatever reason...) and she needs to accept that and learn to live with it. It is sad from her perspective and I agree a crappy move from her Dad but I don't think that his wife owes the daughter anything. Blame should be properly laid at the feet of your ex.
100% Agree
Dad is the one who let his daughter down. Getting angry at his widow is misplaced.
As we all know, it's easy to
As we all know, it's easy to blame the stepmom. It is SD's dad that made the decision to leave everything to his wife and she has no legal obligation to give anything to SD. A moral obligation? Maybe yes, maybe no.
Good point
Hadn't considered that. I definitely have a lot of anger toward him as well. The anger with her I think comes from how I've know her- I knew her before all of this and just never liked her. This situation is completely in line with the person I always perceived her to be... I think that's why I was so quick to place the majority of this on her.
This is a good example of why
This is a good example of why all of us need to plan our estates. Get that will written. Set up a trust.
I do NOT believe that a new spouse is automatically entitled to the assets of the other that were accumulated BEFORE the marriage. I would only count the assets accumulated AFTER the marriage. I'm not speaking to what the law says, only what I believe.
Your ex partner should have made sure his share of the house with his short term wife was designated in a will for his daughter.
It does sound quite sketchy that they were married 14 months and she was on the ball enough to get things lined up for HER to inherit and that there was nothing set aside for the SD.
That tells me that your ex was likely a hot mess and easily manipulated OR he was a drain on his new wife financially and otherwise - hard to say.
What was the cause of death, may I ask? Just sounds super sketchy with the timeline and it's possible she was a master manipulator.
I'm going to lean towards master manipulator because getting that kind of windfall, the new wife could and should have looked out for his child. She sounds like a sucky person.
Based on OP's description...
... she said her ex and SM were friends for a long time, then became a couple after OP & he split, and got married 14 months prior to his death. If the math works out, they were together about six years and married for the last 14 months. Not exactly a quickie relationship.
And you are right that wills etc. need to be taken care of.
So yeah…
Didn't want to say bc I thought this too but this does seem far fetched to me- here it is-
He died of sepsis. There was a common bacteria (don't remember the name) found in his blood that typically one gets from cats/ dogs in the home. It's common, people are exposed everyday and it's not usually a problem. The reason it became a problem for him is that for some reason his wbc was almost 0. We don't know why- autopsy didn't dig that deep for some reason- which is also really upsetting bc if it was some sort of genetic condition that would have been great to know.
BM and SD both say that a couple days after his death, she allowed his friends to come over and take his stuff. SD was not in a good place so BM went with her to grab what she could before everything was gone. Both say that new wife and a friend were drinking in the kitchen (I get it, your husband just died), but wife was coming out with some pretty weird stuff- frequently saying things about "if they try to blame me for anything". Some of his friends corroborated this story.
very odd things to say- but I don't know how she could have possibly depleted his immune system so all I can say is she was drunk and weird. I dunno.
Your EX had to know what he was doing
He has to sign papers. 401K. Insurance, ect giving new wife the money. There is nothing you can do, apparently you splitting with the ex. Tell me thing we're not good with him. You can try to reach out to ex SD. and invite her for dinner , maybe try to find her a advisor to help with her financial life. If you have money you don't need you can buy SD things that she needs. Ect, as in being a good friend.
Dont know where BM is ? But 24 with out family is very hard to deal with . But this is up to you, how much you want to get involved
Yeah…
He was a drinker and I got tired of taking care of him, essentially. Not a bad person though- just had his demons. I have suspicions about all that paper signing- but just suspicion. You're right- nothing I can do.
I do See her all the time which is how I became so involved with this. Her mom and I are actually pretty good friends- we go out sometimes and she even babysits my son for me so...
trying to do what I can to be there for her but it's hard to see her hurting so badly. BM has left a lot of it to me- which she admits is kind of shitty- but it definitely is harder for her than it is for me so I'm happy to help carry the load.
I totally understand how you feel and would probably feel the
I totally understand how you feel and would probably feel the same way. It seems there was plenty of money in the estate and he could have made sure his daughter got some of it. I would be angry with both the ex and the wife. As far as how to let it go, that is much harder. Maybe concentrate on the good that you bring to the daughter's life by being supportive? She is lucky to have both you and her mother.
Daddy screwed up. Sadly,
Daddy screwed up. Sadly, there is likely nothing anyone can do about it. Though his DD may find a lawyer who will take it on contingency.
Daddy shifting beneficiary to his wife pretty much seals that deal. Insurance is administered via selected beneficiary and even a Will may not drive payment to anyone other than the named beneficiary on the policy. Same for his 401K.
Yeah... we talked to a very
Yeah... we talked to a very fancy expensive lawyer and he said SOL. No will, beneficiary changed... nothing you can do.
The sad thing is that the man I knew- he was trusting to a fault. If he did willingly and knowingly make these arrangements (which I question- again, naively trusting) then I do believe that he believed his wife would make sure his daughter was taken care of.
And truly- I have/ had no lingering feelings for this man. When I was done, I was DONE. It took me a lot to leave bc I didn't want to leave SD, but when I did I felt a weight lift. He proposed- I suppose just a last effort to keep me, not necessarily genuine- and I ran from the house (MY house) screaming "F**K NO." So when I say that I know he cared for his daughter and that he was a good person with some major issues- there is no romanticising. Couldn't care less for the man... but I knew him and I know how he felt about his daughter. He showed his care for her to the best of his ability- which may not have been great, but I can honestly say the I believe it was his absolute best. So no- I don't think that he made this choices thinking that this is how things would be after he passed.
I’ve been in her shoes
I've been disherited and the pain and anger so far has not left me. Yes my brother had his hands in this by sharing my life long secrets to my mother, who disinherited me upon my father's death. He died in my home cared for solely by me and my husband for a year of hospice care.
I've shared my story with this group when I was going through it several years ago.
I think you need to let this go. Support your SD. Be a shoulder to cry on. I still have nightmares over this betrayal. What does hurt more is that even my DH and children tell me I need to stop thinking about it. Can you imagine? This act makes me feel like my whole childhood was a fraud. I was raised by a mother who ultimately showed her lack of care toward me. Your ex husband showed his hand also. It's devastating. And I am reminded of it so many times. When people say their mother has died. Me? I don't even know if mine is dead or alive. Do I care?
So final thoughts. Let your SD talk and cry. Her emotions are valid. It is a lifetime hurt.
Hugs. . . .
Hugs. . . .
Wills and Manipulations
You stated that your ex was naive and trusting, so that you understand why he signed over all the assets to "New wife". They were together a while, right, even though married only a little over a year. I understand why you feel as you do. Husband has made me the sole beneficiary of everything and thats how our wills will be also.
I made an unofficial promise that both his children will get SOMETHING. With life insurance and 401k and other assets I think I get around 120-150k. Max. With debts incurred and handling burial, Id lose about 20-50k, leaving 100k. Im thinking with the fact that I would have to carry mortgage myself, Im thinking 5k each would be fair-ish, plus a few personal items like caps and tee shirts, photos. Depending on how things are going with them. SD24 Feral Forger and I are no contact, and SD17 Power sulk and I are just ok. But I made a promise, I will gift SOMETHING.
Your Sd, well, her father failed to take care of business. But its easier to lay all the hate on New Wife. Added to the fact shes of low character anyways.
Whatever and whoever she is, she was his partner, companion and wife. Thats wonderful SD has you and you are tight, and BM and you are friendly.
My condolences to your "ex" SD, on her loss.
Was the stepmom morally wrong
Was the stepmom morally wrong.... maybe? Legally though? Totally fine.
Each state is different. In ours, the default if a spouse dies (and there is no will/estate) then the surviving spouse is 100% the beneficary before the ink can dry. Adult children & dependents have to be spelled out as beneficiaries otherwise.
The situation is on bio dad honestly. I understand that his passing was sudden, but he should have had something in writing if his wishes were to help SD with loans, etc. It shouldn't be up to the BM to figure out "what he would have wanted" and "make things fair".
When my son was born I updated my beneficiaries. It was a no brainer to make sure he was included. When DH had a major life event (married SM) he should have updated his beneficiaries if he wished to do so.
You were never married to this man.
He cared about his new wife then his DD. I was not in SO Shoes. You can't do anything about what happen. He turn over ever thing to his DW. before his death. All you can do, if you want is to be friends with this woman.
What a sad story....
What a sad story from the OP.
When I was with ex, we had a relationship property agreement drawn up which we both signed.
It stipulated that ALL our individual assets stayed just that way.... INDIVIDUAL...and that neither of us would get a cent from the other person's estate. We each had children from previous relationships and these children would be sole beneficiaries of their parents estate.
Now, I had ZERO time for younger ex SD, none at all. But no way on this earth would I have tried to make it so she was disinherited, or that I got some benefit from her Dad's estate. And I could have...my ex was very malleable shall we say, and would have agreed to name me in his will if I had suggested it LOL.
In fact, the RPA was my idea. I said to him, look, we are mature adults who don't need to profit off each other.... everything will be separate and neither of us will get anything from the other.
It's all water under the bridge now, since we are no longer together.
What it comes down too
You have no legal responsibility to your ex SD. You as a adult can do what you want. If you want to help SD out of the goodness of your heart you can. If you don't have money, you can invite her for dinners, go to places with her. You can do what you are capable of doing.