How do you handle the money?
Hello Everyone,
Need help on how to handle the money in the relationship with my DH paying for grown ass adults who have degrees (partly paid for by me) who can't support themselves.
We have mine, yours, and our money. But he is always broke due to his kids. And SD moved to Seattle without a job, mom flew her up there rented an apartment in mom's name and told her Dad to move her up there. Of course he paid for the cost of most of the move. Even though I suggested putting her things in storage and renting a room for a bit to keep costs down or just selling everything--it is mostly junk anyway. But no thousands go into moving her, her crap and her pack of pets to Seattle.
Well big surprise she doesn't get a job, and finally lands a part-time gig at Target. To celebrate adopts another cat. Of course she can't pay all her rent. So he sends some money, the birthday more money, I pitch in small amount from me for birthday. And since we don't want her or the pets starving we give her a Target card with the agreement of $200 a month for food until she can get full time employment. Well of course she over spends and doesn't even ask or tell anyone. Well that card is now dead.
Dad is mad but says give her a year. Come on a year. So she quits Target and gets part-time job at a pizza place and a summer camp job at a museum (only temporary). And in the mean time turns 26 (thank the Goddess) and finally rolls off my health insurance. So she needs Cobra paperwork for an even to get medicaid. Sends a very nasty note about me keeping that paperwork from her, I reply I gave it to you dad. Funny part here was when I replied I cc'd Dad and he called and said who is that B*tch and why is she talking to you that way. I guess he thought it was a co-worker and I was sharing an email--no clue. I just calmly said that is your daughter and I gave you the paperwork so would you please get it to her. Then I also calmly ask if he'd ever send an email like that to his step mother and he says no way.
Fast forward, we get the credit card bill and he is very angry talks to her about straightening up but doesn't cut it off. So I said I'm going to see if she got her insurance taken care of and if she has all her paperwork cuz gosh that's all we need on top of this is big medical bills. So I text and ask. I also say I'm from Seattle and getting a job there can be hard do you need help, do you want to talk. Response is no I'm good don't need anything from you.
So then I say you know I want to retire and it is very unfair to expect people to pay for you to live in one of the most expensive cities in the country and you need to get yourself on firm footing.
Oh she went nuts then saying how dare I all she wants is the money and to stop talking to her, only communitcate through her dad, and then goes on to thank me for paying for her part of her college.
I replied, card cancelled no more money. Bank of good witch closed, no more gifts help etc. Dad has small amount of his own money but not enough to support you, I make 60% more so best of luck.
Not a word, I figured she'd tattle on me to Daddy but nothing so far.
So do I let it go, do I make steps to separate completely financially from him since I know she'll just try to get it from him behind my back (very hard to do since I manage our finances), but he does have retirement accounts (that he has taken money out of for them in the past--his money before we met). But taking out of retirement means less of a retirement for US.
Advice?
Also now I have to deal with if she visits, do I leave? I figure she'll just stay with her mother and I won't have to worry.
Once again Advice?
I wish I could trust him to do what he should but he won't he gets mad but then gives in. He's gotten better but it is like a gambler he still stumbles.
He's wonderful--as I told him the other day if he wasn't so wonderful I would have left a long time ago due to his children.
Thank you seasoned step parents for the Advice!
He doesn't sound wonderful to
He doesn't sound wonderful to me- he sounds like an idiot you can't trust even with his own money...I'm sorry but my X wouldn't reveal his retirement plans to me either (I'm still guessing how much he will have and what he will do with it) but it is no longer my concern because I left him. It is better that way.
Well one very good thing is
Well one very good thing is that you hold all (or most) of the cards with regard to your finances. I would indeed take steps to completely separate yours and DH's finances and don't give your hulking great cuckoo of an SD one penny more. He is just reinforcing bad behaviour with the way he is behaving towards her - ie initally saying no then giving in. The ONLY way she is going to learn to stand on her own feet financially, is if she has to. He needs to understand that.
Wow, is all I can say. I didn
Wow, is all I can say. I didn't ask for, or get, a penny from my dad after I moved out.
DH and I have separate accounts. I pay the bills so I tell him what to give me every month. He has less for retirement than I do and he is not stupid enough to take from that to pay anything for his grown daughter. She's 26 and refuses to work so she's made her bed, as far as he is concerned.
I don't understand all of this enabling. It certainly doesn't help them grow up and it would ruin my marriage if my husband pulled that crap, it would be a BIG problem for me. DH and I have both worked hard all of our lives to get what we have, we are not just handing it over to someone who thinks that others should support her.
I, too, offered to help my SD with job placement, with the same result as you had. Okay, then, I am OUT.
Your husband taking from his retirement to support his grown, college educated daughter, is unacceptable. You will end up paying for it by supplementing him in retirement.
I feel for all of us sometimes...
On the job front, it could be WORSE. She could have accepted your offer to help her with job placement and then performed poorly and made an a$$ of you ny association.
That's what happened in my house. And when college graduation rolled around (which largely I paid for) I was officially forbidden to attend.
Not that I wanted to... but kids these days are so freaking entitled and spoinled. No wonder they never launcy... Mommy and Daddy are so busy kissing their behinds.
Ugh.
SD has no incentive to stand
SD has no incentive to stand on her own two feet because she keeps getting help from other people.
My DD is the same age, and has a lifestyle where work is sporadic. My response to her is "this is the life you have chosen." So she knows she sometimes has to work a few jobs, save her $, etc.
Your DH needs to tell his daughter that she chose to live in Seattle, she choses to only work 1 part time job. And then let her be an adult and figure it out.
If you don't think DH is capable of doing this, then yes, you should separate finances.
What is it that they say???
"Necessity is the mother of invention" or something like that. When she's living on cup'o'soup and Mac and Cheese for a few weeks she'll figure it out.
As long as *anyway* is forking over money with few questions asked not much is going to change...
If it was me- I wouldn't care
If it was me- I wouldn't care what he sent her as long as he was meeting the financial needs of our household. You cut the credit card- WHICH IS FANTASTIC!!! As long as your DH is still doing what you guys decided for retirement, he is paying his portion of the bills, etc- let it go. Now, that being said-- if you guys want to go out or to a concert or whatever and it is his turn to pay and he can't-- Just get your ticket or just go yourself. A few times of that happening and I would be willing to be he makes sure he has enough money to go out with you. No man wants to have his wife off and out on the town without him because he is too broke to be able to go too.
Since you have your, his, and
Since you have your, his, and combined money - HIS money and HIS money alone can be sent to her. Not combined money.
Here's how I cut off SD...
Don't address any of this with SD. Only deal with your husband. Take the emotion out of your discussions with Husband. Don't bad mouth SD. Just have a nuts and bolts talk because once the emotion gets into the talk, these fathers lose all reason.
And here's the nuts and bolts your tell Husband: comfortable retirement in the US is very costly. Age-wise, you are at the end of your earning potential; SD is at the beginning of hers. If you continue to support her, SD will never have the need to learn the real cost of life and how to support herself, then where will she be when you two are dead?
You have to make it all about what's good for SD (learning to stand on her own) and what's good for you (having enough $ to weather retirement, illness, etc.) Don't comingle the two issues other than to say you need to stop giving her $.
We had some issues early on with SD asking for $ to live her champagne life. I kept emphasizing that we need to setup ourselves for comfortable retirement so we don't need to depend on SD (see how I flipped that around?), who shouldn't have to finance our retirement. Make it all about everyone taking responsibility for themselves so no one needs to ask each other for $. Tell him you'll all be happier when you all feel good about supporting yourselves and no one has to grovel for $ from the other. (Because it truly DOES feel good to be financially independent.)
It's good that your husband can't easily pass $ to SD without you knowing. Watch your finances like a hawk because when you start making this pitch, your husband's instinct will be to give her $ on the sly.
When you convince your Husband to cut her off, do it fairly -- your husband must tell her when the charity will stop (three months is fair warning) so she can get her ducks in a row. Close out all her lines of credit that have to do with you. Keep emphasizing to your husband that she must (for her own good) learn to swim because you won't always be there to fund her.
My husband is very reasonable about $, so that was a benefit when I tried this. But I also thinking making the point that all adults must learn financial independence to live happy lives also got him over the hump of giving my SD $. (I also used this method to cut off his lazy brother and a few lazy friends of his who had gotten into the habit of taking money from my husband.)
"So do I let it go, do I make steps to separate finances?"
Yes - now. I was in the same situation as you are now. I supported DH while he was paying for SD to go to an expensive college. I paid for her insurance. After she graduated I found out DH was still placing hundreds of dollars into her checking account every month - even though she was making more than he was. And all of that time I was being treated like dog doo. Unlike your SD, neither my SD nor DH ever uttered one word of appeciation for what I did.
I finally told DH he was going to have to pay 1/2 of the living expenses. He went balistic but later on, decided it was best for him both socially and financially if he did. One thing I didn't do was insist he invest in is retirement. Big mistake.
Separate finances, DH can pay 1/2 of the living expenses and a set amount into his retirement account - THEN he can be as generous with SD as he wants.
Your DH's response to the
Your DH's response to the email is priceless!
My SD regularly tells her father that all he needs to do is keep putting money in her account and never speak to her again. Guess what? HE DID for a long time! His eyes are currently open to how his DD operates. I'm praying they stay that way.
There's no way I would leave my home so SD could visit. If you're agreeable, she could visit him in your home, but if you're not, she can stay at BM's and she and DH can meet elsewhere to visit.
Finally, if your husband has his retirement invested in a 401k, you may be protected by the plan provider. Many of them require a notarized spousal signature in order for a married member to obtain a disbursement. I'm not sure if that is a requirement on an IRA. It seems it would be since, in community property states, it is considered a joint asset. You should check with a trusted advisor if you think he can't be trusted.
Best of luck!
Thank you everyone
great advice and yes the 401k is protected and I force the max. He only has small amount from his dad but it is sad to see him blow it.
As far as wonderful he does cleaning, shopping, laundry, even cares for the cat I’m pretty spoiled.
his only flaw is her and he has said how disappointed he is. How she should do this and that then she brings up her depression and he is then panicked that she’ll commit suicide.
so I’ll watch closely give expiration and then separate. Problem then will be formula because he can not afford 1/2 and still do full amt in retirement
I’m doing legal paperwork this weekend to even keep from her in death.
and you’re right he can go there to visit!
Oh, how I detest people who
Oh, how I detest people who hold others emotionally hostage with their depression and threats (veiled or otherwise) of suicide. She is way too old to be pulling that crap.
He cannot let her emotionally blackmail him, she will do it forever. She needs to buck up and deal. And I say that as someone who has dealt with a serious chemical imbalance and clinical depression all of my life. I have never dreamed of putting my dad (or anyone that I loved) in that position. So selfish and unfair.
Honestly, if she brings up her depression and uses it to her advantage, I have to wonder how real it is. Most people who are truly suffering, do not flaunt it or announce it, or use it to get their way, expecting others to relieve it (monetarily, in your SD's case). We try to keep it on the down low!
On one hand, I feel for your husband. He cares about his daughter, doesn't want anything to happen to her, but man, she has got him right where she wants him. Playing the fool.
Amen!
Amen! So much this!
Everything above - spot on!!
Everything above - spot on!!
Great post.
It nmakes me wild when these
It nmakes me wild when these princesses threaten suicide, say things like "I might as well kill myself because you don't want me around" etc etc etc....
As someone who has had close fmaily members who have died of cancer, and would have done or tried anything to keep on living, that kind of casual, flip, throwaway but veiled threat makes me WILD!!!
I wanted to punch ex's daughter in her stupid face when I heard that kind of remark...
Agreed
i completely agree. And good for u to work through such a difficult disease.
I have health issues and like u I keep it hidden.
she does have him right where she wants and my heart breaks but I can’t let her snare me anymore.
Yes, like hereiam, I have had
Yes, like hereiam, I have had depression, in my case for 20 yrs but never once used it to get something from others. Your SD needs to shut up and grow up and your DH needs to allow her to grow up by not enabling her.
All income is family income.
For us all income is family income. Not hard to establish when you marry with little more than a freshly printed Engineering degree (mine) two 8+yo cars, two apartments full of college furniture.... and a bit of school loan debt.
With the exception of gifts for each other (I am the one that goes nuts and refuse a budget when I am shopping for her) we follow the inform ASAP model when it comes to expenditures. Neither of us feels any pressure to get permission from the other but... we do usually inform the other prior to purchases or moving money around in our accounts or investments. We both max our 401Ks, max our annual IRA contributions, and have a comprehensive cooperative investment plan in place so we can meet our current and retirement financial goals.
There is no supporting deadbeat relatives. And there are a number of them in my IL clan. My bride would not even consider throwing good money after bad down that rabbit hole of financial idiocy. It breaks her heart, mine too to some extent, but she knows how they are and that any help would be squandered rather than used as intended. We have offered under very strict stipulations but were refused and they were offended. So, fortunately, they no longer even ask. I am actually more willing to consider helping than she is. So ... fortunately she has that firmly under control.
As for the kid.... Occassionally we will shift a little money to our son's accounts (my former SS-25 now adopted) but that is due to cash flow issues for him. He has never failed to give us our money back in short order.
Separate finances are the answer
We have a similar situation as many have describef. We separated finances and i dont know or care what he does which of course includes insane financial help to SD. Yes, the 401K protects you and you are in position to watch family finances. That's the best you can hope for.
Like you, the emotional blackmail sickens me. My depression is so bad right now, Dad. You used to be the boss about the money. Dad, what happened? The doctor says stress is bad for me, Dad. Everybody is against me, Dad. I can't get a break, Dad.
I could go on for ages but I'm sure you have examples of your own.