No Contact Order
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So my wife has a no contact order with her ex-boyfriend.
He has visitation, currently supervised. The center contacts us to tell her when to drop off the kid.
This month, my wife's lawyer told her that the supervision is likely to be lifted during a hearing.
With a no contact order in place, how will he be able to pick up the child, or arrange anything? Has anyone else ever been in this situation?
I am sure as hell not going to be the messenger monkey in the middle.
The court will most likely
The court will most likely appoint someone to be the supervisor. Most of the time it’s a family member, or a family friend. If I recall correctly, they’ll run this person by your wife to ensure she’s okay with who’s picked.
Ah, that would make sense.
Ah, that would make sense.
Although my wife is fighting this tooth and nail. They'll be in court for another year before anyone is appointed. Glad I'm not paying for this fiasco anymore. It's one thing after the other.
It depends on what kind of
It depends on what kind of order she really has out against him. Many states, like mine, have different levels. In my state, we have restraining orders that pretty much anyone can take out against anyone else, and they are toothless. Then we have the DANCO, which is issued by a judge after domestic assault charges have been filed or convicted.
My guess is his lawyer will request the order to be dropped and it will be, unless he was convicted and has yet to serve his sentence.
There was no domestic
There was no domestic violence.
The guy got into a fight with someone, and went to jail for a few months for it.
My wife was able to get some kind of no contact order, stating she was "scared".
She was just gaming the system anyway. I wasn't aware that a judge could just toss it out.
Yeah, that's going to be
Yeah, that's going to be dropped the second the dad's lawyer brings it up.
ETA: Also, she may not even have that order anymore. The low level ROs have a very limited time frame before they expire (6 months to a year). So by the time dad gets his hearing to drop supervised visits, her order will probably no longer be in effect.
As it should be. This woman
As it should be. This woman is a piece of work.
Agreed. I see her kind quite
Agreed. I see her kind quite often in my DV advocacy work. Fortunately, many courts in our district are getting wise to that game.
Thankfully the system hasn’t
Thankfully the system hasn’t let her alienate the kid. She’s the real abuser in this scenario.
So, so true.
So, so true.
The court order will need to
The court order will need to address that.
Generally, it has to be
Generally, it has to be severe circumstances (like physical or sexual abuse) for a firm, long lasting supervised visitation CO to stay active. Family court judges are horribly jaded at times.
I’d mentally prepare yourself for that possibility of it being dropped.
More importantly, how do you think your wife will handle this? I know you’ve stated you’re pretty removed from it, but I assume she must have some sort of game plan in trying to expunge bio dad from her child’s life, huh? What do you foresee her next move being?
Oh, I'm fine with it. I do
Oh, I'm fine with it. I do trust her. I'm not jealous of the ex-boyfriend or anything like that.
I told her from the beginning that she wasn't going to be able to keep him out. She and her family assumed he would just step aside when they threatened child support.
Her next move? There will probably a a ruling in his favor, and then she will wait until the day before he's supposed to see her unsupervised for the first time, then have her lawyer file an appeal, to block the order temporarily.
She goes over this with me, and I tell her how messed up it is that she and her lawyer can game the system like that. Although, the lawyer is just racking up retainers.
Take notes, because you will
Take notes, because you will be dealing with this yourself eventually.
Hope for the best, prepare
Hope for the best, prepare for the worst, I'm very well prepared.
But, if I lived life every day as if I was expecting a divorce, then there'd definitely be a divorce. I love my wife, and support her in most things.
Don't get me wrong, her ex is a total loser. No job, ambitions, home, maturity. Doesn't mean he doesn't get to see his kid.
I'm the opposite of that guy. I'd have a good go at full custody in the event of a divorce, I'm the primary caregiver and can prove it, among other things that are a little more personal.
My DH was the primary
My DH was the primary caregiver. He was willing to have full custody.
BM lied (like yours), used SS as a pawn and gamed the system. She ended up cutting SS out of DH's life for years, successfully.
Don't think you are an exception - you can see already that your wife is willing to lie to get what she wants. You will be the enemy and she will fight you tooth and nail, lying all the way.
If she will
If she will do it to one guy, she will do it to the next. Everyone thinks that they are the exception until it is their turn. I am not saying to live your life planning on a divorce but you have a front row seat to what she is capable of doing.
LOL your wife is going to
LOL your wife is going to lose her shit. Temporary orders in family court generally cannot be appealed. Just like Biodad was unable to appeal the temporary supervised visits order, she will not be able to appeal the temporary unsupervised visits order than is coming next in this process. She can appeal the "final and complete" orders, but they are a long ways off from having those.
I bet $1 million she is going to withhold the child, against court orders.
Wait, I must be lost.
Wait, I must be lost.
The first hearing was before a magistrate, where the temp. supervised order was issued.
The next is before a judge, who will make a ruling. I was under the impression that this hearing was the final.
Here, it is a gradual process
Here, it is a gradual process they call "reunification" when a child and parent have been apart for a significant time. The courts generally issue a number of temporary orders (starting with supervised visits, then a slow increase in unsupervised visits) before the final ruling is given.
It may be different wherever you live.
She can waste money on appeals after the final ruling, but unless something happens that causes major changes, she will lose.
Oh, I'm with you. She's
Oh, I'm with you. She's depleting her own daughter's college fund to pay for it at this point.
At the very least, I removed myself financially from it. In this state, they can appeal even temporary rulings, which temporarily halt rulings until the appeal is heard. I'm assuming this can happen for a long, long time.
Sad. She's willing to screw
Sad. She's willing to screw her own kid out of college savings while she denies the child her father. How can you respect this woman?
You can hate one thing about
You can hate one thing about someone, but love a million other things.
Although this one thing seems to be all-consuming lately.
Seriously? "I know she's a
Seriously? "I know she's a child abuser, but damn she's a good cook."
Her stance with her child is
Her stance with her child is her stance with her child. She's the parent, and for all that you or I know, she could be doing what she think is best. She is legally capable of doing as she pleases in that situation. I give my input, and if she changes, it's fine, and if she doesn't, it's fine. There no use being overly abrasive when there's no point to me being overly abrasive. Her behaviors are noted, and I move forward. Honestly, she probably doesn't see it as wrong, she was raised entitled, and her father is behind her 100% on this situation.
We are clear on one thing though. The two children are going to be raised totally different from one another. Her rules apply to her daughter, our agreed upon rules apply to our daughter. If I wanted to be the stepdaughter's parent, the door is open for me to do so, but I lack those feelings.
No offense, OP, but you are
No offense, OP, but you are really great at justification.
Just because someone thinks they are doing what is right, doesn't excuse abusing a child. You clearly have no empathy for this child who is having her beloved father forced out of her life. Read up on Parental Alienation. There is often a grandparent behind it, they of course think they are doing the right thing, and it is extremely abusive and damaging to the child involved, not to mention the parent that they target.
If she can't get the court to take her side, she will go to work on the child, telling her bad things about her father and trying to make her hate him.
People beat their children all the time and say it's "for the best". That's no excuse.
But clearly, you are willing to overlook her abusing her child because you are "happy".
I see a whole lot of
I see a whole lot of criticism, but not a whole lot of viable solutions.
I'm not going to turn my own daughter into a stepkid, because of what my wife decides for her daughter from a previous relationship. It's not worth it, no. I may lack empathy for the stepchild in that specific case, but I make up for it with empathy for my own daughter.
What would you suggest? Contacting her ex's lawyer, and get them keen on the situation? That's divorce.
I can put in my piece, but that's it really.
I would suggest, yes,
I would suggest, yes, divorcing her, and teaming up with her ex-boyfriend while she can't afford to fight too hard, and showing the court that she's a lying, abusive mother who is alienating her daughter from her father, and that you should get full custody because of this.
But I know you won't do that - you'll throw your stepkid under the bus, and then when it's your turn to be in the ex-boyfriend's seat, you'll act surprised when she turns on you.
Best wishes.
Alienation -- like this guy claimed ???
And now his wife is dead, and he and his GF are arrested. This guy was obviously not rational.
You cannot accept every claim of alienation as justified.
https://www.nytimes.com/2019/06/03/nyregion/missing-mom-jennifer-dulos.html
https://heavy.com/news/2019/05/fotis-dulos/
I'm not sure who you are
I'm not sure who you are referencing, but the OP in this case is clearly describing his wife's efforts at alienation of her daughter. He's watching it happen.
As unjustified?
As unjustified?
I don't think the guy would go that far, but then I think to my feelings on my own daughter. I guess anyone could be capable of terrible things if their children are threatened or taken.
To add beebeel's comment
To add beebeel's comment about appealing the CO. There would have to be a mistake of law to appeal. She can't just appeal bacause she doesn't like the judges decission.
Hopefully you and she don't
Hopefully you and she don't have children...Otherwise she will pull the same crap with you. And, as another member pointed out, your wife is the real abuser. When her child(ren) are older and learn what she has done, and they WILL LEARN of it, they may never speak to her again.
My advice to you is never have children with this...woman.
ETA: I read further on in the thread and see you have a child with her. Good luck with that...
Are you keeping record of all
Are you keeping record of all these things, because she'll pull these same stunts with you if you ever get divorced. It has nothing to do with her XBF being a good or bad father; it's all about control. She wants it, and she's going to lose her marbles if she loses it.
I'd keep a diary or documentation of the crap she is pulling so that if you evet need it, you can present it to your attorney.
We've had discussions about
We've had discussions about control. She never lived in an environment where she wasn't in full control. It was painfully obvious once we had our own daughter together.
But hope for the best, prepare for the worst, without keeping secrets.
She goes over this with me,
She goes over this with me, and I tell her how messed up it is that she and her lawyer can game the system like that.
Does it not disturb you that what she is doing is f@cked up and should you ever not be in her good graces you will also be victim to her controlling ways???
When someone shows you who they are, believe them.....
The red flags are there and you seem to be calm about this behavior.....
If you've got cards in your
If you've got cards in your deck, you don't show them.
Court is a bad place to end up, but in the event that I end up there, it's going to be more in my favor. I'm not preparing to leave my wife, nor do I want to. I believe her when she says her resentment of her ex is an accumulation of feelings over a 5 year relationship.
OP, why won't you listen to
OP, why won't you listen to any of us? My DH became THE ENEMY when his marriage broke up. He was shocked how hard she fought to cut his son out, and was successful. He never expected her to do that at all. Not a bit. We spent 50K fighting it for nothing.
She did the same thing to her other ex-husband - cut his daughter out of his life. She was more subtle than yours is, and made him think the ex was a jerk and the kid just didn't want to see him. He realized later what had happened.
You are not the exception. She will do the same to you, I promise. And the best liar wins in family court.
If my daughter had never been
If my daughter had never been born, I'd be on board with you.
I'm not willing to raise my own in a broken home due to what my wife decides to do with her own. I'm not going to divorce my wife because she doesn't want her ex in her life. I can criticize her, offer up a few toothless ultamatums, tell her I'm becoming unattracted to her due to it, but that's as far as it can go.
I can make progress slowly with the situation, there was a time she'd scream and have a tantrum when I mentioned the stepdaughter seeing her father, now she'll have a calm conversation. I also removed my fianances from the situation.
But the main point here, is that barring her alienation of her daughter, she's an extremely responsible individual who does a lot for the family, and her current alienation is not grounds for me to take my own daughter's life away from the norm.
GoodLuck
GoodLuck
Your story sounds vastly
Your story sounds vastly similar to a friend of mine who is being alienated from his kids by his ex. She has a standing no contact order and he’s getting ready for round three in court with her. Good luck to you, she knows the system and how to play it, I bet she knows how to disappear into the ether if need be also.
In the environment of your
In the environment of your marriage, TMI is a huge problem. You may want to consider moderating the discussion of critical topics and information. If I were you, I would be building my case and compiling information to go to war in a divorce for the duration of the relationship. Past behavior is the best predictor of future performance and her behaviors are alarming.
Prepare and be ready to take care of you and protect your young child from this woman should her proven behaviors turn their focus on you. Hopefully using that information will not be necessary. But better to have it and not need it than to need it and not have it.
Good luck.