Hmmm. Were SKid CODs raised by guilty failed family parents the first victims of gentle parenting?
An interesting statement from an article I read on “Woke” Trends Boomers Just Refuse To Accept triggered this question for me when I read the below section.
Unfiltered Parenting Styles
Gentle parenting, child-led routines, and validating emotions don’t always make sense to older generations who relied on strict discipline and clear authority. They often believe kids should “know their place”, obey rules, and listen without question. However, younger parents are trying to raise emotionally aware kids who understand boundaries without fear.
Of course my experiences and opinions are not those of all Boomers or Xers, I am a last year Boomer so I am both. I consider myself a Xoomer.
The early indications of what is apparently the norm these days was seen with CODs back in the day. They seemed to be the preponderance of the kids who had issues at school. I recall a couple of overheard conversations between parents and a teachers or administrators about a kid who was struggling with a divorce. Not long after that, whatever behavioral issue that kid was having seems to have been rectified and did not repeat.
I do not recall kids of those eras being fear driven in the least. We were adventurers, explorers, inventors, we engaged in face to face relationships, we spent countless hours out in public or the wild doing real activities expanding our own imaginations rather than our parents paying to rent someone else's imagination and instilling fear of the outside, or them, or others, or, or, or, or, or, or.
Except for one experience. When I was about 12yo a group of us crawled under the fence at a Drive In theater about a mile from our neighborhood to watch a double feature. The Exorcist and It's Alive!. That panic ridden screaming late night run home while a breeze rustled the dry fall leaves was terrifying. So, yes, fear was an element of that learning experience.
And for damned sure I never saw a parent storm into a school to confront a teacher or administrator who did their job and disciplined an ill behaved, ill parented student. Then again, teachers in those eras were respected confident professionals who focused on educating rather than coddling and who had clear standards that they enforced in their schools and classrooms.
Parents actually parented because they were adults rather than these stunted naive sub adults who are doing whatever it is that they actually do these days. Apparently mostly they whine, cry victim, play the blame game against prior generations who actually lived and parented successfully, and recognize the fantasy of identity Vs reality and how they feel Vs learning to think.
No doubt the silent majority in more recent generations are raising good kids with standards and are setting proper examples.
As is always the case with the silent majority, it would be great if they would stop being silent and shut down their ill raised wastes of skin generational peers and cram them and their ill raised spawn into some dark isolated corner somewhere.
If they have to exist, I would prefer that they remain unseen, and even better, unheard to be replaced regarding visibility by the silent majority who are true adults, quality parents and their quality kids.
Harrumph!
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Parents who do this say they
Parents who do this say they want their children to lean into and have an understanding of their own emotions.. well.. fear is an emotion.. it's a powerful one. It's, in some ways, nature's way of keeping us safe. So, by doing all we can to reduce a kid's experience with fear.. well.. we are raising weak children.
NOTE.. I am not talking about abusing your kid.. beating them.. berating them endlessly and mercilessly for every small thing.
I am talking about a child "fearing" upsetting their parent by doing things they have been told are destructive or dangerous.. or behaving poorly.. not applying themselves in school.
Because, a kid who learns to pay attention to their parent's directions.. to avoid a hot stove, to not swim unsupervised, to do homework.. to clean their room.. to brush their teeth.. to turn off TV when told.. all of those things are GOOD and HEALTHY things for a kid.
A kid presented with endless options and choices? ... horrible. I cringe when a parent plays 20 questions with their kid.. like they are some manservant for their child. just NO.
Your kid SHOULD be afraid of disappointing you.. and that is not the same thing as being afraid of "you".
Kids should be "seen and not heard".. you learn from listening.. not spouting off and glomming up all the attention in a room.
Kids should learn manners.. and learn that their actions in public impact other people.. running.. screaming in a nice restaurant is not cute.. best compliment to you is when they tell your parents how well behaved you are.
Will it all be a smooth roll? no.. will kids misbehave.. sure.. but a parent's job is to teach a kid how to be a good and contributing member of society.. not someone that is only looking at their own happiness.
Sure, there is balance.. my 95 yo father was raised in a home with a full time housekeeper and the boys got a spanking daily.. because she figured that one of them must have done something (per my father.. haha).. so yeah.. daily spankings probably not right.. and honestly.. I do think parents should avoid physical punishments if at all possible.. when there are a lot more things that parents can do to "inflict discomfort" on the kid and teach them consequences that don't involve raising a hand.
And consequences are handed out in a calm and rational manner.. not in the heat of anger.
And.. sure.. there are some aspects of gentle parenting where parents try to get the child to recognize that their behavior from emotions.. needs to be understood and figured out how to deal with the emotions.. but danged if I would sit there and let a kid repeatedly fail while I softly whispered in their direction.
I think the rise of two working parent households has fed into a lot of this.. where parents just don't have bandwidth to deal with the kids like they used to. and the CODs of yesteryear.. were the first that tended to see this kind of parenting.. parenting from a point of weakness and exhaustion.
I hope that at some point that most of these gentle parent proponents realize how insufferable their kids become.. haha.
Safety was my first concern
Safety was my first concern in the beginning, the first (and last) few times i was responsible for watching my SO's youngest. At 8, he would just run off in any given direction when out in public and wouldn't listen to adults at all. I won't be responsible for a kid who does that, not when he could get run over, fall in a pool, lost in a store or at the fair, etc. This SS was raised with a combo of neglectful but also extremely permissive parenting by the BM, and chaotic parenting by SO (combo of permissive/neglectful but also occasional yelling in anger out of proportion to the situation.)
He has gotten better, so i've been including him more, but the other night, i had enough. When we go out with my family, my dad always buys dinner. The past few times, SSNow15, would order a meal but not finish because he didn't like everything or he just ordered an appetizer as a meal and was still hungry. At the end of the meal, he would ask the server for a whole other meal. Everyone then has to wait for him to either finish the second meal or he will take it "to go."
The other day, I told SO that he needs to sit by SS and supervise his ordering. Well, SO wasn't paying attention and SS did it again. I told SO that if it happens again, SS isn't invited back because it's embarrassing. SO said that BM really only spends time with SS at dinners and parties, at which time she lavishes him with multiple meals and encourages him to get the most expensive thing on the menu. I told SO that SS can do whatever he wants with his BM but with my family, this behavior is bizarre, embarrassing, and insulting.
So anyway, I think "modern" permissive parenting, especially with CODs, is a combo of spoiling and also neglect. Kids aren't really parented at all.
I wonder if the excessive
I wonder if the excessive gentle parenting has something to do with people who apparently have kids in order to have bootlickers that feed their egos, or to "complete" them--never seeing themselves as separate beings. How this fits in with what you describe is that the parent has to do some azz-kissing with the child so that the child doesn't abandon them. These people desperately "need" the child/ren. . . their biggest fear seems to be abandonment. The kids are viewed as peers and BFFs.
BM here could be really tough on the kids but only in the way of "you are a reflection of me" or "we are one--don't mess me up," so she pushed extremely hard (eating habits/weight & public image = "success") yet allowed them to behave like monsters. She was a helicopter parent who worked to keep the kids from having identities of their own. And she laughed at their bad behavior.
DH, strangely, is not by nature a permissive parent, and, while his kids know where the line is that they should not cross, that line at times was located pretty far back in the distance. And, believe me, they smelled where it was and acted accordingly (both poor behavior and knowing when to stop). His early permissive behavior with them probably appeared to be intentional gentle parenting but in fact was fear-driven. The crap he tolerated from them was in total contrast to what he said his views were about how children should or should not behave. Interestingly enough, seems like my skids had two parents who, at least in the early days, parented from fear. Ugh.
* In addition, I think a lot of the super gentle parenting people are just plain lazy. Or drunk.
Interesting. My DW's BioPaternal side created a number of young
women who are breeding so they have someone who will love them forever no matter what. I feel so bad for their kids. These young women were raised in incredibly toxic environments. On some level they are far better than the parents and cyclical family groups that raised them. On other levels, they are doing little more than perpetrating the same crap for their own children.
Their kids are their forever people. Of course the issue is the baby daddies who fertilize and run. No recognition that to attract a quality mate, one has to be of quality themselves.
These young women have a never ending life on social media of beauty/make up tutorials, followed by rants about mean men who show up for a online swipe right date and end up never calling back after the date. No recogniton that the photoshoped AI generated profile pics do not match the reality of being more than 100Lbs over weight and the profile makes no mention of the 3 out of wedlock kids by 2 long gone baby daddies.
All of these young women are truly beautiful and intelligent. Though reality cannot live up to photoshop or AI pics. Nor can their intelligence overcome the reality that they have bred themselves out of a high quality future that would make them a quality mate to a quality... mate.
It is truly sad. Though the majority of my sadness is for their young children who are mommy's loves and minions.
None of these young women have left the small community region they have always lived in. Sadly, the odds of any of their young ones ever leaving or making something of themselves are slim and none best.
Looking for their "forever
Looking for their "forever people." Yes. I think that is a huge thing. And, yes, I feel bad for kids brought into the world "to serve."
Your comments about the photoshopped/AI images had me laughing. BM here used to (probably still does) that and one time accidentally left the the editing tool's watermark across her photo. A local woman posted about her missing 20 something daughter using a ridiculously enhanced photo. Someone asked, "Can you share a real photo so that we know who we're actually looking for?" The second photo was totally different--but real. I just don't get it.
"woke" or boomer....hahhhhh.
"woke" or boomer....hahhhhh... Always interesting.. People that throw around these words in an argumentative way "you're woke" or "what a boomer"..
Kids need rules and boundaries in order to feel safe, not the complete absence of fear. When kids are acting out a lot, getting into trouble, having parents with a clear set of rules to fall back on in actuality does make a child feel safe, rather than the opposite. Children with no rules end up feeling a larger burden to bare of being the adult, or one in charge. They actually feel safer overall when they have an older trusted person in charge.
Kids simply cannot be the ones in charge in a parent and child relationship as they haven't learned the skills and lessons involved in growing up into mature individuals.
Barring abuse, kids raised by parents with standards
have far closer life long relationships with their parents and sibs than those raised with coddle embrace your fee fees based parent models.
Data also indicates that they are far more successful in life, have far more successful adult relationships and far more successful children of their own.
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Were SKid CODs raised by guilty failed family parents the first victims of gentle parenting?
Well.. Maybe not the "first" but definitely have seen a lot of cases where overly gentle parenting lead to a lot of horribly raised children with no boundaries and my step kids weren't an exception they definitely were raised through gentle parenting... It didn't do them any favors as they grew older
I tended to raise my 3 kids with a sort of "lighthouse parenting" approach where I was always there and available and teaching them things and allowing them to come to me where needed for guidance and support.
My husband was a very permissive parent. We had very different parenting styles and our children ended up being raised much differently.
His kids didn't have many boundaries or rules, if any whatsoever. My children had some structure and rules. His kids could basically do whatever they wanted.
My kids were given much freedom and independence, but as they earned it though good behavior and reliability.
His were never, ever told no. Mine were told no many times.
Problems arose when we were thrown together as a family, on vacation, just as an example, where his kids were livid they couldn't always pick out the radio station or what type of meal, at every meal etc etc etc
DH admits several kinds of
DH admits several kinds of mistakes in raising his kids. They always had a voice in decisions, from where to eat out to what house to buy. They thought they were preparing their kids to make adult decisions when they became adults.
But SD expected to continue to participate in decisions for her whole family--parents, aunt, grandparents. Both DH and BM allowed that, so when they divorced she assumed spousal status with them both. When I started dating DH, that wasn't going to work. She was surprised that I bought a car without consulting her. We didn't ask her opinion on repainting our house. From the beginning she resented me because she lost power over her father. He tried to play the middle until I forced him to pick which life partner he wanted.
She now has children of her own. And she will not cede power to them, making her pretty authoritarian. And they seem to be pretty good kids, not that we've seen them in years.
I think it’s balance
Kids need boundaries, but kids also need to be able to express themselves (in non dangerous ways!)
Looking at my current situation, some parents disliked their own parents strict ways and "because I said so" on repeat, they went entirely the other way, instead of landing somewhere in the middle. They heard "gentle parenting" and thought it meant "kids can do whatever".
No, kids can't do "whatever". Other people exist, and the family is a unit, not just a group of people orbiting one Special Someone, on the fanciful island of Me and Mine. You let kids do whatever, and it'll be hell to pay when they have to deal with reality.
But is it really a big deal if your kid wants to dye their hair purple? Or stay up and read if they can't sleep? Or if they make mistakes? Or not agree with you on every point? No, it's not.
There is something to be said for the position that kids
represent their families. Standards of behavior, standards of performance, and standards of hygiene and presentation are part of that.
Kind of a "dress for the job you want" perspective only, dress for the image you want to present in compliance with the standards parents set and enforce.
Purple hair, fine. Half naked or clothing in poor condition, not so fine.
My parents did not appreciate my heavy metal look in the late 70s. So, I was one of the very early adopters of the mullet. Long in the back, presentable in the front, top, and sides. Fortunately my innovation of the mullet did not last for long. A couple of years in my mid teens.
I learned that presentable gave me far better outcomes in interfacing with people than did my head banging style had. So, no more elephant bell bottom jeans and rocker T-shirts with a bandanna tied to my belt held by a Rush buckle. I still enjoyed the music, I just round that a haircut every 6 to 8wks, 501s in lieu of elephant bells, and stylish collared shirts played far better.
It also made life at home far less tense.
Even during my long hair head banger persona years, I was a Yes/No Ma'am/Sir kid. Polite and respectful.
Had I not maintained that parent set standard during that phase, I likely would not have survived.
I was also a night owl so reading all night was not an infrequent thing for me. Though up all night or not, If I was not out of bed on time and ready for school or the day on a weekend, a pitcher of ice water or even an air horn was not off of the table as a consequence for my choices. No major consequences, just tune ups to give clarity that reading all night was fine as long as it did not impact my performance the next day.
My youngest is F to M trans
My youngest is F to M trans and has a sort of "goth trucker" aesthetic. For nicer family dinners with Grandpa, weddings, funerals, graduations, and job interviews if they want to be hired, they have been instructed that it's slacks or jeans, a polo or button-up shirt, and the nose piercing gets flipped upside-down so it can't be seen. At other times, they dress how they like. They are ok with that.
Your youngest is intelligent and situationally aware.
Dress appropriate to the circumstance. That makes a lot of sense.
Goth trucker is an interesting fashion asthetic.
What are a his plans for career, etc.. Just curious.
I always hope for good things for young people. I am sure that you expressed your thoughts when yours came out as trans. I told ours when he came out as a gay man that life could be challenging and that this could make it even more challenging. I then asked him to always be aware of his surroundings and other people and to take care of himself and be safe. His mom and I first told him that we are his mom and dad and that we loved him. Him being gay did not change that.
Some people are not accepting of kids like ours.
"Some people are not
"Some people are not accepting of kids like ours."
Sadly true. But knowing mine from birth, it wasn't a choice. He has always been that way from the time he could talk. I remember being at McDonald's ordering a Happy Meal when he was about 4. They would ask "Is it for a boy or a girl?" He would whisper to me "Say it's for a boy, the toys are better!" He plans to go into HR.
Though not quite from birth, ours was identifiable as gay pretty
young.
Nothing majorly obvious. Just small things that were some early hints. His mom never saw it. Ever. I joined the mix when he was 15mos old. We married the week before he turned 2yo. My first inklings were when he was bout 6-8. Nothing definitive, just little things. Ballet pirouette moves in the outfield during little league baseball games, and a few not blatant other hints. Probably the biggest was how homophobic he was. He was exceptionally uncomfortable around gay people. His mom's work husband is gay. We spent time regularly with him and his husband and their kids. Our kid was extremely uncomfortable around them when he was younger. He verbalized his homophobia not infrequently in relation to our gay friends.
Some reading..... Homophobia is apparently associated with homosexual arousal that the homophobic individual is either unaware of or denies.
For ours, he never had a phase where he was just gay. Starting in early grade school he was enamored with beautiful little girls in his classes."She is so pretty. But she is so annoying when she talks."
Yep son, that can happen.
He always had GFs though he was never intimate with them. He is a strikingly handsome masculine and fit young man. The young women in HS were pretty much lined up around the block. He was just not interested in being intimate with anyone. His two HS GFs both were frustrated with him over how unmotivated by sex he was. His friends and GFs would tease him in front of his mom and I about having zero sex drive. He had a great group of kids as his core friends group.
I suspected for many years. I knew when he was 17. Interestingly, he claims that he did not know until he was almost 19. Though not a HS GF, his HS BFF was a beautiful dynamic scary smart young woman. They spent spring break the year after HS graduation together. Two weeks in hotels, on beaches, sharing a room, bed, showers, etc......
That was his epiphany. "Dad, I love her to death. I always have. But...... it was pretty clear when we were naked in a shower together, in bed naked sleeping together, and I had zero interest in her physically that I'm gay." This confirmed my epiphany moment from more than a year prior. He had a rough few years after that. That epiphany shook him to his core. He struggled with figuring out what was wrong with him, trying to figure it all out. We knew he was not in a good place. Though he was deep into his early USAF career, in training, learning his profession, etc... so our ability to support him in working it all out was limited. He was an adult with a career and a duty he was committed to performing.
Of course when he came out at 22 to his mom and I, he threw me under the bus. "Mom, the moms always know. Besides, dad knew and you guys talk about everything!" The look I got from his mom was extremely notable.
I had caught him surfing gay porn over a year before the spring break with his beautiful BFF. Not that I was looking. He had dropped a bomb the first semester of Sr year so we brought him home from boarding school and enrolled him in our local HS. Part of our rules during that period was he was never in a room with the door closed and he could only use his laptop for school purposes. I had jogged up the stairs to go to our room and saw his door pushed to. Not shut entirely but clearly pushed to. So, I turned R instead of L and nudged his door open. He slammed his laptop closed instantly. I told him I did not want to fight about it but to open his laptop and show me what he was doing. He did, without hesitation. He swore he was surfing women and the gay site had just opened or that he had clicked the wrong link. I asked him of there was something he wanted to discuss with his mom and I about. I told him it was fine and that we were there for him. Nope, just don't tell mom I was surfing porn. Please dad. I honored that request. I never mentioned it to his mom. It was a kid/dad talk and that is where it stayed.
Then about 5yrs later, he threw me under the bus with his mom.
Hmmm... I would say there is
Hmmm... I would say there is a little bit of a difference. IMO (or with SD15) at least, she is a by product of PERMISSIVE parenting. The "do what you want" is disguised at having autonomy in decision making. This usually leads to CODs becoming mini-wives or little dictators in blended family households. Which often puts the SPs against the SKs.
Gentle Parenting (when done right) is more conversational about natural consequences, You chose to disobey, you go to time-out. At least that's what I do anyway. We also talk about feelings with DS4 about his actions and what to do different next time. Some people who claim to "gentle parent" are really permissive parents out of laziness in my opinion. It SHOULDN'T give kids a pass to do whatever they want, but a lot of the time parents don't put in the effort and would rather be their child's BFF. Just my experience as a millenial parent though!