At the end of my rope...
Hi there,
I'm new here. My apologies if I'm not posting this in the correct forum. I'm at the end of my rope and am really seeking support, advice, guidance, a reality check...anything. I'm a mom of three boys ages 19, 17 and 13. My fiancé and I have been together for two years now. We've been living together for 8 months. He has an 11 year old daughter who spends every other weekend with us.
While we were dating, my fiancé would occasionally ask me if his daughter bothered me. She was pretty rambunctious, but as a mom of three boys, I was totally used to that. Plus, I'm of the mindset that they are children, so they are learning as they come into their own. SD would do a few things that were unacceptable, such as bring up his previous relationships, or her mom (my fiancé has never been married and has no other children) but he was/is always quick to call her out on it.
Fast forward to today and I can barely take it anymore. When we told her we were going to get married and they would be moving to my home she was super excited. My oldest son had just moved away so I wanted to give her the largest spare room and move my youngest son into his brothers old bedroom. She loved the idea. Mainly because it meant kicking my son out. I was a little bothered by that but I guess just let it roll off. Every time she is over now it's a weekend filled with drama.
In the past six months she has told lies about me, my youngest son and my dog (she said she was bit) to her aunt. This ensued a bunch of text messages that we had to defend. While I may have been naive thinking this was going to be easier, I never imagined that I would hold such resentment and disdain for a child and it's breaking my heart.
While I don't tolerate her antics any longer, I do still treat her as if she were my own while she is in my home. If I travel, I make sure to bring her home a gift just like I would for my other children. I've gone out of my way to make her feel comfortable in my home, but I can't handle the lies and manipulation. She is so mean and rude to myself and my youngest son. We are constantly talking to her about her behavior but it doesn't seem to be helping. It's only getting worse. We recently took at trip which turned out to be a disaster with her tantrums. My fiancé wanted to go away again but I just cannot. I want to develop some normalcy at home before we go away again.
Last night I basically broke down with my fiancé because im already anticipating the next time she is over and he was so understanding. He really does see it, but how or when will this stop. I told him if it continues I won't be able to have her in my home which is not something I want to enforce. My biggest concern is that she will say something like my son touched her or hit her. Sounds crazy, but I've caught her a couple times showing off her training bra and I'm TERRIFIED. I have to protect my children and myself first.
I could go on and on with examples... I'm sure more will come up anyway. If you're reading this, thank you for taking the time. Any comments are appreciated.
Nanny cameras all through
Nanny cameras all through your house, don't tell anyone that they are there. This will help protect yourself and your kids.
I hadn't even thought of
I hadn't even thought of that, but will be looking into it for sure. Makes me sick to my stomach that's what it has to come down to. Right now my son is not allowed to be alone with her. This may ease my fear a bit. Ugh
I completely understand what
I completely understand what you're going through. Your SD and mine could be one in the same. Mine has recently accused me of wiping my butt with her toothbrush, after she cleaned off something she was painting with in the bathroom sink and her father had to get onto her for not cleaning the sink. I wasn't sure what was left in the sink and asked her if she had had a bloody nose. There was a brownish red stuff all over the sink and handle in her bathroom. She said no, she'd been painting. Her dad looked at the mess and "got onto her" (no punishment, just words) for not cleaning after herself. 2 minutes later, she was getting in trouble for not having brushed her teeth before bed. She goes in to get her toothbrush and comes to our room holding it and says, "daddy, there is something on my toothbrush". After inspecting it, it looked like brown paint. She then turned to me and said, "did you wipe your butt with my toothbrush?" I was livid. She had just finished cleaning red and brown paint out of the bathroom sink and off the sink handles, which her toothbrush was next to and she asks me if I wiped my ass with her toothbrush. OMG!!!!
That's just one of the many things I could tell you as well. We're struggling on how to get through our issues, so all I can tell you is that I get it and completely understand what you're going through and having these negative feelings towards your SD sucks....I know.
It really does suck... Even
It really does suck... Even though I knew this relationship would take time, I always wanted a daughter so I was thrilled to have another girl in the house. I also had a step mom growing up who I adored. In NO way did I ever want to replace her BM, but she's not even allowed to sleep over her mothers house. She lives with her aunt because my fiancé works in the medical field = long shifts. I always imagined she would eventually live with us, but can't even entertain the thought any longer. Hygiene is also a BIG issue. She just had 4 cavities filled and had several last year. Her dad pays 100% of everything. She won't even changer her underwear. I bought her a new loofah and body wash that is still FULL months later. We usually have to send her back in because she comes out still smelling. I'm trying to sympathize with her because she's young but I've never met another child like her. I feel horrible about it and don't just want to give up but it's not looking good right now. I'm so afraid things are only going to get worse as she becomes a teenager.
Yeah, you pretty much hit the
Yeah, you pretty much hit the nail on the head. She's also an only child and an only grandchild on her dad's side. The jealousy is definitely normal and to be expected, but some of the other behavior is not okay. She told her dad and her aunt that I told her my son was "soooooo much better than her" and "she was never going to be my daughter because she wasn't good enough." We picked her up that weekend and she got into the car and apologized immediately for lying. We made her read her text messages out loud to discuss them and that's when we put her in therapy. She's constantly saying that everyone hates her and she's stupid and dumb. I won't tolerate her when she gets like that. I've explained to her many times that we don't give ourselves negative self talk. She has to go into her room now when she acts that way. It's helped greatly rather than to give in and coddling her. She hasn't said those things to herself in quite a while and the last time she did she looked at me and almost immediately stopped. She was pretty redirected after that. I should say, I absolutely do not yell at her. I'm firm and clear, but will not discuss things with her if she wants to argue. Arguing with an 11 year old is like banging your head against jagged glass. I simply point to the door and tell her it's not up for discussion. I won't even argue with my own kids! Tough love and all that...
Haha, I probably would have
Haha, I probably would have said something the same, but we have a weird sense of humor in our home!
I completely understand what
I completely understand what you're saying and I do agree. We had definitely taken several trips together before this year and none of them had been this bad before. I had also slept over his house a couple times, but I'm fairly old school. I didn't want him to move in unless there was a full commitment. While I do still want to get married, I've told my fiancé that it most likely won't happen very soon the way things are going. He completely understands my concerns and is totally on my side, but I still know this must hurt him tremendously. At times, I almost think it would be easier if she did live with us because it's the transitions from house to house that are the worst. That said, I've made it very clear we will not be pursuing custody unless she is at risk in her current situation. I don't think I could turn my back if that were the case, but she seems to be content living with her aunt even though her aunt takes no responsibility for her behavior. It's not just at our house that she acts out. School has also been a big issue. He has recently gotten her into therapy too. Other that this, her dad and I have a fantastic relationship and my boys adore him. They have only met one other man and that was their dad, but he passed away. I think it would be heartbreaking for them if I gave up on this relationship. I'm trying to outweigh the bad with the good, but reality of the next decade is definitely starting to set in...
How did you fiance react to
How did you fiance react to your breakdown and to her other behavior? I get that he isn't doing enough to address the behavior from SD, but is he being supportive and understanding of your concerns?
Realistically, this is an EOWE situation, which isn't a lot of time, but it's WAY too much time to be miserable in your own home. and as downsouth points out, she could be on your doorstep at some point! You need to decide whether this man is worth it.
My fiancé is very supportive.
My fiancé is very supportive. He made a comment last night that he didn't like feeling stuck in the middle and I kind of flipped out. There is no middle in my eyes - her behavior is unacceptable. Period. He agreed and listened to everything I said very patiently. He kinda blows me away sometimes. He just hugged me and told me he loved me and that we were going to continue to work things out. I told him that if it continues we may need a break and she may not be allowed over if the lying doesn't stop. I don't want it to come down to that though. I don't feel would be fair to him or her. I'm just concerned for my youngest son mostly. The last time she came over I sent him to stay with my mother. He definitely addresses her behavior and recently put her in therapy, but I know therapy will take a lot of time and if it's not supported by the other side, which I don't believe it is, it's just going to be counteractive.
Exactly. This is why I'm so
Exactly. This is why I'm so concerned. Last time she was over my son went to stay with my mom. He was happy to do so and didn't question as to why. I treated it as a regular visit with gma. When I was traveling he also stayed with her while his daughter was over. My fiancé loves having my boys around so he was a little disappointed but I didn't want to have to worry about it half a world away and he completely understood why. There have been other weekend where I've made ourselves "occupied", justifying it as they needed alone time, but then I'm even more filled with resentment because that's exactly what she wants.
I completely agree they need
I completely agree they need alone time. I try to make sure they get it every time she visits. I also travel a lot so I've gone a month without seeing her sometimes. Last time I left she had taken one of my house plants that her dad gave me and put it in her room. I replaced it with a different one so I think that's where the attitude came from that weekend. Maybe I should have picked my battle, but I was a little irritated. I get that she would have jealousy issues. That's normal. In my eyes she shouldn't take things without asking me first, though, and sometimes she needs to ask me, not her dad. Today it's a plant, tomorrow it could be my jewelry! The crying under the kitchen table, throwing food, slamming doors, lying about things I've said/done to her or things my son has done or my dog, is definitely NOT normal. Like I mentioned, she's not to be alone anymore in case she lies about something. I don't even want to be alone with her! I'm hoping she's still just adjusting even though it's been 8 months.
I hope your drama is at bay now. I've put all future plans on hold for right now. It's not that I don't still want to get married, I would have even considered having another child with this man, I just can't take the drama for much longer. Not sure I could do seven years unless something gives...
Yeah, I definitely thought it
Yeah, I definitely thought it was a bit odd, too. From what I was told, BM got into an DWI/accident after dropping off her daughter at school. She hit a tree. In order to get BM to give up her parental rights, or else have child services involved because it wasn't the first time, SD was to go live with the aunt. My fiancé agreed to it. BM has no rights to the child any longer. SD used to stay with her mom every other weekend, but hasn't been allowed to sleep at her house in over six months. Her mom lives in another state too.
When all of this happened, my fiancé said he just didn't know what to do and he was afraid BM wouldn't give up her parenting rights so he agreed with it. He bought a house down the street from the aunt, which meant relocating to another state, where is daughter was living, and has paid for everything 100% ever since. He doesn't miss a visitation and takes any extra time he can. I see what a great father he is and what a struggle it's been for him so I get it for the most part. It's easier for the dad to walk away or let someone else raise the child. As a mother, I can't begin to describe how angry I am at BM for not holding it together for her daughter. I would move mountains for my kids. Some days I feel like I have. I also feel like SDs issues stem primarily from her mother and living situation.
SD is definitely not an angel in her current situation. The aunt used to be more open with my fiancé and I've talked with her privately about SD on a couple occasions, but not since we've been engaged and SDs behavior has gotten worse. I once asked her if the current situation was permanent, mainly because I was concerned if SD went back to live with BM if she would give us trouble with visitation, but she became a little defensive. I think she's afraid SD will WANT to come live with us and she definitely doesn't want to lose her. I don't think she would throw in the towel very easily. I also think they are concerned about the mental stability about BM and BM wouldn't be able to handle SD living with us. Rather than getting BM help, it seems their family likes to brush it under the carpet.
I love my fiancé, he is a great man, but I'm not blind to the situation. It's already gotten to a point where I'm concerned for myself and my son (and my dog!) with her lying. On the other hand, I have this amazing man who adores me and would most likely do whatever it took to keep the relationship going. He's even suggested moving away and seeing his daughter during summers. I can't just walk away from how compromising he has been. He really is a good guy all around. And SD has had a tough situation. I'm hoping therapy will help.
Oh, he would have SD move in
Oh, he would have SD move in in a heartbeat. Trust me. And I was totally on board with it in the beginning. The plan was to initially let her finish the 2017/18 school year before we broached the subject with her aunt, but shortly after he moved into my home he wanted to go down to the courthouse and see what it would take. Then he wanted to takes steps further. That's about when she started exhibiting unacceptable behavior and I became very nervous. He backed off immediately. If SD wants to come to live with us I'm still not opposed to it, but she knows that there are rules in my house she has to follow. My boundaries are VERY clear. This is why there's drama every other weekend. She doesn't like it...
I should clarify that BM would not have given up her rights unless SD went to live with her aunt and not my fiance. Fiance agreed because he didn't want to see child services involved and because they had no court agreement (they were never married) so it wasn't like he could just take her. Or so he thought. The aunt's house was a safe and neutral zone and he went for it. He did pick up his entire life and relocate to be near SD, but BM still hasn't gotten her act together 7+ years later. I think BM still hasn't gotten over the fact that my fiance didn't want to marry her, which is why she probably had some sort of relapse after we became engaged and the aunt now no longer lets SD sleep over her house currently. She apparently had substance abuse issues while they were dating and that's why he left the relationship. I try to keep an open mind knowing there are two sides to every story, but the fact that she isn't even allowed to have her daughter speaks volumes to me. Nor does she help with anything financially. The aunt that SD lives with is actually from BMs side of the family.
My fiance really does love me and I know he would do just about everything to keep this relationship going, even if that meant moving away. He's an excellent father, but that doesn't mean he can't still be living further away. She would just stay with us during summers and holidays. Honestly, even though we've talked about it, it's wishful thinking. Last year, before we became engaged, I decided I wanted to open a business so I'm just starting the process now and I also have several properties nearby. I say I'd drop it all, but in reality it's easier said than done. I am looking though.
He would never ask me to ship my children away, but they have a pretty good relationship with him. My children are very respectful to him. They know if they weren't they would have a big problem. My oldest went through some issues in his senior year and he was not allowed in the home until he decided to respect my rules. Like I said, my boundaries a very clear. I also believe that a marriage comes first. So yes, part of me has an expectation that if SD is going to be an issue than we have to be a team. That's not choosing one over the other, it's saying we will not tolerate any inappropriate behavior.
If she is a manipulative liar
If she is a manipulative liar then I would invoke her banishment from your home immediately. Particularly with her exhibiting sexually oriented behavior (the bra thing) with two teen boys in the home. Protect your sons.
Good luck and take care of you and your own.
Ugh...I feel so naive! I know
Ugh...I feel so naive! I know it sounds like TERRIBLE behavior, but part of me feels that she is a child and has to learn what is unacceptable. For example, when my boys got cell phones I sat down with them and talked about what sexting was and why it was so inappropriate and how it could easily destroy their lives. Many teens innocently send pictures without even thinking about it! It's so scary, but it doesn't mean they are bad kids who have bad parents. It happened to a friend of mine who has a "model" family with a loving relationship with her husband of 15+ years...
SD is an only child and had no other cousins on my fiances side of the family. She's spoiled, and there are a lot of people who feel guilty about her situation with her deadbeat BM, so she's spoiled even more. She's constantly looking for attention and hasn't been taught what's inappropriate behavior, especially how to act around boys. My fiance is completely aware of her promiscuity, so at least there's that. I know he wants to protect my children, and me, just as much as I do. She's not allowed to be alone with them. Period. And he is totally okay with that. Plus, my boys would probably freak out if she tried to do anything. My youngest is aware of the behavior and removes himself from situations all the time. I've been very open with my children about her issues and my concerns.
I think I will be putting cameras in my home very soon, regardless. Just in case.
Sounds like Aergia a couple
Sounds like Aergia a couple of years ago.
You are not going to like my advice, but live separately till she's out of school. You have to think about your son, I put mine first, although he was away in boarding school most of the time, he still came home holidays,
Postpone the wedding and ask your fiance to get a flat close by where he and your SD can stay week-ends. Your house your rules. When she's not with him he can stay with you.... I've been doing it fir 5 years now and Aergia will be gone end of this year, The house is up for sale (was SO's and BM's house, I own half of it now) We will buy a new house, where Aergia can not tell me it's not my house and I know she will never visit. I've been with SO for 14 year, it's totally do-able to live separately.
Then simply disengage, your son gets the bigger room, she gets the smaller room, she does not live there permanently, she visits. Or the bigger room is simply a guest bedroom, it's not her room, she does not decide on the decor and she does not move shit in.
Your house and your rules hon, your son is equal to fiance, your son should not be leaving the house week-ends to accommodate this little bitch brat, your son have first option on the house, before fiance and his brat.
You're right! I don't really
You're right! I don't really like it! That's not to say it isn't good advise, or doesn't work for some people, though! I just know I can't live like that.
I was married for a long time and believe in traditional marriage. I'm fine postponing the wedding, I already have in my mind though we had yet to set a date, but I won't live apart. My fiance would probably get married tomorrow, though. If worse comes to worst, he will have to spend time with SD out of the home. And I really don't want it to come to that, but maybe just temporarily so she knows what won't be tolerated. I don't think we're there quite yet, but it definitely has been heading in that direction. My plan right now is that when my middle son moves out in a couple years she will move into that bedroom, which is smaller. Then when my boys come to visit home there will be a nice guest bedroom for them to stay. Right now my oldest stays in the basement, which is fine, but not as welcoming as a bedroom, especially as they get older. We put her in the room she's in now because she still sometimes wakes up sometimes and it's closer to our bedroom. My youngest son was not even upset by it so I didn't think it was a big deal. I was more irritated at her attitude towards him, like she was happy he was getting moved out...
I'm just doing my best to help her adjust right now. Trying to be patient in the hopes it will all get better. She's so young, I refuse to let her destroy something good.
I think there is a lot of
I think there is a lot of stuff going on in the background here that is causing your issues. I don't know what went on in the past or how they got into this mess, but the current situation is not workable. And I believe it's a lot more complex than you think, and not the stuff typical on this forum.
The BM has signed over her rights, which means that this is no longer her daughter. Now, I'm a little bit confused here because typically you are not ALLOWED to sign over your rights unless the other parent has a new spouse/ stepparent who is willing to adopt the child and take over for you as their parent. You can also be stripped of your rights by the court usually through CPS, but while you would have no rights to the child, you would still be required to pay child support.
Either way this child believes she has been abandoned by her mother. When her mother abandoned her, her father should have taken over as the primary, but he didn't, and with only EOW visitation he's barely in her life at all. Children are evolutionarily designed to bond to their parents, or parent, and then count on them to fulfill their needs, and neither parent is caring for her.
The bottom line is as far as the 11 year old is concerned, she has been abandoned by BOTH parents. She has been adopted by an aunt, who probably only did it out of obligation to her sister, and may very well view the girl as a burden that she is now responsible for. Is the aunt single? How fit of a foster parent is she? How much training and experience does she have to deal with the additional challenges that foster children entail?
Children raised in foster care are not normal, and this is essentially what you are dealing with. Your husband has EOW visitation with an 11 year old girl who has been abandoned by her parents and raised in foster care. To make things worse for this poor girl, her parents who have abandoned her are still around, so she's being raised by a foster while seeing that her parents are doing just fine without her. Children in foster care adopt some reasoning for why it was impossible for their birth parents to be there for them and forgive them, or learn to hate their birth parents. They come up with some way to justify their situations to themselves so they can be at peace with it. This girl has not been able form these defense mechanisms because her parents are still around sitting in the shadows and she has a weak relationship with them. Both her parents are literally right there watching this and neither one of them will care for her. (Through her eyes.) All the visits are doing are showing her how well her parents are doing without her, and how they don't need or want her.
A child in this situation is likely to develop a myriad of behavioral issues due to her abandonment issues and the self hatred it probably resulted in. I would be very surprised if this girl was normal. Read about the experiences of people who have fostered children in the system and see how those children behave. False sexual allegations made against parents or siblings are a dime a dozen.
This girl needs extensive therapy, that's a given. Once every two weeks chatting or playing board games with a masters level counselor will do absolutely nothing for her. She needs a certified psychologist with a phd who has experience with abandonment issues or foster kids, and she needs sessions preferably twice a week. She may or may not need an additional psychiatrist for meds. In addition your DH needs to make a decision. He has EOW visitation with a ticking time bomb that will only get worse as she gets older. The manipulations and cries for attention of an 11 year old turn into petty crimes and irresponsible sexual behavior by the time she's 13. And things tend go downhill from there through the teen years.
Her father needs to keep her out of his home completely because she IS a danger to his family, or he needs to take responsibility for the fact that he has completely failed his child up until now, wrestle custody of her back from the aunt, (if the mom really has no rights that should be easy) keep her in his home full time, and start parenting this girl and do whatever he can to undo the damage that him and her mother have done to her. The longer he waits to do this, the more set in her behaviors and beliefs this girl will become, and the less likely it will be that he will be able to do anything to save her.
And as for your
And as for your situation...
See what your fiancé wants to do. Figure out whether or not you can support him in his decision. You either accept that he has a daughter who probably needs him but isn't welcome in his home that he chooses to have almost no relationship with, or you take the girl into your home, and take full responsibility for helping him raise a badly damaged child with all the drama and difficulty that will likely entail for you and your children.
Under no circumstances would I recommend staying with this man while he has EOW in the home with his daughter. She is too great of a liability and represents too great of a danger to your children. Those weekends are a good opportunity for her to do things that might result in your own children being taken away, and given her upbringing, she very well may. I guess what I am saying is that whatever she is doing right now, will get much worse as she gets older if the current arrangement continues. This is something you need to consider.
Wow, Solidshadow7, thank you
Wow, Solidshadow7, thank you so much for your reply. I hadn't thought about it like that. You are so right, though. It's basically like she is in foster care while her parents are living their life. BM still can't get her act together, but does whatever she wants with zero responsibility, and yes, her dad is doing very well and we are very happy living our life. We have a beautiful home, take vacations, etc...I can really sympathize with SD and it makes me feel terrible for her. I just don't know if I can handle raising her full time now that I've been faced with the reality of what that will look like. We have asked her if she would like to spend more time at our house and have mentioned casually that maybe she could even go to school in our town, but she got VERY anxious. She is VERY attached to the aunt, most likely because of her abandonment issues.
The aunt is actually the BM's aunt, so SDs great-aunt. She has raised children and currently watches over her grandchildren during the day. It's almost like a grandparent situation. She is VERY attached to SD also. When I asked if the situation was permanent one time she gave me a very strong look. I was asking more for concern that DH would have to deal with BM in the future (she used to keep SD away from him) but I think she sensed that I really would have been happy to take her. I love children, and would have had more, but I wouldn't bring another child into this situation.
My children and I have already been through a lot. I just don't know if I have it in me to take this on and I don't think it would be right for me to let my fiance walk away from his daughter like that. He really has been a constant in her life even though he doesn't have her all the time. He gardens with her, rides bikes, cooks, takes her to volunteer outings, skis...you name it. He's a very hands on parent and doesn't allow much screen time, if any. I know he would take her in a heartbeat, but he honestly doesn't know what the right thing to do is. My concern is also that if she did come to live with us he works crazy shifts at the hospital and I would be taking on a HUGE responsibility. I'm just now seeing the light with my bioteenage drama and my boys were fairly easy! This is a whole new level and I'm concerned about my own children in this situation.
Thank you for the reality check. You're very articulate and it's clear you have a good sense of what's going on. I'm going to have to make a very hard decision in the near future. I really do hate to give up on this little girl, though. As difficult as she is, none of this is really her fault. She is now seeing a psychologist. That was something I insisted on.