Age children should move out or Contribute
My wife and I have 5 children between us and live in a 4 bedroom house. We have a 23 year old who lives with us. She doesn't help out around the house NEARLY as much as I think is reasonable and she doesn't contribute financially because she doesn't work. And, because of the number of kids and rooms available, we have a 15 year old son sharing a bedroom with us. I've been bringing the issue up for awhile to my wife but she is content to let things continue, only urging me to look for a larger house with more room. To me, a 23 year old needs to move out or contribute financially or with the household work. But my wife thinks I'm "picking on" her daughter. To make things worse, her daughter spends most of her time in her room rarely ever talking or acknowleding my kids at all. I would appreciate honest thoughts that could help me gain perspective here. Thanks.
Oh hell no. At 18 or HS
Oh hell no. At 18 or HS graduation, whichever is first, a kid either launches or .... becomes the live in Chore Bitch/Beck-and-Call-Boy. Launching can include going to college, working, both, etc... and can also include parental support... if.... the kid is performing.
You can get that 23yo out in a matter of hours if you inform her and her mother that she either starts working full time/ is in school or she is the family's live in servant. This is how we got SS-27 to launch after HS. He was not ready for college and had no interest in working. So... we worked his ass off.
His mom went CPA on his ass with a spread sheeted chore list from hell. He either completed 8 full hours of drudgery chore work by the time his mom and I got home from work or ... the next day we left him on the curb when we left for work. Nuso food, no water, no key to the house. If he did not perform, his survival for the next day was not out concern. After the first time he tested out resolve I pointed out the garden hose for the next time he chose to test us. He was mortified at the thought of drinking out of the garden hose. *diablo*
That kid swept, vacuumed, mopped, scrubbed toilets, polished bathtubs showers and sinks, dusted, cleaned windows, stripped and remade the beds, washed the linens and all of his, mine and his mom's laundry, folded it all, put it away, did touch up painting in the house and on the iron fences, he mowed, trimmed, edged, weeded, fertilized, power washed, sliced, diced, chopped, cut, cooked and cleaned up and then he did it all over again.
After 4mos of being our live in chore bitch he enlisted in the USAF. We did not pay him. That was the price of enjoying the home and family after he reached 18. He graduated HS at 17 so we gave him that summer until his 18th B-day to sow his oats then... his ass was ours.
With you, your wife and 4 sibs to clean up after, cook for, and be the beck and call chore bitch for... she will launch in a hurry. Creating a burning platform to motivate adult children to launch is something that responsible parents must do upon occassion.
Our son knew he had the mom and dad full meal deal college scholarship. He chose not to accept it. I am actually proud of him though at the time it drove us insane. After his entire Sr. year of us harping on him to get his applications in for colleges he sat us down and told us "I know college is important and i will eventually go. But, I am not ready to put in the effort and it will be a waste of my time and your money.". We made his continued presence in our home dependent on having a full time job. He was not interested. So, his chore bitch career began.
19 days from now will be his 9th service anniversary in the USAF. He is doing great. A year ago he completed an Associates Degree in Computer Science and he is slllooooooowly progressing towards completing his BSCS. Not as quickly as his mom and I would like... but it is his life. He is an adult and he is doing his own thing on his dime rather than ours. We are proud of him.
Light that platform on fire, turn her into the house elf and see how quickly she launches.
Your opening comment, "Oh
Your opening comment, "Oh Hell no" says it all. Your advice about launching or becoming the chore bitch was exactly wheat I proposed over a year ago. My wife felt that was "unfair". Unfortuantely, thats a big reason why we're in the situation we're in. Mother will justify, rationalize, or excuse her daughter's behavior and lack of help, and she or somebody else will end up doing the work the daughter won't. It's really an unbelievable thing to witness! UN-BELIEVABLE!
So giving her chores doesn't work. Talking to wife doesn't help because she thinks that simply expecting the daughter to make sure the kitchen is clean when we get home from work is "too much to ask". My next and perhaps final solution is to ask my wife's friends for help. I know they see it. I'm going to ask one of them to say something to my wife.
Can you restrict finances somehow?
Does your wife work? Or are you the main earning spouse? If you can restrict the finances for the 23 yo somehow that will be a definite wake-up call.
Your wife really needs to understand that by enabling her daughter, she is cippling her from a life of richness. Hobbling her. What kind of job is going to let her skate by on doing nothing?
Or... just have the locks
Or... just have the locks rekeyed and no one enters the home until you return from work each day at which point SS-23 can get her chore bitch on or .... everyone is on the curb when you leave for work in the AM. The other 4 kids and your DW will climb SD-23's ass in a hurry and make damned sure she does her extensive chore list before you leave for work the next AM.
Misery has a way of adjusting behavior. I would abandon the state of passive unhappiness that seems to be prevelent in your home and marriage and shift to delivering a state of active misery until your get the results that are needed when it comes to the slug of an SD-23.
This is not fair to you, to your wife, or to the 4 younger kids. Do not continue to sacrifice the lives and happiness of 6 others to cater to the Skidiot Skidult SD-23.
Rags, you are right. The
Rags, you are right. The happiness of the other 6 are being sacrificed to cater to the SD-23.
I raised my neice and when
I raised my neice and when she started college I gave her a car. At first she was great about helping with chores. But she started to slack after SO and SKs moved in with us. I could understand her frustration as SKs are lazy and do not do anything. But, I also wasnt going to let her be a mooch either. So I gave her a choice and a deadline. If she didnt want to help out around the house, then she would get a job and pay rent. She would still be responsible for cleaning up after herself. She chose the job and rent and she does make sure her room is clean and she washes her own dishes and does her own laundry. She also buys her own laundry soap and personal supplies, pays for her own car repairs. Her rent basically covers her car insurance and is put towards groceries. It's not about the money but teaching her to be responsible. I also make her maintain a savings account which I monitor because she will be moving out in a year to go onto get her Bachelor's degree.
love this
Great advice and now I want a house elf lol
Is the ADULT in college? Are
Is the ADULT in college? Are there any plans for launching? At what age does your wife think it would be appropriate for her ADULT to move out?
What are the ages and sexes of the other children? No way a married couple should be sharing with a teenager...
At this point, the discussion should not have anything to do with her contributing to stay... it should be when is she moving out.
The other kids are 18 (moving
The other kids are 18 (moving out slowly as he has a job and is taking college classes), 16, 15, and 9.My wife and I both work. We don't give the 23 year old any money, but she doesn't need it when all her needs are met by the house.
Yes. My wife is enabling and stuntig her growth. I've used the words"learned helplessness" to explain to my wife whats happening.
The 23 year old has been taking online classes for a few years now. But often she drops them without telling anyone. My wife and the 23 year oldt alk about launching but I see no progress.
WHat the step daughter is trying to do is make money by playing games on line and get subscribers. She is in her room 22 hours a day. This is not an exagerration.
Can the kids, INCLUDING the
Can the kids, INCLUDING the 23yr old, share rooms so the teen is not in the adult married couple bedroom?
If miss video game superstar had to share a room, she might get uncomfortable.
Let's face reality. The skidult is not going to grow up on her own - find a job, go to college regularly, etc. It's going to get ugly, real ugly, before it gets better...
It may get to the point of "daughter or me". That might be the only way to get her out.
Shut off the internet during
Shut off the internet during normal work hours. She will GTF out in a hurry.
Bedrooms need to be
Bedrooms need to be reconfigured. There is no way a child over infant stage should be sharing the marital bedroom. SD23 gets her things in cardboard boxes to make her move out simpler.
Change the router password and turn it off when you are not home and after 11pm. If she needs the internet for school, she can use the local library during the day. Make life hard at home.
Thank you all for your
Thank you all for your thoughts and ideas. Many of your suggestions have been made already with no effect. Mother will not enforce. Stepped Out's suggestion, "daughter or me" is the route I'm taking.
Yea... if she chooses you, it
Yea... if she chooses you, it is going to be a long road to let go of the resentment that I can only assume has built.
To be honest, I'm not sure I'd give the choice... I would make it for her.
But then, my bullsh!t bucket is full. Perhaps yours has more room.
15 year old sharing YOUR bedroom????!!!
I never even had a toddler share our bedroom...OH HELL NO
The 15 year old ( SS) was 11
The 15 year old ( SS) was 11 when we moved into this house. The 23 year old was 19 and was supposed to be here for 9 months. After that, the SS was to get her room. This living situation was supposed to be temporary. Now, my wife wants to buy a bigger home so that all the "children" have a room.
Nope. I would immediately
Nope. A bigger house just facilitates the clinging SKids and gives your DW far too much leeway to keep coddling her kids well into what should be their adulthood.
I would immediately grab the 15yo and two of you move SD-23's shit to the garage and move SS-15 into the newly vacant room. I would run to Walmart and buy a cot and dump in in the garage on top of SD-23's shit and tell her either get her new garage accommodations set up or GTF out. Once SD's shit is in the garage and you are out to purchase SD's new cot, go buy SS-15 new furniture and a new bed then help him repaint his new room purging any remaining stench from SD-23's far too long residence in that room.
No discussion, no letting mommy intervene, just do it. If you do not make SD's presence and life in the home untenable she won't launch and mommy will continue to coddler her.
Wife told you to look for. Abigger house to accommodate
Princess laziness so everyone can live off you financially?? Yesh thats bad parenting and not at all solving the situation...
Wife contributes. Not 50-50
Wife contributes. Not 50-50 but more like 35-65.But with the rest of the kids getting older and bigger, our resources deplete alot faster than they used too and, obviously, its costing us more. The money factor exacerbates the problem.
Which is exactly why SD needs
Which is exactly why SD needs to launch immediately and you do not need to be buying a bigger house. Supporting a special needs adult aged child is one thing. Supporting a waste of skin Skidult or adult BK is something else entirely.
You said you moved into her
You said you moved into her home... you aren't paying 65% of a mortgage that you are not on deed, are you?
This all sounds incredibly unfair for you and your children.
No. I bought the house. But
No. I bought the house. But we moved in together. Even though we had 5 kids and only 3 bedrooms between them, I was led to understand that my SD would only be there for 9 months, so the SS would get her room while my 2 girls shared a room and my son got a room. SS didn't want to share a room with my son because he felt room was too small so wife and I agreed to give him space in our room. At that time, he was only there for 2 days a week. But a a couple years ago, he decided to stay with us full time.
Here's where things get interesting
My son is processing out of the house to go live with his mother. He is 18 now, working and going to school. There will be a room available soon. My SS was told years ago that he would get the SD's room when she left. My youngest daughter was promised the room when my son moved out at 18, I want to give it to her. My wife,obviously, wants me to give it to her son. I see the logic behind this, but I still think its unfair.
I don't see logic in any of
I don't see logic in any of this situation. When your DS-18 moves to his mom's your youngest daughter was promised that room and she should get that room.
SS-15 should get his elder sisters room when she moves either to the garage or to a tent in the back yard. Better yet, she moves out completely.
That's what I believe is
That's what I believe is right. I think my wife agrees, but SS sees that a room will soon be available. Obviously, he wants it, but knows its intended for one of my girls. So thats where the pressure to buy a larger house comes in. And thats why I'm turning the attenton towards SD-23 who is taking up valuable space.
Either sd23 finds her wings
Either sd23 finds her wings or her mom and all her kids can find wings.
This is rediculous and you have been far more accomdating than most people would have been. Time to put your foot down.
Thank you and I agree. It is
Thank you and I agree. It is time to put my foot down.
Wow so your wife basically
Wow so your wife basically wants to buy a larger house, FOR a 23 yo. NOPE.
Part of this is cultural and
Part of this is cultural and part of it is something else. Cuturally,my wife comes from a bckground where the children stay at home until they marry and sometimes even then, they still stay home. Even though that way is changing in her family, my wife still holds to it to a certain degree, but defnitely not full scale.
Another reason is my wife feels guilt. SD-23 becamse depressed after her parents divorced. SD-23 still talks about the effect it had and continues to have on her.
It is a manipulation tactic.
It is a manipulation tactic. Is she seeking therapy for her "COD depression"?
Also, that is your WIFE'S
Also, that is your WIFE'S culture, but not yours... you have compromised by letting her stay this long, now it's her turn to compromise and launch the adult.
I stopped reading after you
I stopped reading after you said that a 15 year old was sharing a bedroom with you and your wife. Nope! Adults need a "child-free" space in the home. Maybe you should force the 23 year old to share her room with the 15 year old. That might inspire her to move out.
When and if my wife and I
When and if my wife and I talk again, I will propose that as a solution. As of right now, my last proposition was for her to leave and move in with either Biological father, or grandparents who have an available room and live just 10 minutes away.
What? There are other optionS
What? There are other optionS available that are reasonable, yet your wife prefers to share your bedroom with her teen?
This makes it 100x worse.
I hate to ask the elephant in the room question... but how the heck are you able to have intimate time with your wife with ss in the room?
Friends have asked the same
Friends have asked the same question. We used to find time when the SS wasn't home, or find other moments when he was occupied elsewhere. Like I said before, initially, he was only there 2 days a week. But since a year or so ago, he's lives here everyday because he didn't want to go back to his biological father's house.
I can't imagine how I would
I can't imagine how I would feel if SD15 still lived with us at 23. *Shudder* I made sure that DH and I had the "Launch after high school or get a job and contribute" talk with her the minute she started high school and we refreshed her memory about once a month or so. In the meantime, chores were how she earned her keep. Along with keeping up on her own laundry, she was to rinse and put the dinner dishes in the dishwasher and tidy up the kitchen, make sure the garbage was taken out and mop the floors once a week. Realistically, that isn't too much for a 15 year old. At most, it was half hour to an hour of her time. Even so, she'd cry and complain that she had SO MUCH RESPONSIBILITY and that her life was SO HARD. She ran away to her 20 year old half sister's house about a month ago. We called her bluff and now she wants to come back because being an "adult" is so much harder than being a kid. Only now she can't come back, because our state is being quarantined and SD10 is immunocompromised, so SD15 has to deal with the consequences of her own actions. She will not be coming back into this house, and I've told DH that if she does I will be moving out.
Also, sidenote: my family was poor growing up and my mom is a chaotic narcissist so we often had to live with other people... Starting when I was ten until I graduated high school I had to share a room with my mother. I HATED it, I resented my mother so much for it and it was traumatizing to not have a space of my own or privacy during those formative years. I feel for your 15 year old. If I were you, I'd tell your wife that if for no other reason, get that 23 year old cow out of there so that your 15 can have some gd privacy. And so you and your wife can have some privacy, too. Because maybe if you guys could be intimate, she'd be more likely to hear you out.
So basically what I'm saying is chores and limiting her access to being a freeloader are the only way to get her to launch. Unless you want to give your wife an ultimatum.
Thank you for your thoughts.
Thank you for your thoughts.
I did give my wife an ultimatum. I told her how detrimental these conditions are for everyone in the house (even SD-23) and either it changes or it's over.
Last night at dinner, SD-23 was at the table and stayed there until everyone finished eating. Usually, she either leaves the table the minute she's done eating, or she takes her food to her room. This time, she stayed till the end, just sitting in her chair not saying a word. Basically, pouting.
BUT, she "cleaned up" like everyone else. I say "cleaned" because while other were clearing the table, sweeping the floor, or putting the dishes away, she... get this... put the bread clip back on the bag of bread and then stood my the table. The moment I closed dinner by commenting that the dining area looks good, she was off to her room.
The point of this story is this: My wife will look at the fact she stayed until dinner and put the bread clip on the bread as "progress". My wife will ignore the fact that she didn't say a word throughout dinner pretty much ignoring everybody except SS-15 (remember, rejection of my family is one of the issues) and that she was pouting (23 years old!). Granted, staying until dinner is good and putting the bread clip on the bread is way more than she ever has done. But am I wrong to see putting the bread clip on as almost a hostile, "in -your-face" type of act??
I think you clearly
I think you clearly understand how dinner went. One incident is not a situation solved.
Stay resolute.
Thank you
Doing my best to be.
I can even understand how/why
I can even understand how/why she may not like my 16 year old daughter. Their personalities are different and my daughter can throw attitude as well. My son however, is easy going and good tempered but also a slob, and my 9 year old loves everybody but talks alot (In fact, my SS-15 and my kids all get along great. He even knows my relatives very well and he visits with them
For historical purposes, I will identify when things really started to get bad; When my daughter was 13 and SD was 20, my daughter tried SD's makeup that was in the bathroom. Apparently, my daughter ruined it. SD was furious. She told her mother that she felt disrespected because her property was taken without permission. Now I may have made things worse. I agreed that my daughter was wrong, but I didn't take it as serious as SD did (I grew up with 3 brothers and 2 sisters and the concept of private property was almost non-existent. True, I would get mad at my brothers when I couldn't find my stuff or when their incompetence ended up ruining my things, but I also was OK with it for the most part). I felt SD wanted a pound of flesh as compensation. Wife explained that SD wasn't used to this and needed time to get used to it. I told her I understood but also said, "it's just makeup".
Apparently, SD-23 still hasn't forgiven my daughter for it. And wife brings it up whenever we have disagreements about our "family". I admit I will defend my daughter by saying things like "she was 13 for God's sake!" And my wife will use that incident to justify SD's segregation from the rest of us.
It's been over 3 years since this happened. True, on occasions, SD-23 has been nice to my kids. But it's very rare and it's now gotten to the point where if she is nice, it kinda freaks out my kids a bit.
This story is a little background to one of many issues: Rejection of my family. The other main one: laziness and refusal to contribute or help out.
A marriage where a 15 year
A marriage where a 15 year old child sleeps in the marital bedroom is not going to go great. Time to get someone outside of your relationship who your wife will respect to explain to her that this is not normal, necessary or healthy for anyone. Try a religious leader, a therapist, a parent, a best friend...basically anyone as I could not imagine anyone being able to justify this.
Getting the 23 yr old to contriubte or leave the home should be a secondary consideration. Getting the boy out of your bedroom needs to happen asap. Once that is done then you can try to address the 23yr old with your wife.
"Getting the 23 yr old to
"Getting the 23 yr old to contriubte or leave the home should be a secondary consideration."
I feel like I am taking care of a 23-year old and it's sickening to me. Knowing that she's in her room playing games while everyone else is cleaning, cooking, shopping, etc, etc. gnaws at me like nothing else. I've moved beyond being accepting of "contributions" now. I want her to leave.
But if I move my girls into the same room and make them share so that SS15 can have his own room, then mom and SD23 stop feeling any sort of pressure to launch. Right now, the pressure coming from me AND the pressure coming from SS15 to get his own room are the only forces that has mom putting pressure on SD23. Once thats gone, SD-23 is nevering leaving the nest. I reallly believe this.