How do you deal with this? Gotta get this off my chest.
Can someone answer this question - DH fiance of 2 years - constantly lies to me - or shall i say tells "white lies" - gives some of the information but not all - when it comes to communication and obligations he has agreed to with his EW. I dont get it - relationships are supposed to be built on trust and honesty. Everything else about of lives is great except the EW. She constantly calls him at work, on teh cell phone (which I pay for). Very rarely calls the house unless SS is here - then she calls the SS 5-10 times per day. Just went through mediation and mediator recommended coparenting classes. That was 3rd week of May. My youngest graduated from HS on 6/1. DH went out of town this past sunday and gets home tomorrow night. In the mean time - he left an envelope on the mailbox addressed to his mother last sunday before I took him to the airport and he told me it was medical release forms for his son. Sounded fishy so when I got home, I openned it - he was mailing his mother the attorneys last bill because apparently he couldnt pay it. yes - we maintain separate funds - he is over $84k in debt from his marriage which ended in 2001 - but took over all the debt. Anyways, he didnt even talk to me about the money or how to pay it. Just sent it along. I was fried over it - didnt trust me enough to talk about it and figure out how to pay it. That's that.
So onto #2 - the day before he left - EW sends him an email about the coparenting therapist and info indicating cost is $175 per hour for 10 sessions and when "their" first apointments are. I just flipped - she has wanted him to go to counsleing with her since he left her - and no - he didnt leave her for me. We started dating 3 years after their separation. Anyways, we discussed it and agreed that if he went - I should go with on the first session. So he responded that we wanted me there for ALL sessions. So come Monday morning - I have to drop SS off at his EW house and dont hear anything from either one of them. Then come monday afternoon - get an email from the counselor sent to the EW with cc to me and the DH indicating I cannot be in the first session and will be brought into the second sessions. Then EW calls and leaves numerous phone messages and nasty grams on DH cell and work phone (that I am not supposed to know about because he hasnt told me - but I do). And at the same time EW has communication with the counselor acting like she is so cooperative and I just think this is just a load of bull!
I dont want to go to this counselor - #1 we cant afford it unless I pay for it - which I am not going to. #2 it should be a counselor we jointly pick and not one because she is the most expensive. Anyways, in talking with DH he indicated that he did not commit to anything.
So DH comes home tomorrow and as I have been researching co-parenting (found out classes are offered by variety of places including schools, adult ed, community service groups, etc.) was reading info that in some cases divorced parents will agree to go to coparenting class together as part of mediation. So I ask him when he calls tonight - if there was any agreement and he said no - only what was in the mediation report. I saw the original report and it said they could go individually. So he doesnt sound convincing so I am thinking he is hiding something. So sure enough, we received two letters in the mail from his attny today - I openned them - yes I felt ashamed but I had this nagging feeling. And low and behold - copies of what EW and DH agreed to at court. Guess what - he agreed to go the counselor EW identified and to pay half of all costs. NEWS TO ME!!! So he lied again. So then I go to his document drawer and start pulling out all his attorney stuff (he only put it in the drawer because he didnt have room in his brief case for his laptop) - and another BOOM! A transcipt like document indicating what EW and DH agreed to. He lied to me again....or white lied. I am having such issues with this. He comes home tomorrow - I dont know how to handle. I am like walking on a thread. Our issues have been EW calls him all the time at work over stupid non-emergecny stuff, she calls me names, and she is abrasive and puts SS in the middle. I dont know how to deal with this - I cant see paying $1750 for co-parenting at one place that follows the same principles as another place that is more affordable. ARe there options here? I dont know what to do - I;m thinking how hurtful lies are and I need to confront him tomorrow.
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I went through something similar...
He would tell me what verbal things they had agreed to, rather than what was actually in the court documents, which was very different. He also withheld a lot of pertinent information, which I consider lying by ommission. I didn't find out until AFTER we'd gotten married and by then it was too late for me to do anything about it. If I had found out BEFORE we'd gotten married, I don't know if I would've married him or not. I definitely would have waited until things were more stable. As much trouble as this has caused for us, he STILL to this day - and we've been married almost six years - will tell me what he thinks I want to hear rather than the truth to avoid an argument. Why don't men understand that the argument will be even worse if they don't just tell the whole truth up front?!
My advice, having been there, is the same advice I would give myself if I were going to do it again. Confront him now, before you marry him, and get it ALL out on the table. Lying is a relationship killer.
~ Anne ~
"Nobody can make you feel inferior without your permission."
-Eleanor Roosevelt
He Shouldn't Lie to You
White or whatever kind of lie. A lie is a lie. If he is going to lie about the little things he will lie about anything. You are supposed to be his Partner. Confront him now and let him know up front it will not be tolerated.
thanks
I have confronted him and he says he is committed to making an effort not to lie. But here we are a week later and it is the same. I do not want to go to this co-parenting counselor - but now looks like no choice. I am hanging on the fence whether to tell him I want a break from our relationship and cant figure out why I allow him to stay. We have known each other 7 years from being co-workers. We have been dating for 3 years once I left the company because I wouldnt date someone I worked with. Engaged for 2 - lived together for 2 1/2 - he moved into my home. It feels like my desire is stronger than his to work it out - otherwise his actions would show his commitment - thus not lying. I dont want to lose the relationship with his son (11) because I think he needs stability and consistency. know if we parted - EW would cut me off. DH was married to EW for 14 years so he has the lie habit with her - I know you dont get into relationships to change someone - but had I known 3 years ago what this would be like - I would have ran the other way. My youngest BD who is 18 doesnt respect him and feels he is weak. I feel confused and am angry - what are the normal range of emotions that people go through in this situation?
Just what you are going through....
Only it does taper out and get better. I went through the exact same thing as you and Anne. I sat down with DH and he promised to try with the lies. The thing is with these men, they are typically a more sensitive type man (which I love about DH) but at the same time "weak" when dealing with anything confrentational. My DH would rather lie about communications with the ex-wife (ARGHHHH) then tell me the truth because he knows I hate when they talk. No, what I hate is when he lies about it!!!!! Finally over time he's realized that. Lies are the worst for me as I feel marriage is based on trust and these lies cause that trust to be broken. Give it a little time. I felt like you when we first got married...went from MAD to SAD to CRAZY CRYING! Those were my stages. We ended up in counseling after only a few months of marriage and it really set the tone. I've never felt as bad as in the beginning and I can promise you after only 1 year things will be a lot different - BETTER! Hang in there
hmm
I dont think it is about that - I think it is the perception of emotional intimacy that is shown between the DH and the EW that makes it uncomfortable. The perception is the DH is putting the EW emotional needs above the NW needs. If he hides conversations than it can be interpretted that there is going on more than what meets the eye. Even ifyou think you are the most confident person - if he is hiding communications with her and other things, it affects the relationshp all the way around. He shouldnt care whether she broke a damn fingernail. Just doesnt need to call him. The EW is just that - an EX and there is no room for emotional intimacy - especially when they are non-cooperative and alienate your new spouse. It has to be inclusive all the way or not at all.
You are so right
Sacto, you have pinpointed something for me that I could't put my finger on. (Blink, on goes the light!) While I don't reallly have any phone issues, I do understand the perception that there is emotional intimacy between dh and bm that I don't like. I think the whole shared history thing has something to do with that for me. There are some situations that are just uncomfortable.
Georgie
Carrots.
Nobody loves the carrots.
Eeyore.
LMAO.
You know what I'd do...
I'd take all that paperwork, lay it out on the table, floor, where ever, piece by piece, and sit and wait for DH to come home... than smile at him and say...
"Dear, why do you lie to me?" Nothing more, nothing less. The paperwork all on the table will tell it all that you know the truth and he can not lie to you. But at the same time, you can not get mad at him, otherwise, he will turn it against you, be resentful, feel like you violated his privacy. Instead, you have to stay calm about it, even if he gets upset about it, just let him ramble on, stay silent, and just ignore it, but stay literally calm and collective and be absolutely simple about it. There is no excuse he can make, because the paperwork is black and white.
After he's done exploding, because he will see is as a clear violation of his privacy, you have to tell him that "you are a married couple, and I don't know what your definition of marriage is, but in mine, spouses don't right out lie to each other in this manner." And walk away... let him sit and stew on it. The guilt will get to him soon enough and he will sure to try to back peddle, just don't accept any excuses and keep pointing to the paperwork... it's black and white, and it doesn't lie.
Man has the intelligence to change his life,
Sometimes, he just fails to use it...
That is Exactly What I would do
I totally agree with Stepmom. I would literally lay everything out on the table.
Liars
I like what StepMom had to say and have done that before with EH ... DH and I based our relationship on honesty, so I don't tollerate even little white lies.
Take it from someone who knows all too well what a liar is all about. My EX of 7 years, together for 11 was a compuslive liar. He lied even when he didn't have to, saying he was sick and couldn't do something when he really just didn't want to go or we had something else going on. He lied to me from day one, and I kept forgiving, kept forgiving, and on and on and on. Finally he started lying about money. He didn't have a job, would tell his mom he needed money, and would go out and spend it on frivilous things we didn't need.
I can't tell you how many times I'd say "one more time and I'm gone" both out loud and to myself. I finally had to ask myself when is enough enough? I ended up leaving him primarily because of his lying ...
Now that DH knows all about EH's lies ... he asks ... why did you even marry him? You knew what a liar he was from the beginning ... and the honest answer is "I don't know." I shoudln't have married him, not just because we ended up divorced, but because he was such a liar.
It sounds to me like you have him with one foot out the door. I'm sure you love SS and it would be hard on him, but he's old enough you could always tell him, "even though I'm not living with your dad anymore, I'm still here for you ... anytime you need me, just call."
As funny as this sounds you need to sit down and do a pros/cons list and see if BF is worth keeping around. It sounds like you are already second guessing your relationship ... and, like I said ... once a liar, always a liar.
Good luck and TAKE CARE OF YOU!!!
~ Katrina
I understand where CplStv is coming from...
NCP should have rights too!
Most men do feel that they are damned if they do, damned if they dont.That is the most common reason they lie. They are looking for a way to keep the peace all the way around. I also understand the way each of us as woman percieve the lying. Not only is there a sense of emotional connection between the ex and husband because of hidden calls, but there is the feeling of disconnection with husband emotionally when its hidden from us. I would do as Stepmom advised, by laying everything out for him to see, but dont leave it at the question of Why? Let him know that you are not his ex, you have no idea how she made him feel,( and continues to make him feel) that lying was/is the only way to get around things, but you are his wife now and as his wife you WANT to help in the area's that he feels a need to lie about...Ask him if likes carrying all the stress from the mounting lies that he has to keep up with? Wouldnt it be a relief to have someone to discuss things with, get objective opinions from, who not only loves him, but desires the very best for him? Most importantly let him know that 75% of what he has lied to you about could have been resolved and a burden off of him if he had come to you with the truth but in lying to you he compounds the problem, not only are you having to deal with the hidden issues( which will ALWAYS come around and bite you in the ass) but your having to deal with the lying which is even more harmful to your's and his marraige.I would let him know point blank that he will never lose you by telling you the truth no matter how painful, but he will lose you by lying, because how can you even trust the love he says he has for you, especially if he wont trust the love you have for him?
If the second wife doesnt want to know...
NCP should have rights too!
Then keep it that way, and it should'nt be percieved as lying( as you stated, you are accommodating her wishes) HOWEVER, AND THIS IS ABIG HOWEVER, when the second wife WANT'S to know and be kept abreast of issues concerning the second family's emotional and financial well being and those issues happen to concern the bm and demand's or constant call's ect. that the bm is making, then to omit certain aspects or details or the whole subject itself is in and of itself a lie. I truly understand the prediciment that men feel that they are placed, between the ex and the new wife,(esp. when ex uses chil/children as pawns to get her demands met) but lets face it, you men (as well as some of us women) have chosen to move on in life with new partners and in doing so, the person you are with now is desearving of being placed first and in placing them first, to lie to them,(even by omission) is showing actions that just do not meet your words. This is very discomforting to us as we do know the past you and bm share and it causes EVERY woman to some degree to have our own insecurities about ourselves and our relationships with our dh/bf to weld its ugly head. The very best that any of us can give to each other is the truth always, because the act of being honest no matter what helps in forming a closer union between husband and wife, when both are agreed to work together to solve any issue that arises.
Oh I Would be Pissed
If DH agrees to things that financial affect us both. I want to know what is coming out of my own pocket.
Depends on Relationship
I still speak to my Ex, but maybe once a month - not every day. Of course after spending so many years together there are gong to be things you want to share, or information to give (if you are friendly), but every day or several times per day is excessive no matter who it is ... I would say once per month is reasonable ... but still it shouldn't be "just to say hi" ... there should be a purpose behind the phone call.
~ Katrina
Interesting
From the conversations that I have overheard - you can clearly hear her voice and she is nevery happy unless she thinks she is getting something she wants from fiance. She is always angy, bellasting, berating, emotional over non-events - always accustatory - then she brings it down to making statements - its your fault I have to work - you promised when you left you would take care of me - I am too stressed to work so you need to give me more money....you need to move by me so son can be by both of us because its too far to drive - you are terrible father because son is getting C's in school - tell your bitch to shut up and this is none of her business - is that bitch listening - wheres the bitch at - that kind of stuff. So NO - I dont think he needs to have conversations with her - especially when she gets to calling me names - that should end it but he doesnt even say anything in my defense - and interestingly enough - I have never spoken to the woman. So my bottom line - he shouldnt take any phone calls unless it is to discuss his son - not to be her sounding board and allow her to undermine our relationship.
You know the interesting thing...
Is that in the very beginning, I admit that I got a little on guard with this very topic too. I think it was the fact that our relationship was still so new, back than, and I needed that reassurance. So, I did get a little worried, upset, what have you if DH and BM had a conversation... but manly if DH didn't reiterate any plans with me, that involved me too, you know.
But, I did realize that I needed to back off for my own sake... that if I didn't just let it go, not get up in arms about it, that it would eat me up, because I wasn't putting my trust in my DH as I should. And my DH would eventually hide things from me... just the opposite of what I wanted to happen.
Plus, my DH doesn't want to talk excessively with his exs... in fact, he talks as little as possible with them. I do remember that BM2 really tried to be friend him, rattle off her life to him and he'd just roll his eyes, but after about a few minutes of her relaying her latest life crisis with him, he'd interrupt and get off the phone with her. The only reason he stayed on the phone was because he was trying to be polite, has no interest in her, and rather stay on her good side than start something ugly with her too... and I soon realized that I had nothing to fear.
So, to me, I feel I'm lucky in this.
Man has the intelligence to change his life,
Sometimes, he just fails to use it...