I really can't cast stones at anybody. I know how I have been treated by the ex. I know that some people have been treated worse than I have. So, it would be/is hard to even consider being a friend with the ex. Not to mention it is a two way street. How can you be friends with someone who is very mean, hateful and just basically wouldn't want to be your friend anyway.
I can speak for myself when I say that I didn't instantly not like the ex just because. She has earned that by her actions and words. After awhile of getting kicked in the gut you kind of start to get tired of it and either fight back or don't want anything to do with that person.
I don't think it's insecurity. I think it is frustration and just an overall feeling of being fed up.

That's my opinion.

Dawn

You shouldn't be bashed for saying that! I think you've made some very insightful observations and comments...and should be applauded!

There's always at least two sides to every story...and it's refreshing and enlightening to see things from a different perspective.

Many of the feelings and insecurities we all feel are perfectly normal and that's why we're here to help sort them out.

We have one x we don't speak too...and one who we can actually sit and joke around with....so I see both sides...and see where your coming from. Much better for the kids to have parents who can be civil.... But you have to have parents that are 'sane & reasonable' and willing to co-operate and try to be cordial for the kids sake. NO question!! (Even if I think he's an ASSHOLE and I'M pissed at him at that point in time....I will be civil for the kids sake)

I think we're more OPEN about our negative feelings & insecurities on this site...sometimes they are just passing feelings and not a permenant state of mind but because we speak of them more often..they seem to be a greater part of who we are....

I don't think you should be bashed.....it postings like yours that make me think and re-evaluate things. Could I get along with X for the sake of SD's? I'm going to have to sit at the same table and share a meal with her..this summer...and I do really dread the discomfort of being around her..it would be easier if we could reach some level of comfort with each other before hand. Declare an official truce or something.... but hubby has a harder time with being under the same roof with her than I do....HE's been through alot....still carrys the scars.......

Food for thought......though.

That your parents have that type of relationship and that your mom is big enough to be nice to your father's wife. In my case, it is much, much different. I'm not insecure or jealous of my husband's ex-wife - I have absolutely no reason to be. I know how much my husband loves me and I AM secure in that. However, once he and I began dating and I realized he was "the one" and that I would be in his life forever, even after I had been around the ex and she treated me like I wasn't even standing there, I made an attempt to talk to her and let her know that I wanted to have a civil relationship with her for the sake of the kids. She fired back at me and flat out told me she would have nothing to do with me in regards to her children, she would only deal with their father (my husband). So, she shut me out right from the start. If she ever came back to me and made an attempt to start over, I would accept that. I would much rather have a nice, civil relationship than drama all the time, wouldn't anyone? So, I think I am very justified in feeling the way I do about the woman my husband used to be married to and I do not have to tolerate her crap. As for the children, I can't help how their mom wants to be and hopefully, they're intuitive to know that she is the one who has the problems with me, not the other way around. It's her fault that the children see the negativity, not mine.

I agree with Dawn. When I met my DH and we started dating he told me that he and the BM were good friends, had grown up over the two years after they had split and they didn't have all the craziness....that we now have. I went into it thinking very positively. I met the BM, was very kind to her and when I saw her at SD's functions would always go over and say hi and try to do minor chit chat. When she started calling my DH and making false accusations about me, I didn't get upset, but merely took it as her insecurity of me stepping into her dauter's life. I tried to talk with her, and I finally sent her an email after no response, asking her if she'd like to meet one-on-one to discuss any of her concerns and get to know each other so we could get along for SD and DH. I told her I wasn't, wouldn't and didn't want to come off like I was taking her place as mother and expressed that I had the same concerns when my XH started dating another woman and got engaged. I told her it was up to her and I would meet when she was comfortable. I got a response telling me that she would not deal with me....ever...and would only deal with the father regarding THEIR daughter together. From there, she has continued to make allegations against me to my DH, even saying that I'm abusing SD. She continues to talk bad about me to SD and every time I pick up SD I cringe because I know she's going to tell me something her mother said about me.....all of which are never nice. As this woman continues to create havoc for my family that I'm working so hard to blend together, I am getting upset. My feelings of anger, dissapointment, regret, sadness, etc grow. This website allows me to vent and channel those frustrations so they are less with my family and probably save me from calling the awful BM and telling her off.

Yes, I would love it if we never had to deal with the BM again, but realistically, I know that will never happen. We can dream can't we It's just very hard to always be the bigger person when someone, namely the BM, is causing you and your family pain over and over again, whenever she can, wherever she can and however she can. I'm tired of crying over this woman that just seems to get pleaure out of hurting us. I'm tired of seeing my daughters cry because they are confused, frustrated and sometimes get stuck in the middle. I'm tired of seeing my DH age quickly just after one 10 minute conversation with this woman verbally abusing him over the phone and him trying to keep peace.

I still have hopes that...ONE DAY....we can all be friends, and that she'll at least respect me and my family. I'm very secure with my marriage and with my parenting. I just feel for my daughters and how this is all affecting how they are growing up.

I can see what you are saying totally. I think though on the point all kids yes would like there parents to get along.. I really do I know in my own little senerio with my husbands ex a huge part of the reason I disliked her was because of my own insecurities. But it took a lot for me to look within myself and point the blame at myself. I mean it took a lot. Noone wants to admit when they are wrong.
But in some of the cases here, the ex's are just to controlling and are not in the right frame of mind to recognize that the other woman in there childrens life is not replacing them just an added bonus feature to there lives. And in those cases I can honestly say I would have to be down right ugly until I won the battle. I have been there and done that.. And until I put my foot down and said I am not taking this anymore and stood up for me and my ex and his son and our family unit we had created only then did the bull shit stop and we joined in on raising the son.
Petty some of it yes. But you have to look at it like I do I was petty too about things. And although me and the ex wife get along now and things are fine there I still get miffed at things. Especially the money part of things. She gets her support and still sends a bill for straightners and curling irons and stuff that child support should take care of. SO in that aspect some may think that is petty but then I think well what is support for.
Especially when SD will wear only Hollister and Abercrombie and Aero clothing. What is the point. You need more money on top but all they do is shop. I mean the line has to be drawn in the sand somewhere. The ex for example my SS got himself into some trouble with the law and he is 21 and locked up in a detention place for 5 months. She called and talked to me and then said to my husband well how much are you going to pay for and how much money are you going to give him? Well giving him money to eat out of a vending machine because he does not like the food they give you there is I am sorry part of your punishment. He screwed up and in my opinion if everyone sends him money and pays for his things how is he going to learn? He won't he will keep messing up because everyone is always there to bail him out. My husband did put his foot down to her on that. So anyways.. That is where we are at. I like her and will get along with her, we laugh and stuff but I will not let her take advantage of the monitary situation because she chooses to be single and stuff and my husband has moved on and has my income I refuse to support her.. and her expenses. If there daughter NEEDS something ok but she has more clothes then she can wear and its always a HAVE TO HAVE thing with her. So that I am against too. My kids get what they need and when I have extra they get a little extra but I do not buy them everything they want just because. OOH...
I agree with you on most of what you said and I am sure others will too. But also too each of us are in unique situations. Look at Caitlyn's blogs.. Her ex bio is the extreme case of mental illness woman. Who in my opinion I would have a hard time seeing good in her.
And Caitlyn has really given it her every effort to be nice to this woman and genuinally loves the daughter...
So her case is different..
LOL have a great day..
Happy

I am not going to bash you, for sure, but I am going to disagree with a major part of the idea you've presented. I do agree that people should be civil/friendly for the kids' sake. I am always pleasant to BM and make a point of supporting her when it comes to the kids and even saying to them "I was talking to your mom and she said _____" so that they know we have a relationship and thus that they feel safe and connected. But I think there is a world of difference between that and the idea that it is petty to feel insecure about the former relationship between DH and BM. I do feel insecure, but I don't think it is petty or wrong. I strongly believe it is inappropriate for either of them to reference intimacies/events that occurred during their marriage, or to otherwise claim the privilege of intimacy with the other. That privilege has been forfeited, and belongs to me and to her new husband exclusively, and to her and her new husband exclusively. I do not define intimacy as only physical intimacy, but also emotional intimacy. Is that jealousy? Yes. Is there anything wrong with it? I do not think so. There is nothing wrong with being jealous when someone betrays your trust. DH and I promised to have a special connection with each other, and I for one think that marriage means that connection is exclusive, and for him to act otherwise is a betrayal of trust. I think there is a huge difference between (1) accepting some sort of emotional relationship between DH and BM that is based on anything other than the kids, and (2) allowing that in 20 years *I* might have developed some sort of independent relationship with BM. I can accept 2 but not 1. And I do not think the kids suffer one bit for it, frankly. I am fortunate that after 4 years of my relationship with DH, all four of us (DH, me, BM and her new husband) have pretty much reached a mutual understanding on these issues. But the issue speaks deeply to me because I still struggle emotionally with even the fact that DH and BM had all of the "firsts" together and b/c of the children have bonds that I can never have with DH. By agreeing to marry him, I agreed to accept this reality and this loss in my own life, but it still hurts, and it takes a lot of strength to constantly adjust my feelings to deal with the ex in a civil and friendly manner, in the best interests of the kids (which I constantly do). To soothe that hurt and help succor that strength is one of the big reasons why I look to the folks on this site for understanding and support. This is true even though the ex is not bad or evil. Just my humble opinion!

well i think that there are certainly blended families out there who get along and have thriving relationships with each other....but i think those people are on sites like "BonusFamilies". notice the slogan for this site....where stepparents come to vent. my dh and i spent the first year of our marriage trying to have that wonderful friendly relationship with BM. she took complete advantage of us and used us for everything she could. she saw it as us being vulnerable, us doing what we could to make our new lives as steps easier. she treated us like doormats and wiped her crap on us every chance she got. i regret ever attempting that kind of relationship with her, we should have been more careful to set firm boundaries instead. and i'm sorry for those i will offend by saying this....but i do hate the gifts she sends. she has caused so much hell for us and their kids, that aside from the children, i don't want anything she has even touched in our home. it is sad, but often times the step parents have a much clearer view of what is best for the kids than the bio's. again, i am only speaking my opinion and feelings.

Thought I'd pipe in here and say that in my case, I put aside all those adult feelings of ill will toward nutcase BM (AND OH BOY DO I HAVE THEM!) and put a smile on my face for SD, even though my gut is churning in BM's presence.

When SD whispered in my ear to compliment her mom's shirt, I smiled and said "hey L, I like your shirt, where'd you get it?" I didn't even get a reply. Um, can she not hear me speak? When SD asked me to make her a photo album with both her families in it, I contacted BM for pictures, who then flat-out refused to provide any and said I was wrong for even making such an album. When SD asked if we could all have lunch together the day she graduated from elementary school, I was there making conversation, reminiscing about SD's past, smiling away while BM was throwing back the red wine and being surly because she didn't want me there. When SD put a huge portrait of BM in her room for me to have to see every day, it makes me nausesous. But I don't think that's out of insecurity in my case. We're just dealing with a lot of crap from her and I don't want to have to be reminded all the time!

Then, on the odd occasion when BM does something "nice" I am sure to thank her profusely in front of SD - like last Christmas when she got our baby a present, I put on a happy face and played with that damn thing with the girls till the cows came home and I made a big deal to SD about how nice it was of her mom to think of her baby sister on Christmas. Yes, I wanted to burn the thing. Yes, I thought it was inappropriate for it to be from BM rather than SD, given that BM wished death upon our baby when we announced we were having one. But there was never any question of whether or not we would keep it. Because that would have hurt SD's feelings.

Even when BM refuses to play along, I just keep on trying in the hopes that she will some day come around because she will see that she is only hurting her daughter. It is in the child's best interest for ALL parents to communicate. BM doesn't see it that way, but hopefully she will realize that one day before it's too late.

I will come here to vent my frustrations and fears and seek advice on how to deal, but I will leave my ill will right here, where SD can't see it. I can't say that I see "good" in BM, but what I do see is a sick woman terrified of losing her daughter, so I guess that would make just about anyone do crazy things. I really do try to see her side of things so I can understand better and let go of my anger and resentment toward her.

I'm rambling. My focus lately has been pretty shot! My point is just that I wish adults could keep adult issues separate from the kids so they won't have to suffer even more than they already do. It won't kill you, I promise!

I attempted to have a civil, even friendly relationship with my BF's X, but her mood swings and out and out efforts to make it more difficult for us turned me off that! Every time we would go to pick up SD or drop her off, the BM would be in a mood - b*tchy, sad, angry, aloof, etc, etc, etc. And the bad part was it had nothing to do with us; the BM would be a having a bad day, or bad hour for that matter, and would take it out on us for no reason.

Then we tried to make arrangements for a more equitable dropping off point and she went ballistic on us in front of SD. The next day she called my BF apologizing saying she was having a bad day and didn't mean to yell at us. This is the kind of behavior my poor BF had to deal with through their entire marriage, always taking the brunt of her bad moods when he had done nothing. After all that I had had enough. I told my BF I was done with her. All dealing with her did was get me upset. Now I sit in the car and let my BF deal with the BM and get/pass on any info dealing with SD. This "stepping back" has made it so much easier for me and less stressful. I'm sorry my BF still has to deal with this woman, but unfortunately he had the poor judgement to marry the crazy b*tch.

Could be worse...you could be her child..and have to be on the recieving end of 'moods' with no recourse, or ability to 'step-back' AND be stuck in the middle of world war three between the adults...to boot!!

I'm not picking on you...by the way...I'm just using your situation as an example. What if we put ourselves in the kids shoes....

Do we all want our actions to be 'justified'.....or to be right?
OR do we truely want 'whats best for the kids' or to be 'happy' oursleves? (many cases there is no doubt justification for feeling/acting the way we do)

I'm (hubby too) guilty of it too....the stress that youngest is under because of the animosity between her parents...on what should be the 'happiest day of her life'.
Why should the actions of her parents...be her cross to bear? Regardless of 'whose responsible' for it. Aren't we all responsible for our own contribution to it?

I'm saying the words....because I think that's the proper approach to resolving it...everyone says that forgiveness will set you free... but can I do it myself. Probably not! It's not easy! I'm not there in my head or heart...... I'm human! I feel what I feel....but I think its something to strive for..or at least don't loose sight of....

My x and I get along great. We talk about kids when we switch custody, or maybe one other time a week if kids are sick or something--but that is not the case with my BF's X.

She has pretended like she wanted to be friends of and on--but it always ends up with her doing/saying something--cussing me out, BF out, accusing me of having affairs behind BF's back etc. Or threatening to take us to court....

So after a while "civil" became all I could be. I mostly avoid the situation with her--period.

I do agree that it's good for there to be some civil contact between parents--however if the parents don't get along, or argue--Do you think that's positive for the kids?

That would be my only disagreement with it. IMO if you can't get along it's better to limit contact to only those matters that directly affect the kids. I don't think it's healthy for the parents to communicate more then that unless they are able to get along

Plus we are the one's(BF and I) who got the 40+ calls in 20 days the last billing period for our cell bill.

I do see your point and I'm also from a divorced family--my parents are not close--but they are able to communicate now where they once could not.

Alisha

Firstly, I wouldn't want to be hanging out with my soon to be husband & another guy I slept with in the past. I just think that's wierd & don't think guys don't think about that when they are in those situations. Secondly, I hear "putting the kids first" so much, and I do think it sounds nice, but honestly, I feel like if exes want to be so friendly to the point like they are old friends, why didn't they/don't they "put the kids first" and just stay together. As much as it sounds outdated, I really believe truly "putting the kids first" means staying together even if you don't want to be together anymore. Some situations can be very unhealthy, like the constant bickering and explosive arguements that happen when couples are unhappy, but if the parents truly "put the kids first", then they will have to figure out a way to keep that away from the kids. I mean, as stepparents, that's what's expected of us to do. Or if someone isn't in love anymore, "putting the kids first" means staying in the marriage and making it work anyway, for the kids' sakes. I just don't get how people who break up and then find "the love of their lives" or their "soulmates" can turn around and constantly talk about how they need to "put the kids first", and expect the new stepmom or girlfriend to put up with BS or overly-close, or what someone previously called "emotionaly intimate" behavior between the man and the ex. I mean, speaking from an honest place and not trying to sound insensitive here, but I feel like: the kids were not "put first" when either party decided to end the relationship, so why am I, someone who isn't even their parent, always expected to put up with certain behavior in order to "put the kids first"? The kids haven't been "first" since the relationship ended! If you really want to TRULY put them first, get back with the ex and stick it out until they are grown. Sacrifice your own happiness for their sake. But don't try to find your own happiness and drag the new person into anguish and negativity and confusion in the process. Unfortunately, when parents break up the people who lose out most are the kids, and starting a new relationship and trying to be buddy-buddy with the ex isn't going to make the kids feel better, cuz you still won't be with their mom, and it's going to mess up your new relationship as well because she'll be pissed off, so no one will be happy on either side. And the man who is trying to play the middle will be stressed out too. *whew* just venting guys, sorry!
Oh, and I don't think it's a matter of being insecure or jealous really, I think it's a matter of feeling like the DH/BF needs to s@!t or get off the pot!

My parents 'stayed together for the sake of the kids' until they reached 40+ years of misery...then split...not a very good environment to grow up in..either I'd like to mention...so I don't believe in that...(because of my own experiences living in a tension filled household.)

And there are people that are 'toxic' people, period! Regardless of whether your still married to them or have divorced them...in some situations I believe the 'best outcome' is to stay the hell away from each other..

BUT I don't believe in 'being buddies' either....usually its uncomfortable for almost everyone or at least someone, except the kids.

I compare a good 'X relationship' to a 'working relationship'at a place of business. We all have co-workers or bosses or customers that we think are assholes, or idiots or bitches for whatever reason(s) justified or not..we just DO NOT LIKE or wish to be in the company of.....BUT we have to work out a way to 'get along' and reach a common goal in the workplace...sometimes co-workers who don't get along can even share a laugh once in a while.....

Aside from when we 'have to' be together....we do not want to be together with our X's...would prefer not to around them (vise versa) but when it is unavoidable...I wish it wasn't such a 'gut wrenching' and 'horrible' experience as it is in the case of hubby's X and all associated with her!

PS
...I just imagine that those feelings are magnified 100X for kids stuck, in those situations...where something that is supposed to be a normal enjoyable part of life for them...like a santa cottage, or concert or a sporting event or a wedding or Christening, (in my case) becomes this huge stress filled, gut wrneching, dreadful experience for them because God knows what's going to be said or done at any given moment!

How far should we go to minimize that? The marriage is over..don't give any false hope that you are still a married couple by your actions....there are boundaries. But...if at all possible be cordial & civil to each other for the sake of the kids....who knows maybe 20 years down the road..things will get better.

PS

I just re-read that...I was thinking more along the lines of me & my eX when I wrote it. I think that is how it should work....that's what I strive for......but.......
HA!! I can't do it with his X!!! ...she's nuts!!! I would be second guessing her every action looking for her true motivation....because you better believe she has one!!

I wish it wasn't that way.....but it is!!!

I've given this a lot of thought (the whole insecurity issue) and I can honestly say that while I am insecure about some things, the relationship between me and my husband and/or his relationship with her and the kids isn't something that I feel insecure about.

I feel really insecure that I've gained some weight that just won't come off after the last baby. I feel insecure that at 36 I am more than 50% gray and already having hot flashes and night sweats... feels a lot like getting old to me! I feel a little insecure about our financial situation sometimes, because even though it has improved a lot since we first got married, we still struggle with hills and valleys. I feel insecure about our housing situation, because we had to rent when we first moved up here and we're looking at buying in the summer, but for now it's up in the air. I am insecure about several things, but I honestly don't think insecurity is the reason why we can't be country club buddies with our ex-spouse's and their new husband/wife.

For one thing, we live about fourteen hours away from where my ex and his new family live and I haven't seen him since the day he locked my pregnant self out of the house and filed for divorce. (He wasn't ready to commit. Too bad he decided that AFTER we got married and pregnant.) But there are no residual feelings on my part to prevent it and I could be friendly and sociable with him and her because I just don't care anymore. He did give up his parental rights, though, and my husband adopted my son, so there's really no reason to be friendly with him. I don't think my husband would care, either, although he does get disgusted when he thinks of my ex giving up our son. But there's no insecurity about my previous marriage. He knows I don't carry a torch for my ex-husband.

My husband's ex, her new husband and the kids live about sixteen hours away from us, so it's not feasible to have any doings with them, either. Before I married my husband, though, I was very excited to have new skids and I really wanted to have a good, working relationship with their mother, too. I tried hard and was shot down fast. She just didn't want to have anything to do with me and she didn't want her kids around me, either. It didn't help that we hit it off and loved each other easily, because their enthusiasm really hardened her towards me in those early months. I guess she felt threatened. I can certainly understand that. I had a better relationship with her kids in the first couple of years than she did, not that I was trying to out-do her or anything, I was just new and shiny and fun to them. I can see why that would be hard for her.

I never saw us taking vacations together with his ex, but I did hope that we would have friendly conversations about what was going on with the kids, maybe even sit together at school functions, go to doctor's appointments together, have shared birthday parties, etc. I mean, she treated my husband like shit during their marriage, but that was in the past. We were happy, in love, newly married and feeling very generous and forgiving... we would have welcomed it back then. Unfortunately, she was in a bad place with her new marriage and wanting DH to bail her out, he was always her old stand-by, but he married me and was not interested in bailing her out. She remarried the same year we did and I think if we'd all had that happy, blissful newlywed stage together, we might have been able to make that good relationship happen between the four of us, but her new marriage tanked and ours didn't and it didn't put her in the best frame of mind to be friendly with us. She was jealous and embarrassed.

In a perfect world, we would all forget the past and get along. I would really love it if it could be that way and when we first got married, I attempted to mediate between my husband and his ex-wife, trying to get them both to let it go so that we could all get along, but they just can't do it. My husband holds grudges, so does she. It isn't my insecurity that prevents a friendship, it's their holding grudges against each other that prevents it. I don't think it's even that they hate each other, anymore, it's just that they divorced because they didn't want to be together. If you divorce because you don't want to be with the other person, then why on earth would you want to socialize with them once the divorce is final?

Maybe someday when the kids are all grown up and have flown the nest, we'll be able to chat amicably at weddings, christenings, etc., but I know it will never be more than casual, civil chit chat and even that is a stretch. I think all of us being in the same room and avoiding each other entirely would be all we could really hope for. If we can all be together in any room other than a court room, no one is raising their voices and the police aren't summoned, I'd consider that a success!

~ Anne ~