Back in Court Any Advice?
So about a year and a half ago, DH had the means to win full custody of SS8 and SS11. BM was severely alienating the children, their school, pediatrician etc. She would keep the children when it wasn't her time, show up to our home and force her way in, punching me and DH, screaming in front of all the children, we have videos of the boys crying about her erratic behavior, and she had one of her fits in the presence of the family therapist and her staff. The lawyers talked us into negotiating because giving BM one last chance to make things right would be win for everyone...if successful, BM wouldn't lose the boys, and the boys wouldn't lose their mom...we renegotiated time so it'd be a true 50/50 arrangement and she couldn't continue to alienate DH from school/healthcare providers etc. If she didn't change, we had the right to bring her back, and we were allowed to use all evidence compiled up to that point.
So here we are, 18 months later, and now SHE's suing him for full custody. The court ordered the boys to continue with a therapist, which BM HATES b/c said therapist agreed boys would be better off with us. So she told the therapist she'd never be bringing them back. Consequently, DH has been bringing them, and emailing her about the appts. She's claiming he's making medical appts without her knowledge and consent. They had a forensic evaluation done, and BM had boys for 2 weeks straight, convinced the psychologist doing the report of her story, and the psychologist basically sided with her. Said DH's personality evaluation was inconclusive because "no one is this nice." The psychologist never contacted the family therapist, or school personnel to corroborate BM's line of garbage story. Our lawyer can't wait to rip this report apart. She even diagnosed one of our SS with spectrum disorder, which is illegal in our state. An evaluation cannot be used to determine this. The only reason this came up was because BM brought SS to a behavioral therapist, and they diagnosed him solely on what she told them. He was never given a formal evaluation. His current therapist sits on a board to diagnose this disorder, and she said she just doesn't see it in him. He's pretty much acting out of a messed up environment. Were we to provide him stability and consistent boundaries, he would be fine.
So, when the lawyers were up to negotiation again, and BM was asked to negotiate, she refused, and wants to go straight to trial. So trial is now set in 3 months...which is basically going to run us 10K more. We did not intend to return to court, just keep the kids in therapy, because so long as the kids weren't in immediate danger, we figure there's no way the judge would place them in either home full time. I emailed our lawyer and told him if we're spending this kind of money, is there any chance judge will rule in favor of us, rather than keeping things exactly the way they are? I also asked if there's any way to convince her court is not a fun way to spend an extra tax return (the only explanation as to how she thinks she has the funds for something like this)...
He replied he thinks we can prove she's crazy. I'm not really sure what to take from that. Any thoughts?
Maybe he can convince BM that
Maybe he can convince BM that if she goes back to court, your DH will use all the evidence he has (including her REFUSAL to take the skids to counselor) to counter-file for full custody and child support.
I read some advice a divorce
I read some advice a divorce forum once. It basically said ask for a whole lot more than what you want, that way you'll probably end up with what you wanted in the first place.
If I were you, I would counter sue for full custody, (providing that is something you want). Even if you don't think you have a good enough case, it might be enough to scare BM off.
Also, you should be able to have your attorney put something in there that from now on, if the parties bring a case to trial, then the losing party has to pay the other party's legal fees. That will discourage BM from taking you to court all the time.
Thanks for the advice. I
Thanks for the advice. I emailed the therapist and requested her notes regarding the missed appointments on BM's part. As far as BM paying our legal fees, it'll never happen. She can't hold any kind of job longer than 3 months. That wording is in all of our documentation, but at best it's a weak bluff.
Yeah, the possibility of you
Yeah, the possibility of you collecting may never happen, but it may be enough to make her think twice at least before taking you to court in the future.
Good luck.
Hindsight is always 20/20
Hindsight is always 20/20 right? At least maybe someone else can learn from our mistake..our very expensive mistake.
I'm thinking we ask for a
I'm thinking we ask for a contingency. If the Judge changes nothing, she needs to pay our legal fees, or even a portion on them for wasting our time and money. If the judge changes custody (something I seriously doubt will happen, because custody has already been established, and unless "proving her crazy" makes her an unfit parent, despite the fact that the kids are doing much better when she minds her Ps and Qs, he won't change a thing) DH will file CS from her, so there won't be a need to file for more, mostly because we'd never get it, and it'd just cost us more money to file anyway. But if NOTHING changes, I think it fair to request she pay our legal fees.
I'm having a REALLY bad
I'm having a REALLY bad feeling about all this. Not that we'll lose custody, but that the judge isn't going to change a thing and keep it 50/50. All of our documentation, while still usable is over a year old. She's deliberately behaved herself, and that's going to really help her case. We have this 3 inch binder, overflowing with documents, videos, audios, timeline of events etc showing how bad her alienation got. We affectionately call it "The bible".
I think she's still doing it, she's just being more careful to make sure the boys are terrified to tell anyone what she says to them. DH can't hug his SS8 good night without getting a weird look from him (BM accused DH of touching them inappropriately) and while it could just be that he's getting older, she's certainly planted the paranoia that she's still saying awful shit to them.
Basically, we go to trial, use all this documentation, and the judge sees that she's now behaving, he's going to say "I'm not changing anything" only this time, we lose our bible. It represents countless hours of work organizing and pulling things together. We're still documenting, but the current things we have a flimsy at best. She forgot to pick up SS11 from school, and called us 15 minutes after the fact to go get him, while he waited for her outside the entire time in the pouring rain. She also signed up SS11 to join SS8 in gymnastics 2 months ago, and never informed DH about it...not that DH would have said no. BM is insisting on paying for it (probably to establish a need for child support, when since the divorce she quit her job expecting DH to support her forever, despite the fact that she's remarried with another child).
Family therapist believes she possibly has borderline personality disorder, and other problems mixed in there too. But with the stupid forensic evaluator who's $1700 report is about to be thrown in the garbage saying there's nothing wrong with her, it's going to be difficult to get her assessed.
I think basically what will happen is the judge will say "Well, you're getting along now, so keep up the good work. Anything changes come back and see me." And after we spend $13000 more for nothing, except losing hundreds of pages of documented crazy, we'll have to spend thousands more to go through this again, and document again.
There's no way the boys are going to go into their teenage years and be able to live with her. Pretty much, it's a guarantee that they'll want to not live with her anymore. When she was a teenager, she used to get into fist fights with her mother. SS11 is very similar to her personality wise, and I see a whole lot of volatility bubbling in both boys...mixed in with pity, so they'll never say anything about what really goes on over there.
I've heard many cancer patients choose not to fight a second time because they don't have it in them to go through chemo again. That's how I feel about court.
Bring in the therapist. Have
Bring in the therapist. Have him/her testify. Also, you can ask for a court appointed law guardian for the children. Make sure the children are interviewed on your time. They can usually tell when the kids are being programmed. Even if the kids say you guys are awful, the judge doesn't have to take it in account.
You can't prove how crazy she is, but you can prove how sane you are and how the well the kids are adjusting to the present situation. I don't think you'll get anywhere other than keeping things the way they are now. Most judges won't touch a current order without good cause. Make her prove that you are unfit. The absence of a consult with you or the children's therapist in the forensic evaluation is enough to cast doubt on its validity.
If you countersue, you are definitely unlikely to get attorney fees.
The therapist will certainly
The therapist will certainly speak on our behalf, it's getting her at a time that she's available for court that's the trick. The children were assigned a law guardian relatively early on in all this. She's heard the crazy garbage that's been instilled in them by mom, but I think it's not considered so severe that they need to be punished by losing her necessarily in her opinion. For example, it's mostly things along the lines of "I wish mom and dad could get along....my dad takes mom to court A LOT and mom can't afford it" etc. Obviously she's saying inappropriate things to them, but harmful enough to change custody I'm not sure.
I called the lawyer's office, and spoke with our lawyer's associate. Basically saying "What's our plan of action here? I don't see the judge changing anything based on what's going on, and it's only a matter of time before we have to go back because the boys won't be able to tolerate her in their teen years." He emailed both of us saying that he thinks we're in good shape, and we should meet so we know what the plan of action is going to be. So we'll see.
This situation is exactly why
This situation is exactly why one should never lose track of the fact that a lawyer's only job is to deliver what YOU want the lawyer to deliver. Your attorney should have been fired when they suggested the one more chance for BM bullshit. Your attorney works for you. Never forget that.
If your attorney can't or won't deliver exactly what you tell them to deliver then find one that is worth a shit and will deliver what you are paying them to make happen.
At this point I would dust off all of the evidence of BM's toxic shit and get ready to destroy her in court by any means necessary. If your attorney so much as looks askance at the directive to fry BM's ass in court, find an attorney that is worth a shit.
IMHO of course.
Good luck.
DH loves this response We
DH loves this response
We definitely agree. We're not about to fire our attorney, he's a major pitbull in the area, and he has so much information in this case, we really don't want to start all over with someone else. It's mostly that BM doesn't have the mental well-being to be afraid of him yet. My XH is extremely nice to me because he NEVER wants to see this attorney again. "He gets you what you need" should be his tagline...and he knows how to get it. I was on maternity leave with no income when XH left me high and dry with all the bills including a $2500 mortgage for 6 months. I was awarded $613 a week, and the judge apologized it couldn't be more, but he couldn't legally take any more from XH, but it will forever be garnished by the county. (And has since gone way down because the kids are older and no longer require full time daycare, but you see my point...the attorney is really good).
Honestly, I think the "giving her a second chance" bit was to make DH look like the merciful one, and look at her, taking him straight to trial for no big deal. Our lawyer seems ready to go for the jugular now and be done with this. What other choice has she really left us?
He said we're in really good shape for trial. Still, thanks for the response, it helped to get our engines revving for a fight and stop worrying defensively so much. Now's not the time for that.
Good news! We just spoke with
Good news! We just spoke with the lawyer. First off, he admits our state has stupid laws when it comes to "who" pays legal fees, and it's taken at an income only decision process, actions do not at all apply, so he said no on getting her to pay...
however....
He will have her in for a deposition, and will basically nail her ass to the wall. That's awesome. It'll be pretty easy for him to stress her out, catch her in a bunch of lies, and then use it all against her in court. He is not concerned at all, and we're thinking it's quite possible he's going to get custody back for DH.
He also brought up finances with us, and said he'll take a capped payment upfront. That way, he'll put the time into our case it deserves, without having to worry about not wanting to overcharge us, not responding when we need responses because he doesn't want to charge us for it etc. As much as we hate the lawyers not getting back to us, they do keep their hourly rate in mind when communicating....and the price is very fair, literally half what we estimated the whole thing would cost. So here's hoping all goes well.
We've started our new timeline, documenting every communication good, bad or indifferent and he'll use what he can and he'll use every last bit we had from the past, because our previous motion is still pending. Basically, we're in good shape. He's done this MANY times before. I feel very comfortable with him, and hopefully things will be good.
Thank you. It is nice to hear
Thank you. It is nice to hear that. Sometimes I do have to back away from the situation because it does get very hostile, but I married DH, with his children, in turn making them mine. It doesn't mean I'm trying to replace their mother, but I love them and care about their well-being. Ultimately, I wish BM could go get the psychiatric help I truly believe she requires in order to be the mom she desperately wants to be. The problem is mental illness is so taboo and shameful to her, she would never admit anything is wrong with her, even though it's pretty clear there is definitely something off inside her head. Like I always say, I'm not going to make all the right decisions, I don't always know the best course, but I do know no matter what, I have the best intentions in mind, and that seems to see me through all the bad stuff.
Not too shabby. We have this
Not too shabby. We have this kids on vacation for the week, and despite a little alienation at the beginning because we're taking her babies away for a whole week (despite the fact that she gets them the same exact amount of time just before we go to court), the kids snapped right out of it and are having a great time.
We're just in a process of gathering information, and have trial set for the end of next month. Our lawyer is still not worried at all, so we're just relaxing for now. I'm not really thrilled about her having sole access to them for two weeks just before trial begins, because last year when that happened she got the psych evaluation done, and that was totally messed up. They better not put the boys on the stand, and certainly not after she's had 2 weeks to indoctrinate them with her BPD waif garbage. It seriously is affecting them. They want to stay with her solely out of pity. If they could choose they like their life at our house better. No drama, get along pretty well with everyone, more comfortable. But they'll never admit it in a legal setting because they feel sorry for her that she can't afford anything nice for them. It's so annoying. She could get up off her lazy ass and get a job. Any time DH mentions that (with the lazy ass part of course) the boys come straight to her defense "Oh, she does do that!" Yeah, right.
I'm sure it'll be tense, and I'll be full of OMG posts in 7 weeks