Any ideas on whether to quote the same rental charge as elsewhere to SS who wants to move in
What do other STalkers think of this. As I posted recently, my SS22 has for the second time flunked his final year of study and been granted a further year to retake. At the same time he has run up thousands of debt and generally messed up his life, also been diagnosed with depression -- whilst constantly partying. He had been a little estranged from DH since January because it was at that point I discovered that he, on a visit to us, was doing private browsing on our computer and that this involved a fake email identity for his subscription to porn sites. I then called a meeting with him and his dad and said he was banned from use of our computers or our wifi, to protect our sons. DH backed me up. SS then told a pack of lies denying this and that and made a scene and left, after which he ignored DH until recently, and indeed ignored all his family with whom he was quarrelling for separate reasons, as his flunking and debts all came to a head. Once the s--t hit the fan he was of course back in touch with DH and requested to live with us until July whereupon he intends to travel to his mom who lives in another country, and take up work there for a couple months then once again needs housing back here until he returns to his studies in January.
So the issue for DH is how to support the guy emotionally and get him to face up to responsibilities and start a working life (DH is realistic and admits that SS could well flunk again next summer so should start work now and be holding down a job throughout). The issue for me is how DH can give this support without SS getting his foot back in our door. The minute that SS started to behave badly on return to our home this month, I took evasive action and arranged for him to stay at a friend's apartment whilst she is away to end April. DH was desperate to keep him under his wing (sad and foolish) and said he would move to live in the apartment too, away from me and our sons, just to gee him along in case the depression took over and sabotaged him further. Now whilst this obviously is pretty neglectful of us, I played along with it because quite frankly, this way I don't have to be involved in SS at all and don't have to watch DH making an idiot of himself, which I would feel obliged to challenge if it were under my nose. DH has now sat down with SS to work out a budget for repayment of debts and sent him out hunting for work. SS from today has the work to rely on, but I don't know yet what it will earn him.
The issue for me and DH now is this. I have found an extremely cheap rental with a local family who interestingly enough happen to have children the same age as our bios. They have a spare bedroom that they can let out to SS from May on, but want to vet him to see if he will fit in. He can then stay there til July and try to manage his own life whilst remaining an occasional visitor here. That would work for me and normally would also for DH. But DH is in a terrible state of worry about SS and fears that without being taken under DH's wing and living with him from day to day, he will fail in his endeavours. DH claims that SS having been neglected in his childhood by BM, now needs to be shown superprotection and have daddy by him all the time. We on STalk of course know that it's the belated over-protectiveness of DH (who was complicit in BM neglect anyway of course) that will cause SS to continue to fail and I've tried to sell it to him that being in a normal family where he is a house guest will actually heal SS's woes and behavioural issues far more quickly than will dad continuing to trample the rest of us here at home.
So what I'd like your thoughts on is this. DH is stupidly not taking charge of the plan but is going to put the choice to SS tomorrow -- whether to be interviewed by this family or not. I've told DH that if SS refuses then there is no option for return but that he and SS will have to rent another place from May to July which will be far more expensive than either where they now are (which ends in May) or what the family would charge SS for a single room. That I'm not prepared to do the necessary constant challenging/supporting of SS on his behaviour which would ruin our family life here. But if SS refuses after my warning, I'm thinking of saying to DH that if he returns then he should pay us the same rental as he would have paid the family -- equalising the expense from his point of view. I am certain that the true motive of SS in wanting to stay with daddy is to save money on rental and no wish to be intimate with him. This way I hope to flush him out and cause him to choose to live elsewhere -- because from past experience I know that he actually does not like being here at all and, if cost were equal, would choose to be somewhere else.
What do you folks think of this idea? Would there be a better way of weighting the financial pressure/inducement on SS that would also sound attractive to a father? (bear in mind that DH will find it completely unacceptable to charge SS rent, but might go along with my plan if he thought it was good for him).
Living with a family that
Living with a family that won't put up with any bull crap could be an excellent way of handling it. If that fails, and if he get caught accessing porn over there I'm sure he'll be tossed, then I think you should just accept the fact that Daddy isn't going to let him go that easily. This is despite the face its contributing to his failings.
Let Daddy rent a little apartment and give it his best shot. I'm hoping that sooner rather than later he'll come to the conclusion that it won't work and return home without the kid. You'll make sure its without the kid.
My BS is 22. He will be
My BS is 22. He will be moving home for some time while he works on his graduate degree. He will be paying rent. Not as much as he would have but enough to cover any additional costs we will have and pay for a dinner out once a month.
Hi Poodle, It sounds as if
Hi Poodle,
It sounds as if your SS really needs external structure. Something that is better provided by strangers, not family members. If he is depressed, can he avail himself of some services through the mental health system? I am not sure what country you are in, but there must be something out there... a program at the local mental health clinic, a support group ( even better, a group home with supervision - but he is not a candidate for that as he is too high-functioning, ironically.) Is there an apprenticeship he could sign up for? I am not sure that going back to his studies will be a success without some changes in his support/accountability system.
I think your DH's state of worry needs to be translated into teaching his son to "fish" with a fishing rod, not providing him plenty of already caught fish. Taking him under daddy's wing in the sense of providing moral support - yes, but not in the sense of serving him everything on a silver platter. SS is on a downward track and it is heart-breaking for the parent to watch that, but loving behaviors may have nothing to do with over-protection and everything to do with empowering.
I have re-read your post and see you were going to solve your conundrum by now. So how did it go? Dit your SS make his choice?
Thanks so much for all the
Thanks so much for all the helpful ideas. This story currently is coming out well so I'll post it as a cheering example. That warning of mine to DH worked a treat -- coupled with the fact that SS got a regular job today which pays well -- well enough easily to cover the rental to the other family home as well as all his outgoings and a bit more for a debt repayment plan. Now the fact that his dad has set him up to apply for this and be successful, coupled with the fact that dad had got a reasonably argued but firm ultimatum from me, coupled with the fact that SS had heard of the offer and clearly realised that he would feel "freer" in the other home than with us, seemed to change the dynamics for DH and SS. DH has emailed saying that SS wants to meet with the family and be vetted.
It just goes to show that some strategising can pay off. We may even get DH back home earlier than expected, and I am betting he actually feels relieved of a burden now that SS appears willing to stand on own two feet.
The argument will now likely turn to whether we should assist SS by contributing part of the family's rental charge so he can pay his debts off earlier. Whilst I don't intend to give in to that easily, it's something I might consider but only on the basis that I get to write up and scrutinise SS' budget. To the more disengaged amongst us, that might sound like too much responsibility for me, but it gives me the whip hand on calling him out if he rats on the deal, and furthermore it is likely to be such an abhorrent idea to SS that I have any involvement at all in his personal finances, that he will prefer to pay his own way.
But the best aspect of all is that we now set a precedent for him living elsewhere "for his own good" (you're so right PS, it was madness of DH to reject that idea of another family home setting a better structure for him). I love the way we told SS that he was going to live all on his own with daddy for these two weeks just so daddy could really shower him with all the love and attention he needed. DH knew that was not my reason but he colluded with me for a quiet life -- which turns the tables on the usual scenario!
I'll post again if it goes sour but thought I would share my Easter good cheer with other posters.
That's very good news! Thank
That's very good news! Thank you for sharing, Poodle. Your scenario sounds promising.
Now you can enjoy your Easter in peace. Cheers!
It's interesting how living
It's interesting how living apart temporarily can expose the stages of the negotiations -- and the B---S---. DH came by today as SS was at work and he was not, told me that he had been pleasantly suprised how readily SS had taken to the local family's offer, then revealed that of course he had offered SS the package as that we pay ss rental until an unknown date in June and July (SS being typically vague about when he would be lighting out of there to go visit his mom). So, I explained to him, it was obvious why SS would grab that with both hands as it meant getting away from me or the atmosphere here, which he hates, and getting housed for free, which was always his game.
For my part I told DH that I might not be opposed in principle to helping SS financially but that was dependent on us getting together as a 3 and me scrutinising his budget. What SS is claiming to DH is that he wants to get back on own two feet and working on paying off his debts and would like our help via free housing to achieve that. Bull of course. But I claimed back to DH that I might not rule that out once I had seen what his liabilities and assets were (some funds are yet to come via BM signing some tax forms, needless to say she has avoided doing that for some months in order to lumber him onto us as part of her sick financial games), and some he has been owed for some private work for months but not yet bothered chasing the payment). But that even if I was prepared to provide anything if his budget revealed it was needed, then that would be by way of paying off debt not paying for current outgoings. And, I would want us to pay toward debt on old quantifiable dead debt which could not be run up further, not bank account credit overdraft, which he would just run up again.
DH saw the good reasoning there and said he would go back to SS with the deal. If SS now kicks up a petulant little fuss like I expect, he will be on the back foot if he comes back here as I will just charge him the same with the same deal -- on the evidence that that is the sum a local family was asking of a working lodger. I think I have him cornered and the beauty of this is that DH is on board and recognised that there was force in the argument that it might be good parental sense to help him some with old debt which dated from the period of unmedicated depression, whereas simply giving him free rental for an unspecified period of time did not help him to control his ongoing budget and possibly even encouraged him to continue living beyond his means.
Sheesh, it's not rocket science! Still at least we now have flushed out right into the open that all SS had ever wanted from us this time around was free housing (which I had pointed out to DH all along and which he had denied to himself until now). And I am setting a precedent that SS pays his own housing in principle. This will stand us in good stead for decades.
SS and DH are calling the local family to seal the deal tomorrow (can you believe, DH had thought I was going to be in on that meeting!!!!! disabused him of that illusion) and, if they take him on, DH will be returning home a wiser and happier parent.