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What does this adult SD want? I think i found the answer....

Pilgrim Soul's picture

Generic asked this question yesterday when i posted an update on my blog on DH - OSD email exchange.

Here is a direct quote, "On a more serious note, WHAT IS IT THIS ADULT DAUGHTER WANTS? Does she really think she can make you go away if she's mean enough to him or you? What is her specific objective in all this? To have an unhappy father? She does want those she loves to be happy? It doesn't sound like he's ignored her needs for his own selfish desires".

I was a bit stumped... i thought she wants validation. But what a crazy way to get it...
so today i started digging ( thank you, Generic, for giving me this idea!)

What i found blew my mind. No, really. It was on the website shrink4men.com. I have found interesting stuff there before... But this one lays out step by dysfunctional step what high-conflict personalities do in order to gain.... drumroll, please!!!! ... ABSOLUTE CONTROL!
Which is very hard to see in the beginning. But looking back - i could recognize EVERY STEP!

The example here is of a romantic couple, but it nails all the knee-jerk, and then manipulative steps my SD ( and her BM) go through every single time in relation to DH. I had goose bumps reading it. Their playbook has been made public.

Here goes...

PS The presentation is better on the website, which also has a pretty convincing looking diagram.

http://www.shrink4men.com/2010/11/15/high-conflict-phases-of-abuse-blame...

------------------------------------------------------------------------

Phase I

Perceived Insult. It is easy to think of this as the “trigger.” Problem is, this is no ordinary trigger. It is a hair-trigger. Anything that portrays her as less than perfect or holds her accountable will trigger her for sure. You need to evaluate what triggers your partner. If you were the one that actually triggered the response, it will be easier to identify. However, sometimes it wasn’t your finger on the trigger. More on that later.

Disproportionate Rage. This phase could easily be labeled “shock and awe.” You will be in awe because in your mind the perceived insult will not warrant the level of rage you receive. If your infraction is deemed serious enough, she is most likely to use nuclear weapons first. Don’t be surprised if you are subjected to flying objects, yelling, divorce threats, and false 911 calls. There will definitely be memories that last a lifetime!

After the mushroom cloud clears, things will de-escalate slowly. This may take hours, days or even weeks sometimes. The significant difference between the knee jerk phases and the remaining ones is that the events and conversations will become very calculated and manipulated on her part. Illogical arguments and distorted views will definitely wreak havoc on your mental faculties.

Phase II

Defensive / Retaliation. This is basically a scaled down, less violent version of the previous phase. Cluster bombing comes to mind. She has done nothing wrong! You are wrong! It’s just that simple. Anything you say is wrong. Even an apology would be wrong. Your recollections of the events are inaccurate. Nobody has ever treated her as poorly as you do.

She claims that all of her friends, doctors, therapists, parents and the mailman agree with her. They all know you are an abusive jerk. She claims she will continue to do whatever she wants. You will pay for your infraction. She is the judge, jury and executioner all in one. You are not able to get a word in edgewise at this point. All you can do is hunker down and let the bombs fall.

Phase III

Playing Nice. Are you willing to surrender? Here is your chance. She will approach you in an eerily calm manner and pretend like nothing ever happened. She will then offer some type of phony apology as well as a dose of blame. The old, “I’m sorry, but. . . it’s really your fault.” Never mind that she has repeated the same actions numerous times. That doesn’t matter. You are suppose to take her at her word that she is genuine this time.

All you have to do is admit that her actions were your fault and you need to change your ways. She will even let you speak at this point. Nothing you say will be correct but at least she will pretend to listen. Offers for make-up sex might even be made to facilitate your compliance with the program.

Secondary Arguments. If you decide to withhold raising the white flag, you will find your battlefronts broadening in scope as you engage in “topic warfare.” The topics of conflict will stray far from the original infraction. Every problem you have encountered since the beginning of your relationship will come up. Any sensitive information you have shared with her will be misconstrued against you. The attacks become very personal in nature.

You don’t make enough money. You’re a lousy lover. Every relationship she has ever had is better than this one. It goes on and on until she gets a very pivotal reaction I call the “nugget.” The nugget is any bad or politically incorrect reaction on your part. Heaven forbid if you defend yourself or call her a name. Unknowingly, you have just been read your Miranda rights. Anything you say can and will be used against you. As soon as she gets the nugget, this theater of operation is over.

Phase IV

Pseudo-Victim Creation. The nugget is the catalyst for the creation of the pseudo-victim. You are now outgunned and dealing with a psychological special operations unit. Her skills at being a professional victim are so well honed that you will even start to doubt yourself. Things get very dramatic.

She will cry, sulk and need to be consoled by friends. The guilt trips she lays on you are very intense. It has always been her, that has fought for the relationship while you have never even cared! What have you ever done for her? How can you be such a jerk? You use her as a beast of burden!

Role Reversal. At this point she has successfully taken the spotlight off of herself and put it on you. Things have come full circle. Her original reactions are completely “off topic.” You now find yourself defending yourself about one of the other issues brought up in the previous phase. You will find yourself shell-shocked and not even knowing what you are really arguing about at this point.

She will continue to repeat the cycles from “playing nice” to the “role reversal” until she is satisfied that she has either won the war or some other “hot topic” comes along and takes precedence.

Phase V

The Cloud. This is basically a cold war phase. If you accepted her phony apology, you may have been able bypass the Secondary Arguments, Pseudo-Victim Creation and Role Reversal and leap frog directly to this phase. There are no direct conflicts in the Cloud, but uncertainties are abound. The underlying hostilities are still there. There is never any real resolution or compromise to the previous situation. There is only pseudo-forgiveness. Even though the prior conflict is not talked about, it will certainly come up again in some other secondary argument phase.

Establishing a demilitarized zone and avoiding each other may provide some degree of normalcy and peace to your life. Like being in a real cloud, the visibility is poor. You have no clue what the next conflict will be about or when it will occur. If you are a veteran, you will learn to be on a mental red alert at all times.

Special Considerations

Covert Route. This happens when you weren’t the one who pulled her trigger. It is essentially a shortcut to the secondary argument phase. An example would be when you experience “topic warfare” minutes after you get home from work. An unknowing partner may think she is just in a bad mood, but in actuality, somebody insulted her during the day and she is taking it out on you to make herself feel better. A clue to confirm this is that she is mad at everybody and not just yourself.

Submissive Route. As previously noted, if you are willing to accept her phony apologies and “drink the Kool-Aid”, you can take a shortcut to the Cloud phase. Just remember, there is no amnesty granted. You still caused her to act poorly in the beginning. You are basically on parole. If you violate your parole, the conflict will immediately pick up where it left off.

Don’t Be a P.O.W.

In a normal relationship, one would be able to eliminate this cycle of conflict through understanding and compromise. However, with high-conflict individuals, this cycle is deeply ingrained within their DNA. As described above, there is no compromise. There is merely a pattern of distortion and manipulation designed to blame you for any lack of responsibility or accountability on their part. Absolute control of the partner is the goal. This is very difficult to identify and understand in the beginning.

Accordingly, it is easy to falsely blame one’s self or to simply justify their bad behaviors. Only through careful observation can one begin to perceive the true intent of your partner’s manipulative actions. In my case, the visualization of a flowchart added a tangible realization as to why the conflicts progressed as they did.

These are, of course, my own personal observations and interpretations. Your personal flow chart could vary from mine. Nevertheless, I suggest you do your own case study and study the trends. Your epiphany might just give you a different perspective. You may not like your circumstances any better, but you may be better able to cope with them until other options are available.

Thanks again to my client for this very insightful diagram and its explanation.

Shrink4Men Coaching and Consulting Services:

Dr Tara J. Palmatier provides confidential, fee-for-service, consultation/coaching services to help both men and women work through their relationship issues via telephone and/or Skype chat. Her practice combines practical advice, support, reality testing and goal-oriented outcomes. Please visit the Shrink4Men Services page for professional inquiries.

Pilgrim Soul's picture

I'm glad you found it useful, punkin! I did too - and sooooo recognizable!

High-conflict people is code for personality-disordered, who come in all shapes and forms, whose behaviors can be just maddening.

It is amazing to me how DH used to justify the disproportionate rage of OSD that could be triggered by the smallest thing, and would tell me, "You don't even realize what hurt you have caused! It's like you threw a nuclear bomb!" Well, the response was certainly out of proportion and quite nuclear but the provocation was miniscule, something like, "I do not think this graduate program is all that great". Such comment will lead the SD to rage for months, accusing me of not supporting her choices, and thus rejecting her. Huh? I felt like i was behind the looking glass. When did *i* sign up to validate ALL of ther choices? What if they have a negative impact on me? On him? I can see how people would begin to doubt themselves when exposed to this madness continuously.

Pilgrim Soul's picture

I am glad for you, punkin! Of course you would lose your temper! Who wouldn't??? I do not know how you tolerated them for as long as you did. At least mine never lived with me.

The similarities between yours and mine are astounding. My SIL sent a scathing letter to the OSD recently telling her she is a bully and explaining why she sees it that way. The answer - from a GRADUATE student in psychology!!! - in her mid-20s - was, "So now do you agree that i am justified in cutting you off? You called me a bully, full of shit, self-centered, a hot mess and selfish? I am now convinced you are NOT my friend."

My takeaway: so it is NOT wrong to BE a bully, only to TELL the bully she *is* a bully? Then she can immediately cut you off, and thus PROVE she is a real bad bully. But to her, she is --- you guessed it--- a pseudo-victim.

Un-freaking-real.

hismineandours's picture

Sounds like my Inlaws. They once exploded ver the fact that I was napping and didn't answer the phone when they called. They went on and on to my dh about how "disrespected" they were. For YEARS, they would bring up this bomb - always said slyly to him as in, "well, we'd call but we know HMO would not answer the phone" .. It was almost laughable,I was like wtf is wrong with these people? Then it was that I made them feel unwelcome one time when they come over. I asked dh, " well, how" - um, he didn't know. He never knew. They never told him- but also used this one for years- still currently in use the last time he spoke to them like a year ago.

My other fave has been some of their more recent behaviors. They willverbally attack me through Facebook messages directly to me, or ones to dh in which they instruct him to tell me these mean, hateful things they've said. When I fire back ( which I didn't do for the first 12 years I knew dh) they turn it around and talk about how they've never been so hurt in their lives because of the things I've said to them. Again, wtf? They are the ultimate victims and I just apparently walk around being so horrible to them?

They also go through these stages with dh. My fil will call and leave messages- one time it is blaming and hateful- the next time it is hey can't we all be friends and sing cumbaya? The always bring up "family" to him. If he does not do exactly what they want well then he is a traitor to the "family"- he is not being good "family".

My sil stole dh's identity and opened credit cards in his name and stole a bunch of stuff. She was ultimately arrested.
You know whose fault that was? Mine. I didn't make her steal, wasn't even in my name, I didn't report it to the police- but they have explicitly stated to my dh that it is my fault. Wow.

I don't think they want to control me so much- but they do want total control of dh. Since they don't have it they blame me. I've somehow brainwashed him and got him under my spell. It took my dh many years to see this for himself, but thank god he finally did.

Pilgrim Soul's picture

They sound horrible! how do you deal with them? You poor thing... How do they pull it off in tandem? Always on the same page? Double dysfunction. The only solution seems to go low to no contact. So your DH only speaks to them once a year?

Interesting how they found their "nugget" - you not answering the phone - which is SO minor, a normal person will have forgotten all about it a month later, and are milking it for all that it's ( not) worth. They must hate to have your influence on DH and want him to be their puppet. So sick... I think BM will do the same to SS if he ever marries. She will HATE any woman who ever goes near him. She will want to control him forever.

Generic's picture

Ok, I will have to confess that a lot of the reason I come here is for help with my inlaws. About a year or two ago I basically disengaged. I had built up quite a resentment for having to basically be the son they wanted from my DH. He never had to deal with his own mother. EVER. Worse yet, I was never acknowledged or even thanked for this tiresome never ending thankless position. I didn't sign up for it so I quit it. After a couple weeks go by with my go to line, "I don't know. You'll have to speak to your mom", I finally stopped answering the phone. But they don't blame DH. I'm the bitch who won't answer the phone. They had gotten so spoiled, that they were offended when I took it back. Now all I hear/see are snarky little side jabs of, "good luck trying to get anyone on the phone". Well, here's a shocker: call his work. Call his cell phone. Call his mistresses' cellphone. I don't care. I am done being DH's PR group and the veil has been lifted. Rather than see clearly, they just cover their eyes and blame me.

Pilgrim Soul's picture

Sounds like your dad drinks their Kool-Aid, SA. It is almost a MUST if you want to survive next to a master manipulator. It is easier, and there must be palpable gains to your dad - calm life, contented wife. Having an opinion of one's own will be treated like an affront, i suppose. I am sure your SM' mother, her son, his friends, pastor AND THE MAILMAN - gotta love the mailman! - all agree with her ( when she says she is a saint, and you are just a difficult bitch).

My SIL tells me that she ( a mental health pro!!!) always knew that if she wanted to see her brother's ( my DH's) family, she had to go along with the BM's view of things. Dissent was not allowed. BM wanted total control - of everyone's ACTIONS and THOUGHTS!!! You were not allowed to think differently. There is an old German song that goes, Die Gedanken sind frei - the thoughts are free - oh no! Absolute control means they are not.

I feel so much better now that i see that what the SD wants is total control. Like in a totalitarian country. My SIL got off easy... all that happened when she expressed dissent ( said the SD might be slightly NOT perfect) was that she got immediately unfriended on Facebook. Devalued and discarded. That will teach her to express her thoughts differing from the party line.

Had she been in North Korea, she would have been shot...

Pilgrim Soul's picture

It sounds as if your SM has a teeny tiny ego that she needs to prop up ALL THE TIME with new appliances. She is an arriviste - and now that she has "arrived" she cannot stop bragging about her collection of stuff. She is Cinderella who has moved into the palace and is living the high life very impressed with herself. Wants everyone to be just as impressed. She must feel like shit about herself though. So her thirst for validation is an unquenchenable thirst.

Will it help if you keep a slightly amused attitude? Help you, i mean, not her.. "Yes, SM, this is a stove for the ages! I do not think the Witch in Hansel and Gretel had a better one!"

Just blog about it while you visit if you go visit, and let off the steam. Try to find the funny in it. She does not seem to have a sense of humor - but you do! You could use it to cope.

As for my SD, you are right, of course, and both DH and SIL have come to the conclusion, with her nothing is better than something right now. "Something" is just venom. She can go have a meltdown in her mommy's arms, and that's what she seems to be doing. The problem is, "BM will reinforce the delusional thinking - you are the greatest thing since sliced bread, honey, they are all SO MEAN to you!" she will baby her and enable her, so that when she comes back, she will be even more entitled and vicious.

sandye21's picture

This describes my SD amd my mother to a tee. The only exception is that with narcissists, there is never an aploogy - not even a hint of it. They NEVER do wrong so why should they apologize? I recently heard someone say, "Doing battle with a narcissist is like wrestling with a pig - you both get dirty but the pig enjoys it."

Pilgrim Soul's picture

LOL... funny about the pig!!

My mother also has traits of this, not as deep as the SD though.

But it is tough to be surrounded by those psychological weapons experts on both sides,
isn't it, Sandye?

Generic's picture

And can I say how tickled I was to see this post? I'm not the most popular around these parts, so it feels good to know something is thought provoking.

Pilgrim Soul's picture

Oh Generic, you made me have this epiphany that is going to change my whole approach to our
soap opera. Thank you, thank you, thank you! Asking the right question makes such a difference!