Part 2

Forums:

This is long...so sorry. But you guys were so supportive of my first thread....well..

Saturday morning and my cell phone rang, except I didn't know it because it was upstairs still on the charger. My daughter had called. When I saw it, I called back and left her a message saying that I missed her call, but maybe we could talk later. She texted very late ...and anyways she finally called me back on Sunday.

Me: "What's up?"
DD: "I needed to talk you yesterday and you weren't there." (Baby girl coming out...must squash)
Me: "Well, gee. We have 5 other phones in this house between the house phone, the 3 kids cell phones and my wife's phone. If it was that important, you could have called any of those numbers and got a hold of me. What's wrong?"
DD: "My car wouldn't start."
Me: "Is it running now?"
DD: "Yes"
Me: "Good job. You fixed it and you didn't even need my help. Yay!"
DD: "But you weren't there. I can't count on you."
Me: "So you were testing me? Honey, I'm 42 years old. I've passed all the tests I need to. I don't do tests anymore, especially with children. Talk to you at counselling tomorrow." *click*

So, we had our counselling session yesterday. As part of the homework for the week, we presented daughter's idea of treating my wife as a co-worker.

The counselor looked at me and said, "What do you say about that?"

And I went on a mini rant about how that's sort of fine, but we need to be clear about what that looks like and what the basis of that arrangement is. I said that everybody involved here will be treated with respect, consideration, politeness, and friendliness. That's my line in the concrete. I expect those four things in any and all interactions with my wife and my daughter, and if someone breaks those rules, then the conversation is over. The counselor repeated those four things like 50 times throughout the session, just to reinforce that baseline.

We discussed a few items of clarification on those things and the counselor asked her if that sounded like a fair expectation.

She agreed.

My daughter then brought up her ridiculous caveat "ANNND....I will never be left alone with (wife) on the phone or in person because she's not safe." I turned red. The counselor (God bless her) looked at me and nodded as if to say, "go ahead". I did not yell, I was firm in my tone....

"Hey daughter, you don't have to worry about being left alone with my wife. You've taken care of that already. Your year long assault of rudeness, passive aggressiveness, dismissiveness, exclusion, and outright contempt for my wife, my family and myself has pretty much ensured that she would never want to spend anytime with you. Besides, I wouldn't allow that, not to protect you, but because I don't trust you to be left alone with her and actually be polite. So yeah, you got your wish, but not for the reason you think, but because you simply refuse to be mature. I do NOT need to chaperone my wife. She is not the one acting like a child here. Children get chaperoned."

Silence.
More silence.
Even more silence.

The counselor (who, I have to say, was kinda egging me on with her smiling face), then says, "(Daughter), If somebody was rude and aggressive with your boyfriend and called him names, what would you say to that person?"
"I'd tell them to Fuck Off."
"Is that what you want to happen here? You want (ManUp) to tell you to FO?"

Silence

"Well, maybe he should."

Okay, session over. I'm not falling for that passive aggressive BS anymore.

We did the counselling for my Daughter. She needed to hear a perspective outside of our little circle. Whether she takes it to heart is entirely up to her. Where we go from here is entirely up to her.

I don't expect to hear from her until well after Christmas. Even then, it better be with an apology and a promise to do better.

That's exactly it. She is

That's exactly it. She is looking to be "my little girl". Frankly, that's actually kind of normal in this situation. I've told her before that we had our "honeymoon" period and it's time to grow up and move on. We'll be here if and when she's ready to do that.

Look, I'll always love her. She'll always be very special to me. But, we can't turn back the clock, we can only move forward with who we are today.

If the broken car comes up

If the broken car comes up again explain to her that part of a parents job is to make sure their kids are ready to deal with the world on their own because someday the parents won't be there. Even if you had gotten her call, explain to her, you probably would not have done anything except tell her to call a tow truck anyway.

Surprisingly ...I just got

Surprisingly ...I just got off the phone with my daughter.

She asked what the action plan is. I said that step one was she had to apologize to my wife for being so malicious. And explain what my wife did that made her so angry. I told her she doesn't have to apologize for her feelings, because those are valid, but her actions have been malicious and intentionally hurtful. She wanted to do that right away. I told her no, that she needs to do it when she realizes the hurt she's caused not just because I told her to.

And, she can't shut my wife out. Again, I dont expect them to be besties, but there has to be at least some polite communication.

As well, if my daughter can explain what things my wife did to cause her so much grief, I'm sure my wife would listen, apologize and ensure she doesn't do those things again. Because my wife has class.

My daughter hangs onto old hurts far too easily and needs to learn coping mechanisms to work through those things. She can't just throw up walls and expect things to get better.

And of course I told her I love her and we're ready to move forward when she is.

Because she was testing me.

Because she was testing me. Of course she should be calling her parents. Or her boyfriend.

She goes home next week.

I think we need to have you

I think we need to have you call a few of our DHs and have a man to man talk

^^^This. Please.

ManUp, can I rent you? Can

ManUp, can I rent you? Can you sit down with my hubby and explain how a wife should be treated ALL THE TIME when the evil ones are around?

I think you did the right

I think you did the right thing by everyone, especially your daughter. She will respect you for that.

Awesome. I'm so glad you are

Awesome. I'm so glad you are dealing with this like an adult--so many men should take a leaf out of your book. Like I said before, what you are doing here is tantamount to heroism. You are protecting all the people you care about, including your daughter by setting her on the right path. Wheter you succeed or not, you did the right thing, and for that you should be proud.

sigh My biggest regret is

*sigh*

My biggest regret is how blind I was to the damage done to my marriage. I wish I had woken up a year ago. My wife deserved better.

Oh, don't get me wrong. I

Oh, don't get me wrong. I focused on our marriage first as part of my waking up. We did half a dozen marriage counselling sessions before we moved on to including my daughter.

Good for you!!! Worded

Good for you!!! Worded perfectly!

ManUp, You said something

ManUp,

You said something that really stuck with me. You said your daughter has put up walls and hangs on to old hurts. That brings to mind the letter you said your wife wrote to your daughter when you two weren't talking.

I can see why your daughter thought that was a big boundary violation. I would have too and many of us here would have. But the way she has handled it is not right. People make mistakes. Erecting steel walls isn't going to make things better. Working through things slowly with the other person for you to rebuild/build some trust in them is much better. You and your wife sound like really nice people. I'm sure your wife would have been understanding if your daughter wanted to "take things slowly" for your daughter to build/re-build some trust in her. That gives everyone time to make clear what their boundaries are so they don't get violated again, and gives everyone time to work out issues they have with each other (politely, of course).

I hope that the therapist will cover all of this with your daughter, including how she has handled the letter your wife wrote to her.

Manup, I want to rent you

Manup, I want to rent you too! Just wondering if you have ever talked to her adoptive parents? You might think you are overstepping boundaries by doing so but I'll bet there were problems before she ever reconnected with you.

I am so impressed. You stood

I am so impressed. You stood your ground. You expressed your expectations with grace and you got results. These things won't heal overnight... but it seems as though you are well on your way to a result, maybe not the reuslt you are hoping for, but because you are drawing your line in the concrete, as you said, she is starting to realize that you require respect.

Something struck me when I read your comment about her putting up walls and holding on to hurt for way too long. When I read that, I saw "puts up walls and hangs up hurt", as though the hurt is a decoration on a wall that she built. It was such a clear visual, I can actually picture this young lady with a snyde smirk on her face, hammer in hand, physically HANGING hurts on the wall, as though they are decorations in her home. Even giving them a little tap to make sure they are straight after they are hung. Standing back and looking at them, almost with a sense of pride. Like, these are her tools for manipulation.

I think a lot of people do this. They built walls, and they soon become a permanant fixture in their lives. They aren't temporary walls that are easily removed. They are built with substantial materials and are not going to be moved quickly. They have set up camp and are decorated with past hurts. They have to be TORN down.

Until she is ready to start taking those hurts down off those walls, and those walls are ready to be TORN DOWN, no one will get anywhere. And when you tear down a wall.. you have to have protective gear on. Goggles... gloves.... otherwise you could end up getting hurt even worse.

It seems as though you are taking your protective measures with this counselor. Kuddos to you. You are doing great.

My goodness...what an amazing

My goodness...what an amazing visual representation of what she does.

I am just glad you are able

I am just glad you are able to handle this in a way that is honoring and respecting your marriage.

My little sister is adopted. My mom has had her since birth. My cousin who was 17 at the time, is her biological mom. Her biological parents ended up getting pregnant a year later, keeping that baby and getting married. They divorced 8 years later. My little sister knows all of this. She is now 19 years old and began wokring on building a relationship with her biological dad when she turned 18. It is an awkward situation since my cousin hates him, and completely PAS's their daughter that they kept. My sister does not refer to my cousin as her mom. She DOES refer to her biodad as her dad. I can't imagine my sister doing these things to her biodad. He is remarried, she has a "biostepmom" I guess is what we will call it. She is respectful of her, she calls her "momma firstname". She calls her biodad "dad". She never had a dad to speak of growing up, since my mom was single most of the time.

My little sister makes me proud. She has a completely functional and respectful relationship with her biological dad. It can happen.

Well, I helped create and

Well, I helped create and nurture that act, so I better be able to see it too.

So, a little postscript. My

So, a little postscript.

My wife called me at work today to discuss Christmas gifts for a couple of friends. Halfway through, she just stopped talking in mid sentence. She says, "I want to send something to (daughter) too. I just feel so sad that she won't even let me send a card. I just want to show her...." She was crying now and my wife NEVER cries.

I just told her that right now, daughter doesn't deserve a present and wouldn't appreciate it anyways. We have 3 kids and a gaggle of friends to show our appreciation for. But her capacity to care for my daughter after all that's been done shook me up.

Again, daughter is missing out just because she's chosen to be rude and cruel. I've said it before. She could have everything she wants if she would just stop putting up walls and punishment. I'm not chasing anymore.

Yep, and then we get over

Yep, and then we get over it...for good!

It is, isn't it? I have

It is, isn't it? I have never gone as overboard or overlooked as much for anyone else - not friends, not my own relatives, etc.

I wonder if it's because we love our DH/SO's so much we just want to have a "complete" life with them, including their kids. Thus, we try so hard to tie it all up with a nice bow that we just wind up strangling ourselves.

^^^ It is, isn't it? I have

^^^ It is, isn't it? I have never gone as overboard or overlooked as much for anyone else - not friends, not my own relatives, etc.

Wow, she is so my step

Wow, she is so my step daughter.
I commend you for seeing through the games.
I have to give my hubby credit. It took 10 years, but he essentially told his daughter the same things. He firmly and kindly told her that she had to get over this imaginary daddy daughter fantasy she was living. That she should focus on her child and her husband and that her husband should be number one in her life. He encouraged her to use her many God given talents to make the world a better place and to focus on other peoples needs and hurts and not so much on her own needs. He told her he would always love her.

Man Up, I see a lot of myself

Man Up, I see a lot of myself in your wife.

DH's sisters is not speaking to us. She has been mad at us for several months, over something she did (long story). I am not mad, I forgave her a long time ago, but she is upset over some of the events that happened that led up to her unkind words. She is young (24) and selfish, and entitled... she is a brat. BUT... she is my sister(in law) and I love her. I have been with her through so much. She was 16 when DH and I started dating, she has really been through some strange things in the past 8 years, and I am hurt that she would just throw our relationship away like this.

I bought her a Christmas gift. She doesn't want to see us on Christmas, but I was going to send it with my father in law. DH told me not to. He said to give it to his other sister along with the items we bought her. I have to respect that. As much as I just want this young lady to drop the past and move on... she too has set up camp in the "I'm mad and everyone is going to know it" area of the campsite.

Oh well.. I have to respect my husbands wishes. I feel for your wife. I really do.

I enjoyed this so much. I

I enjoyed this so much.

I enjoyed this so much! Thankyou all. ManUp, that is wonderful that you handle this, as you have. I have a 31 year old SD that has never had any consequences for her behavior.(Only knowing this by hearing it from family.) Your Wife sounds like a lovely person,too.I wish you the best.

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