New member...need direction
Sorry if posts like this are old hat, but just don't know where to go. I'll give you a little background on myself. I am in early 40's, as is my girlfriend (hopefully soon to be my fiancee....just waiting for the ring and then to pop the question). She has 3 children, a 19 year old daughter who is out of the home. She has at home a 13 year old son and an 11 year old daughter. She and her ex live in the same small town of about 1800 people. They have somewhat of an odd (at least it is to me) custody arrangement, where the kids live with dad for one week, mom the next, keeps alternating. Being such a small town, its minimal interruption to their lives (same friends, same distance to school of just a few blocks, etc.).
The boy is a good kid. He has a gentle heart and tries a lot to help calm his younger sister down. Her youngest daughter is a handful. She has 'tantrums' that literally can last up to 2 days. by that I mean screaming, hitting, saying very mean things and it will go on constantly (with maybe a 10 minute let up here and there, but for the rest of the time, constant screaming, yelling, defiance). My girlfriend has been taking the youngest to therapist for about a year now, and after having talked things over with a few different people, is setting an appointment up now to go to a psychiatrist as we have been told that it is likely a chemical imbalance. We are crossing our fingers that its something like this that can hopefully, with time and patience, at least be calmed down a bit. It is at the point that my girlfriend falls to sleep at night when the kids are at our place in tears about half the time.
Her ex and his family are horrible. Now, I know that a lot of eyes are rolling right now. However, I've never seen anything like this. They mess with the kids' heads. They tell the kids that their mother is an "evil" person, that she is "going to go to hell" and that she is a "whore". They tell the kids that they should never listen to their mother or to me, and that their "dad is the boss, not your mom". they constantly talk about legal action against my girlfriend to get full custody (something they would likely lose, they are just too ignorant to know this). They put the kids second to their dislike of my girlfriend and openly and often speak badly of my girlfriend and me.
Her ex was mentally and verbally abusive (not physically). He never held a full time job (other than seasonal) for the 17 years they were married. If the weather was nice, he'd go fishing. If the weather was bad, he'd use it as an excuse not to work (he and a friend were in construction). If he would get laid off, he wouldn't look for work, even part-time to help out with bills. This left my gf to be the main money maker. When she would get home, it would still be up to her to cook and clean, and he would constantly complain because nothing was good enough. Its taken me two years to convince her that she is "good enough" for anybody. She is a wonderful woman with a huge heart.
We refuse to speak badly of their father and grandparents in front of the children. But since his family and he openly do this, the kids have lost all sense of respect for myself and their mother. I refuse to lay a hand on those kids, but he is always telling them that if I dare lay a hand on them or do anything at all they don't like, they are to tell him and he will go to the courts (something which is ridiculous, as I wouldn't dream of laying a hand on a child). He says all of this stuff, yet isn't man enough to even talk to me about how to bring up the kids, or to work together on any issues they have. He is a coward, basically. I'm not a violent man in any way, but this guy has me almost at my breaking point. He and his family are the worst people I've ever heard of.
Last week, the youngest, during one of her fits, called her father and put it on speaker so that her mother and I would hear (she had locked us out of the house and was sitting inside by an open window). She asked her dad to come get her, the exchange was eye opening, as we heard the way he manipulates the kids. I've never been so enraged. I just sat there with a smile, but my blood was boiling.
I don't know what to do, or where to turn. My girlfriend is on the verge of letting her ex have custody, as the weeks we have with her kids are 7 days of fighting, screaming and disrespect. We don't want to do this, but he and his family have gotten so into their heads that the daughter now just screams all week that she wants to live with her dad.
Help.
We will be moving (she and I)
We will be moving (she and I) within the next 1-2 years. Not a minimal move either, will be several states away. And I don't know if the courts would allow for the daughter to be with father full-time, and the son to still split. Our original talk was that when it was time to move, it would be up to the kids (if indeed the courts would alow it) to make their decision as to which parent to move with. Due to the father/son relationship, my guess is that the boy would stay with his father. My girlfriend thinks the son would actually move with us, but the way the ex and his family is, I'm certain that EVEN IF the boy wanted to move with us, that the guilt placee on him by his father's family would force him to stay behind.
I have told girlfriend that I won't marry her until I've moved and she with me, because I don't want to be stuck here for the next 10 years, as this is the time in my life for me to move upwards professionally and financially. She is convinced that when the time comes, she will move with me, but my fear is that the pull of motherhood will keep her here, closer to her children. I'd love for the kids to move with us (as away from their father, I know that I could make progress), but I don't see that happening realistically. As long as we are here, and he is constantly a physical presence in their lives, there is no opportunity for real discipline and life lessons.
I'm at my wit's end.
The custody arrangement is
The custody arrangement is not strange at all and is actually common in several states with progressive custody laws. If you and your fiance do plan to move, it will be hard to get the court's permission to disrupt the status quo and uproot the children several states away. Can you tell me what state you are in?
How long has she been divorced? It is obvious that tensions are high between her and her ex. You really don't need to get involved with anything regarding her ex. If he threatens you and her, you need to call the police.
She will have to reel the kids in while at her house. It seems they think she is a doormat and walk all over her. Her giving the kids to her ex is definitely not the answer and more of a self fulfilling prophecy projected onto her by her ex. Her life will not be easier if she quits, it will create a whole new level of problems for her.
Edit: I see you are in Iowa.
Thank you for your input.
Thank you for your input. Mrs. Taylor, a question if I may.... is PAS something that is actually 'in the books' so to speak? And is there any kind of legal action that can be taken, or are we just screwed and at the whim of her ex?
The most frustrating thing is that I could physically destroy him. I know that it sounds like a bunch of chest-thumping machismo, but its so hard to watch a coward talk like a tough guy to his kids, and avoid even making eye contact with me. I almost pray for the chance that he does something stupid, and in a place and manner that will give me 'open range' to physically confront him. He's the type that plays with guns and he and his family talk about making people 'disappear' on their farmland. Just such cowardly people.
And yes, about her son. The son and I have gotten along just fine, but his dad is beginning to make him feel bad for doing things with me, and openly forbidding his boy to do things with me. So, now, the boy is beginning to alienate from me. His mom wants me to keep trying, but everytime I do, I have to do it by his father's rules and timelines....I won't be controlled by him as they are. Its a helpless feeling.
I feel like a bad person, but I just want away from it all.....but I love her deeply, and want to spend the rest of my life with her. Ugghhhhhh. I'd like to sit down and talk with the son, but I don't want to mess with his head and make him feel like he has to take sides. So all I feel I can do is just become a ghost and let the kids become more and more disrespectful and alienated until we move away. And then I'll have to deal with the guilt she will harbor. Its horrible. I don't understand how people can do this to other people, and then how they can manipulate and damage their own children in the process.
Wow, the ex sounds like a
Wow, the ex sounds like a real winner. Makes you wonder what the hell your girl was thinking for 17 years right? I look at my DH and ask myself all the time WTF was going thru his mind when he mixed his DNA with that maggot. Anyway, I digress... Your situation sounds horrific and I know that there is no win or lose in it. If the kids stay with their dad, your girlfriend will be heartbroken and crushed. If they leave with you, the kids will make your life a living hell. I'm sorry but I don't have any ideas. Good luck with whatever happens. Maybe you'll get lucky and you can beat the assholes ass and leave him in the cornfields. }:)
have her check her decree.
have her check her decree. many times there is a clause in there that states the parents cannot talk badly about one another to the children. you can take him to court for contempt if he continues but you have to have hard proof. tape phone conversations, etc. of course, this would probably only land him with a slap on the wrist. i think giving up on the kids would be the wrong thing to do in your gf's situation and of course she has the pull of motherhood but i think maybe shorter visits for a temporary time could help. the only thing i can say is that if you and your gf never badmouth their father and his family, hopefully the kids will grow into adults who will see things for what they are and gain respect for you two over the father. this is a tough situation and i am sorry you and your gf are having to deal with it. no real answers to fix anything, but we can all offer support here. hang in there!
LOL....believe me, I pray for
LOL....believe me, I pray for that day Ufr!
Girlfriend tried to leave him a few times, but he would 'guilt' her back into staying (classic case of beaten wife syndrome [or whatever its called]). Finally on the third instance she followed through. And even then, he refused to leave the house as the divorce dragged on for two years until the court finally forced him to leave. He kept dragging the divorce out for God knows what reason....just his way of 'controlling' the situation. It was a marriage in their late teens/early 20's, had only been dating a few months and she knew within a year that she'd made a mistake but through a misguided (in my humble opinion) devotion to the institution of marriage, she thought things would get better.
My favorite example is that upon leaving the church on their wedding day, he opened the door for her and as she stepped into the car, he stated "At least I don't have to do this anymore"....and he never again so much as opened a door for her.
Wow, my jaw just dropped. I
Wow, my jaw just dropped. I would have opened the door and ran out!!! Poor thing. Safety, the bond a mother has with her children is difficult to describe. Leaving her kids behind will eat away at her and in turn it will destroy your relationship. Taking them with you will also have its challenges. Unless she can get full control of the situation with the ex, it will only get harder before it gets better. IF it ever gets better. It sounds like the boy is a good seed and maybe can be helped to understand that what his dad is doing is wrong. That shouldn't be your burden to bear and maybe a therapist or counselor can help. The girl sounds like she needs an exorcism. I'd wash my hands of that one.
I'd let the little girl go to
I'd let the little girl go to the Father. She has some issues or maybe she is just like her Father and his Family and is just a nasty manipulative person. Did Mom say she had any issues in her younger years? I'd imagine if she had bonafide issues they would have manifested years ago. We like to think Mean means Mental but sometimes that's simply someone's personality and choice and nothing at all is wrong with their brains. Go through with the appointment but if nothing is found, probably okay to drop the idea that anything more than she's learned and/or decided to be an awful child. Add that to the upcoming teen hormones (which hasn't hit yet as she's only 11) and your home will be a War Zone, literally.
If she hates being there and is destructive and locking people out of the home and really traumatizing the youngest child, let her go. And don't let her manipulate and come back after she gets to Daddy Dearest & they get sick of her too. In most States when a child is 13, they get to choose where they live if there's a custody battle. Short of any harm going on in the place of their choice, the Courts typically okay it so I'd assume that in 2 years, this girl is going to bolt anyway.
As for the move, this is a tough one and honestly it may mean an end to your relationship. It's a catch 22. If you take them, you will have a custody battle from Dad & possibly a hellcat daughter. Yet if the kids go to Dad's, they are REALLY going to lay it into the kids heads that "Your mom ran off and abandoned you to be with a man". That may be the thing that keeps her there. If it is, you have a choice to make.
Thank you, and yes, I realize
Thank you, and yes, I realize that when push comes to shove, mom may not have it in her to move away. we've talked about it extensively, and I'm pretty darned sure that she will. She's had enough of this little town and the area as a whole. We both want to make money and see some of the world while we are still young enough to do so. I'm on the verge (I think) of really making some breakthroughs in my profession that will certainly have us moving around, possibly (even likely) around the globe.
However, I'm not so wet behind the ears that I don't realize that a mother's love is something that I don't even fathom. hell, I'd a thrown the kids out a long time ago if they treated me the way her kids treat her. So, knowing that, I plan on asking her to marry me in the coming months, but there will be nothing done regarding a marriage until she has made the move and I'm confident that she will be able to stick with it.
The one that makes me sick to my stomach is the boy. he's a really good kid, but he (like I suppose a boy should) idolizes his father and is easily manipulated. it breaks my heart to know that while he will likely WANT to move with his mom, that he'll stay with dad because of (1) his sister, (2) fear of change and the unknown and (3) the incredible amount of guilt thrust upon him by his dad and dad's family.
I find it hard to base
I find it hard to base anything on one side. It's highly unlikely the other house doesn't have a take on this. Sorry.