I would NOT take my SS to jail, for one, that is not a "positive" invironment to take a child. Send letters and pics all you want. And why is she writing letters to your husband, I would "return to sender" them. Doesn't seem like she wants to see the children THAT bad if she's not writing. I would probably allow a couple phone calls a month at least from her, collect....

Alienating the children isn't right, even though as a step parent, it seems the BM is always doing that.

Tough call, good luck!

What a tough decision to make (under normal circumastance not that i consider prison normal.)

I would not even think of taking a child to a prison especially when the mother has said its in her plans to return to her bad ways. Not only do i think you are right about the trauma factor by just going there I dont think its healthy for the children to see their mother that way.

I ultimately think that choice needs to be your husbands. They are his children. Of course your opinion can be taken into consideration. If he asks for it.

Those poor girls.

Good luck

In my opinion, I agree with what you and DH are doing.

They are 5. At this time in their lives, things can make an immense impression on them. I think it would be very hard for them to see their mom this way. Not only is the environment frightening.... but what about BM? Would she be even allowed a hug or physical contact? Would she be crying? Would she be handcuffed? This is all way too much for 5 year olds to see, again - in my own opinion.

I do think that you could allow them to send her letters or drawings. And then, if she responds to DH about the kids, read that portion of her letter to them.

But honestly, this woman sounds like a complete train wreck. Not only do I fear for the girls if they are with HER and she's that unstable. I fear for the girls because of the men she's bringing around them. God forbid one of them abuse one of the girls.

And as far as her giving up her rights if she has to be supervised.. who cares? That's her problem. She has proven that she cannot be trusted with children and is still saying so. So why does she even deserve the thought of unsupervised visits. Those aren't about HER anyway. They should be about the GIRLS. So if she can't get over her own dumb self to just see her children, then that's her problem. Like you said, the girls will probably flourish better without that toxic presence in their lives.

I'm sorry you have to deal with this. That's a lot on your plate. But I am happy the girls have you in their life!

Best of luck

I would not take them, why put another bad memory in their minds.
This women does not want to improve her life and she has alot problems. Childhood should be filled with great loving memories.

I think when she gets her act together, then she can see the girls, until then the children are off limits. Sorry but the girls come first.

Okay, my daughter's father was in prison most of her life, until recently. I allowed his mom to take her there for visits, one, because she was only a baby, and I was younger then and not really thinking about what would happen when she got old enough to know it was different...If I could go back and do it again, I don't think I would have let her go, because, even though he is out and having regular visits with her (he lives with his mom who is a good woman), she knows "daddy was in jail" and that's too much stress on a child...just my opinion...

Don't think for one second this kid isn't going to find out about Dad's jail time unless you're willing to move to the North Pole.

Of course kids should see Daddy and he needs to see them. The prison system is not particularly scare for young children as they're ignorant. Then they're used to it so its still not scary.

Do the right thing. If Dad wants to see them they he should.

*********************

There's an exception to everything I say.

First, think of this... Is this a minimal prison or maximum prison? Not all prisons you see look like TV where there's a plane of glass between you or inmates are handcuffed... many of them have open visiting rooms with rules attached where you can hug and touch momentarily. It's not always scary.

These are BM's children regardless of how we feel about BM and her choices of life- they are HER children- not ours. What gives us the right to decide whether or not she should see HER children - what because she made poor choices in her life? As much as we all know and agree it's wrong... think if someone would not allow you to visit your elderly mother/father in a nursing home. This is your parent that a doctor (stranger basically) has decided a choice for you.

No, my philosophy on this is USE THAT TO YOUR ADVANTAGE!!!! It's a life hard hitting opportunity to teach your SK's the greatest lesson... there's your mom. Do you want to end up like this? etc. Girls this is what happens when you make poor decisions, etc. (In kid friendly terms- short and sweet- in means that allow THEM to come to those conclusions.)

The kids CAN and WILL make a distinguish between right and wrong, because you obviously see a change in them whenever they make contact with her. So, they DO know. How they interrupt it is different than we as adults do, naturally, and as long as YOU are teaching them the right from wrong, they will pick up the differences. It's all in the matter of technique.

At five years old, children personalities, behavior, and connective thinking patterns are already set. If you ask them if they want to go, and they say yes... take them. Don't say much at all, just remain quiet. Don't force the issues, topics, etc. But start an open dialogue with them. Let them know that it's okay to be confused, you're confused why an adult would make such decisions in their life, too, etc. Give them information that will allow them to relate to YOU... not mom. They will get it. They will continue, regardless of what BM does, to love her. That's a bond that only SHE can break. So, use it to your advantage.

OldTimer
"Knowledge is often mistaken for intelligence. This is like mistaking a cup of milk for a cow."

IMO, it doesn't sound like she is taking an interest in the kids, just your husband. That being said I say don't bother taking the kids to see her. Kids have no place going to a prison, regardless of how minimal or maximum it may be. These girls are at an age where they are going to be going to school and if you take them to see BM they might go back to other kids saying "I saw my mommy in jail!" Then what? I would suggest if BM starts showing any kind of interest in them then allow the girls to make her pictures, let BM know how they are doing in school or any activities they are involved with, allow collect calls 1 or 2 times a month, let the girls sends BM cards for the holidays. But no visits. Then they get to make stuff for "mommy" but they don't have to "see" the environment that BM's in. And that is thinking in terms of what is best for them. Granted BM is their "mommy" and all, but BM messed up not them.

MY sd is 5 and her mother is in prison 3 hours away although there is a court order that she does have no contact with Sd i wouldn't consider taking her to go see her in that kind of setting. You are right for wanting to wait to see if Bm is going to stay clean and out of trouble. It is a very hard thing to explain to children why they cant see BM in Illinois where we live they have a program where the women prisoners can pick a book and read it to the children on a cd and the children can listen to it we did get one in the mail from BM and let SD listen to the cd and read have the book she sent Birthday card and a i miss you card and we read them to her it was very hard for us to decide to give those things to her but we noticed that since her BM visitation were taken away and Bm went to prison she was having some issues in daycare and at home and we gave it a try to see if she would open up in how she felt about her BM it work she has been a little better since. I would not feel bad for not taking them protecting them is number one and there BM should have to prove that she wants a relationship with them and can stay clean not just caring because she is somewhere where she has no choice but to think about them wait and see what happens when Bm gets out and then let her go threw the steps of supervised visits drug test etc. good luck one day the SD's will understand that you were protecting them because you love them

Take a 5 year old to prison?

No freaking way... !!! I would consider that cruel to the child to expose them to that. It would be better to lie and tell them their father has gone away on a trip.

I don’t know if this will help but, my BD10 has a father that has been in Prison since she was about 3. I do my part and have never held back about her BF, Clarification she asks and i tell her good things we never speak bad about her BF we just tell her that he made some bad choices and he has to do his time for that, but I don’t think I would ever take her to see him in prison or jail. My BD10 is aware now of where he is, but doesn’t know what he has done, Jail/Prison time is a time for the offender to reflect on the events that have brought them there, they made bad choices therefore they are going to pay for that, a child doesn’t need to be involved in something like that.

I have always told my BD10 that when she is old enough to understand what her BF has done then she can visit him. So maybe when BD10 is around 16 or so she can visit him, weather that be in Prison or in the outside world at least then she will be old enough to understand what is going on and maybe understand that this is something he choose to do and it is in no way her fault. I think the only thing taking a child who is not old enough to understand, to a prison to see their incarcerated parent is only going to make them feel bad for them and that should be left on their shoulders. I think that with enough understanding and love they can overcome it, and hopefully when the locked up parent is out of Prison / Jail they will start to make some good choices and get their lives back together so that their children can be a part of it, before then I say let them do their time as they deserve.

Years ago I took my Neice who was about 6 at the time to see my brother (her father) in prison. Other times my Neice went with my mother when she went to see my brother. The worst part was the long drive. Now he is back in prison again and my Neice is now 12. She has grown up with the fact that her father has spent most of his adult life in prison.

In my opinion it is a safe environment. It is the only time my Neice could see her father without him being high or getting high being his top priortiy. She was treated like an absolute princess by her father whenever she visited. Now, when he got out, it was a very different story as she was not his priority, but when he was sober and in prison was the only time she could really "see" her father if you see what I mean? I personally think that it was good for my neice to see him there.

My experience with visiting him in prison was very positive. The officers were nice, the inmates were on their best behavior and very clean looking their Sunday best so to speak. They were all seeing their loved ones so everyone was in a very pleasant mood. It was better than Christmas to the inmates. We all sat in one room and you could even go outside onto a patio and sit if you wanted. You could hug and hold hands, have snacks and drinks and talk. Every prison has different rules so if you do decide to go make sure that you know all of the rules ahead of time and make sure that you get there early because if you are late, they will not let you go inside.

I would'nt, for one the drive is too long for their age, you have no idea what this place will be like, there is the chance they could see some aggresive behavior/language, with the state that this woman is in, I would keep the little ones away from her, if shes behaving strangely as you say then that is another reason to protect the girls.

If children at the age of five do not see their mom for a year they will grow apart from her. That may be a good thing for them to "disengage" to use the buzzword of the site, in this case because she is a potential danger to them. I know my daughter missed her father terribly at that age and was concerned about not seeing him because he lived in another city far away. I don't know how close the relationship was between these kids and their mom before she went into jail. It's a very tough call and if they continue to want to see their mom, eventually you might have to reconsider whether it's worth trying one visit to satisfy their curiosity.

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My kids bio dad is in prison for my attempted murder on February 14, 2009. I have fought, and will continue to fight to keep my kids out of a PRISON to visit their poor excuse for a father. so far my lawyer slam dunks him and his efforts every time. He's been in jail for 3 years now and is serving a 7-20 year sentence. Oh, and his attempt on my life happened in FRONT of my 2 children. Yes they witnessed me bleeding to death and begging him for my life. It really was sheer dumb luck that I managed to get away from him, run out the door, get to the hospital before bleeding to death. 11 stab wounds with a butcher knife, in front of my kids....and he wants to see them. Thank god most judges have BRAINS, and my lawyer is worth her weight in gold. In your case too, don't let those kids into a prison!!!

I wouldn't. I can't see any good that could come from it.