Eh, I think it's a balancing act.

Depending on how much charm a person has, they may be successful as an adult, even though they are an obnoxious little shit. Don't we all know people like that?

But over-controlling a child will ruin them as much as being ridiculously permissive - if the kids have no idea how to think for themselves, they're going to flounder when they're tossed out on their own.

Like everything in life, it's a compromise.

I don't agree completely that children are 100% the product of their upbringing. Maybe she got therapy as a child/young adult/currently? Maybe she had a mentor-type person in her life, a teacher, professor, clergyman, neighbor, etc. whom might have shown her a different way of behavior and/or etiquette? Maybe she just had a self-realization that she didn't want to be that person anymore? You never know exactly what goes on in a persons life unless you are by their side 24/7. I suspect there was some type of impact that caused a turning point somewhere along the line.

I agree with Stepaside and unwilling...it all depends on the circumstances and the true personality of the person involved. I have a friend who was very spoiled but not disrespectful when we were growing up...she has a great husband and she is a great mom but she has a lot of money and doesn't work outside the home...but God love her..if something bad happened and the money and freedom was gone...I bet it would be a different story.

I agree with the above posters, however, I do know that the Probation Dept in my County (as well as the jail) are bursting at the seams with juvis who "have no structure" in their lives. IOW can't be good!

I believe children turn out how they turn out regardless/in spite of how their parents try to make them turn out. People have strong personalities from birth that can't be changed.

Take a good look at the "adult stepchildren issues" forum. Enough said.

Different kids have different personalities and temperaments. You can be a "perfect parent" and still have your child turn out to be a troubled adult. And there are examples of spoiled or neglected kids who turn out OK.

There is a point where a parent can do the best they know how, then it is up to the grown child to take the responsibility for their own behavior.

I used to have neighbors who had triplets. Three little identical girls. Each one had a totally different personality - that was the only way I could tell them apart - I would have to watch them a while and see how they acted. They were parented the same way, so you knew that their temperaments were what they were born with.

It goes to show you that there is a certain part of us that we are born with in regards to temperament. They are now saying that people can be born with personalities that are more "depressed" and more "sensitive" than others, etc... They aren't BAD people, but they definitely react differently to stress and other life challenges than the general population.

I don't think there is any magic formula that will "guarantee" good results. There are just too many variables involved in raising kids. As a parent you can only do the BEST you can - then the rest of the kids life is up to them.

I grew up in a strict family, and believe whole-heartedly that in today's society it's important to have rules and guidelines. My SO is a guilty father who tries making up for the divorce through new toys all the time and McDonald's. No chores or responsibilities. After we had dated for some time and I was fuming all the time from his spoiled son's ways... We sat down to talk about it and I told him there was no way our relationship would work if he expected me to participate in catering to his son just because he had been divorced in the past. That is NO reason, in my opinion, to cater to your child. I told him there needed to be stability, structure, discipline, and at the same time a LOT MORE attention being given to his son. Attention instead of new toys to stack up in his room. Responsibilities so he can be rewarded and start learning the value of money. So far it's been slowly changing, his son is responding OK. Sigh. It's tough.

I agree that different kids respond to the same parenting in different ways. That's why some families have children on drugs, and also children who are highly successful. That said, the question itself forgets a very important component...the OTHER house in which the kid lives. The guilty dad is only half of the parenting...and not even where the kids spend most of their time.